Topic: Anfield Road Redevelopment

[RedorRed]

In regards of the Emirates Stadium I read somewhere once that the capacity could be increased to 70,000 simply by installing normal sized seats. At present the seats are very big.

That would be funny.... with Spurs thinking they’ve been so clever in building a stadium 2,000 more than Arsenal....... would be great if Arsenal then just reduced the size of some of their seats to get 1 seat more than White Hart Lane

[andy07]

That would be funny.... with Spurs thinking they’ve been so clever in building a stadium 2,000 more than Arsenal....... would be great if Arsenal then just reduced the size of some of their seats to get 1 seat more than White Hart Lane

The way Arsenal are playing at the moment they will need to downsize!

[Macred]

Is there anybody on these threads that is on the new fan forum things that mainly centre on ticketing but I know there was a specific meeting to be about the stadium but that meeting was seemingly bumped. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone know the dates the meetings are taking place? Or why the minutes are no longer shown on the club website like the old minutes (now we get a club manicured news snippet)?

I was just thinking, that it is a shame that, according to JP in the Echo that the club have looked at 50 designs for the ARE and narrowed that down to 3 or 4 but that not of these designs are shown to us the fans and we seemingly do not get any say in the matter. I kind of get that cos there would never be any consensus as to which is best, beauty being in the eye of the beholder etc. but just seems to be a lack of openness.

[CraigDS]

Why do they need to be open regarding it?

The decision will be made based upon many many things. I'm not sure fans demanding one option or another would help matters.

[Macred]

Why do they need to be open regarding it?

The decision will be made based upon many many things. I'm not sure fans demanding one option or another would help matters.

They do not need to be but given they wish to be seen as having concerns for the community and they are self prescribed custodians rather than owners and it is more than just a business or to quote JW Henry

"From our first days as owners we have understood that serving as custodians of this incredible institution is a distinct privilege"
"We believe we have demonstrated a willingness to listen carefully, reconsider our position, and act decisively. The unique and sacred relationship between Liverpool Football Club and its supporters has always been foremost in our minds. It represents the heartbeat of this extraordinary football club. "

Why listen to supporters on some matters and not others particularly things that will leave a lasting legacy. Everton are asking their supporters what they want to see. Liverpool asked what we wanted to see in respect of ticketing which caused a rethink, why not say, these are the options we are considering what are your views.

[CraigDS]

Everton? They haven't even got a fucking drawing for the new stadium so that's a laugh.

The club will handle it the way they did with the Main Stand. They'll formulate a design that fits with what the club is looking to do and then it'll consult on that design.

Asking to see all the possible designs now is ridiculous and screams of impatience rather than anything else.

[Macred]

Everton? They haven't even got a fucking drawing for the new stadium so that's a laugh.

The club will handle it the way they did with the Main Stand. They'll formulate a design that fits with what the club is looking to do and then it'll consult on that design.

Asking to see all the possible designs now is ridiculous and screams of impatience rather than anything else.

Everton's is visionary...  some might say... imaginary!

I know how they are handling it, just wondered what people think and if that is the right way of dealing with it. Personally, not bothered as long as it gets done and sooner rather than later.

I don't think it suggests impatience at all, wanting to have a view on what is being considered, before a legacy that may then last for 50 years is imposed on you, is reasonable, and the custodians if that is what they are would respect that you have a right to proffer a view and they are obligated to listen if not act... or they are not custodians at all and to claim to be so is just lip service.

[ScottScott]

Everton's is visionary...  some might say... imaginary!

I know how they are handling it, just wondered what people think and if that is the right way of dealing with it. Personally, not bothered as long as it gets done and sooner rather than later.

I don't think it suggests impatience at all, wanting to have a view on what is being considered, before a legacy that may then last for 50 years is imposed on you, is reasonable, and the custodians if that is what they are would respect that you have a right to proffer a view and they are obligated to listen if not act... or they are not custodians at all and to claim to be so is just lip service.

I don';t want to come across as rude but this screams of you being a child. The Main Stand was a flawless roll out of a stadium expansion and they will follow the same process when it comes to the AR end. Wait

[poopscoop]

In regards of the Emirates Stadium I read somewhere once that the capacity could be increased to 70,000 simply by installing normal sized seats. At present the seats are very big.

Super size or normal size, half of them are empty by 65 minutes anyway.

