Author Topic: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week  (Read 12189 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« on: February 18, 2005, 09:57:43 am »
You may not wish to believe it, of course. But I can confirm that, unfortunately, the news is true. 

   Or rather, fortunately the news is true.

   By virtue of making the Carling Cup final, Gerrard will shake hands with various Chelsea officials on the pitch at the Millennium Stadium –– although it's fair to say that any smile and handshake between our captain and the opposing manager will lead to all sorts of misinterpretations. Lip-readers will find themselves inundated with requests to decipher the shapes their mouths form. "Yes, if we look closely, Mr Gerrard can clearly be seen to say 'I've always hated being a scouser, and I am dying to reinvent myself as a cockney, once I've gone up these apples and pears to collect the trophy, gawd luvva duck, me old sparra'".

   Body language experts will tell us how Gerrard's stance confirms he has as-good-as signed a deal to go to Stamford Bridge. "Look, the way he shifts his weight from one leg to the other –– that's tells you everything. He's going to Chelsea." Be prepared to become even more sick of the whole saga (if that's possible) in the next fortnight. (And of course, I can't deny that articles like this one are only adding to the debate. So my apologies in advance).

   Six months ago I wrote a confident piece detailing why, in my opinion, Steven Gerrard would refuse the (golden) apple offered by the serpentine Peter Kenyon from his Garden of Mammon. (Okay, I'm mixing my biblical references a little here). Temptation would not be Stevie G's undoing, and he would stay for two seasons at the least (I was perhaps feeling very optimistic) to give Benitez a chance to prove his worth –– two seasons being the minimum requirement, given that this first season was always going to be difficult. Keeping Gerrard would surely be down to the player considering the long-term plan, over two or three years (roughly half the duration of Houllier's infamous time framework), and not a potentially-flawed one-season 'make-or-break' assessment?

   So, six months on, and with a cup final against Chelsea on the horizon (and the end of the season less than three months away), what has transpired?

   Well, despite it being touch-and-go, I was proved correct in the assertion Gerrard would stay (for this season, at least), and I was also –– alas –– right in stating this season would not be smooth sailing. Having said that, I obviously didn't expect it to be so beset by extreme poor fortune regarding injuries. The inconsistency doesn't surprise me in the slightest –– my catchphrase for the season could be "Inconsistent and uncertain situations lead to inconsistent and uncertain performances". (Not quite as memorable, I'll grant, as "Go ahead punk, make my day").

   However, my certainty that Gerrard will stay beyond the summer is now no more than 50%. The previously unthinkable (try recalling the situation twelve months ago) is now a realistic prospect, if not quite a fait accompli. Quite frankly, your guess is as good as mine on this one. Will he stay or will he go? Well, if he stays there will be trouble. But if he goes there will be double. (Apologies for the bastardization, Clash fans).

   What has changed? Is it purely down to our indifferent form? Or is it simply a prolonged case of the inevitable, once the wheels were set in motion last summer?

   Nothing in the summer could convince me that this would be anything other than a transitional season, with fourth place always the realistic aim, given we would be challenging settled and superior sides blessed with more money to spend. Like others I hoped against reason for a miracle, but Benitez would have needed £100m+ and a reversal of fortune to work such wonders. (The club has spent £35m since last season, and £25m of that outlay –– roughly three-quarters –– has resulted in season-curtailing broken bones. Of the new talent Benitez has at his disposal in the second half of the season, the cost of those still fit is far less than the combined fees he received for those sold: Owen, Heskey and Murphy. So instead of having a far stronger squad, Rafa is currently working with a 'cheaper' one than he inherited).

   A manager's first year has to be about taking stock: assessing what he has, how it works, what elements aren't working, what elements are totally absent, and how he can go about making changes. That's a long-term process. You can't do that in pre-season, or in training, as you have no idea how your players react in pressure situations, or in the face of adversity. You learn only in the reality of competition.

   Unlike Mourinho, Benitez was inheriting something in need of repair, and also unlike Mourinho, he didn't have that much money to fix what he inherited. Mourinho was customizing his flashy blue racing car –– applying the finishing touches of go-faster stripes, aerodynamic spoilers and a fat fuck-you exhaust –– while on his red car, Benitez was trying to glue together a broken chassis, repair bodywork and replace burst tyres.

   Benitez never had the luxury of being able to ditch the entire first team squad, as Shankly did back in the early 60s, to start completely afresh. It would cost too much, for a start (paying off contracts, and if you are clearly desperate to sell it's as good as guaranteed that you won't get full value). Nor would he want to do something so dramatic; Benitez inherited plenty of quality, just not enough. There were some interesting components to work with, including, of course, the subject of this article: a powerful engine, but one which was being enviously coveted by a rival.

   In footballing terms, what is there to keep Gerrard? I'm sure he has faith in the manager and his staff (check their CVs), but what does he make of his colleagues on the playing staff? Does he see the quality necessary to begin challenging next season? (I expect us to be much better next season, but only realistically challenging for the title the year after, but clearly I have more patience than Gerrard).

