Topic: PL: Eve 2 vs 0 Liverpool Bran 27’ Lewin 58’

[JRed]

We’ve challenged for the title until 4 games from the end of the season (legitimately - we’re at >+1 xg/90 over the season) with one of the worst injury crisis I can remember
Most of our squad are pre or early peak age

Its an incredible inheritance for the new manager

Don’t we have an injury crisis every single season now? Time to cut our losses on some players I’m afraid, plus some players have completely failed in the title run in. Abu Dhabi and Arsenal are going to strengthen massively, if we don’t then we won’t be challenging. Simple.

[kezzy]

Gutless performance last night.  We still need 4 points to guarantee top four although Spurs aren’t winning all of their games.  We where better when we where relying on the kids and I’d rather see most of them back in the team and seeing out the season after watching that shite last night

[Mister Flip Flop]

Everton colleague of mine was frothing at the mouth with delight and giving it large. She’s a nasty, scheming, weirdly political, closet Tory, rank woman in general but I’ve always been polite with her, and said stuff like “I think Everton will stay up, you’re a big club and the new stadium looks great, etc” despite the constant digs and passive aggression.

Her eyes were popping out and the laughing was delirious. I just congratulated her and said that they were the better team. And carried on with my business 😂 Supporting Everton really does ruin lives. I witness the proof in the flesh on a regular basis.

Is she younger than 29 years old, because if she is she's never seen her team win anything. Zero, nadda, zip, nowt, nothing 

[crewlove]

Don’t we have an injury crisis every single season now? Time to cut our losses on some players I’m afraid, plus some players have completely failed in the title run in. Abu Dhabi and Arsenal are going to strengthen massively, if we don’t then we won’t be challenging. Simple.

I think we have injury problems every other season now. Whether it's players and/or staff, we definitely have it.

And it happens even though we've moved away from constant pressing strategy that was present in Klopp's first years. What worries me, we are somehow going back to it next season.

[Draex]

What was clearly visible last night, and this probably lies at the heart of our recent disintegration, is that up until the point our strikers had a flurry of missed sitters - we were playing well and pinning them in ruthlessly. As soon as they failed to convert those chances, or at least fucking one of them, our heads dropped and tempo fizzled out. We never really recovered. It's strange to look back at this season, where for the longest time it seemed like we had the most varied and potent attack out of all contenders - and say we lost it all because of attack. But we did. Football is about goals. We lost goals. Inability to convert clear chances not only dented, but literally corroded our confidence and dulled our sharpness. There are obvious defensive 'asleep at the wheel' issues - but considering attack is more closely linked to our identity and approach to football - for me this is what ruined the season.

In retrospect, we probably should have used Danns more. Boy was riding high and he could have at least been our finisher sub in absence of Jota. But we didn't. Klopp was loyal - one last time. And one last time his loyalty to players has come with a heavy price. It's who Jurgen is, we get that. I do hope they all feel like shit this morning. I don't think they will. They'll giggle their way into breakfast and training, just another working day I suppose. Maybe make some cry-emoji social media posts and move on with their pampered lives. But I hope some at least feel the pang of guilt. Because when the moment came around, they weren't present. They didn't see it as the moment to be there, to be counted. They let it slip.

I maintain once we dropped the kids for the seniors the season fell apart, they brought energy and a sheer lack of fear our seniors appear frozen by.

Quansah showed again, came on, smashed through a player cleanly.. that was on what the 70th minute, the first real derby tackle from a Liverpool player. Like how do you not approach this game expecting fire and hostility and knowing you’re going to have to match it. That’s the bare minimum.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Our losing isn't down to the ref but the amount of fouls he gave them whilst ignoring the fouls on us was ridiculous. In particular the foul on Mac on the edge of our box.

That the theme of refs, every time we go away the ref is swayed by the crowd but at home the refs want to prove they aren't swayed by Anfield.

The refs know exactly what they are doing. Besides the clear and obvious ones they get wrong it's an accumulation of small niggly stuff that does my head in. The first half yesterday was ridiculous.

[Nick110581]

I maintain once we dropped the kids for the seniors the season fell apart, they brought energy and a sheer lack of fear our seniors appear frozen by.

