Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!

[Son of Spion]

I'll never forgive Partridge for the LCF v Forest

Ah yes. Giving Forest a game-deciding penalty for a foul outside the box and disallowing a fabulous Terry McDermott goal for a non-existent handball.

Tommy Smith later said "Partridge should be shot."

[Eeyore]

That’s a clear bastardisation of my sentiment, but it’s gained legs…like me apparently being in cahoots with the PGMOL andme saying Tomkins is biased.

Genuinely amazed that my position on this stuff is regarded as so outlandish that it’s led many posters to be creative with my posts just to show how wrong I am.



Footnote: during the Newcastle game last night I posted a comment about the Everton penalty and was launched at by a poster because of this thread. Bit grim, I thought. I’ve always tried to be sound in my dealings on RAWK even when I disagree. I contest the argument not the poster (I think).

The bolded bit was me. I have gone back and checked the thread and I had confused you with someone else. So I would like to take that back and apologise.

[Bobinhood]

The referees from 20 years ago are the ones who are running the PGMOL. The likes of Riley, Webb and Atkinson.

As for the refereeing of today it isn't the players that have changed and become less violent it is the way the rules are being enforced that has changed. Unless it is Taylor at Old Trafford where these challenges the ones you said he gave a red for are mere bookings.

Well Kieta sure but the substantial Pixalating in the Casimero picture unfortunately means you cant see with the naked eye that his foot and that ankle actually not touching. Obviously if they were really touching the opponents face would have turned bright green but its stuck on pasty white. so hes offside no foul.

[Fitzy.]

The bolded bit was me. I have gone back and checked the thread and I had confused you with someone else. So I would like to take that back and apologise.

Fair play

[alonsoisared]

Genuine question, I might've missed it, but what is the source for the Anthony Taylor being from a family of United fans? A Google search only brings up a link to the S*n which I'm obviously not going to click on and I've been well taught to never trust a word printed in that rag. The only other articles I found was the club chairman talking about how he still buys an Altrincham season ticket every year and regularly helps the club out in various ways.

[Yorkykopite]

Taylor isn't subconsciously biased in your opinion because he hasn't managed to turn around fixtures in which United were expected not to win and generally massively outplayed.

Well played Sir Eeyore. It seems as though Taylor is biased towards Manchester United despite their absolutely wretched record when he is the referee! And now you will explain how we know the world to be banana shaped.   

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well played Sir Eeyore. It seems as though Taylor is biased towards Manchester United despite their absolutely wretched record when he is the referee! And now you will explain how we know the world to be banana shaped.   

Didn't Manchester Untied get a European record number of penalties for a couple of seasons?

From what I saw, most of them looked pretty generous to say the least..

[Jm55]

Genuine question, I might've missed it, but what is the source for the Anthony Taylor being from a family of United fans? A Google search only brings up a link to the S*n which I'm obviously not going to click on and I've been well taught to never trust a word printed in that rag. The only other articles I found was the club chairman talking about how he still buys an Altrincham season ticket every year and regularly helps the club out in various ways.

There isn’t one, nor is there one for Tierney supposedly being from a family of United season ticket holders.

It’s a perfectly valid point to make that referees from Greater Manchester shouldn’t be refereeing Liverpool matches, especially against Manchester based clubs.

Anything more than that is just speculation unless anyone is able to show me something more concrete.

[FlashGordon]

Well played Sir Eeyore. It seems as though Taylor is biased towards Manchester United despite their absolutely wretched record when he is the referee! And now you will explain how we know the world to be banana shaped.   

Are you going to deal with any other parts of his post? You seem to be avoiding any of the actual detail because it seriously undermines your stance on how tough Taylor has been on United.

[Eeyore]

Well played Sir Eeyore. It seems as though Taylor is biased towards Manchester United despite their absolutely wretched record when he is the referee! And now you will explain how we know the world to be banana shaped.   

I am not sure which is more offensive being accused of reading a certain Newspaper or being knighted.