   At this stage of the campaign, I would assert that there are four categories of player at Anfield into which Gerrard –– and of course I am purely speculating –– would place his teammates. The way I see it (and you may see it differently, as indeed could Gerrard himself), the following players fit into the outlined categories. It doesn't mean they're all of equal ability, but as a rough guide it should suffice.

   Category A: the players who are genuine quality, who offer that something extra, even if it hasn't been all plain sailing, or they haven't quite shown their full potential; I am not saying they are all destined to be 'greats' of the game. These are the players that any top pro would be happy to play alongside, and the nucleus of talent (some still raw, some undoubtedly flawed) around which the team can be formed. Gerrard will know how fine these players are from training (judging on comments from the club), even if they haven't quite shown it in games. Some may be past their best, but it's still too early to write them off, given the quality they've shown in the past, and the wealth of experience that cannot easily be cast aside. These are the names that have that ring of 'quality' about them.
 
   Gerrard (he would of course include himself), Alonso, Carragher, Baros, Morientes, Hyypia, Kewell, Hamann, Cisse, Riise, Luis Garcia, Kirkland, Finnan. (Some of these may seem undeserving, but with the exception of the years catching up with the older pros, these could easily comprise the core of the squad for seasons to come).

   Category B: the intermediate players who have proved they can do a job, and may have had some great games or even one great season, but have lacked the necessary consistency over a number of seasons, or not quite done enough to totally convince. With a good tail-wind they could yet prove successes at Liverpool (especially the young up-and-coming players), but I'd guess that at least half will be heading for the exit in the next six-to-18 months.

   Dudek, Biscan and Smicer (in terms of talent good enough to be in group A, but not proven enough over the years; perhaps lacking something mentally, rather than technically); Pellegrino (on pedigree and winning mentality, if not performances as yet), Mellor, Diarra (doing superbly in France and now a full French international), Sinama-Pongolle (like Diarra, capable of promotion to Category A in a year or two at this rate of improvement), Warnock (doing well without being outstanding), Traore (improving, but still liable to make howlers –– could go either way for the lad. The best 'recovery tackle' in the league,  but a better positional sense and being more switched-on would often cut out the problem at its source) 

   Category C: those who have yet to sufficiently impress, but in some cases are new and in need to time to settle. The other members of this group are are on borrowed time, and the two Spanish lads won't get long if they don't meet the standards expected.
   
   Josemi, Nunez, Partridge, Luzi, Otsemobor. And of course, Diao, Diouf and Cheyrou, when their loan deals expire.

   Finally, Category D: Potential. Those who are 21-or-under, and may have played for the first team but are too young to be thought of as anything other than long-term prospects (in that youngsters can develop at different rates). At least half have the potential to turn into Category A players within a handful of years –– although in Gerrard's mind, that may be too far into the future. The odds also suggest a few will end up plying their trade elsewhere within a couple of years.

   Carson, Le Tallec, Welsh, Potter, Whitbread, Raven

   So in terms of playing talent, there's plenty to be optimistic about, if not quite enough for the squad to have the ring of title-challengers about it. The key is getting players fit and in consistent form, discarding the excess baggage, and adding quality to the first team and, where possible, depth to the squad. Not an easy task, of course. But not an impossible one, either.

   If Gerrard, by staying, thought he was going to win the league this season, he was very much deluded. But given many of his comments earlier in the season, it seems clear to me that he knew getting this side into full working order in such a short space of time was beyond any manager. It's impossible to think a Wenger or a Ferguson could have turned the tide in six months, given their records during their first season at what were then under-achieving big clubs.

   Gerrard cannot fail to have been impressed by Benitez. He can surely sense that this is the right man for the tough task at hand. He's seen at close quarters what the Spaniard is trying to achieve. Having said that, is it a case not of too little too late, but simply too late, full stop? Given Gerrard knew it would take longer than one season, surely he has to back that feeling with a second season? In an ideal world, at least.

   Gerrard demanded to be surrounded by top quality players; of the other nine outfield positions in our strongest XI, two will now be taken by the hugely impressive Benitez signings, Xabi Alonso and Fernando Morientes. I'm also certain Gerrard knows how good Luis Garcia is, even if some fans are frustrated by the little man's inconsistency. Losing Owen in August was a blow, but it's seen Baros emerge as a regular goalscorer (with a ratio no worse than Owen's last season), and Cisse will be in the equation come pre-season. Carragher has improved dramatically, and Riise once again looks a potent attacking force. The skeleton of a great side is there. It just needs fleshing out.

   (A quick aside about Cisse. As the quickest striker in the country –– all being well –– he will force defences to drop a lot deeper than they need to against the sprightly-but-not-super-quick Baros. Teams know their quickest defender can catch Baros –– that won't be true of Cisse. Of course, the deeper a defence sits, the further forward Morientes can position himself, and therefore the threat of him scoring from crosses into the box greatly increases. If teams push out to negate Morientes' aerial prowess, to keep him 40 yards from goal –– and even he doesn't score 40-yard headers –– then that provides the space for Cisse to run into).

