Topic: Loan Watch 2016-17

[TepidT2O]

Nice that Mama is doing well, but I do think there's an element within the press of trying to build him up to try and create a narrative that we were badly wrong in not playing him. I'm pretty sure they'll be annoyed we haven't been dropping many points since he started playing for Palace, as that would have been a nice argument to have.

If it adds £5m to his price tag so be it..

[El Lobo]

If it adds £5m to his price tag so be it..

It'd be nice, but then that fat slob has already started with the 'he's good, just not sure we can afford him' bollocks.

[rowan_d]

He's too good for Palace anyway imo

Surely better teams will be after him in the summer

[wemmick]

Markovic with some tidy play on Hulls first

Saw just a bit of that match. Markovic is finally looking like a PL player. Showing some quality and good tenacity at Hull.

[elsewhere]

Does Palace have an option to buy Sakho in the end of the year?

If not i can see them paying 25m or so but i wonder if Sakho would fancy being there, he won't be short of options.

[paulrazor]

Does Palace have an option to buy Sakho in the end of the year?

If not i can see them paying 25m or so but i wonder if Sakho would fancy being there, he won't be short of options.

no

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-demand-30m-mamadou-sakho-12834436

If it adds £5m to his price tag so be it..

how about 10

link above

[elsewhere]

I think we asked for 20m in January and they said no, now rumors suggest we will be asking for 30m

[SwordInYourGut]

It'll be so much better if we could just keep him. No, he isn't the best CB in the world but are there really better CBs that teams are willing to sell? Sakho is a level above Gibson and Keane and they are being chased by pretty much every club in the country if you believe the reports.

[Bob Sacamano]

It'll be so much better if we could just keep him. No, he isn't the best CB in the world but are there really better CBs that teams are willing to sell? Sakho is a level above Gibson and Keane and they are being chased by pretty much every club in the country if you believe the reports.

Agreed. Although a Sakho plus 20 million for Virgil of Southampton might be a nice deal for both teams.

[rickardinho1]

It'll be so much better if we could just keep him. No, he isn't the best CB in the world but are there really better CBs that teams are willing to sell? Sakho is a level above Gibson and Keane and they are being chased by pretty much every club in the country if you believe the reports.

Individually, yes Sakho is probably a more skillful CB than Keane.

However, I can see why some would consider Keane to be a more attractive option of the two though:

For starters, Keane isn't injury prone like Sakho, so you could actually have the stability to build a partnership at CB which is very important and has never really been possible with Sakho in and out of the lineup.

I'm a big fan of Sakho's, but Keane also strikes me as being less unpredictable than Sakho. That is simply a matter of style, but personally from CB's I'd prefer someone who is rock solid and composed, as I think that spreads calm in the rest of the team. Keane seems to have that "calmness" that Sakho lacks at times - though that isn't to say that Sakho can't be a good player in his own right.

Lastly, on a very minor point, Keane is English which is good for the quota.

Note that I'm not necessarily saying that we should sign Keane, I was just addressing the Keane vs Sakho comparison. That said, it wouldn't really disappoint me if we signed Keane because he does look like a young CB with a lot of promise who likes to tackle on the front foot. Could be a decent signing if Van Dijk doesn't materialize (which would obviously be the ideal signing).

[Gods_Left_Boot]

It'll be so much better if we could just keep him. No, he isn't the best CB in the world but are there really better CBs that teams are willing to sell? Sakho is a level above Gibson and Keane and they are being chased by pretty much every club in the country if you believe the reports.

I do agree with you from a talent standpoint, as I really rate Mama as a defender, but the whole situation with him has nothing to do with talent. Klopp thinks he can't be relied upon for other reasons, and by all accounts he's not going to change his mind on the matter. If that's the case, being able to sell Sakho at a profit and invest that money into a player that can actually contribute to the squad will be a bit of a coup.

[SwordInYourGut]

I'll give you injury prone but you can't honestly believe Sakho's isn't 'composed' or 'calm'. Even Fat Sam has been raving about Sakho's calm distribution from the back. And who cares if he is English, there are only four spots for association trained players, we already have Henderson, Lallana, Milner, Clyne.