Moving on from the insults. Again it is another example of you completely exaggerating my position and then looking to ridicule it. My position is clear, conscious or subconscious bias leads to more close decisions going for the team the referee favours. Over a season that alters the balance of the League table, especially in close seasons like 13/14, 18/19, and 21-24 when Liverpool lost 3 titles by an aggregate of 4 points in total.   

It is similar to the house edge in roulette. If you back red or black then you have a 48.65% chance of your bet coming in. The house's edge doesn't mean they win every bet. Now compare that to the games you highlighted. Arsenal away twice, Spurs away, Chelsea away, Villa away under Emery and home to Liverpool in 21-22. In those games they had far less of a chance of winning than red or black.

Taylor showing a bias towards United isn't going to turn them into a better team than the opposition when they are playing the top teams away from home or at home to Liverpool. For me, he is a biased official, not the world's greatest magician. United didn't win those games because of Taylor's lack of bias. They lost or drew because the other teams were far better than them and expected to win.

A good example of bias in action would be Coote at the weekend. He gave the vast majority of tight decisions to Brighton an example being 20 fouls to 6. He allowed Brighton to time waste at 0-1 but turned into a ball boy at 2-1. He ignored a clear pullback on Darwin but booked both VVD and Macca for far more innocuous challenges.

Now the Yorky test is Coote can't be biased because Liverpool won. For me he was biased but that bias was unable to make up for the quality difference and home advantage that Liverpool had. That is the same with Taylor. United are an average side with a poor manager. Taylor giving them more marginal decisions against better opposition isn't going to change the outcome of games they get outplayed in.

You also have the VAR intervening twice in those 10 games you mention to correct terrible decisions Taylor had made in those games.

[Yorkykopite]

Are you going to deal with any other parts of his post? You seem to be avoiding any of the actual detail because it seriously undermines your stance on how tough Taylor has been on United.

I deal with it all the time. He ignores my posts and moves on to another subject. The only actual evidence he's so far produced to indicate bias in Taylor is from the Sun newspaper. That's not worth bothering with. In any case Taylor is a season-ticket holder at Altrincham - something that poor old Eeyore implies is evidence that he's really a Man United fan. I don't know how you deal with arguments like that. They make no sense.  The "actual detail" he presented in his latest post is... is what? The post starts off with a blatant untruth. Taylor has given two red cards to United players in the last ten games, not zero as Eeyore says. It's the ref who issues red cards, not VAR, as everyone should know. He's also awarded United twice as many yellows as their opponents, something which Eeyore waves away with a lame explanation that amounts to "he's actually very lenient". You can't argue with someone like this. It's so tedious.....

[Eeyore]

Genuine question, I might've missed it, but what is the source for the Anthony Taylor being from a family of United fans? A Google search only brings up a link to the S*n which I'm obviously not going to click on and I've been well taught to never trust a word printed in that rag. The only other articles I found was the club chairman talking about how he still buys an Altrincham season ticket every year and regularly helps the club out in various ways.

There were two anecdotal examples of RAWK posters having heard from sources about Taylor and his family. Yorky wasn't having that. Strangely anecdotal incidents like Fitzy's conversation with Atkinson's daughter and even a message on the person next to Fitzy's phone at the game were fine, presumably because they backed up Yorky's view.

I then mentioned that a national newspaper had also reported. I then made it clear which newspaper it was which understandably reduced the weight of my comment.

For me the interview with the Altrincham Chairman was quite strange and was an attempt by United mouthpiece Daniel Taylor to bolster Taylor's impartiality. Although I am sure Yorky will just put it down to incompetence, being a poor journalist or something similar.

[Eeyore]

I deal with it all the time. He ignores my posts and moves on to another subject. The only actual evidence he's so far produced to indicate bias in Taylor is from the Sun newspaper. That's not worth bothering with. In any case Taylor is a season-ticket holder at Altrincham - something that poor old Eeyore implies is evidence that he's really a Man United fan. I don't know how you deal with arguments like that.

You should know how to deal with arguments like that Yorky. The reason is that those arguments are entirely your inventions.