   Maybe the greatest testament to Rafa's quality is how Valencia are coping in his absence. Rafa's replacement at Valencia, Claudio Ranieri, is being laughed at across Spain, and branded a clueless idiot. Sid Lowe, the Guardian website's Spanish football correspondent, wrote: "Valencia have suffered two vital, long-term injuries to Vicente and Fabián Ayala (the only players Rafa Benítez never rotated), but that still doesn't explain the collapse or the fact that Ranieri, who seems to have taken his coaching badge at the Peter Kay Soccer School, has turned the champions into long-ball merchants with no creativity, no class and no organisation."
   
   From that, you can conclude that Valencia had plenty of creativity, class and organization under Benitez. The trophies back that up. (As did playing Valencia –– Rick Parry confirming that the senior Liverpool players all rated Valencia the best team they had faced in recent seasons).

   While it's true to say that Benitez has, like Ranieri, struggled at his new club (with even greater injury problems than the Italian is experiencing –– just two key players injured?), Rafa is merely steadying a sinking ship at present. If the club isn't dramatically better off, it certainly isn't in any worse shape. Despite the doom and gloom surrounding Anfield, the club has a cup final and the Champions League knock-out stages to look forward to. Fifth in the league isn't great, but it's not disastrous in the circumstances.

   Valencia were one of the best teams in Europe last season, and while it can be difficult taking over successful sides (replacing a great manager has its pitfalls), it is surely easier than taking over a side failing to live up to its reputation, with a selection of problems to address? Since Benitez emigrated, Valencia have fallen into disarray. If anything, given the impending cup final, the steady Champions League progress, and the two world-class arrivals (to one waving goodbye), Liverpool are in almost certainly in better shape than 12 months ago. (Maybe not saying an awful lot, but there are those who feel the club hasn't progressed in the slightest, given the league standings).

   Ranieri is the man who took Chelsea –– there's that connection again –– to a Champions League semi-final, and second in the league. It was, of course, with the aid of  £150m. Managing Valencia relies almost solely on tactical acumen. If Benitez –– who achieved so much with so little money (and he barely spent a penny) –– was loved while at the Estadio Mestalla, he'll be canonized now club is collapsing in his absence.

   But for all Liverpool FC has going for it, Gerrard can surely see that Chelsea have an unfair advantage –– money from outside the game, outside the country, even –– and this makes for an alarmingly uneven playing field. If Chelsea are better than Liverpool now (and let's face it, they clearly are, even if I am confident of beating them next week), then it doesn't take a genius to assume that transposing Liverpool's best player into Chelsea's team would only widen the chasm. Gerrard might very reasonably conclude that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

   The Carling Cup Final will also be overshadowed by the words 'Gerrard' and 'Chelsea'. It will be seen as his audition to play in blue, whilst also billed as the one remaining chance for his teammates in red to prove they are worthy of his enduring presence.

   If Benitez were to get £35m from the sale, if it were to take place, there's little doubt that he could fashion a better side than he now has. Benitez will take the club in the right direction with or without Gerrard. It's impossible to tell whether the side Benitez fashions over the coming years would be better with Gerrard, or a clutch of quality new signings procured with the bounty, as you cannot compare two alternatives that are mutually exclusive. It can only be one way or the other. (But it does leave a fascinating talking point). The main worry is that Gerrard will certainly give Chelsea a lot more possibilities, even if Lampard and Gerrard perhaps share too many similarities in the areas they look to exploit. (Gerrard is of course versatile enough to perform various roles).

   If selling could help improve Liverpool through inspired re-investmet (a gamble, of course, but three or four great players are better for a team than one superb one), it will also add complications to closing the gap. Normally you'd feel secure that the buying club was using up its entire transfer budget, and putting all its eggs into one basket. In this respect, Chelsea have no ceiling. If they so choose, they could add three or four more £30m players this summer.

   The media bandwagon is rolling with such momentum that Gerrard stands little or no chance, even if he wants to, of escaping the lasso of those onboard. You sense the endless speculation will eventually haul the player in.

   If you've ever seen a self-fulfilling prophecy, you'll recognize the signs. The press are making it very hard for Gerrard to stay, and they are only too aware of that. Inducements from Chelsea might be at the heart of such constant speculation.

   The whole 'aura' of LFC seems out of kilter, unbalanced by the weight of the Gerrard issue. Teammates are concerned about his future, and the manager is in an unenviable position of trying to weigh up the situation's undoubted pros and cons. If Rafa's hand is forced by the player asking to leave, then the solution is clear. The problem lies in the silent signals, or the veiled threats about leaving.

   Fans are turning against Gerrard in their droves (to varying degrees), in anticipation of the jilting Dear John letter left of the mantlepiece. With a lover, when you see rejection on the horizon, at least you can leave them first. As fans, we can't walk out on Liverpool Football Club.

   There is definitely a sea-change in opinion towards the player. Not so long ago he was untouchable, the biggest local hero since Fowler, and moving up to stand alongside the very best players in the club's history. Now there is little unconditional love. What love there is is based purely on the hope he'll stay, and only if that condition is met will that affection be shown in full force. Without him signing a new long-term deal at Liverpool (which is never going to happen), there will be no long-term dedication. Words about staying will ring hollow.

