Topic: That's it, we've had it with the (insert stand name here)

[Fat Scouser]

Pay on the gate is the only way to fix things. I'm one of the 70,000 or however many it is members who have to order tickets months in advance so the club can get the interest on our money. I'd much rather take my chances on the day like we used to. Would help the atmosphere as well, if you're in the ground early what else can you do but have a sing song?

Can't stand the fella, and it's been posted a million times before. But always worth a look when this comes up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy9rw5G_zUA

[spider-neil]

Euro nights and away games are amazing, we need to recreate that for league games 'somehow'.

[mactifosi]

No. Pay on the gate for a singing section done at the front of the kop. With a cheap boys pen next to it, to get the next generation in. But it would cost the club/owners money, so it's not going to happen.

I think you are correct about that.
There has to be a dedicated section that leads the kop and sets the tone for the whole stadium.

I know many people argue against being organised and that Ultras are robotic etc but having experienced it here on the continent, there is a lot to be said for it.
It can be done in an organised fashion without the Ultra's tag, look at clubs like Dortmund.

Kid's section is a must in my opinion, they must be taught by the Kop, to continue the traditions.

The club should be helping to organise this or at least helping fans to donate for large banners and mosaics.
There has to be a partnership between the fans and the club.

[spider-neil]

I think you are correct about that.
There has to be a dedicated section that leads the kop and sets the tone for the whole stadium.

I know many people argue against being organised and that Ultras are robotic etc but having experienced it here on the continent, there is a lot to be said for it.
It can be done in an organised fashion without the Ultra's tag, look at clubs like Dortmund.

Kid's section is a must in my opinion, they must be thought by the Kop, to continue the traditions.

The club should be helping to organise this or at least helping fans to donate for large banners and mosaics.
There has to be a partnership between the fans and the club.

I think this can only be organised with a new stadium or when the old stadium is extended. If you want to make a section for kids or people who want to sing, who moves to make way for them?

[macca007]

No. You've got to have season tickets. It's unfeasible not to. I'd like a standing singing, pay on the gate section. But that's not going to happen, either.

I know it wouldn't happen but I'd still like to see the opening game of a season not included in the season ticket and have pay on the gate. You know it'd sort some moaning tarts out and might even get people having a laugh before the game instead of turning up late cos they can still get in then saying 'wasn't sure whether to come today' which is something I've heard to many fuckin times now!

[mactifosi]

I think this can only be organised with a new stadium or when the old stadium is extended. If you want to make a section for kids or people who want to see, who moves to make way for them?

This is were the club is needed.
It must organise the setup of these sections.

For the kids they could start off with one sector and go from there.

[Jrkopite]

Just imagine the lower Annie as a pay on the gate section though, might encourage a bit of atmosphere next to the away fans.

[Fat Scouser]

Euro nights and away games are amazing, we need to recreate that for league games 'somehow'.

It'll take time, but by having a Boys Pen you get gangs of lads going together. It becomes a habit. They do it for years. I still know a few lads that I got to know in the 60's. Until a couple of years back, I used to still see them at the match. I remember coming up for the Havant and Waterlooville game. "Oh, here he is. Big match fucking Charlie." It sounds daft, but it's shite like that keeps people going all their life. I know a fella who hasn't missed a home league game since Phil Taylor was managing us in the second division. He only stopped going the aways a few years back when he got Parkinson's disease. I'm not sure, but I think Udinese was the first cup game he's ever missed at Anfield. He was down here, visiting his brother, but he shot home for the Stoke game. He's the fella I know with the best record, but I know loads of others with unbelievable attendance records. They're a dying breed. John Mac and a few other lads off here are part of that old school, die hard, tradition. If we don't do something to get kids back in and going with their mates, not on dad and lad tickets, that sort of fan will be like the dodo, gone forever.

But the real problem is... the club doesn't give a fuck. It just wants money. They don't give a fuck who's arse is in the seats, as long as it's willing to pay top dollar. So, don't expect it to get fixed any day soon.

[scared_person]

I think you are correct about that.
There has to be a dedicated section that leads the kop and sets the tone for the whole stadium.