The evidence for subconscious bias is that grew up in an environment in which Liverpool FC is hated. He grew up in an area that is vehemently anti-scouse. In the days after days and weeks after the game he will have to live in that area and environment. That is evidence that he may well be subconsciously or consciously biased against Liverpool.

There is also anecdotal evidence from Rob and Andy who had been told about Taylor and his family. I also mentioned that it had been reported in a National newspaper and made it clear which paper it was. That was a statement of fact. 

They make no sense.  The "actual detail" he presented in his latest post is... is what? The post starts off with a blatant untruth. Taylor has given two red cards to United players in the last ten games, not zero as Eeyore says. It's the ref who issues red cards, not VAR, as everyone should know. He's also awarded United twice as many yellows as their opponents, something which Eeyore waves away with a lame explanation that amounts to "he's actually very lenient". You can't argue with someone like this. It's so tedious.....

You should be a politician Yorky. Taylor initially gave yellow cards for two horrific challenges by United players. Without the intervention of VAR they would have remained yellow cards. For the VAR to intervene the referee must have made clear and serious error.

Either knowingly or unknowingly you tried to use two awful clear and obvious errors from Taylor in United's favour as evidence that Taylor isn't biased. We all make mistakes like I did with Fitzy. You acknowledge it apologise and move on. Instead you chose to go all PGMOL and double down and claim I was being untruthful. Shame on you mate I thought you were better than that.

Then we get to your use of 'lenient'. That was used entirely in the context of the Liverpool 5-0 game. a game in which Liverpool effectively had to go into self preservation mode to avoid injury. A game in which Ronaldo dragged Jones to the ground and then kicked him multiple times. The very game in which Keita got stretchered off and Pogba was given a yellow for a potential legbreaker. Only upgraded to a Red after a VAR intervention. That game had 6 of the yellow cards that you keep mentioning. 

[Yorkykopite]

Eeyore, he's just a rotten example if you're looking for Man United favouritism. The stats could hardly be more against you. I'm sure if you went on Red Cafe there'd be a thread on how biased Taylor is against them. Again, I'm not saying that this is proof that he is. Man United have Eeyore's own their fan base too. But it might give you pause if....

Actually it wouldn't. Nothing does.

[Eeyore]

Eeyore, he's just a rotten example if you're looking for Man United favouritism. The stats could hardly be more against you. I'm sure if you went on Red Cafe there'd be a thread on how biased Taylor is against them. Again, I'm not saying that this is proof that he is. Man United have Eeyore's own their fan base too. But it might give you pause if....

Actually it wouldn't. Nothing does.

The question is should Taylor as a Mancunian be doing a Man United v Liverpool game?

[Yorkykopite]

The question is should Taylor as a Mancunian be doing a Man United v Liverpool game?

It depends.

It depends on how representative you are of Liverpool supporters. And how far Red Cafe Eeyores are typically of their fan base. If the answer is very typical then it's a bad idea because it feeds suspicion and grievance, which is never good. You feel he must be biased against us. They feel he tries to prove his neutrality by being biased against them. I think you're both wrong, but sometimes the perception is as important as the reality.

[Yorkykopite]

I have some advice for you though. Apparently Taylor went to Altrincham Grammar school (is that Cheshire?) If I suspected he was a Man United fan, or biased intheir favour, I'd track a few of his school cohort down on LinkedIn and ask a few pointed questions about his allegiances. Build up a dossier. It wouldn't be hard to do.

[Crosby Nick]

I have some advice for you though. Apparently Taylor went to Altrincham Grammar school (is that Cheshire?) If I suspected he was a Man United fan, or biased intheir favour, I'd track a few of his school cohort down on LinkedIn and ask a few pointed questions about his allegiances. Build up a dossier. It wouldn't be hard to do.

Cheshire/Manc borders. Think it might just be in Trafford and therefore Manc. The posh bit of that is Hale/Bowdon where some of the footballers live (I feel like Rob here). Either way it’s incredibly United central.