   As his is right, he may look to run down his contract; that won't make the remainder of his time at Anfield free from worry. At present he is a massive asset to the club. Losing him would be bad enough; losing him for free, or at a greatly reduced price, would be devastating.

   His form has been patchy of late, after a good first half of the season (even allowing for the broken foot). His nine goals have been a massive bonus, and it's the one area of his game we'd miss the most. That tally includes not one single penalty, and many of the goals have been crucial.

   The most irritating thing about this season is that even when Gerrard has been poor, or even abysmal (by his standards) he's still been awarded countless Man of the Match awards. He is getting credit when it's due to others.

   But statistics (never the most reliable of sources, what with lies, lies and damned statistics, but at least partly-valid) suggest the team actually gets better results without "Stevie Wonder". Would any manger opt for a side without Gerrard, if he had the option of including him? Of course not. But it seems the man most missed is Xabi Alonso. It could be argued that he is the key man: the fulcrum, the metronome. Ideally the two will blossom together in tandem, as Alonso is not a team in himself; Gerrard's attacking threat is not in Xabi's armoury. He needs players who can read his intentions, or make runs into the spaces he is capable of hitting. Gerrard can do that.

   Maybe it all rests on whether or not we qualify for the Champions League; if we don't, then the chances of keeping Gerrard must be very slim indeed. Which only adds more pressure to the chase for fourth spot. This season –– despite being up against it in so many ways –– finishing fourth is paramount. Doing so would help keep Gerrard, not to mention fund the necessary rebuilding.

As for the whole "Gerrard to Chelsea" saga, I'm sick of it. Aren't you?

© Paul Tomkins 2005

As ever, to register a (purely provisional) interest in purchasing Golden Past, Red Future when it is published this summer, please email tomkins_lfcbook@btinternet.com or visit www.paultomkins.com



« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 10:30:16 am by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Guy Incognito

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2005, 10:53:36 am »
Good read Paul, thanks.

Personally, I'm resigned to losing him. Frankly, I'd prefer the 35 million rather than all this constant shite about us being a one man team. Hell, might even galvanise some of our players like Rooney leaving Everton no?

Either way, I just want closure.

Offline Forbsie

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2005, 10:56:36 am »
As per usual great read.

As for "Gerrard to Chelsea"  saga, was fed up with it last summer and still it drags on and on and on... :no

I think we've all got our thoughts and opinions on the matter but wish the media would leave it for a few days/weeks/months and focus something or someone else.
If Kenny Dalglish had simply played football for Liverpool he would be an Anfield hero. However, the fact that he managed the club to even greater success guarantees him the status of a legend.

Offline gjr1

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2005, 11:01:19 am »
Hi.

A very fun read this one.

Enjoyed it.

A few points.

How long does SG have on his contract?

I think he will stay at least until Jan next year. Even if we finish outside of CL.

Winning the CC will be a big bonus and hopfully the first trophey SG will lift as captain.

As you say, he can see the talent, Rafa as started to assemble. It is a real shame the injuries have kicked in big time this year.

I don't think SG will run down his contract to the point where is value is too low. I think he owes at least that to LFC.

:)

[edited in]

As for getting sick of it I think we all are, until the last day or 2, every comment from SG that lean towards staying though have been negative. I dont think it is completly his fault but if he is still not sure himself, then that is bad for the club, the team and the fans.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 11:06:21 am by gjr1 »
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Offline Kanonkop

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2005, 11:04:11 am »
Great article, spot on as always.

Quick thought on Chelsea to add (yes I know this is a Liverpool forum) but in some ways, for the good of Liverpool, the game and everything else I actually hope that they win the Premiership and the Champions league this season (and throw in the FA cup to boot).  As galling as it is to make such a statement.

I think this is the only thing which will slow them down.  Until they win, Abramovich will keep throwing money at them to achieve his goal.  However, once they have won, he will have achieved his objective and his motivation (or desire) will fade.  At this point he is much more likely to take a more commercial approach to the club and stop bankrolling £100m player purchases each summer.  He did not get to his current state of wealth by being totally ignorant of commercial considerations.

Regarding SG, I have reached the point where I am no longer particularly bothered if he stays or goes.  Should he stay then its absolutely fantastic as he is a very good player, bot not one who has reached his peak yet.  If he goes, then we have the money.

In either case, we have Benitez, one of the very very best managers in the world, and it is him rather than any individual player who will bring success to this club.  That is the only thing that really matters in my opinion.
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Offline gjr1

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2005, 11:10:32 am »
Hi,

Great article, spot on as always.

Quick thought on Chelsea to add (yes I know this is a Liverpool forum) but in some ways, for the good of Liverpool, the game and everything else I actually hope that they win the Premiership and the Champions league this season (and throw in the FA cup to boot).  As galling as it is to make such a statement.

I think this is the only thing which will slow them down.  Until they win, Abramovich will keep throwing money at them to achieve his goal.  However, once they have won, he will have achieved his objective and his motivation (or desire) will fade.  At this point he is much more likely to take a more commercial approach to the club and stop bankrolling £100m player purchases each summer.  He did not get to his current state of wealth by being totally ignorant of commercial considerations.

