Topic: Man Utd vs Liverpool-In Game Commentary & Post game shite...

[CS111]

WHy was konchesky standing behind reina and not actually on the post, if he was on the post it would have been straight at him
as ashley cole seems to do about 10 times a season

[TSC]

Now that the dust has settled a couple of observations.  How can Fergs keep a straight face with his criticism of Torres re that foul.  He was pulled down.  The fuck was he supposed to do except go down?  Fergs can't mouth of last season that Carra should've gone and then defend that foul.  But then most know he's a hypocrit anyway.  I think he should have gone having had the benefit of watching it a couple of times - I think Torres is fast enough to have got that through ball before the keeper, who's anything but quick.  Webb bottled that.

Also a mention re the slanging match in this thread re the inappropriate songs being used to taunt the other support.  I wasn;t there yesterday but have been plenty previously, and usually the LFC supporters end up reacting to constant goading via 'murderers' chants etc.  This is no defence of it, as quite a few take great delight in singing such songs from our end at OT.  But worth mentioning that one of the loudest renditions I heard on the box yesterday reverberated around the ground, and it was the usual favourite of 'without murdering anyone...'.  This wasn't confined to a small 'hard core' support.  It was coming from much of the ground. 

[C]

why is everyone spelling Konchesky's name wrong?

[Raoul Duke]

Ferguson has no right to say anything about Torres' behaviour when you look at the other end of the pitch to Nani screaming like a little girl at the slightest contact or gust of wind.

[mybacklight]

This is... ahem......how shall I put it kindly - a little bit of an overly rosy-tinted specs viewpoint don't you think?

Considering the state of LFC at the moment, I think we played well and at times and what I always want is 110% from the players and for most that is excactly what we got. It's not all about winning, it is knuckling down when times are hard and putting in a decent display. Its going to be a long hard ride and we all need to get behind a team that for me are starting to put the effort in.  Like I said if we were a bit sharper we would have had 5 or 6 past them. I am not saying that we don't need to improve in certain areas, but it will come eventually when we get a settled team putting in the effort. Roy will look at the areas we need improving and put measures in to improve. It all takes time. I am 110% behind them and I think they need a lift like everyone else if they indeed in parts play well in my eyes. The players deserve credit were credit due and in my opinon it werent as half as bad as I originally thought.

I can honestly say that Roy up to now is doing a great job, also I can see improvements every game we get under our belts win or lose.

YNWA

[Harry_Wong]

....and another thing.

Why was Torres marking Berbatov and Konchelski standing inside the post? Surely to god the DEFENDER would have done a better job of marking the attacker and putting a strong challenge in? Given Torres's weak attempt of making any attempt to win the ball he would have been better stood on the line anyway and may even have done that better than the full back who for some inexplicable reason drifted to stand immediately behind Reinna?

All round crap defending gifting them a simple first goal.

The question is correct, it's makes no sense to me to have Konchesky on the post rather than marking an attacker.

Or, Meireles who's covering for the short corner.  While Joe Cole is there in the middle of the area as an ornamental defender, about as useful as a garden gnome. 

See 1st goal @ 3.00:

<a href="http://video.rutube.ru/49ddf6f39cd6d000d734954e01aac543" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://video.rutube.ru/49ddf6f39cd6d000d734954e01aac543</a>

Surely the presence of Torres on the halfway line would force the opposition to hold back an extra player.  Man Utd had one on halfway and another 10 yrds outside the area.  Many goals last season came from Reina releasing kicking or throwing the ball out to an attacker to hit a team on the break.

Cole could more effectively cover against the short corner than do anything against an aerial ball into the area, and he'd offer Reina a short option who should then be able to pass long. 

That allows Konchesky or Meireles to mark Berbatov, and the other on the post.  With two quick counter-attacking options if Reina claims the ball.

The very idea of Joe Cole in the area seems laughable to me, unless he's on the post and even then that's faintly amusing.

[Barrowboy]

But oshea obviously thought it was a clear goalscoring chance? hense the fould? Thats surely the intent?

Intent is not the point in this case though. Certainly, O'Shea meant to foul Torres but Torres did not have the ball and nor did he look like he was going to get to the ball before Van Der Sar so there was no obvious goal-scoring opportunity to be denied.

Yep. Should have walked and Roy should have stated so in the post match interview.