[Yorkykopite]

Cheshire/Manc borders. Think it might just be in Trafford and therefore Manc. The posh bit of that is Hale/Bowdon where some of the footballers live (I feel like Rob here). Either way it’s incredibly United central.

Fuck off Nick. This is our thread.

[Eeyore]

It depends.

It depends on how representative you are of Liverpool supporters. And how far Red Cafe Eeyores are typically of their fan base. If the answer is very typical then it's a bad idea because it feeds suspicion and grievance, which is never good. You feel he must be biased against us. They feel he tries to prove his neutrality by being biased against them. I think you're both wrong, but sometimes the perception is as important as the reality.

Aargh so it's the fan's fault.

The whole concept of neutral officials isn't because it is fairer. It is just to placate the people you like to brand 'conspiracy nuts'. It doesn't really surprise me though you will go to extraordinary lengths to defend referees.

I mean when Ronaldo dragged Curtis Jones to the floor and aimed multiple kicks at Jones most rational fans blamed Taylor for not sending him off. You my friend had an alternative theory.

A more seasoned pro might have remained on the turf and sought medical attention. I liked his honesty but can't help thinking that if he'd stayed down and shown more signs of physical distress his assailant might have got red.

Referees and the PGMOL can do no wrong. It is my fault and my Manchester counterparts faults that you need neutral officials. Furthermore the reason Ronaldo who you called the assailant by the way didn't get a Red wasn't the fault of Taylor, No it was Curtis Fucking Jones fault for not seeking medical attention.

You are becoming a parody Yorky.

[Eeyore]

Cheshire/Manc borders. Think it might just be in Trafford and therefore Manc. The posh bit of that is Hale/Bowdon where some of the footballers live (I feel like Rob here). Either way it’s incredibly United central.

He is from Wythenshawe which is Manchester. He got a place at Altrincham Grammar School which as you say is across the border in Cheshire.

[Yorkykopite]

Aargh so it's the fan's fault.

The whole concept of neutral officials isn't because it is fairer. It is just to placate the people you like to brand 'conspiracy nuts'. It doesn't really surprise me though you will go to extraordinary lengths to defend referees.

I mean when Ronaldo dragged Curtis Jones to the floor and aimed multiple kicks at Jones most rational fans blamed Taylor for not sending him off. You my friend had an alternative theory.

Referees and the PGMOL can do no wrong. It is my fault and my Manchester counterparts faults that you need neutral officials. Furthermore the reason Ronaldo who you called the assailant by the way didn't get a Red wasn't the fault of Taylor, No it was Curtis Fucking Jones fault for not seeking medical attention.

You are becoming a parody Yorky.

I blamed him too. He's a poor referee. I watched the Arsenal v Man City match which Taylor refereed and it was a shambles. He let far too much go. I think this is his methodology and it encourages fairly brutal play from ruthless sides who know Taylor has a high tolerance for that stuff.

But I can't get through to you on this. You keep calling me an admirer of PGMOL. I'm obviously not. I simply infer ineptitude where you see systematic bias against us. But you never listen to what's being said by people who don't agree with you.

I'm going to talk to Nick in the cricket thread.

[Mister Flip Flop]

Taylor as ref

Webb isn’t even trying to hide his hatred for us

They are just throwing everything at it now to stop us from winning the league.

[Eeyore]

I blamed him too. He's a poor referee. I watched the Arsenal v Man City match which Taylor refereed and it was a shambles. He let far too much go. I think this is his methodology and it encourages fairly brutal play from ruthless sides who know Taylor has a high tolerance for that stuff.

But I can't get through to you on this. You keep calling me an admirer of PGMOL. I'm obviously not. I simply infer ineptitude where you see systematic bias against us. But you never listen to what's being said by people who don't agree with you.

I'm going to talk to Nick in the cricket thread.

You didn't though Yorky you blamed Jones not seeking medical treatment and you blamed the United players.