Regarding SG, I have reached the point where I am no longer particularly bothered if he stays or goes.  Should he stay then its absolutely fantastic as he is a very good player, bot not one who has reached his peak yet.  If he goes, then we have the money.

In either case, we have Benitez, one of the very very best managers in the world, and it is him rather than any individual player who will bring success to this club.  That is the only thing that really matters in my opinion.

Not sure if I agree with Chelsea winning evrything but I see where your comming from :)

I don't actually think he will throw much more in now no matter what happens. Perhaps the odd 20m or so but I thinnk he will want Chelsea to start making money in the next few years.

For the sake of English football, I hope Chelsea goes sour very soon.

:)
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Offline Jim Price

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2005, 11:13:57 am »
Interesting stuff, I would say emphasis needs to be placed on attitude as well as talent when categorising these players, whatever the criteria I would say certain individuals are flattered by your catergorisation, but then its all about opinions.

Where we would all agree is that we need more players in category A. I think Benitez will have learned from this signings so far what types of players will or won't work in English football. We have to believe that if Gerrard goes, as I feel he will, then Rafa can identify 3 category A players and sign them. Personally I think that will represent progress.

Offline Red Lozza

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2005, 11:16:49 am »
Great read that, Paul (and I loved The Clash line!).

I personally think Stevie will leave in the summer. Even though I don't think it will be the end of the world if he leaves, I'd much rather he stays.

But the last thing I want is for him to say: "I'll give it another season at Anfield". I'd rather he leave than have another season of this. I don't think the current situation does anything for team spirit other than harm it.

And if we do sell Stevie, I'd love to see us get Cudicini as part of any deal.

Offline Rusty

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2005, 11:22:17 am »

I agree with the media Bandwagon theory. Once all those journo's have decided they want Gerrard to go, they'll keep banging on about it and adding comments such as "Le Tissier stayed at one club and now looking at his lack of medals probably regrets his decision" and so on. There's only so much banter he'll be able to take on International duty, tapping-up by players, probably by Chelsea as well, and so on.

And I'm afraid I have to agree, I'm getting bloody sick of the whole saga as well, either he'll stay and give us the whole of next season, or go and let us get on with the future.

He's made Kaizer wet himself with excitement then cry when he realises all in one post. Ban him? Knight him in the new year's honours!

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2005, 11:29:48 am »
Interesting stuff, I would say emphasis needs to be placed on attitude as well as talent when categorising these players, whatever the criteria I would say certain individuals are flattered by your catergorisation, but then its all about opinions.


As I said, just my opinion! :)

But I think someone like Luis Garcia has a fantastic attitude; others may disagree, but I see him working hard even when things aren't coming off. I sincerely believe he'll be a great asset to the club. He is always looking for the ball, and tracks back well. But because he's lightweight it looks like he isn't trying at times.

Also in A was Kirkland, who has a fantastic mentality, and everyone who has worked with him says how outstanding he is. We've certainly not seen the best of him, but that special talent and attitude is there. Finnan maybe doesn't deserve to be in there, but he's a player Ferguson was very keen on, and voted the best right-back in the Prem when at Fulham. He's improving at Liverpool this season.

As I said, the categorizations were based on a number of factors, which I think you understand. Beyond this, I'm not going to argue the fact over that aspect of the article, as I'd be online all year, as everyone will think differently...

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2005, 11:42:10 am »
Another great article there Paul, thanks for that.

I really believe that Gerrard staying at the club for another season would be  bad thing. I know he is a fantastic player, irreplacable and a scouser. For me the lad should have gone last season and I believe would have done had Owen left earlier in the transfer window.

I recall everybody's delight when he said he was staying. Perhaps the pessimist in me knew back then that it was inevitable he will go. The press conference he gave after deciding to stay looked like a Headmaster (parry) getting a pupil (gerrard) to apologise for breaking a window.

His whole body language at that press conference said he had bottled it rather than that gone with his heart crap. I hate the attention the media give this and Stevie has courted it to be fair. Its probably clever PR by SFX, all season he have had timely reminders that he is considering his future. The day before the Olympiakos game was one such time. I think all the way along these comments have been fed to us fans to get is used to the idea and to ensure that there is not a mass wave of hatred when he goes.

I was at the Olympiakos game when he scored that goal, and for about ten minutes after I was back there with total admiration for our skipper, a sense of pride at what he had done. It was only once the game had finished and I started the long journey home that I beagn to think about Pongo and Mellor and how they had changed the game and what they must be feeling at all the attention heaped on Stevie. I would imagine that ever single one of them players in the dressing room is sick to death of the words Stevie Gerrard and his constant requests for them to prove they are good enough.

For me we should get shot of him, and it should be our decision. Lets not stand around and wait for him to let us know if we are good enough for him, lets stick a price tag on him and sell him to the highest bidder. The proceeds should go to a bunch of players that WANT without any caveats to play for the shirt and the club and for us fans.