[Aceldama]

there are only four spots for association trained players, we already have Henderson, Lallana, Milner, Clyne.

It's four association trained + four club trained in European competition but in domestic competition it's eight association trained.

[rickardinho1]

I'll give you injury prone but you can't honestly believe Sakho's isn't 'composed' or 'calm'. Even Fat Sam has been raving about Sakho's calm distribution from the back. And who cares if he is English, there are only four spots for association trained players, we already have Henderson, Lallana, Milner, Clyne.

Please note the exact words I used:

I'm a big fan of Sakho's, but Keane also strikes me as being less unpredictable than Sakho. That is simply a matter of style, but personally from CB's I'd prefer someone who is rock solid and composed, as I think that spreads calm in the rest of the team. Keane seems to have that "calmness" that Sakho lacks at times - though that isn't to say that Sakho can't be a good player in his own right.

What I meant was that he can have his moments where he looks a bit clumsy in tackles or on the ball, hence why I said: "that is simply a matter of style" (and NOT a matter of quality). Looks can be deceiving though and Sakho is a very good CB despite there being a gangly awkwardness about his movement.

Please note that I am a huge fan of Sakho and even went as far as to say he was one of the best in the league (next to Koscielny) 12 months ago.

Anyways, the main point I was trying to make is that his fitness issues (as well as whatever off-field issues he has) don't exactly make him a reliable CB to build your defense around, and if you look at all the best Premier League teams the one constant is that they all had strong and relatively consistent CB partnerships (eg. Ferdinand-Vidic, Terry-Carvalho, Hyypia-Carragher, Adams-Keown, etc)

[TepidT2O]

Sakho's not so good when he has time to think (in my opinion anyway)....

Under siege I think he's great ...

[PeterTheRed ...]

Saw just a bit of that match. Markovic is finally looking like a PL player. Showing some quality and good tenacity at Hull.

Yeah, good to see that. Even if he doesn't impress Klopp enough in the summer to keep him, we will get some decent money back for him.

[elsewhere]

Who is that Keane kid you guys are talking about?

[rickardinho1]

Who is that Keane kid you guys are talking about?

Michael Keane, Burnley's CB

[joekim87]

Totally random I know but I'm quite a fan of Andy Carroll. Such a pity he never became a hit with us. I hope he stays fit and goes to Russia in 2018. Could be a real weapon for England (Kane, Vardy, Carroll).

[mrantarctica]

Sakho's not so good when he has time to think (in my opinion anyway)....

Under siege I think he's great ...

To be honest, they don't exactly play expansively. When you play a low block and just try to hang on in most games and steal a goal, then naturally defending just becomes some kind of desperation and determination exercise. Credit is due for that much at least. In a different style where he'd be expected to spend most of the game distributing incisively and confidently, producing very few errors on or off the ball, and mopping up the 2-3 chances (particularly on the counter) that the opposition might get per half, then it becomes a different type of challenge - one that is much harder to appear good in.

I reckon he deserves credit for going there and playing well, applying himself well to the system and making the most of it. I don't know that you can necessarily conclude that he's a top defender because of it however, and that in a different system (ours) that he'd be equally world class/effective.

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah, good to see that. Even if he doesn't impress Klopp enough in the summer to keep him, we will get some decent money back for him.

Is it me, or would Markovic be an excellent understudy for the Lallana position? He's not the winger we thought he would be, but his technique, pace, intelligence, and work-rate is a great fit for that position I think.

[cdav]

Can anyone see any of the loaned out players realistically coming back and being part of the squad next season? We've got Sakho, Markovic, Wisdom, Flanagan and Ward who I would consider first teamers loaned out (maybe also Ryan Kent?)- I just can't see us keeping any of them but we should still get good fees. We supposedly want £30m for Sakho and we should get decent money for Markovic, Ward and Flanagan.

