Author Topic: Tony Pulis has left Stoke (and Palace now)  (Read 60615 times)

Offline exiledintheUSA

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #160 on: May 21, 2013, 09:59:08 pm »
Tony Pulis's Stoke finished 12th in the Premier League 5 years ago. Dortmund finished 13th in the Bundesliga that year.

Stoke have had a net spend of £80 million in the last 5 years. Borussia Dortmund have had a net spend of £0.7 million in the last 5 years.

Stoke have spent in total £88.6 million in the last 5 years. Borussia Dortmund spent £60.4 million in the same time.

In this time Stoke have bought Dave Kitson for £5.5 million. Dortmund have bought Lewandowski for £4 million.

Since then Stoke have won nothing and averaged 13th position. Dortmund have averaged 5th and have won the league twice.

It's amazing how different transfer's can pan out!

But Dortmund didn't have to play on a wet night in Stoke.
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Offline kennedy81

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #161 on: May 21, 2013, 10:02:34 pm »
Tony Pulis's Stoke finished 12th in the Premier League 5 years ago. Dortmund finished 13th in the Bundesliga that year.

Stoke have had a net spend of £80 million in the last 5 years. Borussia Dortmund have had a net spend of £0.7 million in the last 5 years.

Stoke have spent in total £88.6 million in the last 5 years. Borussia Dortmund spent £60.4 million in the same time.

In this time Stoke have bought Dave Kitson for £5.5 million. Dortmund have bought Lewandowski for £4 million.

Since then Stoke have won nothing and averaged 13th position. Dortmund have averaged 5th and have won the league twice.

It's amazing how different transfer's can pan out!
to be fair most club's spending/success ratio wouldn't look good compared to Dortmund's, ours included.

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #162 on: May 21, 2013, 10:03:15 pm »
to be fair if you compare almost all teams to Dortmund, they'll look a bit silly (us incl)
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
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Offline B0151?

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #163 on: May 21, 2013, 10:06:28 pm »
you don't even need the comparison with dortmund to see that they have spent massive amounts of money to go backwards (in the prem) under pulis

Offline LanceLink!!!!!

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #164 on: May 21, 2013, 10:07:40 pm »
Klopp for Stoke then?

Offline redforlife

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #165 on: May 21, 2013, 10:09:09 pm »
Rafa favourite with the bookies to take over  :o

He's also favourite for the Napoli and PSG jobs
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Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #166 on: May 21, 2013, 10:29:07 pm »
to be fair most club's spending/success ratio wouldn't look good compared to Dortmund's, ours included.

I know just showing the difference some choices can make to the outcome. Obviously Dortmund are exceptional at what they do. But no reason people can't follow suit.
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Offline FernandoSusoLFC

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #167 on: May 21, 2013, 10:32:31 pm »
He's also favourite for the Napoli and PSG jobs

Obviously going to take over all 3 jobs.

Offline tommy LFC

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #168 on: May 21, 2013, 10:39:30 pm »
Now that Pulis has left Stoke, since Arsenal last won a trophy the other 91 league clubs have changed manager.

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Offline riismeister

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #169 on: May 21, 2013, 11:32:11 pm »


..for the beautiful game. Hopefully he signs with Everton.

Offline 81a

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #170 on: May 22, 2013, 12:14:14 am »
Deserves more credit than he is going to get. Took them into the Premiership - Into Europe - And to a Cup Final.

Places Stoke haven't been since the mid-seventies. Dire football but it got results and next manager is going to find it a  hard act to follow.

Trying to turn this Stoke squad into a Swansea type side is more likely to lead to relegation than it is success.

Offline StokieSteve

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #171 on: May 22, 2013, 12:28:39 am »
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/21/tony-pulis-sacking-stoke?CMP=twt_gu
A good article. Tony will go down as a Stoke legend and rightfully so, also his charity work has to be acknowledged. He's not the twat many like to portray. Goodbye Tone, all the best, you deserved a good send off as well.  :'(

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #172 on: May 22, 2013, 12:43:17 am »
Martinez would be an interesting appointment. Finally a chance for him to show that he can push a club on with a bit of money to spend. I can't decide whether he's been conning the media season after season, or he's genuinely done a top job and their relegation was to be expected. Pulis did reasonably well at Stoke, but when you look at some of his signings, you have to wonder if they could have achieved more under a more positive manager.

Kightly £3m, Adam £4m, Butland £6m, N'Zonzi £3m, Shea £3m, Crouch £10m, Palacios £8m, Jones £8m, Whitehead £3m, Huth £5m, Begovic £3m, Tuncay £5m, Kitson £5m, Olofinjana £3m.