[BarryCrocker]

FSG have very good form in renovating Fenway since they took over. They've apparently improved facilities, made some moderate increases in capacity while still maintaining the history and shape of the stadium. Yes, it is one of the smallest in the MLB but to sell out 790+ games in a row definitely helps maintain the atmosphere while propping up the bottom line.

[Eeyore]

FSG have very good form in renovating Fenway since they took over. They've apparently improved facilities, made some moderate increases in capacity while still maintaining the history and shape of the stadium. Yes, it is one of the smallest in the MLB but to sell out 790+ games in a row definitely helps maintain the atmosphere while propping up the bottom line.

Except the sell out streak was a fraud.

[Red Beret]

I loved that design...... it was the only thing H&G did that was good....... the design I mean.
Was so different to anything else... especially the parry bowl type designs

I liked it too.  I understand that the inside was very poor but I always wondered if it could have been made more suitable for football.  Frankly though, I'm glad it never got built.  Bad enough our history is stained with Hodgson - having that as a permanent reminder of H&G would be monumentally depressing.

[RedorRed]

I liked it too.  I understand that the inside was very poor but I always wondered if it could have been made more suitable for football.  Frankly though, I'm glad it never got built.  Bad enough our history is stained with Hodgson - having that as a permanent reminder of H&G would be monumentally depressing.

Hodgson who? 

[Red Beret]

Hodgson who? 

I don't remember. 

[newterp]

Except the sell out streak was a fraud.

you mean the actual attendance streak?

because the games were sold out by purchased tickets.

[Brian Blessed]

Except the sell out streak was a fraud.

I have no idea if it was a fraud or not. But when was that picture taken? Was it during or after the supposed streak? It looks like some people are braving the rain, while others are taking shelter at the top left of the picture. Could it be there are more people taking shelter inside?

Maybe there are a load of other pictures showing it up as a fraudulent claim, but I don't think a single picture, without context, proves it.

[Suareznumber7]

I have no idea if it was a fraud or not. But when was that picture taken? Was it during or after the supposed streak? It looks like some people are braving the rain, while others are taking shelter at the top left of the picture. Could it be there are more people taking shelter inside?

Maybe there are a load of other pictures showing it up as a fraudulent claim, but I don't think a single picture, without context, proves it.

The games get sold out.  Some simply don’t go in bad weather even with purchased tickets.  They have 81 home games and every single game they play, all 162 of them, are televised so people don’t brave the weather to see the team play especially early in the season when it’s cold or when it’s raining.  If there is a rain delay, which could last several hours, many people simply go home without staying to watch the game. 

[tgwj77]

The games get sold out.  Some simply don’t go in bad weather even with purchased tickets.  They have 81 home games and every single game they play, all 162 of them, are televised so people don’t brave the weather to see the team play especially early in the season when it’s cold or when it’s raining.  If there is a rain delay, which could last several hours, many people simply go home without staying to watch the game.

I wonder whether it is similar in baseball to NFL, where the club actually "buys" its own tickets (no idea how it works in terms of payment) to buy up unsold tickets for a game that looks like getting a poor attendance. I believe there are various other scams in the NFL like getting club sponsors to pay for unsold tickets.

WTF? Why? Because under NFL rules (at least once upon a time, not sure whether still the case) unless a game is "sold out" with 3 days to go, the rules prevent the game from being shown live on local TV stations. The team I follow, the Dolphins, had a long period of this happening, having big patches of empty seats despite being "sold out". The club and sponsors have to decide whether they want to lose the value of the local media exposure (a much bigger deal in the US than here), or pay a small hit to keep the game on air.

So I don't put it past Americans to come up with a definition of "sold out" which is anything but.


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I think in the nfl if you cover up say the upper tier seats with tarp and sell the lower tier ones you can pass it off as a sellout

[RedSince86]

They had their best team ever during that streak.

They last won a world series in 1918 before that streak started,2003 they came really close and 2004 they won the world series breaking the curse and again in 2007 and 2013 and they were practically going toe to toe with the NY Yankees every year during that streak to win the division to get into the playoffs,the rivalry was really strong in those years.

They sold out,no tarp on the seats,every seat got sold during that streak,day games in afternoon,night games and even double headers (2 games in a day).

New England Patriots are the dominant team in the NFL but the RedSox are the #1 team in New England/Boston as Boston will always be a baseball town like NYC,Chicago and St Louis.

[Jonny-B]

I think in the nfl if you cover up say the upper tier seats with tarp and sell the lower tier ones you can pass it off as a sellout

You would lose those seats for a season though. You couldn't just tarp over seats for one badly selling game.