[Titi Camara]

Mamadou Sakho - Gone
Cameron Brannagan - Gone
Jon Flanagan - Gone
Andre Wisdom - Gone
Lazar Markovic - Gone

Ryan Kent - 100% Retained
Danny Ward - 100% Retained
Allan - 100% Retained (dependent on permits)

Pedro Chirivella - In the balance, may well leave if a decent offer came in.
Ryan Fulton - In the balance, may well leave if a decent offer came in.

Jack Dunn - Given his age I think he'll be allowed to leave
Lloyd Jones - Potentially another loan.
Brooks Lennon - Remain on loan.
Taiwo Awoniyi - I literally have no idea who he is?

[pezzzer]

Totally random I know but I'm quite a fan of Andy Carroll. Such a pity he never became a hit with us. I hope he stays fit and goes to Russia in 2018. Could be a real weapon for England (Kane, Vardy, Carroll).

Honestly mate its a massive no from me. They can keep the coke snorting clugger for  the 2-3 years before his inevitable melt down. He had potential but I fear football is secondary to his lifestyle.

[rickardinho1]

Can anyone see any of the loaned out players realistically coming back and being part of the squad next season? We've got Sakho, Markovic, Wisdom, Flanagan and Ward who I would consider first teamers loaned out (maybe also Ryan Kent?)- I just can't see us keeping any of them but we should still get good fees. We supposedly want £30m for Sakho and we should get decent money for Markovic, Ward and Flanagan.

Of those on loan currently I don't think anyone is likely to stick around next season, though Kent might be in with a shot if he can impress in preseason.

GK
Bogdan - sell
Ward - A loan to a PL club would continue his good progression. Aberdeen (Scotland) --> Huddersfield (Championship) --> PL
Fulton - loan again

DEF
Sakho - sell (£20-30m?)
Flanagan - sell, as he doesn't appear to have a future at the club with Trent ahead of him now.
Wisdom - sell

MID
Chirivella - He needs to continue getting games so another loan would probably be ideal
Allan - Loan again, or keep him as squad DM if he can qualify for a work permit.
Brannagan - Loan, or sell if a good offer is received

FWD
Kent - Hard to tell, could have a place at RW in the squad, but up to Klopp to assess in preseason
Markovic - Sell
Dunn - Sell
Awoniyi - Sell

Current squad
Gomez, Trent, Grujic, and Woodburn seem to be the only youngsters who are next to certain to stick around next season (with Wilson next on that list).

Beyond those 4 there are a few players in the current squad who could probably benefit from more regular football, such as Randall, Ejaria, Ojo, or Wilson. It also wouldn't surprise me to see the club sell Stewart, Ojo, or Randall with the right offers.

[Titi Camara]

Randall

Another I think will be allowed to leave if the right offer comes in. Fallen down the order, with no clear route back to the first team it would mean accepting reserve team football for the foreseeable future.

I think he'll personally be looking to jump rather than be pushed. Could make a very astute purchase for someone in the long term a bit lower down the league but I'm just not sure he's up to the levels Klopp requires.

[redgriffin73]

Goal for Markovic last night, seems to be doing pretty well for Hull right now.

[TepidT2O]

Goal for Markovic last night, seems to be doing pretty well for Hull right now.

Apparently we want £16m...

If he keeps on like this, we might get it..

[paulrazor]

Apparently we want £16m...

If he keeps on like this, we might get it..

need them to stay up to have a chance of them forking out

[dakid]

Not being funny mate but did you watch the game.

Sakho was pretty peripheral Chelsea absolutely dominated the game. Palace had a day when all their Christmases came together especially first half. Chelsea tore them apart, they constantly got to the byeline and pulled it back and the ball time and time gain whizzed across the six yard box or when Chelsea players got there first it hit Hennessey.

I am a big fan of Sakho but it wasn't a game to showcase his talents. On another day Chelsea score four or five.

If you were looking for a standout player for Palace then Zaha was head and shoulders above the rest. Fat Sam gets a bad press on here but he has done wonders with Zaha. He is beginning to stay on his feet and is actually starting to show a bit of desire.