That's a selection of Pulis's most notable dealings at Stoke. Some proved to be bargains, but others stand out as signings representing awful value. The average age of Pulis's signings needs to be considered as well. Stoke virtually never get a reasonable fee when they sell these players on. Bit of a low-end O'Neill approach. Overall their net spend under Pulis is close to £75m. Have they achieved enough?

Definitely, most of his buys have been older players, who have little or no resale value, which would be important to a team like Stoke. As I said earlier in the thread, I also think he is sort of a low-end O'Neill. Both have had teams rife with indiscipline, a penchant for largely buying foreign players who have played in the PL (Huth, Begovic), little to no concept of scouting outside of the British Isles, a willingness to overpay for older players (Crouch) and inability to use a full squad.

The lack of value with some buys is notable. Kitson was a club record signing at £5.5m and played 34 games scoring three times. Michael Tonge cost £2m only played 12 games and ended up being sent out on loan five times. Andrew Davies was bought for £1.3m and played twice, while Tom Soares who was once linked with us made only seven appearances for Stoke. Arismendi cost £2.5m during their second PL season and never played a single game for them. Maurice Edu appeared in a single game for Stoke last season, while Jamie Ness never played in one. Matthew Upson played more games on loan for Brighton in 2013, than he did for Stoke in two years. Woodgate was a shadow of his former self and Owen was a waste of space.

The signing of Tuncay seemed to sort of hint at an obvious lack of creativity, but he wasn't given the type of role he needed to thrive in. He would have been a terrific piece for us under Rafa. Kitson was a massive bust, but had been heavily linked with a move to Spurs the season prior. Sorensen was a cracking buy, as were Huth and Begovic. His gambles on troubled figures ended up with mixed results. While Etherington was likely a success, Pennant was a bust and Palacios who seemed at the time like a decent pick-up at £8m, clearly never recovered from personal tragedy.

Deserves more credit than he is going to get. Took them into the Premiership - Into Europe - And to a Cup Final.

Places Stoke haven't been since the mid-seventies. Dire football but it got results and next manager is going to find it a  hard act to follow.

Trying to turn this Stoke squad into a Swansea type side is more likely to lead to relegation than it is success.

Completely agree. However, I think what undid him was the lack of tactical evolution in the team. He made a point of signing older players and playing the same approach, rather than using the FA Cup and Europa League as a means to evolve and aim for something more. Instead they've regressed badly with their owners paying a premium for a large squad of average or past it players, playing a dull style of football that hasn't got them into the upper echelon of the league. I think Stoke's owners will be smart enough to know that they cannot pick someone who is a 180 in terms of approach. They need someone with a bit of vision, who can use next season to pragmatically sift through the team and look to add a bit more invention, but retain a core defensive mindset for the interim.

Offline trembles97

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #173 on: May 22, 2013, 01:23:35 am »
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/21/tony-pulis-sacking-stoke?CMP=twt_gu
A good article. Tony will go down as a Stoke legend and rightfully so, also his charity work has to be acknowledged. He's not the twat many like to portray. Goodbye Tone, all the best, you deserved a good send off as well.  :'(

Great read, and I have to say, he definitely left when he was on top. Yeah, their team as a whole faded towards the end of the season, but they still stayed up relatively comfortably.

Offline Suspect Package.

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #174 on: May 22, 2013, 01:28:16 am »
Thoroughly expect Stoke to be relegated next season now.

They were struggling under Pulis, now add a year of transition...it'd take a very shrewd manager to keep them away from the danger zone.
I'm really hoping Sturridge busts out the wacky dip when he scores.

Offline StokieSteve

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #175 on: May 22, 2013, 01:37:58 am »
Thoroughly expect Stoke to be relegated next season now.

They were struggling under Pulis, now add a year of transition...it'd take a very shrewd manager to keep them away from the danger zone.
Expect or hope? With the right manager, Stoke are more than capable of staying up.

Offline Suspect Package.

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #176 on: May 22, 2013, 02:10:29 am »
Expect or hope? With the right manager, Stoke are more than capable of staying up.

Expect.

With the right manager, Stoke are thoroughly capable of playing good football, and I'd hope you stay up.

But the transition from one to the other is a big ask.

As I said, it'd take a very shrewd manager to either A/ Try to do what Pulis did better than Pulis himself (which no one really wants anyway) or B/ Transition your team to a more positive style of football with a more expansive approach.  E.g. I could imagine Martinez moving too fast trying to do B with disastrous results. Equally appointing some experienced journeyman like Mark Hughes or Martin O'Neill would be the wrong idea.


Essentially what I'm saying is that sometimes you have to go backwards before you go forwards.  Unfortunately when you finished a season on around 40 points and flirted with relegation, going further backwards possibly means being a relegation candidate.

So IMO you'll need to make a very good appointment to keep you away from danger in a season of transition.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 02:31:20 am by Suspect Package. »
I'm really hoping Sturridge busts out the wacky dip when he scores.