And then Roy would have sounded as bitter and twisted (and also as misinformed) as Ferguson. Roy knew it was the correct decision too

[SmithyTheRed]

The fact we didn't even play our best and we nearly spoiled the Mancs party makes me proud.

Schoolboy defending in the box makes me fucking MAD!!

PS Nani deserved a smack - the diving cheat.

[CS111]

Do most other teams bring all 10 outfield players back for corners?
DOnt understand why we dont leave at least Torres on the halfway line, even torres with someone else, means teams must have 3 or 4 defenders back.

[Spongebob Redpants]

Surely the presence of Torres on the halfway line would force the opposition to hold back an extra player. 

This is a problem going back a fair while .

Leave a player on the half way line , you take 2 of their players out . The alternative is to invite the ball back in when / if it is cleared .

[stoa]

Surely the presence of Torres on the halfway line would force the opposition to hold back an extra player.  Man Utd had one on halfway and another 10 yrds outside the area.  Many goals last season came from Reina releasing kicking or throwing the ball out to an attacker to hit a team on the break.

But didn't we have all players back under Rafa as well? I don't know who it was (my bet would be it was HBHR), but someone made the point that it can also be an advantage having the players back and then streaming forward once the ball is retrieved. Some of the best goals we've scored from defending a corner are those where players were rushing forward, were found by Pepe and with two or three passes we scored the goal.

I don't think it's about positions when the corner is taken or about man-marking/zonal-marking. It's about players doing their jobs. Every system has advantages and disadvantages. Just look at the players on the post. Rafa has been getting stick when we didn't have a player there and conceded. Yet, the Mancs once scored simply because we had a player (I think it was Yossi) standing on the post making O'Shea or Tevez be onside to score the winner.

[El Campeador]

But didn't we have all players back under Rafa as well? I don't know who it was (my bet would be it was HBHR), but someone made the point that it can also be an advantage having the players back and then streaming forward once the ball is retrieved. Some of the best goals we've scored from defending a corner are those where players were rushing forward, were found by Pepe and with two or three passes we scored the goal.

Check the Kuyt thread for a beaut I just posted.

[Red an White Tea Party]

Right what is the rule regarding oshea bringing down torres. I beleive he should have been sent of and he thought torres was going to get the ball and score. Ie,  proffesional foul. Is that correct? as numourous people have told me the decision made was the correct one.

I think although it was goalscoring chance, last man etc. Ref decided ball had got away from Nando. All the excuse needed to quash appeal.
How in hell did Nani stay on? Hugging his face dementedly, Seen a lot of that in games with enough actors sent off to expect better by now? But whiskeynose says Nandos a cheat, so we can expect him to be made an example of soon.

[megabomberman]

I think although it was goalscoring chance, last man etc. Ref decided ball had got away from Nando. All the excuse needed to quash appeal.
How in hell did Nani stay on? Hugging his face dementedly, Seen a lot of that in games with enough actors sent off to expect better by now? But whiskeynose says Nandos a cheat, so we can expect him to be made an example of soon.

Nani was an absolute pain in the arse ala Drogba,

Nando does his fair bit of bullet wound taking too however...

It was definitely not a red card,
VDS was practically scooping the ball as Torres went down,
plus game theory would suggest we would be unlikely to see a repeat of that free kick if the sequence of events leading up to it had been different.

[Red an White Tea Party]

Nani was an absolute pain in the arse ala Drogba,

Nando does his fair bit of bullet wound taking too however...

It was definitely not a red card,
VDS was practically scooping the ball as Torres went down,
plus game theory would suggest we would be unlikely to see a repeat of that free kick if the sequence of events leading up to it had been different.

No, Nando was definately got at by snipers. Which I think has partly led to wenger calling for more protection for players, just not Liverpool ones.

[FernandoTourettes]

Saturday 5th March. Can't see it staying a 3pm kickoff but I can't wait for Utd to come to Anfield again.

We'll have a settled team by then.

[YayaP]

Saturday 5th March. Can't see it staying a 3pm kickoff but I can't wait for Utd to come to Anfield again.

We'll have a settled team by then.

Would think it would be moved to Sunday no?

[woof]

Ferguson has no right to say anything about Torres' behaviour when you look at the other end of the pitch to Nani screaming like a little girl at the slightest contact or gust of wind.

