Topic: Premier League / FA Cup SF Fixtures 20th - 25th April

[Elzar]

Watching football highlights and then Bargain Hunt made me realise that Chris Wilder looks like Phillip Serrell.

[jepovic]

VAR isn't going anywhere. Whilst I agree with you that it should be binned off, it's not going to be so a waste of time calling for it.

What they do need to bin off is the nonsense of clear and obvious error, an imaginary high bar for overturning decisions and super slow mo replays.

2 of Forest's claims yesterday were due to the ref thinking Young got the ball. Replays showed he didn't on either occasion. There's no debate there, he didn't get the ball. That's a factual error and there should be no need for a dispute.
The exact same as van de Ven challenging Gomez at Spurs. The ref thought he got the ball and awarded a corner. Replay's show he didn't, yet the decision to award a corner still stood.

Then we would get even more overturned calls, even more interruptions and even less real time emotions. It's such a bore.
Chasing fairness is such a waste of time.

Cant wait for the inevitable mandatory commercial breaks too.

Football is really trying hard to ruin the best game in the world.

[smutchin]

So, taking the latter one - what happens when the ref *doesn't see* what happens, like even slightly.  Take the Man City Chelsea penalty controversy - where Grealish clearly moves his hand to block the ball in the wall.  The ref *clearly* didn't see what happened (as he gave it as a goal kick, so he didn't see any contact) - why wouldn't you want VAR, in that situation, to exist - and to then tell the ref "look mate, you clearly didn't see Grealish handle the ball - can you go over to the screen to watch the replay so you can make a better decision on whether you think it was ball to hand, or hand to ball".

I can understand VAR being reluctant to give refs instructions - the on-field ref is in charge of running the game and they can't be seen to undermine him.

But refs need to be more prepared to admit that they are human, liable to make mistakes, and proactively ask VAR for guidance and support more often. Not instantly assume they are correct even when they have a limited view of an incident.

Basically, it needs to work more like TMO in rugby, which has proved hugely beneficial to the game. It's mad that they can't even establish a consistent process in football. If there were some consistency, the occasional mistakes would be more forgivable.

Instead, the "mistakes" often end up looking like something more sinister, especially when they appear to consistently work in favour of certain teams.

[stewil007]

But refs need to be more prepared to admit that they are human,

Yet this the argument that gets trotted out every week to support what has happened - they're only human.

[Scottymuser]

Then we would get even more overturned calls, even more interruptions and even less real time emotions. It's such a bore.
Chasing fairness is such a waste of time.

Cant wait for the inevitable mandatory commercial breaks too.

Football is really trying hard to ruin the best game in the world.

So as an example, you are perfectly happy with being able to celebrate "in the moment" some goals, but then lose the title year after year because of dodgy on-field referee decisions, instead of trying to improve the VAR process to streamline them, whilst getting those decisions correct? 

[Barneylfc∗]

I can understand VAR being reluctant to give refs instructions - the on-field ref is in charge of running the game and they can't be seen to undermine him.

But refs need to be more prepared to admit that they are human, liable to make mistakes, and proactively ask VAR for guidance and support more often. Not instantly assume they are correct even when they have a limited view of an incident.

Basically, it needs to work more like TMO in rugby, which has proved hugely beneficial to the game. It's mad that they can't even establish a consistent process in football. If there were some consistency, the occasional mistakes would be more forgivable.

Instead, the "mistakes" often end up looking like something more sinister, especially when they appear to consistently work in favour of certain teams.

I can't.

The whole purpose of VAR is to ensure correct decisions are made. If the ref makes a wrong decision it should be corrected. That's not undermining the ref, it's putting VAR to the use it was intended for.

There's 2 officials on VAR. If both agree it was the wrong decision then there should be no need to call a ref to review it. Reviews should only happen at the side of the pitch if the 2 dickheads on VAR don't agree. Then the ref can watch it back and make an informed decision.

"Oi, Taylor. Are you fucking blind? Young takes out the Forest player and gets absolutely nothing of the ball. You indicated you thought he got the ball. He didn't. It's a penalty. Open your fucking eyes."