That's the idea behind them turning a blind eye to standing in 304/5/6 (although they seem to be clamping down a little more lately). I don't think it works because it sounds boss if you're at the top of the Kop but it just means that there are fewer people singing elsewhere in the ground and the sound doesn't travel well to the other stands.

The fact is that the club want to attract tourists to Anfield, and tourists (by and large) don't sing.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I'm planning to bring my wee fella (who is 5), and I personally haven't been in 3 or 4 years (live in Northern Ireland), I've showed him videos of Anfield in full flow, and he smiled and thought it looked great, so I'm a bit worried that when I do bring him, and as he is only 5, that he won't be as taken with it, as league games now seem a bit flat to be honest.

I remember my first game was 3-0 against Forest in 1987, my uncle and cousins from Formby brought me, and Kenny scored the opener, and even thought I'm not a native to Liverpool, I felt at home and was MADE to feel at home by those around me....an honorary Scouser for the day, as it were, and even at 9 years of age I could feel the atmosphere and the history around me, sadly now, the aura seems to have waned.

We slag off Arsenal and Chelsea fans, and of course that other horrible lot up the road, but we seem to be no different, it's more or less standard now, for the modern football supporter, and the big change I feel, is that more families now go, and it's not the lads, out for a few bevvies and then the match as much as it was in yesteryear, which fostered more of a party like atmosphere.

That's just my personal opinion, as right or as wrong as it is.

[liversaint]

Any one bemoaning the lack of atmosphere on the Kop/Upper Annie should try the upper centenary. More atmosphere on the moon

[Fat Scouser]

I know many people argue against being organised and that Ultras are robotic etc

Look at old film of the kop. It looks like a bag of spaghetti, but, unbelievable as it is, there was a definite order about things. And though we had great moments of spontaneous wit, there was a sort of organisation and order to our songs.

I can't be arsed going through it again, but songs and chants were done in order. That's what happens when you have the same people standing together week in week out. 

[Fat Scouser]

Any one bemoaning the lack of atmosphere on the Kop/Upper Annie should try the upper centenary. More atmosphere on the moon

I actually find it dead funny in there. The moaning of some of the aul bastards has me in stitches, but then, a lot of them aul fellas up there are the lads that made the kop what it was in the 60's and 70's. We've lost that line of progression. That's half the problem right there.

[redgriffin73]

Just wish there was a way to get in on the away tickets. You always need something like 13 away games recorded on your season ticket to be eligible for a ticket.

I know this is a discussion about home games, but this bit isn't quite right. Get yourself in the ticket forum on here and you'll see how easy it is to get to some of our aways, quite a few drop to low credits (and this is for Members as well as STs now). A lot of people have built up from zero to ten or more credits in recent years (albeit thanks to the Hodgson 'era'). You just need to be on the ball.

[DG]

The atmosphere really does bother me.

I left Liverpool back in 2007, I actually took the train to Stansted from Lime Street just a day or two after Torres was announced. The season before I had attended not every home game but close to it, and even then the atmosphere bothered me. The european nights were absolutely fantastic. Even though I usually sit upper centenary close to anfield road I could hear the kop three times as loud as the away fans, and every time I did I would join in. And I did that because I knew that most of the people around me would also join in. But something was lost. And it was lost far before that.

I'm not against tourism but the one time it did bother me was during the 05/06-season. Maybe it was because of Istanbul, but if you were having a pint before the game and someone came up talking to you, it was almost 50/50 that their accent was scouse. I may be exaggerating but that's how it felt. And even though I don't give a fuck where you're from, when we were in the ground the singing was scouse. So where were the other accents, the ones filling large parts of the grounds? Well, they weren't singing were they. And it started to bother me.

I think it was Blackburn at home back in 2006, shit game, ended 1-1. Actually, I think it was Sheffield. Anyway, Anfield was a library and I thought fuck it, so I stood up and tried to get FOAR going. Just because every single person in the ground will know it. People around me, once again in the upper centenary, looked at me as if I was an absolute idiot and a steward told me to sit down. Can you believe that? Told me to sit the fuck down. And when he did, I didn't give a fuck whether his accent was scouse. It's just awful. And that's probably the last time I tried to get a song going.