Anyway NFL blackout rules have been suspended since 2015.

MLB does have blackout rules but nothing to do with attendance.

[Billy Elliot]

Why do they need to be open regarding it?

The decision will be made based upon many many things. I'm not sure fans demanding one option or another would help matters.

It's all about consulttion, getting the opinions of what the fans want after being open about everything can solve a lot of problems.  Involving fans in the decision isn't always about demands.

I read something interesting in the Engage paper by Supporters Direct.

"A good example of consultation comes from AFC
Wimbledon who surveyed their members on a range
of issues at the club. The 3,000+ co-owners of AFC
Wimbledon who make up the Dons Trust (each
paying £25) were consulted on setting the price of
match tickets for the 2016/17 season. Following
a comprehensive presentation of the challenges
the club would face with their small Kingsmeadow
stadium if they were promoted to League One, the
supporters actually voted to increase ticket prices,
recognising the need to increase the playing budget
and the competitiveness of the team in the league
above. This came just two months after supporters
at Liverpool walked out in protest at ticket pricing
after they didn’t feel they had been adequately
consulted, forcing an embarrassing U-turn from the
club and highlighting the differences in approach."

[CraigDS]

It's all about consulttion, getting the opinions of what the fans want after being open about everything can solve a lot of problems.  Involving fans in the decision isn't always about demands.

I read something interesting in the Engage paper by Supporters Direct.

"A good example of consultation comes from AFC
Wimbledon who surveyed their members on a range
of issues at the club. The 3,000+ co-owners of AFC
Wimbledon who make up the Dons Trust (each
paying £25) were consulted on setting the price of
match tickets for the 2016/17 season. Following
a comprehensive presentation of the challenges
the club would face with their small Kingsmeadow
stadium if they were promoted to League One, the
supporters actually voted to increase ticket prices,
recognising the need to increase the playing budget
and the competitiveness of the team in the league
above. This came just two months after supporters
at Liverpool walked out in protest at ticket pricing
after they didn’t feel they had been adequately
consulted, forcing an embarrassing U-turn from the
club and highlighting the differences in approach."

Yeah, big difference is they are owners and pay for the right to be consulted.

Could you imagine Liverpool surveying 10+ millions fans regarding what they'd want to see built, or to give opinions on 50 designs? It would be chaos.

[Billy Elliot]

Yeah, big difference is they are owners and pay for the right to be consulted.

Could you imagine Liverpool surveying 10+ millions fans regarding what they'd want to see built, or to give opinions on 50 designs? It would be chaos.

Of course we wouldn't have the same level of consultation and we don't have a right to be consulted.  That doesn't mean to say that not consulting us is good business practice.

We had our Supporters Committee which was democratically representative of 10 + million fans.  What was it about though?  Was it for information (Decision's wouldn't have been changed by anything they say)?  Was it for comment (a genuine effort to seek and develop ideas)? 

What of the new forums?  So far, to me it sounds like the former.

I think we tick all of the following boxes.

What Does Bad Look Like?

• The club nominate individuals to participate in
discussions.
• The three fundamental areas to build trust (finance,
disclosure and ownership) not being given adequate
space to be discussed11 .
• Information from meetings not being shared with the
wider fan base.
• A tendency to use ‘commercial confidentiality’ to avoid
sharing financial and operational information.
• A culture of ‘no comment’ that needs breaking down.
Proper parameters and responsibilities need to be
embedded.
• Avoidance of contentious issues.
• “Structured means structured”. A large meeting
typically doesn’t suit dealing with the primary topics
structured dialogue is designed to address.
• Senior leaders (e.g. key decision makers) not
attending.

West Ham supporters had no right to be consulted on anything, they probably wouldn't be in such a mess though if they had have been.



 

[CraigDS]

You seem to have moved the discussion way beyond someone's desire to see all 50 designs....

[Billy Elliot]

You seem to have moved the discussion way beyond someone's desire to see all 50 designs....

I wouldn't mind having a look at the 4 short listed ones (or at least shared with one of the forums).  What does the majority of us want from a new stand?  Cheap affordable seats that will attract a younger more vibrant crowd that could be good for the long term, increases to transfers and wages budgets in the short term, etc.

It's basic good business practice to involve all stakeholders, but where do we lie in terms of importance compared to other stakeholders?