Quansah showed again, came on, smashed through a player cleanly.. that was on what the 70th minute, the first real derby tackle from a Liverpool player. Like how do you not approach this game expecting fire and hostility and knowing you’re going to have to match it. That’s the bare minimum.

We committed eight fouls in first thirty minutes to their one.

This bollocks about lack of fight annoys me especially when the ref gave them every thing.

[Lad]

Game was lost when Gakpo and Jota were ruled out. Diaz and Núñez are two of the most brain-dead forwards I've ever seen play for Liverpool and I include Milan Baros, Ryan Babel and Mario Balotelli in that. Also appreciate Trent throwing in one of his 'too cool to defend' efforts. Cheers for that, mate.

Diaz...'brain dead' ffs were you watching the same game as me. The guy ran his socks off was inches from scoring and was the only one of our team who could walk off and say 'I gave it everything'...people on here jeez.

[Sharado]

We committed eight fouls in first thirty minutes to their one.

This bollocks about lack of fight annoys me especially when the ref gave them every thing.

Everton won twice as many duels as us. We absolutely lacked fight. From the players to the bench.

[Draex]

We committed eight fouls in first thirty minutes to their one.

This bollocks about lack of fight annoys me especially when the ref gave them every thing.

Looks a big number doesn’t it..

First one was Konate pushing Calvin thingie in the back in the air, it’s a foul, it’s naive and it set the tone.

Truth be told half of them were fouls, the other half were “bought” by Everton, yet we didn’t learn we kept the little pushes in the back. Another example of a total lack of game management, Klopp even said it in the build up, they would stretch the rules, yet the players got sucked into it and eventually let it ruin their games.

[UntouchableLuis]

Everton were due a win against us (with fans there) - not to have won since 2010 is quite honestly a disgraceful statistic for them. They actually tried to play football rather than turning it into a rugby match. To be fair, they have got their defensive set up spot on recently (Chelsea game excluded).

It's a shame that Klopp's last derby memory is this one but overall he's had some of the best ever derby memories (Origi and Mane last minute winners, thumping wins etc).

[Nick110581]

Looks a big number doesn’t it..

First one was Konate pushing Calvin thingie in the back in the air, it’s a foul, it’s naive and it set the tone.

Truth be told half of them were fouls, the other half were “bought” by Everton, yet we didn’t learn we kept the little pushes in the back. Another example of a total lack of game management, Klopp even said it in the build up, they would stretch the rules, yet the players got sucked into it and eventually let it ruin their games.

So you are asking for us to make ‘derby challenges’ then moaning about our game management because we haven’t been smart.

That’s all on the ref if they are going down at slightest contact and we aren’t getting same decisions. How could we play our game ?

[Rush 82]

Ta mate  we’ve been blessed with a lot of joy down the years, so you’ve got to keep it civil* and in perspective with such folk.

And genuinely, fair fucks to Everton. They deserved their win, despite the poor refereeing. So yeh … we move on

I blame the OP / pre-match writer for expressing sympathy for them before the game.
Zero doubt that it seeped into the mentality of the players :-)


* good on you, it's the best way (well, besides outright avoidance) to deal with that kind of person.

[Sharado]

So you are asking for us to make ‘derby challenges’ then moaning about our game management because we haven’t been smart.

That’s all on the ref if they are going down at slightest contact and we aren’t getting same decisions. How could we play our game ?

I'll say it again, Everton won TWICE as many duels as us. This is a recurring theme at present as I believe atalantas numbers were similar. Whether it's fatigue or something else, we've stopped competing.

[Draex]

So you are asking for us to make ‘derby challenges’ then moaning about our game management because we haven’t been smart.

That’s all on the ref if they are going down at slightest contact and we aren’t getting same decisions. How could we play our game ?

First tackle make it count, don’t shit out, don’t do a soft push in the back. We didn’t do that, imagine Gerrard in a derby, where was our passion?

Second half was a prime example, we spent the last 10mins of the first half building some pressure, we had to take that into the second half, but we started slowly, then Konate gives the ball away cheaply, we concede a foul trying to recover it. Basic basic errors through our game always shift momentum.

[Nick110581]

I'll say it again, Everton won TWICE as many duels as us. This is a recurring theme at present as I believe atalantas numbers were similar. Whether it's fatigue or something else, we've stopped competing.