Offline StokieSteve

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #177 on: May 22, 2013, 02:22:45 am »
Fair points mate. I'm expecting a relegation scrap to be honest, but expecting us to scrape through.

Expecting or hoping? Both  ;D

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #178 on: May 22, 2013, 02:26:33 am »
Fair points mate. I'm expecting a relegation scrap to be honest, but expecting us to scrape through.

Expecting or hoping? Both  ;D

Can't help but feel Steve Clarke would have been a great appointment for you a season ago.

Sadly that boat has sailed, need to find someone in the same vein.
I'm really hoping Sturridge busts out the wacky dip when he scores.

Offline dosx

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Re: Tony Pulis to leave Stoke
« Reply #179 on: May 22, 2013, 04:21:18 am »
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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #180 on: May 22, 2013, 06:40:13 am »
Can't help but feel Steve Clarke would have been a great appointment for you a season ago.

Sadly that boat has sailed, need to find someone in the same vein.
Steve Bould wouldn't be too bad in my opinion, someone like Pako (yes our Pako) would be a shrewd appointment as well.
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Offline BigMarcs

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #181 on: May 22, 2013, 06:52:10 am »
Thank fuck hes gone. His team play the worst football, I dont think I've ever watched more than 10 minutes of one of their matches. They have the potential to do well, they just have to completely revamp the team and get the right manager in. I would be looking at Di Matteo.
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Offline 7777

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #182 on: May 22, 2013, 07:11:07 am »
But Dortmund didn't have to play on a wet night in Stoke.

Ha, every other week!!

Offline DanA

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #183 on: May 22, 2013, 07:30:25 am »
Gee their list is in bad shape. Not bad players but Begovic was invaluable to them and if Butland doesn't hit the ground running they're in trouble. Way too many players nudging 30 too.

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Offline Max_powers

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #184 on: May 22, 2013, 08:13:00 am »
No.      Position   Player
1      GK   Asmir Begović
2      DF   Geoff Cameron
4      DF   Robert Huth
6      MF   Glenn Whelan
7      MF   Jermaine Pennant
8      MF   Wilson Palacios
9      FW   Kenwyne Jones
11      FW   Mamady Sidibé
12      DF   Marc Wilson
13      MF   Maurice Edu
14      MF   Jamie Ness
15      MF   Steven N'Zonzi
16      MF   Charlie Adam
17      DF   Ryan Shawcross (captain)
18      MF   Dean Whitehead
19      FW   Jonathan Walters
20      DF   Matthew Upson
21      MF   Michael Kightly
22      MF   Brek Shea
24      MF   Rory Delap
25      FW   Peter Crouch
26      MF   Matthew Etherington
27      GK   Carlo Nash
28      DF   Andy Wilkinson
29      GK   Thomas Sørensen
30      DF   Ryan Shotton
33      FW   Cameron Jerome
36      MF   Matthew Lund
38      MF   Florent Cuvelier
––      GK   Jack Butland


That is an atrocious squad to have if a manager wants to play football. What the owners need to do is a large scale Fiorentina style overhaul. Dross out Quality in. They also need to give the new manager around 30 million or so to pretty much build a new team.

Offline Saint Kopite

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #185 on: May 22, 2013, 08:31:21 am »
Only Begovic, Butland, Cameron, Shawcross, Huth, Wilson, Nzonzi, Kightly and may be Jones are good enough for a team aiming to be in top half in that squad.
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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #186 on: May 22, 2013, 01:34:19 pm »
No.      Position   Player
1      GK   Asmir Begović
2      DF   Geoff Cameron
4      DF   Robert Huth
6      MF   Glenn Whelan
7      MF   Jermaine Pennant
8      MF   Wilson Palacios
9      FW   Kenwyne Jones
11      FW   Mamady Sidibé
12      DF   Marc Wilson
13      MF   Maurice Edu
14      MF   Jamie Ness
15      MF   Steven N'Zonzi
16      MF   Charlie Adam
17      DF   Ryan Shawcross (captain)
18      MF   Dean Whitehead
19      FW   Jonathan Walters
20      DF   Matthew Upson
21      MF   Michael Kightly
22      MF   Brek Shea
24      MF   Rory Delap
25      FW   Peter Crouch
26      MF   Matthew Etherington
27      GK   Carlo Nash
28      DF   Andy Wilkinson
29      GK   Thomas Sørensen
30      DF   Ryan Shotton
33      FW   Cameron Jerome
36      MF   Matthew Lund
38      MF   Florent Cuvelier
––      GK   Jack Butland


That is an atrocious squad to have if a manager wants to play football. What the owners need to do is a large scale Fiorentina style overhaul. Dross out Quality in. They also need to give the new manager around 30 million or so to pretty much build a new team.