These days a trip to Anfield costs me a fortune because I live and work in Sweden. There are a few Liverpool supporters here that I'm in touch with and they're all good, so I never watch a game alone really. I went with one of them to watch Arsenal, his first trip to Anfield. I took him out drinking the night before and he loved the city, the people. Then when we woke up he was absolutely buzzing (I was slightly hungover mind). He had waited his whole life for the trip (never had much money, the lad) and I think he loved every moment. I wish I remember that moment myself, the first time I was getting to L4 seeing the kop, first time hearing YNWA. This was right after the man city game so I was quite optimistic myself, about the game anyway.

So we get into the ground right when the players are walking off the pitch for their warm up. YNWA goes on when they come back out and it was as fantastic as he thought it would be - in fact, YNWA against Arsenal was impressive. And after that, Anfield goes quiet and the Arsenal fans are singing loud and clear. And for the first time in my entire life I felt ashamed. I've been ashamed before, but I've never been ashamed to be a Liverpool fan. Not ever. But I couldn't help it. I had brought my mate for the first time to Anfield and I felt like I had some sort of responsibility, he had saved for over a year to get there, but Anfield was the library I saw for the first time in 2006. And we were surrounded by scousers, talking like me, seen the things I've seen, but they just sat quiet telling Nuri Sahin to fuck off. Pissed me off, and when we walked out of the ground I think my mate was feeling a bit down, disheartened. Not because of the result I don't think, but because Anfield wasn't what I had told him it would be. I had told my mate about the european nights, about the big games vs Everton and Utd, and then when he finally gets there he sees nothing of it. And it certainly wasn't his fault, he tried to sing more than I did. Maybe because he hadn't experienced what I experienced back in 2006. Can't get myself to sing alone anymore.

We've been humiliated on the pitch, we've got dark days in our past, I've seen our fans sing awful songs, I've seen our fans do awful things during away trips, but the first time I ever felt ashamed of being a Liverpool supporter was that one day. And I hope it will never happen again, because something was lost that day and eventually all will be lost. And that will be the last time I bother paying 600 quid for a trip to anfield.

[red135]

im a student and i haven't gone to a home game in a few years; i tend to try to get tickets for 1 or 2 aways a year. we need to be realistic about the away support and how we perceive ourselves. as has been said in this thread, it is the norm for away fans to outsing home fans so i dont feel people should eulogise about our away support (like at wba the other week). i think a major issue is that we have no songs anymore and that has prompted a major change in atmosphere from ~2007/8 to now. there must have been a similar number of day-trippers 5 years ago but everyone on the kop was bouncing to the torres song. is it just me or is RTK less prevalent these days too? it seems like less people are wearing red to the match and there are rarely flags behind the first row of the kop. i give some credence to the idea that people will sing when the results pick up (particularly the day-trippers who expect to be entertained) but then you have a situation like the league cup final last year where FOAR was sung a few dozen times (the chorus only ofcourse) and nothing accompanied it. it is cripplingly frustrating that players like agger and skrtel dont have songs.
there is a real danger, with the current number of transfers in and out, and the atmosphere at anfield that we could lose our identity when carra + gerrard move on. 

[macca007]

That arsenal match was a funny one I remember. Right after the transfer window had ended with all that malarkey and an early kick off which never helps but everyone went to that moanin before the match had kicked off more than usual.

[west_london_red]

We slag off Arsenal and Chelsea fans, and of course that other horrible lot up the road, but we seem to be no different, it's more or less standard now, for the modern football supporter, and the big change I feel, is that more families now go, and it's not the lads, out for a few bevvies and then the match as much as it was in yesteryear, which fostered more of a party like atmosphere.

That's just my personal opinion, as right or as wrong as it is.

Its not just famillies, its the type of famillies that go. Your average working class familly cant afford the £150 quit it costs in tickets for a familly of 4 to go to the game so they dont and you end up with a load of middle class mums and dads on a day out with the kids.

And the amount of teenage girls I've seen at the game spending the entire game on their phones tapping away (i saw one reading a book once during a game!) during the game is infuriating. What could be so important that it cant wait til HT/FT???

[Fat Scouser]

That's just my personal opinion, as right or as wrong as it is.

It's right. It's something all the big clubs have in common. Well, why would a day tripper go to Stoke, or the likes?

But if we don't want to end up with some aul fella on the pitch, doing a karaoke YNWA, and urging the crowd to sing, like our friends down the road with their road song, we have to go back to what made the atmosphere so special in the first place.