But when we won duels, we were penalised.

They continually bundled players to the ground and no FK.

[Nick110581]

First tackle make it count, don’t shit out, don’t do a soft push in the back. We didn’t do that, imagine Gerrard in a derby, where was our passion?

Second half was a prime example, we spent the last 10mins of the first half building some pressure, we had to take that into the second half, but we started slowly, then Konate gives the ball away cheaply, we concede a foul trying to recover it. Basic basic errors through our game always shift momentum.

We didn’t shit out of any tackles though.

[Sharado]

But when we won duels, we were penalised.

They continually bundled players to the ground and no FK.

I'm sorry but that just isn't a reflection of the full game at all. Quansahs tackle in the second half where he left a bit on (I think) docoure was the first time I saw someone putting something in that looked like they fucking meant it all game

[Nick110581]

I'm sorry but that just isn't a reflection of the full game at all. Quansahs tackle in the second half where he left a bit on (I think) docoure was the first time I saw someone putting something in that looked like they fucking meant it all game

So if we tried that first half then it’s a clear foul as we couldn’t go near them without them falling over.

Hopper was ignoring Klopp on sideline who was clearly questioning why the officiating was so inconsistent.

It’s also just cliched bullshit about ‘wanting it’. We should have been leading at HT if our strikers didn’t snatch at chances.

[spider-neil]

You can say Everton were winning their duels but when they clattered our players nothing was given and when we challenged their players a foul was given almost every time. The ref gave Everton the licence to attack our goal with set piece after set piece.

[decosabute]

What was clearly visible last night, and this probably lies at the heart of our recent disintegration, is that up until the point our strikers had a flurry of missed sitters - we were playing well and pinning them in ruthlessly. As soon as they failed to convert those chances, or at least fucking one of them, our heads dropped and tempo fizzled out. We never really recovered. It's strange to look back at this season, where for the longest time it seemed like we had the most varied and potent attack out of all contenders - and say we lost it all because of attack. But we did. Football is about goals. We lost goals. Inability to convert clear chances not only dented, but literally corroded our confidence and dulled our sharpness. There are obvious defensive 'asleep at the wheel' issues - but considering attack is more closely linked to our identity and approach to football - for me this is what ruined the season.

In retrospect, we probably should have used Danns more. Boy was riding high and he could have at least been our finisher sub in absence of Jota. But we didn't. Klopp was loyal - one last time. And one last time his loyalty to players has come with a heavy price. It's who Jurgen is, we get that. I do hope they all feel like shit this morning. I don't think they will. They'll giggle their way into breakfast and training, just another working day I suppose. Maybe make some cry-emoji social media posts and move on with their pampered lives. But I hope some at least feel the pang of guilt. Because when the moment came around, they weren't present. They didn't see it as the moment to be there, to be counted. They let it slip.

Absolutely spot on.

It's fair and correct for people to say that several players through the lineup (Ibou, Szobo, Jones, Endo) have also had their levels tail off badly. But no matter how much of a cliche it is, you can't ever understate the importance of goals changing games and changing the mood.

The same thing happened in the second leg vs Atalanta - Salah missed what was for him a really scorable chance and the mood and hope plummeted from there. Same thing last night. Once Darwin and Diaz missed those chances, we mentally gave in. If Salah's goes in vs Atalanta, and we get to the break 2-0 up, then I think we get another one or two in the second half. If Darwin scores his biggest chance last night, I think we go on to win in the second half.

Collectively the players should've done better recently, but to me, the goalscorers in the team are the most culpable. They have absolutely killed us the past 6 weeks. Darwin in my opinion will never be a guy we could count on - he is what he is. Salah's disintegration is pretty incredible to me though. I still can't think of a worse example in elite sports where the superstar of a team completely and utterly shrank and disappeared for an extended period when in the decisive part of the season.

[Sharado]

So if we tried that first half then it’s a clear foul as we couldn’t go near them without them falling over.

Hopper was ignoring Klopp on sideline who was clearly questioning why the officiating was so inconsistent.

It’s also just cliched bullshit about ‘wanting it’. We should have been leading at HT if our strikers didn’t snatch at chances.