[Macred]

You seem to have moved the discussion way beyond someone's desire to see all 50 designs....

Who said anything about a desire to see all 50 designs?

[CraigDS]

Who said anything about a desire to see all 50 designs?

You did...

I was just thinking, that it is a shame that, according to JP in the Echo that the club have looked at 50 designs for the ARE and narrowed that down to 3 or 4 but that not of these designs are shown to us the fans

[Macred]

I wouldn't mind having a look at the 4 short listed ones (or at least shared with one of the forums).  What does the majority of us want from a new stand?  Cheap affordable seats that will attract a younger more vibrant crowd that could be good for the long term, increases to transfers and wages budgets in the short term, etc.

It's basic good business practice to involve all stakeholders, but where do we lie in terms of importance compared to other stakeholders?

I dont believe all the 50 designs nonsense anyway---maybe 50 different kinds of tile choice for the bog floor but the main idea for teh stand itself... well it will be red bricks, probably involve some columns and probably look like the main stand externally.... and then inside it will have red seats...  facing the pitch.

Regarding impatience....  some people do not know when they are being taken for a ride, they have made the same comments re. assessing economic viability every 6 months for the last 1.5 years. It is a simple business model, the computer modelling they would use for the main stand would easily be modified for variations of alternatives for an ARE i.e. the economic modelling could have been done in weeks. Every month that passes, the model from the month before changes, what might be viable one year, might not be 2 years later... say for example tariffs on steel etc, so build costs go up. Likewise the outline plans had already been developed, they knew in essence what they wanted to do, don't tell me it takes this long to decide, they took less time with the main stand. The excuses we are being given are just that excuses to hide whatever the real reason is that things are not being progressed.... likely when it is announced, they will announce ticket prices will go up but how they have been frozen for 3 years so its all good.

[Macred]

You did...

I said

"I was just thinking, that it is a shame that, according to JP in the Echo that the club have looked at 50 designs for the ARE and narrowed that down to 3 or 4 but that not of these designs are shown to us the fans and we seemingly do not get any say in the matter. I kind of get that cos there would never be any consensus as to which is best, beauty being in the eye of the beholder etc. but just seems to be a lack of openness."

They had narrowed it down to 3 or 4 but none of these have been shown to us. I also said that I kind of get that... i.e. that is no necessarily possible...  but I criticised the lack of openness which is the point that the new commentator is making about the purpose of consultation. So you can twist what I say but it is not what I said, or if I expressed it poorly, it was not what I meant.

If they consulted me now... I would just say, something that looks like the main stand eternally... maybe more columns....and I like the podium and just as big as they can reasonably make it.

[CraigDS]

I dont believe all the 50 designs nonsense anyway---maybe 50 different kinds of tile choice for the bog floor but the main idea for teh stand itself... well it will be red bricks, probably involve some columns and probably look like the main stand externally.... and then inside it will have red seats...  facing the pitch.

Regarding impatience....  some people do not know when they are being taken for a ride, they have made the same comments re. assessing economic viability every 6 months for the last 1.5 years. It is a simple business model, the computer modelling they would use for the main stand would easily be modified for variations of alternatives for an ARE i.e. the economic modelling could have been done in weeks. Every month that passes, the model from the month before changes, what might be viable one year, might not be 2 years later... say for example tariffs on steel etc, so build costs go up. Likewise the outline plans had already been developed, they knew in essence what they wanted to do, don't tell me it takes this long to decide, they took less time with the main stand. The excuses we are being given are just that excuses to hide whatever the real reason is that things are not being progressed.... likely when it is announced, they will announce ticket prices will go up but how they have been frozen for 3 years so its all good.

What are you even going on about?

We've funded a £120m Main Stand, AND about to fund a £50m training complex. I imagine you were one of the ones saying neither of those would get done too.

The club worked it's way through the complexities of the Main Stand, and it got done right. The club has worked it's way through the complexities of moving training ground, and it's now about to be done.

What makes you think they aren't working their way through the complexities of the Anny Road and that this won't then get done? Because they've not happened to share the details with you just yet?

[CraigDS]

If they consulted me now... I would just say, something that looks like the main stand eternally... maybe more columns....and I like the podium and just as big as they can reasonably make it.

Well with that sort of insight I'm amazed Moore hasn't popped round to your house so you can give the plans a once over.

[Macred]

What are you even going on about?

We've funded a £120m Main Stand, AND about to fund a £50m training complex. I imagine you were one of the ones saying neither of those would get done too.