In all the hullabaloo after the game the one thing that escaped scrutiny was Manchester United's foul play. Match of the Day didn't even show the sending off which was unusual. But six yellows and a red suggests a group of players seriously out of control. The five minutes before the half time break when it must have sunk in that there was absolutely no chance of getting back into the game produced three yellow cards alone. One of them - Ronaldo's - ought to have been a straight red, as I think even he knew. The last time I saw a coward's 'challenge' like that on a prone player was when 'hard man' Vinnie Jones broke Gary Stevens's leg at White Hart Lane. It was fortunate that Mo Salah's second goal came right on the stroke of half time otherwise United's violence might have gone up yet another level.

The second half actually wasn't quite as bad. Pogba's challenge was shocking, but I have a feeling it was directed as much at Solksjaer as Keita. He was obviously using Keita and that's disgusting. But as a team they were reconciled to defeat by then and had become becalmed. It helped of course that our lads made a sensible decision after the 5th to draw the sting from the game and play keep-ball rather than going for the jugular. I think, too, they sensed that the jugular had been slashed already and there was now very little blood pumping through the home side.

But I'd expect consequences now. Someone in authority ought to run a cold eye over what happened and hold Man United to account for the way they lost their discipline. Will such a thing happen? I wouldn't hold your breath.   

There was one person out there the referee whose job it was to keep control of the game. Guess what there is absolutely no criticism of Taylor whatsoever there. You don't even mention him. It was Taylor's job to keep control and to send off the players you freely admit were acting violently. He somehow managed to give Pogba a yellow card for an absolutely brutal challenge on Keita that saw him leave the field on a stretcher. He somehow allowed Ronaldo to stay on for a challenge you compared to Vinnie jones and Gary Stevens.

You are now seemingly perfectly happy for Taylor to be given another chance to allow United to kick the shit out of our players. 

[Yorkykopite]

By god, that's a good post. Did I write that?

[Eeyore]

By god, that's a good post. Did I write that?

I particularly like the criticism of The PGMOL and Anthony Taylor Man United and Curtis Jones.

[Yorkykopite]

I particularly like the criticism of The PGMOL and Anthony Taylor Man United and Curtis Jones.

Err, right. OK.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Err, right. OK.

Did you mention Taylor here? I can't see it - can you point it out at all?

________________________________________________________________________

In all the hullabaloo after the game the one thing that escaped scrutiny was Manchester United's foul play. Match of the Day didn't even show the sending off which was unusual. But six yellows and a red suggests a group of players seriously out of control. The five minutes before the half time break when it must have sunk in that there was absolutely no chance of getting back into the game produced three yellow cards alone. One of them - Ronaldo's - ought to have been a straight red, as I think even he knew. The last time I saw a coward's 'challenge' like that on a prone player was when 'hard man' Vinnie Jones broke Gary Stevens's leg at White Hart Lane. It was fortunate that Mo Salah's second goal came right on the stroke of half time otherwise United's violence might have gone up yet another level.

The second half actually wasn't quite as bad. Pogba's challenge was shocking, but I have a feeling it was directed as much at Solksjaer as Keita. He was obviously using Keita and that's disgusting. But as a team they were reconciled to defeat by then and had become becalmed. It helped of course that our lads made a sensible decision after the 5th to draw the sting from the game and play keep-ball rather than going for the jugular. I think, too, they sensed that the jugular had been slashed already and there was now very little blood pumping through the home side.

But I'd expect consequences now. Someone in authority ought to run a cold eye over what happened and hold Man United to account for the way they lost their discipline. Will such a thing happen? I wouldn't hold your breath.   

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Shouldn't the fella in charge of the game - the guy in authority - have exercised that properly?

You also admit that we had to back off - not score more goals - because we were in fear of being fucked up by United.



Sounds like Taylor did an amazing job there and fully deserves your staunch defence of his impartialness and ability in the way he did absolutely fucking nothing to protect our players and let United kick fuck out of us.

[Eeyore]

Err, right. OK.

Whose job is it to prevent thuggery on the pitch?

Why are the PGMOL giving an official who lost control the last time he officiated between the teams another chance?