How do you explain the same issues in the Atalanta game then? Because we lost a shit load of duels all night that night too and it wasn't the same ref as far as I'm aware

[Qston]

It was shit, we were pretty shite, Boss is leaving soon - which is uber shite. It's just a bit shit.

Dissect, disseminate, stats, blah blah blah. We just haven`t been quite good enough this season.  The announcement probably has played a small part, but there is no good time to do that and to some extent it would have been out of our control.

Just need to be philosophical about it, as hard as that is.

[Nick110581]

How do you explain the same issues in the Atalanta game then? Because we lost a shit load of duels all night that night too and it wasn't the same ref as far as I'm aware

We were shit against Atalanta but still could have been leading at HT. Elliott hit the bar and Nunez missed one again.

Arguably, we should have been 3-1 up at HT last night. The finishing against them, United and Palace have been a joke.

Arsenal have scored two goals in last two that are mishits.

[ljycb]

I thought they were superb and would have been difficult to get anything from even if we were playing at a competent level, but we were abject and deservedly lost. I am really looking forward to this season being over now.

[Chris~]

Absolutely spot on.

It's fair and correct for people to say that several players through the lineup (Ibou, Szobo, Jones, Endo) have also had their levels tail off badly. But no matter how much of a cliche it is, you can't ever understate the importance of goals changing games and changing the mood.

The same thing happened in the second leg vs Atalanta - Salah missed what was for him a really scorable chance and the mood and hope plummeted from there. Same thing last night. Once Darwin and Diaz missed those chances, we mentally gave in. If Salah's goes in vs Atalanta, and we get to the break 2-0 up, then I think we get another one or two in the second half. If Darwin scores his biggest chance last night, I think we go on to win in the second half.

Collectively the players should've done better recently, but to me, the goalscorers in the team are the most culpable. They have absolutely killed us the past 6 weeks. Darwin in my opinion will never be a guy we could count on - he is what he is. Salah's disintegration is pretty incredible to me though. I still can't think of a worse example in elite sports where the superstar of a team completely and utterly shrank and disappeared for an extended period when in the decisive part of the season.

For a stats view on this 7.1 non-penalty goals worse than our XG in the last 8 league games and it's pretty much all in games we've dropped points. For comparison Arsenal are +3.3 over the same games. (Opta stays via fbref) We've definitely been fragile defensively,but we're set up to take risks to create chances, we were never going to be relying on a tough defence to win it, and the forwards have fucked it in the run in.

[jillcwhomever]

Sad end to the season and to Klopp’s reign. The players have let him down massively. Hope Slot is up to the challenge but I fear it’s an impossible job for him , some of them players are not good enough or on the way over the hill. Wholesale changes are going to be needed.

People keep saying this the players have let him down, but anyone saying they expected to win the title this season is not being honest. This was a situation we never expected to be in considering what happened last season. Add all the numerous injuries this season as well, players in and out of the team, forcing other players to play more than they otherwise would; I am not entirely surprised we have run out of steam. If we get top four and a cup win, that would have satisfied me considering where we started the season from.

[Sharado]

We were shit against Atalanta but still could have been leading at HT. Elliott hit the bar and Nunez missed one again.

Arguably, we should have been 3-1 up at HT last night. The finishing against them, United and Palace have been a joke.

Arsenal have scored two goals in last two that are mishits.

But what arsenal have had us a half decent base to build on of not conceding chances and goals. We haven't done that. Yes the ref may have given up a few soft free kicks but that doesn't mean failing to deal with relatively basic clearances, or winning the odd fucking header (did we win any that first half?). I agree with you that our forwards have fallen off a cliff since united away the first time but the rest of the team isn't competing nearly well enough so that if/when they do miss chances the whole thing is catastrophic. Not going 1-0 down in every fucking game would be a real start.

[Red_Mist]

I'll say it again, Everton won TWICE as many duels as us. This is a recurring theme at present as I believe atalantas numbers were similar. Whether it's fatigue or something else, we've stopped competing.

