Author Topic: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)  (Read 4052 times)

Offline Samie

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World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« on: October 22, 2023, 01:14:17 am »

Offline Sangria

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2023, 06:42:12 am »


If you go by homicide rates per 100,000 population, for cities with 300k or more and whose countries aren't at war, Mexico have 9 of the top 10. For the rest of the top 20, South Africa dominate among the non-Mexican cities. Then you get to Brazil, who dominate the next tier. That's 3 countries where you don't want to live.

In another table, Fresnillo (Mexico) tops with 202.05 homicides per 100k population. In comparison, Glasgow is the most dangerous city in the UK, with 3.10 homicides per 100k (Liverpool has 1.19, London 1.38). Kingston (Jamaica) is the most dangerous capital in the world with 64.17, followed by Cape Town (South Africa) with 64.00. Another table has it the other way round, with Cape Town (63.00) ahead of Kingston (58.46).
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Offline BER

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2023, 12:14:53 pm »
AKA Cities most corrupted by politicians and police forces.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2023, 12:47:02 pm »
Baltimore, represent!

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2023, 12:59:11 pm »
Could 11-13 and a few others not be named for legal reasons? :D

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2023, 01:40:07 pm »
I'm not surprised to see Johannesburg in there, I've been in South Africa once, and I had two days there, it's possibly the biggest shithole I've ever set foot in, and I lived in Manchester for 5 years!

Offline Chakan

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2023, 01:41:42 pm »
I'm not surprised to see Johannesburg in there, I've been in South Africa once, and I had two days there, it's possibly the biggest shithole I've ever set foot in, and I lived in Manchester for 5 years!

Depends where you go and what you do there. I lived there for most of my adult life, it can be a beautiful place to experience, as I said it depends where you go. It's also not really a tourist city, it's mainly where people to go to earn money as the salaries are higher.

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2023, 01:47:31 pm »
Depends where you go and what you do there. I lived there for most of my adult life, it can be a beautiful place to experience, as I said it depends where you go. It's also not really a tourist city, it's mainly where people to go to earn money as the salaries are higher.
Yeah I understand that, I was over seeing a good friend of mine I worked with in Cape Town, I stayed with him and he and everyone else I met warned me not to go to "Jo'burg" (as they called it), Cape Town is beautiful though.

Offline Chakan

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2023, 01:59:30 pm »
Yeah I understand that, I was over seeing a good friend of mine I worked with in Cape Town, I stayed with him and he and everyone else I met warned me not to go to "Jo'burg" (as they called it), Cape Town is beautiful though.

:lmao Capetonians hate people from Jo'burg and visa versa, so no surprises there.

Capetown is beautiful no doubt, it's the tourist city, but it's also got the same problems as Johannesburg, they just hide it better because of the mountain and the ocean brah.

Unfortunately crime is everywhere in SA, no denying that. It's the complete separation of the lower class to upper class. It's a stark divide, so people resort to crime and unfortunately it can be violent crime. Also the corruption in the government leaves a lot of broken promises and people in poverty, coupled with the power issues from Eskom and it doesn't make good viewing.

I went back there last September with my wife and father and we had a fantastic time. Went to Capetown, Kynsna, Johannesburg and Kruger park. Awesome awesome time, and probably will go back in the near future sometime. You take precautions though, don't do stupid things and you should be fine.

Offline Sangria

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2023, 02:00:34 pm »
I'm not surprised to see Johannesburg in there, I've been in South Africa once, and I had two days there, it's possibly the biggest shithole I've ever set foot in, and I lived in Manchester for 5 years!

Most of the main South African cities are in the top 20. Mainly in the 11-20 group, as Mexico dominates the top 10.
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Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2023, 04:08:47 pm »
Quote
Readers added context:

The crime index used here is based on the perception of the users of the website “numbeo.com”. The index does not take real crime into account.


https://twitter.com/stats_feed/status/1715698132347126187?s=46

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Offline Samie

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2023, 04:16:23 pm »
HOW DARE YOU!