It really should be that simple.

[smutchin]

The whole purpose of VAR is to ensure correct decisions are made. If the ref makes a wrong decision it should be corrected. That's not undermining the ref, it's putting VAR to the use it was intended for.

We're in agreement on this. I just meant I can see what their reasoning is, not that I support it. Anyway, this is the wrong thread for this discussion. I think what I was getting at is covered by this excellent post by oojason over in the VAR thread.

[Fortneef]

Strange from Palace. Banter is amusing, but all clubs should be for correct and consistant decisions. What do they say when VAR / refs screw them over next week because they are playing Vs United/Spurs/Arsenal/City?

"The ref is a wanker"  but not  "The ref is corrupt"

[Walshy nMe®]

Forget any squads, ref decisions e.t.c, this is unforgivable from Chilwell, couldn't believe my eyes when watching it.

How did he not play the pass.

[Knight]

Ollie Watkins is having an insane season. Shouldn’t there be more chat about this? Not on here but generally. It’s wild. He has 36 goal involvements!!

[oojason]

'[Craig Hope] Nottingham Forest consider legal action against Sky after pundit Gary Neville’s “mafia” slur' - https://twitter.com/craighope_dm/status/1782523424230756619

^ link in the tweet is to the Daily Mail so won't post it here.

[TepidT2O]

I mean they’ve gone totally bat shit crazy.
This is totally out of order.  How is anyone going to be able to referee games with this kind of shite?

[jillcwhomever]

I mean they’ve gone totally bat shit crazy.
This is totally out of order.  How is anyone going to be able to referee games with this kind of shite?

True, but it would be funny if they sue Neville. 😀

[Fromola]

I mean they’ve gone totally bat shit crazy.
This is totally out of order.  How is anyone going to be able to referee games with this kind of shite?

They've gone about it all wrong. They were within their rights to release a statement/ask for the VAR audio, but you have to be professional about it. Problem is their owner is unhinged.

We all thought they were mad after they went crazy after the dropped ball. At least they've got a genuine grievance here.

[Nick110581]

They've gone about it all wrong. They were within their rights to release a statement/ask for the VAR audio, but you have to be professional about it. Problem is their owner is unhinged.

We all thought they were mad after they went crazy after the dropped ball. At least they've got a genuine grievance here.

It’s kind of funny though.

We were professional after Spurs and got heaps of criticism so they have tried a different approach.

Sky tell Neville and Carragher what to say as it potentially impacts the brand.

[Zlen]

I mean they’ve gone totally bat shit crazy.
This is totally out of order.  How is anyone going to be able to referee games with this kind of shite?

Who cares? We have reached a stage where not having referees on the pitch would result in a better match and more correct decisions than two teams of overpaid, self-serving fucks we currently have. Having players figure it out would be quicker and more accurate than this. If they want sympathy, they need to be seen to want to improve and want to reach the correct decision. They don't. They want to justify any decision and preserve their mediocre standards. So fuck them.

[jillcwhomever]

Who cares? We have reached a stage where not having referees on the pitch would result in a better match and more correct decisions than two teams of overpaid, self-serving fucks we currently have. Having players figure it out would be quicker and more accurate than this. If they want sympathy, they need to be seen to want to improve and want to reach the correct decision. They don't. They want to justify any decision and preserve their mediocre standards. So fuck them.

You can't have a game with no referees that is a ridiculous post.

[The North Bank]

Im with forest on this one, when you’re so incompetent its not surprising that people will eventually think it’s deliberate. Something has to change.

[Zlen]

You can't have a game with no referees that is a ridiculous post.

Obviously. Yet I somehow think it would still be an improvement on these bastards and the standards they've set for themselves. That is where we are currently, that is the level of quality they are delivering week in, week out. Twenty two players thrown into a pit would balance the game better than Webb's cohort of mediocre shysters.