The game has so much potential to get heated the Police have brought the kick off forward. United have a history of thuggery in this game. Taylor gave a horrifically weak performance in the City v Arsenal game so why the hell would the PGMOL pick him for this game ?

[DarkOfTheManatee]

Not specifically about us per se, and not sure how reliable Transfermarkt are with injury stats, but according to them Martinez has missed only two games in his Aston Villa career due to injury/illness.

Both against Man City, both in a game that had significant implications for their title chances and where his involvement could've made a vital difference (he's a good goalkeeper, much as I dislike him). There can't be many instances of that happening to a player.

Will be interesting to see if he's back for their must-win home tie against Brentford in a couple of days...

Definitely veering into conspiracy theory with this one (I blame the tension of the title race). But to be fair, from what I've seen of him on the pitch (maybe he's a decent enough guy off it despite everything, a la Richarlison), would I be surprised? Not remotely.

[CHOPPER]

What’s all the fuss about

[GreatEx]

The last couple of pages illustrate the shallowness of using raw numbers to prove a narrative. And it cuts both ways: simply saying "20 fouls to 6 despite X% possession and Y shots vs. Z" doesn't prove anything, nor does "Anthony Taylor has given more cards to MU than their opponent in the last 10 games". You have to watch the games, see what decisions were or weren't made, and how the teams played. I give Eeyore credit for drilling down into the Taylor numbers and exposing their lack of worth. No one who watched the 0-5 could possibly argue that the refereeing was pro-LFC/anti-MU, indeed all parties here have acknowledged at one time or another that MU were out of control and that the referee failed in his duty of care. To then use data from the same match to boost an argument of impartiality, or that if bias exists it must be against MU, is specious in the extreme. The only way for Yorky to recover his dignity is to dissect all the ~700 fouls given for or against LFC this season and determine what a fair aggregate would be.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

What’s all the fuss about

Much ado about Mancs

[Yorkykopite]

The last couple of pages illustrate the shallowness of using raw numbers to prove a narrative. And it cuts both ways: simply saying "20 fouls to 6 despite X% possession and Y shots vs. Z" doesn't prove anything, nor does "Anthony Taylor has given more cards to MU than their opponent in the last 10 games". You have to watch the games, see what decisions were or weren't made, and how the teams played. I give Eeyore credit for drilling down into the Taylor numbers and exposing their lack of worth. No one who watched the 0-5 could possibly argue that the refereeing was pro-LFC/anti-MU, indeed all parties here have acknowledged at one time or another that MU were out of control and that the referee failed in his duty of care. To then use data from the same match to boost an argument of impartiality, or that if bias exists it must be against MU, is specious in the extreme. The only way for Yorky to recover his dignity is to dissect all the ~700 fouls given for or against LFC this season and determine what a fair aggregate would be.

But I agree. Indeed my purpose in the original post was to show exactly that.

I think we all now agree that there is no documentary evidence of Anthony Taylor being a Manchester United supporter - the only 'evidence' offered so far being from the Sun newspaper (a spectacularly faulty 'receipt' to pursue the metaphor above). But we all like statistics so I 'ran the numbers' on Taylor and although they don't conclusively prove anything they might still your anxieties a little.

In the last 10 Premier League games in which Taylor has refereed Man Utd they've won only 2 matches. In those 10 games Taylor has handed out zero red cards to Man United's opponents and two red cards to Man Utd players. He's dished out a royal 26 yellows to Man Utd and just 10 their opponents. We've played them twice in those ten games, both at Old Trafford, and managed to squeak through 9 goals.

As I say, this proves nothing. Statistics alone rarely do. And I grant you it is possible that Liverpool should have scored, say, 12 goals in those two games rather than a mere 9. It's possible that Taylor should have sent off 6 or 8 Man Utd players in those 10 games rather than 2. But, at the very least, if he is a Man Utd fan operating at a high-level of bias for them, you can see from the track record that, still, all is not lost for the weekend. 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

But I agree. Indeed my purpose in the original post was to show exactly that.