It's not unique to us. I've been reading about attendances in Brazil and how ordinary fans are being priced out with the world cup coming up. It's greed that's fucking it up. But clubs and players won't give up a few bob. So, that's that. No point in moaning about it. It is what it is... bollocksed.

[DG]

That arsenal match was a funny one I remember. Right after the transfer window had ended with all that malarkey and an early kick off which never helps but everyone went to that moanin before the match had kicked off more than usual.

Aye, I sat in the village having a pint before the game and people went on as if we had already lost the game, and our season was over. "We've got no back up striker mate and knowing our luck Suarez will break his leg won't he". Well fuck off and give your ticket to someone who actually bothers to believe we might achieve something.

[WOOLTONIAN]

It's worse for us oldies I reckon, because we know what it used to be like.

It's certainly a long way from penny apples.......

We are the Road End the pride of Merseyside,
We do all the fighting while the Kopites run and hide.

We are the Road End, we all went to Rome,
We all went to West Ham while the Kopites stayed at home.

Can you hear the kopites sing no-oh no-oh
Can you hear the kopites sing
I cant hear a fuckin thing oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
SSSHHHHHHHH  !

Kopites are gobshites Kopites are gobshites

Two decades of standing our ground
Fightin for our cause and singin our fuckin hearts out
for what ?

For you lot to piss on the foundations of greatness we laid

you make me feel very proud

I'll update a song for you

Oh I travelled up to Anfield with a laptop on my knee
An i-phone in my pocket and a gizmo for my wii
Old Road Enders dont you cry for me
I'm leaving 10 mins early and fuck your history

[Fat Scouser]

I'm leaving 10 mins early

Sit down yer bums, sit down yer bums, sit down yer bums, sit down.

[west_london_red]

Since our away support is better in terms of singing and creating an atmosphere, why not try and group the regular away game attendees together at Anfield so that we have somewhere where the songs can begin from and then the rest of the stadium joing in?

[alangc]

Im from belfast and try to get to four or five games a seasons, costs me atleast 300quid a trip, was over at the city match was sitting in the mainstand, was singing my heart out and supporting my team when i was asked by a local in front of me to stop singing so loud, i was in a bit of shock and agreed but i didnt stop singing. The while stand was bouncing at that match, one of the best ive been too and you could see the guy was raging and wanted a nice quiet seat to watch the match!

[helmboy_nige]

Any one bemoaning the lack of atmosphere on the Kop/Upper Annie should try the upper centenary. More atmosphere on the moon

I've sat all over the ground (even in the away section...) and I'd echo that sentiment.  Upper centenary is awful.  It feels like the further from the pitch you are the more ranters you get who just spout nonsense.

I've had good and bad times in the upper annie.  Kop was ok on sunday, but then I was in the 'standing' blocks.  Weirdly, some of the best times I've had are in the Main Stand... although the views can be 'mixed'.

I have to admit that Sunday was the first time I'd heard quite a lot of dissent against Rodgers in the crowd.  It wasn't massive, and there weren't people screaming at the pitch, but it was noticeable that a fair few chaps (particularly older, long timers) were 'debating' Rodgers in a less than positive way.

Fact is that our atmosphere will only improve when we start winning.  Our atmosphere is still better than most clubs, but it also still suffers from poor form on the pitch.

[liversaint]

Since our away support is better in terms of singing and creating an atmosphere, why not try and group the regular away game attendees together at Anfield so that we have somewhere where the songs can begin from and then the rest of the stadium joing in?

A lot of the away lads have jibbed most of the home games

[DAYDAY]

Sick to death of saying this and nothing has ever been done
Every time we play a game thats on tv the away end can be overheard without fail
Man Utd and Everton stand out more than other away fans

The major problem and its never been rectified is the camera gantry and microphone position
The camera gantry is not central and the majority of the microphones are positioned
At the Anny Rd End Hence the Away fans sounding louder on Television
It is totaly immpossible for 2 thousand fans to sound louder than the other 42 thousand
If people in the know want to promote Liverpool football club and make Anfield sound great again
Get the electricians in and move the Microphones closer to the Kop so the Away fans cant
be heard at all
The picture below shows the camera gantry and there are also alot of microphones up there
all probably pointing at the Rd End

[Rococo]

It doesnt help in the Upper Annie when the club sell the tickets the way they do.  Members with history in the first sale stuck out on the wings and then when its opened to all members or General they sell the more central blocks.