[jillcwhomever]

Obviously. Yet I somehow think it would still be an improvement on these bastards and the standards they've set for themselves. That is where we are currently, that is the level of quality they are delivering week in, week out. Twenty two players thrown into a pit would balance the game better than Webb's cohort of mediocre shysters.

An improvement, how? Every week you people rage at footballers who fall over the moment the wind blows. How exactly would it be better, leaving it to a bunch of cheats to decide the game? It would end with massive brawls more likely.

[Zlen]

An improvement, how? Every week you people rage at footballers who fall over the moment the wind blows. How exactly would it be better, leaving it to a bunch of cheats to decide the game? It would end with massive brawls more likely.

A brawl or two, maybe, and then it would balance itself out. Much like those prison experiments where they allow inmates previously unimaginable freedom to move, make calls and organise themselves - they quickly find the balance and stomp out the worst behaviour in order to maintain the bigger prize of freedom. Referees are not the bullwark against diving and cheating, but also enablers of it, as they more often than not reward it, let it go unpunished and actively encourage players to try through their spotty approach to prohibiting the practice. So yeah, we need the refs, obviously. But we're also at a stage now where we might as well not have them because we would not have a much worse game flow, fairer outcome and better football. They aren't fit for purpose.

[stewil007]

A brawl or two, maybe, and then it would balance itself out. Much like those prison experiments where they allow inmates previously unimaginable freedom to move, make calls and organise themselves - they quickly find the balance and stomp out the worst behaviour in order to maintain the bigger prize of freedom. Referees are not the bullwark against diving and cheating, but also enablers of it, as they more often than not reward it, let it go unpunished and actively encourage players to try through their spotty approach to prohibiting the practice. So yeah, we need the refs, obviously. But we're also at a stage now where we might as well not have them because we would not have a much worse game flow, fairer outcome and better football. They aren't fit for purpose.

In a way, how kids ref themselves in a 15 v 15 runabout on a friday night when the sun is disapearing over the horizon, somehow we managed to play a game, the only fouls were 'proper' fouls and offside was something along the lines of literal goal hanging not allowed.  Didn't descend into mass brawls.......

#memberberries

[Barneylfc∗]

I mean they’ve gone totally bat shit crazy.
This is totally out of order.  How is anyone going to be able to referee games with this kind of shite?

Nonsense. Fans and clubs have been putting up with this shit for years with no one doing anything about it. It's about time a club threw their toys out of the pram.
We lay down over the Spurs farce and continued to get fucked by officials all season. Hopefully Forest don't lie down over this. I back them all the way, no matter what methods they use.

[Zimagic]

They've gone about it all wrong. They were within their rights to release a statement/ask for the VAR audio, but you have to be professional about it. Problem is their owner is unhinged.

We all thought they were mad after they went crazy after the dropped ball. At least they've got a genuine grievance here.

The issue the PGMOL have is that they got at least one of the calls wrong and clearly didn't take the time to review correctly. They can't just brush it under the carpet. If it turns out that Forrest would go down, and there's an ongoing case for incompetence, they are really in a fix. Same for ouselves and winning the league (except we've gone another route), but the noise, at the very least, will shine a spotlight on referees doing whatever they want and expecting everyone to just bow down. Before VAR, you didn't have the tools to correct decisions on-field, but now they have no excuse and should be held to account when they refuse to use the tools at their disposal.


Football should be a game between 2 teams, not 2 teams and a referee.

[Fromola]

The issue the PGMOL have is that they got at least one of the calls wrong and clearly didn't take the time to review correctly. They can't just brush it under the carpet. If it turns out that Forrest would go down, and there's an ongoing case for incompetence, they are really in a fix. Same for ouselves and winning the league (except we've gone another route), but the noise, at the very least, will shine a spotlight on referees doing whatever they want and expecting everyone to just bow down. Before VAR, you didn't have the tools to correct decisions on-field, but now they have no excuse and should be held to account when they refuse to use the tools at their disposal.


Football should be a game between 2 teams, not 2 teams and a referee.