The club worked it's way through the complexities of the Main Stand, and it got done right. The club has worked it's way through the complexities of moving training ground, and it's now about to be done.

What makes you think they aren't working their way through the complexities of the Anny Road and that this won't then get done? Because they've not happened to share the details with you just yet?

Michael Broughton 2010 :"“They [NESV] want to make sure they do the right thing on the stadium,”

“They have built stadiums and they have restored stadiums. They have not committed to which is the right thing.

“We will have a stadium of more than 60,000. We will get substantial stadium development.”

 “I don’t know if there is a next step because ticket prices are an issue in England,” the Principal Owner of Liverpool FC said. “That may foreclose further expansion. We’ll have to see.” JW Henry

"“If you consider the redevelopment of Anfield Road from a purely General Admission perspective, building, say, 6,000 extra seats to take the capacity up to 60,000 would cost somewhere between £60m and £70m.

“At £12,000 to £13,000 per seat, it would take approximately 15 years to pay back, which is not a smart investment for the business." Ian Ayre a little over 18 months ago.

Since then every 6 months, we are looking at different models and economics of it... so what IA and JWH hadn't looked at that when they made the comments?

They originally stated that each stand had to be looked at as an individual business entity, and each development would be an isolated self funding decision... and yet they have 2 years into the operation of the new main stand used none of the new money it has generated to pay of the debt associated to it. So all this about it has to be paid off in 5 years nonsense is just that, nonsense.

The training complex will in part be funded by the sale of Melwood £8m to £10m and Sponsorship at £10m+ per year... they might have to provide a short bridging loan between now and the building being completed on which interest payments will easily be absorbed  in the Melwood sale cash, so they will not at any point be out of pocket..  smart business and I have no problem with it but don't make it sound like that has any bearing on funding the expansion of Anfield.

And no I never said anything like that about the main stand or training ground.

[Macred]

Well with that sort of insight I'm amazed Moore hasn't popped round to your house so you can give the plans a once over.

Its no more vague that what Ian A said, I am not writing chapter and verse on it...  What did he say, retain the feel of Anfield, be close to the pitch, have overlapping roofs, keep the sound in...    so not that much more detailed than what I proffered.... the designers then design it.

What you would ask for if they asked you... if they said list 5 things you think a new ARE should have....   most would say no corporate...  what right does anyone have to say that... none according to you.

[CraigDS]

Michael Broughton 2010 :"“They [NESV] want to make sure they do the right thing on the stadium,”

“They have built stadiums and they have restored stadiums. They have not committed to which is the right thing.

“We will have a stadium of more than 60,000. We will get substantial stadium development.”

 “I don’t know if there is a next step because ticket prices are an issue in England,” the Principal Owner of Liverpool FC said. “That may foreclose further expansion. We’ll have to see.” JW Henry

"“If you consider the redevelopment of Anfield Road from a purely General Admission perspective, building, say, 6,000 extra seats to take the capacity up to 60,000 would cost somewhere between £60m and £70m.

“At £12,000 to £13,000 per seat, it would take approximately 15 years to pay back, which is not a smart investment for the business." Ian Ayre a little over 18 months ago.

Since then every 6 months, we are looking at different models and economics of it... so what IA and JWH hadn't looked at that when they made the comments?

They originally stated that each stand had to be looked at as an individual business entity, and each development would be an isolated self funding decision... and yet they have 2 years into the operation of the new main stand used none of the new money it has generated to pay of the debt associated to it. So all this about it has to be paid off in 5 years nonsense is just that, nonsense.

The training complex will in part be funded by the sale of Melwood £8m to £10m and Sponsorship at £10m+ per year... they might have to provide a short bridging loan between now and the building being completed on which interest payments will easily be absorbed  in the Melwood sale cash, so they will not at any point be out of pocket..  smart business and I have no problem with it but don't make it sound like that has any bearing on funding the expansion of Anfield.

And no I never said anything like that about the main stand or training ground.

What exactly is your point here as you're a bit all over the shop?

The club was never going to make a decision on the Anny Rd before the Main was done. They said this. Not only does it make sense to see what happens when we add an additional 8,500 seats to the supply per game, but with the incredibly tight site building the two together was simply not going to happen.