Nani should be in the Olympics for diving. What an absolute farce going down at least 3 times from the slightest of touch.

[Mad Men]

Do most other teams bring all 10 outfield players back for corners?
DOnt understand why we dont leave at least Torres on the halfway line, even torres with someone else, means teams must have 3 or 4 defenders back.

You want as much height as possible in the box....but yes, we should have at least 1 player at the halfway line to draw back 2 man utd defenders....

[Mad Men]

Nani should be in the Olympics for diving. What an absolute farce going down at least 3 times from the slightest of touch.

I have seen comments by man u supporters who were also complaining about his play acting...some of them found it disgusting...fair play to those who did...but the vast majority were busy complaining about Agger being a bully.

[kalle-anka]

Fixed that for you mate although it was apparently our manager that ensured Berbatov was well placed for the nod in rather than getting goal side. It just has to be Roy's fault.

dont think Roy told him to stand behind berbatov? poor defending by Nando, but Konchesky should have stayed at the post and he would have be able to make the clearance.

[stoa]

Check the Kuyt thread for a beaut I just posted.

That's exactly what I meant. Everybody running forward, having balls played in front of them, "just" two defenders to worry about. I'm no tactical wizzard and it might have been the same with a player waiting in the centre-circle, but then again you can't say having everybody back for that corner did as any harm...

[KopThat]

dont think Roy told him to stand behind berbatov? poor defending by Nando, but Konchesky should have stayed at the post and he would have be able to make the clearance.

Rafa wouldn't have had anyone on the post

[Mad Men]

Rafa wouldn't have had anyone on the post

No, probably not but there is no saying he could/couldn't have organized the defence to prevent that first goal going in.

[LiamG]

Torres shouldnt of been picking Berbatov up but i doubt they go through who is marking who for corners, more pick your man and stay with him, Still agree with some people have said, Why have Torres back for corners when Reina is probably the best keeper in the world for quick release to a counter attack

[KopThat]

Berbatov and Vidic are there most potent aerial threats from corners, so our best 2 defenders needed to man mark them.

With Rafa's zonal marking we didn't have players on the post, I always feel safer with someone there, and Konchesky could have made a better effort to block what was a good header from Berbatov. He was lucky not to be sent off because he handled the ball,
hand to ball, just lucky it was already over the line.

[jooneyisdagod]

I really want to support Roy but his comments in the media and his tactics have been extremely underwhelming.  I can understand ignoring ginsoak's "mindgames" comments but not defending Torres against such a blatantly shite accusation is quite shocking.  Come on Roy, one for all, all for one.

[Mad Men]

Torres shouldnt of been picking Berbatov up but i doubt they go through who is marking who for corners, more pick your man and stay with him, Still agree with some people have said, Why have Torres back for corners when Reina is probably the best keeper in the world for quick release to a counter attack

Keeping Torres on the half way line will no doubt automatically involve any opposition pulling back two players at the very least, not counting their goal keeper...and something I actually agree with.

[Mad Men]

Berbatov and Vidic are there most potent aerial threats from corners, so our best 2 defenders needed to man mark them.

With Rafa's zonal marking we didn't have players on the post, I always feel safer with someone there, and Konchesky could have made a better effort to block what was a good header from Berbatov. He was lucky not to be sent off because he handled the ball,
hand to ball, just lucky it was already over the line.

Point is, he SHOULDN'T have been where he was to start with. And an "experinced" player like him should know better.

[Roger Federer]

But didn't we have all players back under Rafa as well? I don't know who it was (my bet would be it was HBHR), but someone made the point that it can also be an advantage having the players back and then streaming forward once the ball is retrieved. Some of the best goals we've scored from defending a corner are those where players were rushing forward, were found by Pepe and with two or three passes we scored the goal.

I'd say the chances of a successful counterattack decrease if you have all players back. If we clear the ball in the box, we have no one outside able to hold on to it and bring the others into play. It's more likely to go to the opposition, who can then put us under pressure again. Either with a cross into our box, or they'll have an easy time circulating the ball - none of our players can put any pressure on if they are over ten yards away.