VAR has been a lottery since it came in as to how it's used though and a bad system dreadfully utilised. Not unusual for us to have 2-3 strong shouts for a pen in a game and VAR doesn't even look at it (and the obvious stonewaller v City ignored). Pre-VAR the ref would get it in the neck a bit, but you'd accept in real time he didn't get the right angle or the benefit of all replays. It's unfathomable with VAR, but decisions are often so subjective that it's a minefield on pen decisions.

You also don't want VAR to mean there's pens every match, which what happened with Ole's Man United and that became a farce in itself. I think there should be a high bar for a pen, with the reward of a 90% chance of a goal needing to fit the crime, but there's no consistency.

[Elzar]

Worth noting that Brighton have City on Thursday, after a 12 day break. That's basically another mid season break for them, you'd hope De Zerbi can get them energised and back on it.

The last 3 away at Brighton, Man City have drawn 1, won 1 and lost 1.

Brighton do seem to have quite a few injuries though

[[new username under construction]]

Im with forest on this one, when you’re so incompetent its not surprising that people will eventually think it’s deliberate. Something has to change.

I think Forest are just the first club seeing that going about it the "right way" gets you nowhere

[Tokyoite]

Ffs is Palmer injured?? The only threat Chelsea have and he might miss the Arsenal game 

[[new username under construction]]

Pfft they have Sterling....as long as he doesn't have to score.........or tackle......or run, he's great

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's about time the PGMOL published the scores before kick off so we knew who to bet on.

[Barneylfc∗]

Ffs is Palmer injured?? The only threat Chelsea have and he might miss the Arsenal game 

Ill, not injured. Still annoying though

[amir87]

Ill, not injured. Still annoying though

He's been looking unwell his whole career so far so was bound to catch up with him.

[Tokyoite]

Ill, not injured. Still annoying though

Yeah doesn't change much. No chance Chelsea get something out of the game tonight then.

[BarryCrocker]

Chelsea win this and they go level on points with Newcastle in 6th. Leapfrogging Manchester United and West Ham.

[Elzar]

Chelsea haven't been beaten in the league since 4 February

Dodgy draws with Brentford, Sheff Utd and Burnley
Wins against Newcastle and Man United in wild games
Draw to Man City
Beat Everton and Palace

Suggests they tend to raise their game as needed and struggle for motivation against others. All about their reaction to losing at the weekend, but if they can create the chaotic nature of games they have been against better sides, they have a good chance.

[Walshy nMe®]

I don't understand why:

ALL recordings of every single game is available post match to clubs, even to fans, what are they trying to hide?
If they want to fuck around on TV with replays, have the live mic feed being played at the same time on TV.
Play the live feed in the stadium too, at least let the match going fans have SOME idea of what is happening.

I don't buy talk of swearing e.t.c by players being broadcast, again book anyone who swears, the problem resolves itself in about 3 weeks.

[Peabee]

Strange from Palace. Banter is amusing, but all clubs should be for correct and consistant decisions. What do they say when VAR / refs screw them over next week because they are playing Vs United/Spurs/Arsenal/City?

This is why the PGMOL can hide behind tribalism. Bad decisions cost one team but benefit another team, while all the other teams and fans laugh at them.

[Nick110581]

The audio only embarrasses them further.

The fact they are shouting and rushing everything is bonkers.

[Crosby Nick]

The audio only embarrasses them further.

The fact they are shouting and rushing everything is bonkers.

Have they released it?

Are they trying to make the game flow/not have endless delays? But at the same time, that means VAR refs are making instant decsions rather than asking the on field ref to look at the screen? Their approach to how they go about everything lurches so wildly from one extreme to the other.

[Nick110581]

Have they released it?

Are they trying to make the game flow/not have endless delays? But at the same time, that means VAR refs are making instant decsions rather than asking the on field ref to look at the screen? Their approach to how they go about everything lurches so wildly from one extreme to the other.

Not yet.

The VVD one at Newcastle, the Doku challenge and Diaz goal just makes them sound even more incompetent.

The VAR Officials should be clear with their instructions but it’s all ‘mate this, mate that’ delivered at 110mph.