I wish the lad luck as I do with all our player that leave, we will still be Liverpool FC.


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Offline Chivasino

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2005, 11:56:13 am »
Great Stuff, Paul. spot on as usual.

I think most Reds are just fed up with this whole issue.

Gerrard could have ended the speculation a long time ago by simply saying 'No, I'm not leaving Liverpool, I'm here for the long haul.' Therefore I'm resigned to him leaving.

I trust Rafa to use the money wisely and re-invent a more balanced team, that will go on to be successful.

But I'm of the opinion that Gerrard won't go to Chelsea. I think he could end up in Spain. A bidding war between Chelsea and Real, even Barca, would be very beneficial.

Offline WOOLTONIAN

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2005, 11:57:01 am »
I love debating your articles, but honestly mate, I'm exhausted on the SG subject.

I hope he stays, but we need to sign a new ATTITUDE contract with the guy
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Offline Walton_Gary

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2005, 11:57:47 am »
Good article that and your right its doing my fuckin head in an all, somethimes even looking at Gerrard makes me angry, that might sound harsh but its true, i knew from the moment he said that half hearted interview were he said he was staying, he'd be gone by June.

I also agree about Benitez turning us around, but its not all as rosey as many people think.

Theres been alot made about his signings all being foriegn (except carsley) but that doesnt arse me, what arses me is the quality, Pellegino, Josemi and Nunez havent got it. Pellegrino was Valencia's 5th choice centre half, Josemi was, i think, only brought in because he's a fuckin loony and kicks people obviously meaning he can play in England -WRONG! and Nunez, although we never paid anything for him, is just fuckin lost. Garcia has his spells but gives the ball away far too much, but there glimpses of talent there unlike the others.

Apart from his signings i think he is leading us to greatness, ive seen football this year i havent seen since spells under Evans and we will improve, the key word is patience

Offline Hattori Hanzo

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2005, 11:59:24 am »
the last line sums it up for me im afraid,

FUCKING SICK OF IT

gerrard needs to realise where he is well off - im personally hoping he goes, i dont say that because of the usual "think what we could do with 35million"

the guys attitude stinks, i hate it - i hated it in the summer and i hate it even more now -

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Offline Paul Tomkins

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2005, 12:01:59 pm »
I love debating your articles, but honestly mate, I'm exhausted on the SG subject.


Well, it's topical with next week in mind. Just my take on it, as an update on what I'd said before. Take it or leave it, but I understand anyone having had their fill of it all...


Theres been alot made about his signings all being foriegn (except carsley)


When did we sign that yard-dog?!  ;)

Of course you meant Carson...

Offline Rushian

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2005, 12:31:19 pm »
.... what arses me is the quality, Pellegino, Josemi and Nunez havent got it. Pellegrino was Valencia's 5th choice centre half, Josemi was, i think, only brought in because he's a fuckin loony and kicks people obviously meaning he can play in England -WRONG! and Nunez, although we never paid anything for him, is just fuckin lost.

But what did those signings cost? 2m in total for three players. Pellegrino is lined up to become a coach and is only on a six month contract as experienced cover as Henchoz was off. And he was first choice Valencia centreback last season in a team that won the strongest league in Europe.

Josemi started well and went downhill. Nunez has never really got started through injury but again they're very cheap squad fillers not 5.5m squad players.

When Benitez has spent big he's bought Alonso, Morientes and Garcia for 22m - the first two of absolute quality and the other who has shown flashes of this (during a season in which his missus has given birth - according to Shankly you could forget a player for a full season if his wife gave birth to their first child).

If Benitez keeps spending well with the big money I don't care if he makes the odd mistake in the bargain bucket department to fill up holes in a threadbare squad.
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Offline Bob Kurac

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2005, 12:35:18 pm »
(during a season in which his missus has given birth - according to Shankly you could forget a player for a full season if his wife gave birth to their first child).

Excellent, and much overlooked, point. (An excuse M. Houllier missed out on when he had the opportunity!)

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2005, 12:39:44 pm »
Excellent, and much overlooked, point.


Indeed. Mentioned it a few weeks back, as it's such a big deal - as anyone who's had kids knows. I didn't know Shanks had commented on it, though.

All things considered, I think Luis Garcia has had a fine first season so far - some great highs, some poor lows, but on balance he can be proud of himself, especially when taking into account the six weeks he missed, the settling in, the language issues, the birth of his child, and being away from his pregnant wife earlier in the season. Players are human beings, not machines.

That said, for Luis G to be an outright success, he needs to find more consistency. No one's denying that.

Offline Kanonkop

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2005, 01:17:15 pm »
Ultimately, Garcia has done significantly better in his first season fro us than e.g. Pires and Ljungberg did at Arsenal.

This is the correct comparison for him and as such it really holds a lot of promise for next season and beyond.  The fact that Alonso settled so quickly is a one-off and not something you normally see with any player regardless of ability so comparing Garcia to Alonso just because they are both at Liverpool is wrong.