You're talking about a man that you, yourself, said didn't take any action on a team that was out of control and kicking another team up and down the park to the extent that a football team could no longer engage in the football game any more in order not to be seriously injured.

[GreatEx]

But I agree. Indeed my purpose in the original post was to show exactly that.

Well done. Now please dissect all the ~700 fouls given for or against LFC this season and determine what a fair aggregate would be.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Well done. Now please dissect all the ~700 fouls given for or against LFC this season and determine what a fair aggregate would be.

It’s an interesting question - according to ‘neutral’ PGMOL officials, Liverpool are one of the dirtiest teams in the league with 356 fouls - despite being second in the league

The only teams dirtier than Liverpool according to our truly neutral refs are

TEAM (League Placing) [Fouls recorded by Neutral referees]

Bournmouth (11th) [397]
Wolves (10th) [370]
Everton (16th) [364]
Palace (14th) [364]
Luton (18th) [359]
Forest (17th) [358]


Then we have Liverpool

Liverpool (2nd) [356]


According to the refs, Liverpool are a dirtier team than Burnley. Of the top 6 clubs (Which Liverpool are apparantly dirtier than) we have

Arsenal (1st) [299]
Man City (3rd) [245]
Villa (4th) [339]
Spurs (5th) [328]
Manchester United (6th) [309]


-----------------------------------------------------

This gets especially interesting, because although Liverpool are supposedly the 7th dirtiest team in the league, they are 17th in the total number of cards (58) - Only three teams have less

Palace (55), Manchester City (48), Arsenal (46)


It gets especially interesting with yellows as you’d expect that one of the dirtiest teams in the league would be picking up one of the highest yellow card tallies, but no - Liverpool are 18th in yellows too.

So Liverpool are one of the dirtiest teams in the league - according to PGMOL, but only got 55 yellow cards - equal with Palace.

ONLY TWO TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE HAVE LESS YELLOW CARDS THAN LIVERPOOL:

Manchester City (48) and Arsenal (46)


------------------------------------------------------------


You’d also expect that a club that was as dirty as Liverpool would be battling to get the ball back as we’re apparantly booting people up and down the park all day - according to PGMOL


But, strangely, no. Liverpool are 4th in the league with possession stats - only three clubs Manchester City (66%), Brighton (61.97%) and Spurs (61.5%) have more possession than Liverpool (60.52%)


===========================================


If we're going off what PGMOL are determining - we're one of the dirtiest teams in the league, but all those fouls barely merit any yellows - we are way down that list and we have less need to foul, with more possession than the vast majority of the league.


We have the most number of (joint) red cards in the league - but we've already gone through how laughable those three red cards were, so no need to dwell on that, but we have the 2nd highest red card tally in the league (per game) (0.17) according to the neutral organisation that refs the league - the one team with a higher stat than that is Burnley (Out of the whole league)


With all this fouling going on and given how dirty Liverpool apparantly are, it's amazing that we've recorded the (joint)second highest goal tally in the league - with Manchester City (Only Arsenal are higher) - and amazingly with us being so apparantly dirty, we have recorded the highest number of shots in the league (572 - with 2nd being Manchester City with 541)


We are 14th with the number of tackles we make in the league - which means per tackle, our 'foul' ratio is absolutely through the roof - surely if we're that bad at tackling, we shoudl have a shit load more yellow cards to reflect our overall dirtiness?

[rob1966]

Cheshire/Manc borders. Think it might just be in Trafford and therefore Manc. The posh bit of that is Hale/Bowdon where some of the footballers live (I feel like Rob here). Either way it’s incredibly United central.

Yeah spot on, it's in Trafford like you say, 5 mins drive from the lovely place that is Wythenshawe

[Draex]

Yeah spot on, it's in Trafford like you say, 5 mins drive from the lovely place that is Wythenshawe

Haha come on Rob you couldn’t get two more different places, if Taylor is a Utd fan he’s defo in the prawn sandwich brigade.

[spider-neil]

Other than the Curtis Jones sending off has there ever been a still frame to send someone off from VAR before or since?