But that's a 30 man squad, and six of those players are out of contract at the end of the season (you omitted michael Owen) then there are several others who barely feature at all (edu, ness and palacios who probably are pretty keen to leave) Then there are a couple of players who only have a year left on their contract, and should be fairly inexpensive to shift. (jones, sorenson etc) Add that to the surgery they did to their squad already this year, and they should have a substantially reduced wage bill and the following team squad

GK: Begovic, Butland,
FB: Cameron, Wilson, Wilkinson, Shotton
CB: Huth Shawcross
CM: Adam, Whelan, Nzonzi,
WM: Kightly, etherington, Shea,
FW: Walters.

(I don't know who lund or cuevellier are but they're probably not great)  As I mentioned above thread, that's not great, but it's not bad either, but this talk of rafa is insane. It's the sort of job that might appeal to him before he took over at valencia. It's a job for a hungry manager on the way up, looking to make a name for himself. It a job roughly equivalent in terms of resources and stability to the Everton job, and an astute manager could loot spain and europe and build a pretty handy team for the money available. And look where a couple of years at everton got their current manager.....

Offline MagicHat

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #187 on: May 22, 2013, 01:38:25 pm »
Florent Cuvelier is a talented Belgian playmaker, captain when the U19's got to the finals.

Offline Reheat Red

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #188 on: May 22, 2013, 01:38:57 pm »
Butland will be wasted if Begovic stays.

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #189 on: May 22, 2013, 02:19:13 pm »
I think he did very well to keep them in the Premiership for the first couple of seasons but the continued rise in spending for the same or less return (this season) is not progress. Often in football you either go forwards or backwards, sitting in mid-table year in year out is does not often work out for you. You've got to compete and I think he couldn't take them further. Next appointment is a big one because they want someone who'll take them forwards but the squad that guy gets is very much a Pulis squad.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #190 on: May 22, 2013, 02:25:52 pm »
I think he did very well to keep them in the Premiership for the first couple of seasons but the continued rise in spending for the same or less return (this season) is not progress.
This is spot on. He did really well in the first few years with a team that was worth more than the sum of its parts and wasn't particularly expensively assembled. It was when he started spending £10m on Crouch and £8m on Palacios and them getting no better or even worse that the problems start arising. He achieved the same but spent a lot more to do it.
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Offline Paul JH

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #191 on: May 22, 2013, 02:27:10 pm »
Can't stand the man. Runs up and down the touchline like a mental P.E Teacher and his teams are just thugs. Shit manager.
Also looks like a moron in his little cap and trackie.

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Offline johnny74

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #192 on: May 22, 2013, 02:54:14 pm »
http://m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/21/tony-pulis-sacking-stoke?CMP=twt_gu
A good article. Tony will go down as a Stoke legend and rightfully so, also his charity work has to be acknowledged. He's not the twat many like to portray. Goodbye Tone, all the best, you deserved a good send off as well.  :'(

Jimmy Savile did a lot for charity as well.

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #193 on: May 22, 2013, 03:43:29 pm »
Jimmy Savile did a lot for charity as well.
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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #194 on: May 22, 2013, 03:52:26 pm »
Come on Bill, you know it makes sense.

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #195 on: May 22, 2013, 04:23:38 pm »
Now that Pulis has left Stoke, since Arsenal last won a trophy the other 91 league clubs have changed manager.

I'm pretty sure that the last manager that affected that stat was Moyes/Ferguson wasn't it? Pulis took over Stoke in 2006. Arsenal's last trophy was the FA Cup in 2005
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Offline lfc_col

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #196 on: May 22, 2013, 04:53:42 pm »
What about Redknapp to stoke  ;)
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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #197 on: May 22, 2013, 05:01:40 pm »
What about Redknapp to stoke  ;)

While hes at a Billionaires club who love him and his target is to be in the top 2 of the championship at best?

Rather like giving up a job being Megan Fox's fuckmonkey to wanking off a man in a string vest as he eats spaghetti from a can

If you don't limit yourself with bad thoughts, you can fly

Jurgen Klopp

Offline MolbyLovesGravlax

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #198 on: May 22, 2013, 05:43:54 pm »
Hope, for their sake, they realize you can't just hire a manager, buy a couple of players and be Baracelona. They need to be realistic, find an experienced manager who knows how to get teams playing multiple ways and start the process, combined with someone finding them better players slowly over multiple windows.
They can certainly be a better footballing team next year, but if they are totally unstoke-like like they will be relegated in my opinion.
"This is Anfield, this is what they do." Thomas Tuchel

@dgljones

Offline Cruiser

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Re: Tony Pulis has left Stoke
« Reply #199 on: May 22, 2013, 07:49:51 pm »
Would be a great manager for Harlequins.
If he retires I'll eat my fucking cock.

Great anti climax for those expecting jizzihno....