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Offline didi

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2005, 02:07:36 pm »
interesting read too, sorry dont know how to paste it

http://www.squarefootball.net/content/article/article.asp?aid=1688

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2005, 02:32:38 pm »
From reading a lot of the threads on RAWK and some other sources, I feel the whole controversy could be settled in one minute; next time he's interviewed, all he has to say is "I am not and have no intention of going to Chelsea... next question?"

Being from the States, even I'M sick of all the talk, and that's just from reading forums on the web; I can't imagine what it's like on Merseyside with this in the papers, on radio, etc every day.
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Offline courty61

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2005, 02:52:42 pm »
I agree with the media Bandwagon theory. Once all those journo's have decided they want Gerrard to go, they'll keep banging on about it and adding comments such as "Le Tissier stayed at one club and now looking at his lack of medals probably regrets his decision" and so on.


But the thing is Stevie HAS won medals with us: 1 FA Cup, 2 League Cups (hopefully 3!), 1 UEFA Cup, and 2 other medals from the 'no-mark' cups. He does want to win the league n CL obviously but when the press say that he wants to win medals, well he's won 4 (or 6 including CS & SC) medals and maybe 5, and he's still only 24 nearly 25. Look at Keane, he's 35 and he's still the best CM in the league (pains me to say that), so Stevie cant say he's leaving to win medals as he'll have loads of chances with us.

But I only want him to stay, IF he wants to with all his heart, i would take 30 years off my life to have a career with Liverpool, as many others would. If he wants to go down south then let him, just make sure we get £35m+ for him and let Rafa build a great team.

He was the manager after all who took over from Valencia without Lopez and Mendieta who were there best players by a mile.
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2005, 03:01:15 pm »
Perhaps our best bet of Gerrard staying (whether I want him to or not is beside the point at the moment), is to ask whether he would be suited to Chelsea's shape and tactics. Lampard isn't going to give way- and neither of them are natural holding players- so he may take a realistic look at Mourinho's tactics and ask himself whether he would want to play in the way he'd be asked to.

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2005, 03:30:21 pm »
Perhaps our best bet of Gerrard staying (whether I want him to or not is beside the point at the moment), is to ask whether he would be suited to Chelsea's shape and tactics. Lampard isn't going to give way- and neither of them are natural holding players- so he may take a realistic look at Mourinho's tactics and ask himself whether he would want to play in the way he'd be asked to.

He'd be taking over Tiago's role ...
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2005, 03:32:34 pm »
He'd be taking over Tiago's role ...

But would he be happy to play in that role, or would the realistic probability of medals in his first season suffice?

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2005, 03:35:03 pm »
But would he be happy to play in that role, or would the realistic probability of medals in his first season suffice?

Neither with any luck ;)

Whether he goes or stays, I mean ... if he does I hope he hates it and wins fuck all. But if he stays that would be why.

Even if he went to Madrid, they'd ask him to be Makalele. I just can't see what's in it for him ...
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2005, 03:52:15 pm »
Neither with any luck ;)

Whether he goes or stays, I mean ... if he does I hope he hates it and wins fuck all. But if he stays that would be why.

Even if he went to Madrid, they'd ask him to be Makalele. I just can't see what's in it for him ...
Exactly ('zigackly...'?). Neither Chelsea or RM are really crying out for someone with his all-round game. I'd rather he goes to RM though- as a mate said earlier this week, I don't think I could watch the LFC-Chelsea game otherwise. It would be like seeing your ex missus with some flash rich twat, rubbing your nose in it.

Offline Jamie_H

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2005, 04:23:41 pm »
I just think the club has done all it can PR wise to indicate that they want the player to stay. Parry has recently stated that not even £50m will persuade the club to sell him and Rafa has publically stated he wants to build a team around Steven Gerrard.

For me, if I was the player I would of stated publically I was staying if I was not thinking of moving. He hasn't, he has publically stated that he will make his mind up in the summer. That for me shows he is certainly thinking of leaving which if he was 100% happy here at the club the thought wouldnt cross his mind.

Yes he will be a huge loss, but so was Kevin Keegan, Ian Rush, Robbie Fowler and Micheal Owen but there is always a replacement out there.

All Rafa can do is try and build a team around him at present and show him how the team can improve.  In the summer I would imagine he has not done enough to stop Stevie from going but as long as we get a price we want then sell him.  Going to win medals - my arse! As Alan Sugar recently stated they are all out for money and there is no loyalty in the game anymore. There are only two medals the lad can win which he hasnt with us, the Premier League and Champions league. Give Rafa a chance Stevie and I mean more of a chance than one season and see how it goes eh?  Signing for another 2 seasons would not be the end of the world for you lad and after that time I think we the fans would accept you leaving if we didnt fulfill your desires by then.

Offline Oscar3

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2005, 04:54:00 pm »
I would take the captaincy off him.It would be a brave decision by Rafa but i really do feel it needs to be done.How can you have a leader who is thinking of jumping ship? What must the other players be thinking?I think he made a token gesture last summer by staying and has possibly destroyed our season by causing all of the speculation. Liverpool should already be demanding an answer from him,if he wont give it,sell him or at least start the ball rolling before he does.
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Offline ♠Dirty Harry♠

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2005, 05:57:54 pm »
Nunez - Ballbag

Offline gaz17

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2005, 06:01:22 pm »
Great piece of writing, mirroring the views of many Liverpool fans across the coutry.