This is a big issue for me.  The bulk sales have been pretty crap for me - can never get a decent spec.

I've used the general sale a few times this season and last and there's been tonnes of Kop tickets left.  You then get a situation like yesterday when there's loads of people there as passengers.

[Kwaideng]

I don't go the match anymore. I took my family a few years ago and they enjoyed the trip but during the match my missus and my daughter were taking photos with their phones and buzzing off the occasion like the rest of the  people.

 Myself, I detested it because I made the mistake of trying to watch the football. I had a kid waving a fuckin flag sat next to me with his Dad talking utter shite and behind  a party over from Northern Ireland who were just talking all through the game. Everyone up and down getting hot dogs and coke......

i have been going to Anfield since 1956 and I went to watch a football match, not to listen to fans or to eat a fuckin pie but to look at a game... a game that I played and wanted to be able to play better.

I would love the fuckin lot of it to collapse and end up in financial ruin.  some of these youngsters might get the chance to put their burgers down and get out and play the game.

Modern Pro Football is mean nasty little game these days  that brings out the worst in people I fuckin hate it ...........

I can't help myself from following the Reds though like the rest of the sad aul arses ...you know...Being:Liverpool.

....

[Jrkopite]

Whatever ideas we come up with to try and get things back the way they were we're wasting our time really. The thing is, it was unique wasn't it and it wasn't contrived, it was a natural thing. Bill Shankly coming to Liverpool, the Cavern, The Beatles,the beginning of youth culture, how could you re create that?
My first game at Anfield was like a psychedelic experience, the noise of the crowd building minute by minute, you could see a cloud of steam coming off the Kop.,....
Even in the eighties and nineties  there were some great times, remember the Auxerre game? Anyway, it's up to the young ones to do it now, but with the current ticket prices what chance have they got?
Gonna stop rambling on and have me Horlicks now.

[Kwaideng]

Whatever ideas we come up with to try and get things back the way they were we're wasting our time really. The thing is, it was unique wasn't it and it wasn't contrived, it was a natural thing. Bill Shankly coming to Liverpool, the Cavern, The Beatles,the beginning of youth culture, how could you re create that?
My first game at Anfield was like a psychedelic experience, the noise of the crowd building minute by minute, you could see a cloud of steam coming off the Kop.,....
Even in the eighties and nineties  there were some great times, remember the Auxerre game? Anyway, it's up to the young ones to do it now, but with the current ticket prices what chance have they got?
Gonna stop rambling on and have me Horlicks now.

Yep...that about it mate.

[Pilchard]

But the real problem is... the club doesn't give a fuck. It just wants money. They don't give a fuck who's arse is in the seats, as long as it's willing to pay top dollar. So, don't expect it to get fixed any day soon.

This is right.

Ive written before that if it was for money reasons the owners (certainly the last lot) would relocate the team to London.

LFC is no longer a local team. We are a team that still has a reasonable local following. But in the money world, that isnt important. Took me years to come round to this but there it is.

As for singing at games, theres probably as many people who want to sing as there has ever been, its just that now, due to the way tickets are allocateed, you dont sit with your mates, or even like minded people.

As for having a laugh at what away fans are singing, theres nothing wrong with that. I love hearing fresh new songs from other fans as much as I love hearing fresh new songs from our own. Im not saying you should join in with the opposition, but you can still chuckle,

But pay on the gate? Christ, Id love to see that happen. It would stop a lot of the touts for a start and that can only be a good thing.

And thinking it through, if people arrive early, theyre hostage to paying club prices for drink and food. There is no downside as far as the clubs concerned.

Thomas Cooks might be out of pocket though.

[smig]

The atmsophere's been shite for ages. When are the people at the top going to stop deluding themselves that Anfield's some sort of cauldron of noise and get young lads back into the ground at affordable prices? Fucking greedy bastards.

[Jrkopite]

Modern Pro Football is mean nasty little game these days  that brings out the worst in people I fuckin hate it ...........