Wonders with Zaha? Zaha was having a great season before Sam arrived mate. Je was also getting more assists before Sam. His form then is why Southgate met with him in December was trying to get him to play for england.

[Jake]

Agent Mama does it again.

Can't wait for him to come home to the Liverpool country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh80Op9iWMI

[joekim87]

Surely Klopp is a little considering bringing Sahko back... Maybe even Martin Kelly ;p

[Fromola]

The Sakho thing so frustrating. He's the best defender in the league.

[SlowRap]

That block he made to keep it at 1-0 was so crucial if Arsenal got one back at that stage it would've been a different game. I'm struggling to forgive Klopp for freezing out my favourite player for ages and throwing away us challenging for the title with Chelsea along with it. So so frustrating

[El Lobo]

That block he made to keep it at 1-0 was so crucial if Arsenal got one back at that stage it would've been a different game. I'm struggling to forgive Klopp for freezing out my favourite player for ages and throwing away us challenging for the title with Chelsea along with it. So so frustrating

Aye, Sakho is the sole difference between where we are and competing for the title

Fucking hell.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Aye, Sakho is the sole difference between where we are and competing for the title

Fucking hell.

To be fair, one of Sakho, Lovren or Matip playing the minutes that Klavan or Lucas have this season would likely see us winning more points out of those games.

But it wouldn't have been the difference between where we are and a title challenge and it certainly isn't Klopp's fault.

It's strange how people can admit he's helped damage our season for the second year in a row yet still want him back.
 

[SlowRap]

Aye, Sakho is the sole difference between where we are and competing for the title

Fucking hell.

We're the top scorers in the league, scoring isn't a problem but we concede - the games Lucas and Klavan played at CB where we dropped points Sakho I believe would have helped.

[Pistolero]

This post from lamonti in last nights premier league thread sums uo the Sakho situation for me...

Mostly the Sakho chat is driven by Sky/BT commentators, including Carragher, bigging him up all the live long day because he's putting in last ditch challenges over a neat sequence of games for Palace (who were really excellent tonight). They're the same ones who couldn't give him anything more than a backhanded compliment about him being "ungainly but effective" while at Liverpool.

We all saw him over the last few seasons: he could be great, but he could also be absolutely all over the place. We all know that Liverpool play nothing like Palace, where the centre backs are much more exposed. We also know that the last 5 or 6 games have gone great, but what about the 2 or 3 it takes him to get back up to speed after his fairly regular injuries.

It wasn't his quality on the pitch that put him out of the squad, it was him taking supplements that may or may not have been illegal without asking the club, it was him missing rehab sessions and training sessions and whatever else he did to piss off Klopp. And perhaps most importantly, it's his clear inability to actually take responsibility for it. First it's go out on loan, no I'll stay thanks. Then it's the midnight snapchats, or the most recent interview – “I was late for training, something that happens everywhere. I paid a fine and I do not know what else I can do" – at no point does it appear that the penny has dropped for him. He should either be saying either nothing at all in public, or managing to show some contrition, even if he has to fake it.

The weirdest thing about it is some LFC fans, real diehard Sakhoistas, and even some journalists trusting Sakho over Klopp on this. Klopp's not infallible but he's drawn his line with Sakho and he's where the buck stops.

[El Lobo]

We're the top scorers in the league, scoring isn't a problem but we concede - the games Lucas and Klavan played at CB where we dropped points Sakho I believe would have helped.

Aye I'd have preferred him to, but you're barking up the wrong forest if you think Sakho would have solved many of our problems today. In a lot of those games where we've completely lost composure, I really don't see how one of Sakhos mad five minutes would have helped. We'd probably be a bit closer to confirming top four, a bit more comfortable in the top 3 maybe. But challenging for the title? Nah, cant see it.

And besides, the whole point isn't that he's not a good defender its that he fucked around a number of times and the manager had enough.

[paulrazor]

i have decided to look at this as a win win scenario

Sakho doesnt come back we will get a lot of money

if he does so be it. we still have a more than decent defender on the books