I can't be sure that this is the case, but it's my guess. We have scored a goal or two (or perhaps more), but then again, loads of teams who don't take everyone back has done that as well (I hate to bring them up, but the mancs scored a great goal last season - or the season before - against Arsenal where Rooney got hold of the ball inside his own half, and within two three passes they had scored). Defensively it could also be an advantage if we don't have everyone back. Cruyff - when he was at Barcelona - left three, four players on the halfway line, so their own box wouldn't be overcrowded. All opposition teams had to remove three attacking players from Barca's box to cover for those players, and Cruyff felt it was easier to defend corners with fewer bodies in there. It makes sense to me - less chance of a "pinball" situation, less chance of a defender getting blocked out - but I'm not even certain that they used this tactic, it was only something I read once.

The most important thing though, no matter what system you use, is this:

It's about players doing their jobs.

[Harry_Wong]

But didn't we have all players back under Rafa as well? I don't know who it was (my bet would be it was HBHR), but someone made the point that it can also be an advantage having the players back and then streaming forward once the ball is retrieved. Some of the best goals we've scored from defending a corner are those where players were rushing forward, were found by Pepe and with two or three passes we scored the goal.

I don't think it's about positions when the corner is taken or about man-marking/zonal-marking. It's about players doing their jobs. Every system has advantages and disadvantages. Just look at the players on the post. Rafa has been getting stick when we didn't have a player there and conceded. Yet, the Mancs once scored simply because we had a player (I think it was Yossi) standing on the post making O'Shea or Tevez be onside to score the winner.

You're right that Rafa had everyone back and wanted them flooding forward if Reina gained possession rather than one on the halfway line. 

My overall point was that the jobs various players were given -- Torres on their best attacking header, Cole in the area while Meireles covers the short corner and Konchesky on the post.   Even if the jobs remained the same, I think they might have been better allocated among those players.

Certainly they Torres and Konchesky could and should have done better, but I suspect they might also have done better at eachother's jobs.

[WorldChampions]

The very idea of Joe Cole in the area seems laughable to me, unless he's on the post and even then that's faintly amusing.

Spot on, but surely Roy decided who should be where in training and it wasn't up to the players to decide.

Just seems like a really bad piece of management in regards to something so simple. Although saying that I was never a fan of getting everyone back into our box for corners like we did under Rafa.

Reina is very good at coming and dealing with crosses with either a catch/punch. So leaving two attacking players up by the halfway line would mean the box would be less crowded (making it easier for him to come for crosses) and also give him the chance to use his world class distribution. It's not like we have an abundance of players that are strong in the air.

Cole,Maxi,Lucas and Johnson are all really poor in the air, I'm confident I could beat them in the air 9/10 never mind Drogba, Davies etc

Saying this I have never managed before so maybe I should shut the fuck up

[liverpooll]

One simple question

If I remember clearly after than Man City defeat, we were angry cuz Hodgson played 4-4-2 against 4-5-1 City team and therefore we got hammered.

I wonder what those people have to say about this match?

[SkinHimHesShite]

One simple question

If I remember clearly after than Man City defeat, we were angry cuz Hodgson played 4-4-2 against 4-5-1 City team and therefore we got hammered.

I wonder what those people have to say about this match?

what do you mean?

442 on the edge of your box is the same as 451 on the edge of your box isnt it? when we playedi n midfield with the extra man, i thought we looked a lot better than the city game. problem was, we didnt try to play enough, because our manager thinks we are shit.

[rafathegaffa]

No pressure on the ball.
No pressure on the ball.
Standing off and letting crosses come in.
No high tempo-pressing.
No pressure on the ball.

No wonder we lost.

[tjtaylor182]

No pressure on the ball.
No pressure on the ball.
Standing off and letting crosses come in.
No high tempo-pressing.
No pressure on the ball.

No wonder we lost.

Exactly

[6BigCups]

Cole,Maxi,Lucas and Johnson are all really poor in the air

Wrong, wrong, wrong

[xerxes1]

Rafa out! (oops he already is out), Roy out!, Phil Brown out! (just practising)

[SMD]

One simple question

If I remember clearly after than Man City defeat, we were angry cuz Hodgson played 4-4-2 against 4-5-1 City team and therefore we got hammered.

I wonder what those people have to say about this match?

If you can't see how different City's central midfield is to United's, as well as to their style of play then I suggest you just stick to posting about non football subjects.

[Red_Irishman]

WHy was konchesky standing behind reina and not actually on the post, if he was on the post it would have been straight at him
as ashley cole seems to do about 10 times a season

Because he is junk. IMO