The Main is done and the club is clearly progressing with the decision for the Anny Road. From the looks of it this includes making bigger than we originally sought planning for by about 3,500 seats to take the capacity to 62,000 rather than 58,500. I'm not sure if you've ever been involved in any sort of high level business decisions, building/planning decisions, or financial decisions which are valued at £60m+, but they really aren't decisions that are made over a quick pint whilst scribbling on the back of a fag packet.

The club only has so many resources, and not just talking about cash, but people. We're in the process of carrying out a lot of building work at various locations (Main Stand done, Club Store done, Melwood & Kirkby starting, Club Bar starting) all while the final plans for the second largest building project to date is finalised.

It's imperative we get it right the first time, and not simply rush into decisions.

[MerseysideBrum]

Didn't we expect £30m more in matchday revenue? why only £12m

no Europe and I'm guessing CL corporate tickets will cost more than league ones

[CraigDS]

Its no more vague that what Ian A said, I am not writing chapter and verse on it...  What did he say, retain the feel of Anfield, be close to the pitch, have overlapping roofs, keep the sound in...    so not that much more detailed than what I proffered.... the designers then design it.

What you would ask for if they asked you... if they said list 5 things you think a new ARE should have....   most would say no corporate...  what right does anyone have to say that... none according to you.

People can say what they like, but as said previously the club will ultimately design what is right for the club, and honestly if getting an additional 3,500 to take the stadium to 62k meant adding in 1,000 corps then I'd take that.

The club carried out countless amounts of feedback when the original planning for the Main and Anny went in. People had their say plenty. When planning goes in for the expanded Anny then people will have their time to have their say once again. The club knows full well what most fans want from the Anny Road, it's not some hidden secret. They don't need to release a load of potential designs to garner feedback at this stage.

[Macred]

no Europe and I'm guessing CL corporate tickets will cost more than league ones

The expected revenue from the main was projected to be £20m based on 25 games.

The approx. revenue per home game pre new main stand was approx. £2m.

We played 7 less games than the season (24 compared to 31) before when the new main opened. So lost that £2m revenue x 7 (£14m) - i.e. without the new main stand the matchday revenue would have dropped from £62m to £48m. So even with less games we made £12m more than the season before i.e. the new main seemingly contributed £26m in additional matchday revenue. So matchday revenue is something like £3.1m per game with the main stand or an increase of £1.1m per game.

So this year with PL 19 games, Cup 2 games, Cl 6 games  - 27 games x £3.1  + £83.8m this current year. Dometsic cup gate receipts I think are split 50/50. Cl you keep all your money.

I believe our matchday revenue includes money from pre and post season tours also..  so maybe this year we could be close to £90m in matchday revenue even without an expanded ARE or £10m behind Arsenal.  Interesting to see what Spurs do with their new stadium (and the prices they are charging... £1900 for their most expensive season ticket).

[Macred]

People can say what they like, but as said previously the club will ultimately design what is right for the club, and honestly if getting an additional 3,500 to take the stadium to 62k meant adding in 1,000 corps then I'd take that.

The club carried out countless amounts of feedback when the original planning for the Main and Anny went in. People had their say plenty. When planning goes in for the expanded Anny then people will have their time to have their say once again. The club knows full well what most fans want from the Anny Road, it's not some hidden secret. They don't need to release a load of potential designs to garner feedback at this stage.

Mate, I think they will do it, and it will be a good thing, I love the new main but have only seen it from outside. I have a ticket in the main for the Bayern game coming up so will be able to have a look inside so looking forward to that.

I agree, what you say re, corps too another 1,000 of them if that finances another 7,000 GA then all good especially if the alternative is per the outline i.e. only 4,800 GA seats. And if it has 3 tiers and in essence is a shorter version of the main stand (with the roof adapted to fit etc) I think that would look great.

Sorry mate, It was not  my intention to wind you up if that was what you thought, I just think that we are being slightly hoodwinked, for why I don't know. I do get the impression that part of this is IA related and that is partly why he left.

[CraigDS]

It’s not that you were winding me up, it’s just we’ve had countless members come on here over the years saying the club will never build the Main and we’re being taken for a ride - yet look where we are. Same with Melwood & Kirkby, we’ve had managers going years now who have wanted them brought together and they’re making it happen.

The club went through the correct decision making process to make sure it was done right, and it has been - both in how it looks, what it offers and the costs involved.

They will do the same now with the Anny Road, the template is there to show they can get this right too, and I’m sure more will be revealed in the coming months. I think when it comes to delivering on the building projects they’ve earned a little bit of trust.