Are we a classic, “they don’t like it up em you know” team at the moment? I think the ref was terrible but there’s also truth in what you say. One of several on the new manager’s list of things to sort out asap. I don’t mean turn us into a pub team obviously, but we have to be able to adapt to the opposition if they are ‘up for it’ and getting in our faces/ putting it about to use all the clichés. And let’s face it, teams get up for our games. It’s just a fact of life. We need to start taking charge from the first minute, control the game, take the steam out. Then do our thing. It’s what we’ve been crying out for and yet we still keep conceding first. Just makes it an uphill battle then against a team with their tails up that was already motivated. Since we’ve lost our mojo, can’t even rely on waiting til they tire now, which is when we’ve won so many games. We’re the ones that are knackered due to chasing so many games.

It’s now about giving Jürgen as positive a send off as possible and a chance to show our appreciation for the incredible times he’s given us. But it’s also time to start looking forward and a new manager with a fresh start is going to be good for this team I think. Don’t want to see wholesale changes, but it needs more than a few minor tweaks. Some tactical changes and a few personnel changes, but most all come back next season harder to play against. No more first half pushovers.

[Nick110581]

People keep saying this the players have let him down, but anyone saying they expected to win the title this season is not being honest. This was a situation we never expected to be in considering what happened last season. Add all the numerous injuries this season as well, players in and out of the team, forcing other players to play more than they otherwise would; I am not entirely surprised we have run out of steam. If we get top four and a cup win, that would have satisfied me considering where we started the season from.

The same players that have let him / us down got us to this position.

It’s just revisionism so people feel better.

[Nick110581]

But what arsenal have had us a half decent base to build on of not conceding chances and goals. We haven't done that. Yes the ref may have given up a few soft free kicks but that doesn't mean failing to deal with relatively basic clearances, or winning the odd fucking header (did we win any that first half?). I agree with you that our forwards have fallen off a cliff since united away the first time but the rest of the team isn't competing nearly well enough so that if/when they do miss chances the whole thing is catastrophic. Not going 1-0 down in every fucking game would be a real start.

The amount of points won from losing positions is not sustainable over a whole season so maybe we have run out of gas.

It’s hard not to be upset but it always felt the City home game and the Spurs farce would make it almost impossible to win it. We had to come back and win 8/9 out of last 10.

[spider-neil]

Most of the teams in this league are so shit that if you keep things tight they nearly always trip themselves up and give you opportunities. Unfortunately, we nearly always concede the first goal.

[Nick110581]

Most of the teams in this league are so shit that if you keep things tight they nearly always trip themselves up and give you opportunities. Unfortunately, we nearly always concede the first goal.

16 times in the League this season. That’s not sustainable as I say.

It’s never been fixed and the strikers haven’t been able to bail us out.

[GarciaAndNunezNunezNunez]

People will obviously point to the finishing, but for me there's so much game intelligence missing from the current team in defence and midfield.

This is passes out from the back, deciding when to make a run and take on a man, crossing it at the wrong time, not crossing it when you should be and the other team is exposed, passes down the line when there is an overload, the final pass to the striker when other defence is outnumbered, closing down, when to foul a player and when not to. We look easy to beat on a 1 v 1. It is common to see 1 player even take 3-4 of ours out of the game without him being fouled or dispossessed.

There are a litany of things not being done the correct way. Very simple things that top sides should not be doing.

[DonkeyWan]

16 times in the League this season. That’s not sustainable as I say.

It’s never been fixed and the strikers haven’t been able to bail us out.

Midfield is still the main problem.

[Crosby Nick]

You can say Everton were winning their duels but when they clattered our players nothing was given and when we challenged their players a foul was given almost every time. The ref gave Everton the licence to attack our goal with set piece after set piece.

Yeah. There’s about ten duels we ‘won’ in the first half that they fit free kicks for. And then got slaughtered for being bullied and for conceding too many free kicks.

That said, consistently losing the first header was bad. I know they overload the back post but we didn’t seem to have an answer to it.

[Nick110581]

Midfield is still the main problem.

It was a brand new midfield from weekend last night too.

I would have started Endo but he may have found it tough too.

[killer-heels]

It was a brand new midfield from weekend last night too.

I would have started Endo but he may have found it tough too.

Endo was really bad.

[koptommy93]

2 wins at Goodison in 9 years under Klopp. Shite.

[jillcwhomever]

2 wins at Goodison in 9 years under Klopp. Shite.

Like your posts then.