What is a real crime anyway mate?  ;D

Offline Chakan

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2023, 04:25:28 pm »
HOW DARE YOU!

What is a real crime anyway mate?  ;D

Your posting.

Offline Samie

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2023, 04:27:26 pm »
 ;D

Dickhead!

Offline Chakan

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2023, 04:31:45 pm »
;D

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2023, 11:01:30 pm »
I'm surprised Chicago isn't in the top 20 and the highest City in the USA.

Mexico should be classed as a failed State, Cartels run that country. The Politicians and Law enforcement in Mexico are useless against the Cartels.
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Offline Rhi

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2023, 08:49:55 pm »
I’ve only been to 5 of them. Slightly disappointed. Although I don’t know why it skips loads of numbers 😂
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Offline thaddeus

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2023, 09:08:11 pm »
I'd still probably holiday in Rio or Tijuana ahead of Avdiyivka or Bakhmut  ;)

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2023, 10:05:30 pm »
I’ve only been to 5 of them. Slightly disappointed. Although I don’t know why it skips loads of numbers 😂

Only been to two. And one of them was just the airport. :D

Intrepid explorer I am not.

Offline jambutty

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2023, 12:37:34 pm »
I've done #1, 6, 14 and 33.

Only San Pedro was scary.
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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2023, 01:16:29 pm »
I've done #1, 6, 14 and 33.

Only San Pedro was scary.

Is that Honduras?

Offline Rhi

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2023, 01:22:36 pm »
Is that Honduras?

Yeah. It's one of the ones I've been to as well and agree that it is sketchy as fuck. Do not recommend ;D.
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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2023, 01:43:49 pm »
Only one for me, Durban, and I was only there for one night. It did feel a bit scary as the hotel we were in was in a pretty dodgy area.

Offline jambutty

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2024, 11:37:49 pm »
Dunno where to put this awful news, so I'll say Tehran to get it on here.


Iran begins new year with dizzying rate of executions
Opinion by Struan Stevenson
10h
© by Tino Romano/EPA-EFE


Jan. 11 (UPI) -- 2024 began in Iran just as 2023 ended, with a dizzying rate of executions.

A Kurdish political prisoner was executed on Jan. 4 after enduring 14 years in prison. The number of executions recorded in 2023 reached at least 864, according to the People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran (PMOI/MEK), the highest figure in the last eight years and about 34% higher than in 2022, when 646 people were executed. However, as many executions in Iran are carried out in secret, the actual number is likely to be much higher.

The frenzy of executions continued to escalate throughout 2023, with 313 taking place in the last three months of the year. Clearly, this alarming death toll is geared toward frightening the restive population into passivity.

In a further sign of the regime's desperate plunge into misogynist immorality, last week Roya Heshmati, 33, was sentenced to the vicious punishment of 74 lashes, on the fictitious charge of improper veiling. The judiciary's news agency, Mizan, said Saturday, "The sentence was carried out in accordance with the law and the holy Sharia. The specific areas (for flogging punishment) have been clearly specified in the law and the verdict."

The theocratic regime has also intensified its actions against political prisoners and their families. Last week, Iran's longest-detained female political prisoner, Maryam Akbari Monfared, a mother of three, faced a retrial. She was sentenced to an additional three years in prison after already serving 14 years of a 15-year term. Her imprisonment was a result of her efforts to seek justice for the execution of three brothers and a sister in the 1980s, including the 1988 massacre in which 30,000 political prisoners, mostly activists and supporters of the main democratic opposition movement the MEK, were sent to the gallows.

Outside Iran, the regime is responsible for more killings. With the Middle East in turmoil over the Israel-Hamas war, following the Oct. 7 massacre of Israelis by Hamas, the regime is on a crusade of warmongering in the region. Israeli retaliation in Gaza has led to over 22,000 deaths to date, including thousands of innocent men, women and children. Whole towns and cities in Gaza have been razed to the ground, inflaming tensions in the Middle East and worldwide.