Like i've said before if we get 35 million for Stevie this will help Rafa build HIS team and attract the biggest names in Europe. One we get everyone fit we can really start challenging again for major honours, what other team could live with losing Cisse, Alonso, Kewell ect?

Im getting really pissed of with 'Gerrard to Chelsea' from every team we play,  its the worst kept secret in football, i have already accepted him leaving in the summer...barring a massive miracle.... Chelsea go Bankrupt or we win Champions league.... i can dream!

I was once the biggest Stevie g fan but reading other articles and reading the press every day, and seeing his attitude of late he is starting to lose me and many other reds, he needs to sign a new long term deal or LEAVE.

I want what is best for liverpool football club, i support the team! not the man.

Offline Holiara

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2005, 06:20:23 pm »
Nice one Paul. Even though I'm sick of it too and just wish the situation would be resolved sooner than in the summer, I liked the article because it's a different take on the subject. Your categories are rather positive, but I wouldn't class them much differently (maybe one or the other in between class as has been suggested by REDemption)

Perhaps our best bet of Gerrard staying (whether I want him to or not is beside the point at the moment), is to ask whether he would be suited to Chelsea's shape and tactics. Lampard isn't going to give way- and neither of them are natural holding players- so he may take a realistic look at Mourinho's tactics and ask himself whether he would want to play in the way he'd be asked to.

Mr. Claw has a point here. It's not only a matter of positioning. Here he is the hero and the captain, at Chelsea he is part of a squad. If he has a game in blue like he had against Birmingham, he might well end up on the bench. Mourinho doesn't fear to put anybody on the bench or leave them out of the squad completely (like Drogba or Kezman). One positive thing for him might be that he would improve more because he would have to fight more for his place. Here he is practically set and can be sure to be on the pitch for the next game.

Offline Felix

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2005, 10:09:48 pm »
Nice article. Bit of a KopTalk-esque headline ruse going on though?

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2005, 10:36:25 pm »
Bit of a KopTalk-esque headline ruse going on though?


I was trying to be ironic. And obviously failing!

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2005, 11:00:17 pm »
The thing that concerns me the most is that Stevie could kill all the rumours if he wanted to. And I think he should, being the captain and all. I reckon he should say "I'm staying put". That would clearify things for everyone. Now it's like he's using his position of power.

I just wish he could score the winner in the Cup Final and get to lift the trophy in front of all the fans. I reckon that's all he'd need to make up his mind. That is, if he is having any doubts.

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Offline wacko

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2005, 11:08:44 pm »
As always, a great read and food for thought, Paul.

As for me, I'm sick of it. Gerrard's reluctance to say he's staying says to me that he's off. I honestly think we'd be better off with the cash at this point.
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Offline The Red artist.

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2005, 11:50:56 pm »
Great read that,thanks.
How can the team perform consistently when their captain has an attitude like Gerrards,its time the board got tough and give him an ultimatum,commit or we sell to the highest bidder,and then Rafa can get on wi buildin his team with players who want to play for Liverpool f.c.

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Offline Jonno CFC

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2005, 01:59:28 am »
Well I'm a Chelsea fan who got linked to that article and i found it really interesting. I'd personally like him to pledge his future to Liverpol and that is out of admiration of his ability. I can't imagine losing Terry, so I sympathise with the situation.
Good luck in the Cup.

Offline alana

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Re: Steven Gerrard To Meet Chelsea Officials Next Week
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2005, 03:32:24 am »
Love this article Paul.

I think this whole saga needs to be sorted ASAP.

I didn't think Fowler could be replaced (not sure whether he has really), but we moved on.

I believe that if Gerrard is to be sold then he should go anywhere but Chelsea. The one thing I am greatful for is that Owen moved abroard had he been in the premiership then it would have been so much harder to get over him (whereas Robbie never regained his form that he had with us before his injuries so it was easier to forget and forgive).

I am resigned to losing Gerrard and if we do then I think that we should sell him to a foreign club, ok we might meet him in the champions league but I think it would be so much easier to stomach. We wouldn't see him playing week in week out against premier league clubs.

I would personally love him to stay and maybe 2-3 yrs down then line lift major trophies for us (CL or league). I think the longer this discussion goes on the less likely it is that he will be playing for us next season.

However he is young(ish) maybe if his heart was in it he would give us a couple more years and then see what sort of situation we are in.

If he goeas in the summer then I am sure Rafa will spend the money wisely. He has shown that he knows we need quality rather than squad players. He bought xabi and mori, which I am positive has given the whole team (and fans) a boost, and it shows we can still attract quality players. I think we need to give garcia, nunez and josemi more time because of there injuries and personal circumstances.

BY the end of next season we will have more opinions of Rafas signings and we can probably make more of a judgement, but until then we will just have to wait. I believe he is the right man for the job, and after living thru the 90's hope that this will be the decade where we will stand up and be counted.

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