....

That's true, the game itself has changed. I find myself hating every other club, the fans, the players, never used to feel like that.
I can't listen to the phone ins, can't watch MOTD without wanting to kick in the telly....

[Only Me]

Sick to death of saying this and nothing has ever been done
Every time we play a game thats on tv the away end can be overheard without fail
Man Utd and Everton stand out more than other away fans

The major problem and its never been rectified is the camera gantry and microphone position
The camera gantry is not central and the majority of the microphones are positioned
At the Anny Rd End Hence the Away fans sounding louder on Television
It is totaly immpossible for 2 thousand fans to sound louder than the other 42 thousand
If people in the know want to promote Liverpool football club and make Anfield sound great again
Get the electricians in and move the Microphones closer to the Kop so the Away fans cant
be heard at all
The picture below shows the camera gantry and there are also alot of microphones up there
all probably pointing at the Rd End

I was a regular matchgoer from about 1976 til about 2007.

H&G did for me, and I've been back very rarely since.

Went with my lad yesterday for the first time in about 2 years, and my how the place has gone to the dogs. We were in the Main Stand, and without wishing to go into details as to how, we ended up in the press seats behind the Directors Box, right on half way. So we were axactly the same distance from the Kop as we were from the Stoke fans.

Atmosphere was fucking woeful, and I have to say mate that you're kidding yourself. The reason 2,000 people can make more noise than 42,000 is because only about 150 of the 42k make any noise. You could have put the mikes behind the kop goal yesterday and it wouldnt have made any difference.

What struck me was the change in the demographics, even since 2007 [and things were well on the slide then]. Full of foreigners/OOTS/families, with 99% of them more interested in using their cameraphones than their tonsils.

Couldnt believe how shite it was. It was like the theatre, only worse, because at the theatre I dont have to watch fucking Stoke City.

FSG must be delighted with the amount of shopping that gets done by that type of fan, and that's had an effect on the atmosphere, because thery're too busy organising how many hotdogs they're going to get at half time to actually be arsed about supporting the team.

Dont even think pay on the gate is the answer - the tourists would just queue up all night a-la Wimbledon, so they could experience the wackers on the kop first hand.

Changing times and all that, and I'm the first to admit to being a narky auld arse, but where's the fucking soul gone?

And this is really not anti OOT, it just stands to reason for me, that without gangs of local lads going with their mates from the age of about 12 up, the club just becomes a form of entertainment brand [to be moaned about when things dont go well] rather than a rallying point for civic pride like it used to be.

Be a long fucking time before I go back.

[smig]

Since our away support is better in terms of singing and creating an atmosphere, why not try and group the regular away game attendees together at Anfield so that we have somewhere where the songs can begin from and then the rest of the stadium joing in?

Ged Poynton would have a heart attack if anybody ever had the temerity to suggest that to him.

[Phil M]

Bring back Torres or invent a new bounce.

In all seriousness a lot of good points raised here but worryingly you could go 5 years and we were saying the same things. It's gotten progressively worse over time and there's many contributing factors, the modern game, ticket pricing and allocation, kick off times, the previous ownership regime and the Hodgson era.
We have a new manager, new playing staff and a new brand of football which should in turn bring some enthusiasm to the ground and a sense of optimism but why aren't we seeing it from the stands especially when after 23 years the truth is out and hopefully justice will soon follow for the 96. I'm proud to be a Red, it seems some matchgoers no longer see it as a privilege to be on the Kop or at Anfield.

[laddo]

Changing when YNWA gets played. Worst decision ever.

[AJL]

it seems some matchgoers no longer see it as a privilege to be on the Kop or at Anfield.

Nail/Head

[Fat Scouser]

The atmsophere's been shite for ages. When are the people at the top going to stop deluding themselves that Anfield's some sort of cauldron of noise and get young lads back into the ground at affordable prices? Fucking greedy bastards.

It's media driven bollocks. They've got a lot of money invested in getting as many world wide networks to broadcast it as possible. A Kop cauldron is nothing more than a selling point.

The whole shebang is about nothing but money. Reading through the comments, young and old, oot and local, they all agree on that. And...

I would love the fuckin lot of it to collapse and end up in financial ruin. 

....

Sadly, that's about the only way it will ever change.