But, at the center of this grim litany of assassinations, bomb blasts, drone attacks and outright war, sits the head of the snake: the Iranian regime. Since hijacking the popular revolution that overthrew the sah in 1979, the mullahs' Islamic Republic has exported death and destruction across the Middle East and worldwide. The theocratic regime has poured money, men and military materiel into Bashar al-Assad's bloody civil war in Syria, the Houthi rebels in Yemen, the brutal Shi'ia militias in Iraq and the terrorist Hezbollah in Lebanon as well as Hamas in Gaza.

Consolidating their pariah status, the mullahs are openly backing and directing the ongoing drone attacks on commercial shipping in the Red Sea by the Houthi rebels in Yemen, even launching their own kamikaze drone strike on Dec. 23 against an Indian cargo vessel, the MV Pluto, a chemical tanker flying the Liberian flag and operated by a Dutch entity. The Houthis are an extremist Shi'ite movement, heavily armed and trained by the Quds force. As well as Iran, the Houthis count amongst their allies the usual suspects of Russia, North Korea and Syria.

As the internal situation deteriorates in Iran, resistance units of the MEK have also recently stepped up their activities nationwide. In addition to widespread support at home, the MEK has massive domestic and international backing. Recently, 455 former world leaders, judges, Nobel laureates, United Nations officials, human rights and legal experts and NGOs signed a letter denouncing Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi's planned participation in the U.N. Refugee Forum in Geneva, forcing him to cancel his visit.

The mullahs fear and loathe the MEK, whom they see as the only viable and organized entity with the wherewithal to topple the regime and restore peace, justice, freedom and democracy to the beleaguered Iranian people. In response, they have launched wave after wave of assaults on the MEK, even resorting to assassinations, firebomb attacks and attempted terrorist bombings in Europe.

Now, in a last desperate bid, the mullahs have launched a bogus trial in absentia in Tehran of 104 exiled MEK members in the hope that their sham convictions will persuade Western democracies to place restrictions on the principal opposition movement to the ruling theocracy.

Reports have also emerged about how the mullahs' regime is using its cyber army to manipulate reports on social media, removing references to human rights atrocities and other crimes. Apparently, many of the edits have targeted the English language Wikipedia page of the MEK, including deleting references to the 1988 massacre of more than 30,000 political prisoners, a crime against humanity being investigated by the U.N.

With the blood of innocents dripping from their hands, the mullahs should remember the apt words of U.S. President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who said: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable."

Struan Stevenson represented Scotland in the European Parliament from 1999 to 2014. He served as president of the Parliament's Delegation for Relations with Iraq (2009-14) and chairman of the Friends of a Free Iran Intergroup (2004-14). He is chairman of the In Search of Justice committee on the protection of political freedoms in Iran, coordinator of the Campaign for Iran Change, an international lecturer on the Middle East, president of the European Iraqi Freedom Association and author of "Dictatorship and Revolution. Iran - A Contemporary History." The views and opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the author.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-begins-new-year-with-dizzying-rate-of-executions/ar-AA1mOgxU?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ec50148ebca54d56a090ab48280469b5&ei=49
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Offline Nobby Reserve

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2024, 11:24:58 am »
Is Stoke on the list?
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Offline Fortneef

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2024, 12:46:42 pm »
by way of comparision, 19,000 civilians died in London in WW2, out of a population of 8 million.

Lets crudely simplify that to 4,000 deaths a year
4000 / 8 million  is    50  / 100k


..so living in Baltimore is more dangerous than being bombed by nazis ?    or have i fucked up the maths ?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2024, 12:50:42 pm by Fortneef »

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2024, 01:18:48 pm »
by way of comparision, 19,000 civilians died in London in WW2, out of a population of 8 million.

Lets crudely simplify that to 4,000 deaths a year
4000 / 8 million  is    50  / 100k


..so living in Baltimore is more dangerous than being bombed by nazis ?    or have i fucked up the maths ?

Yep I think your maths is off. For a start the vast majority of the civilian deaths occurred during the Blitz which only lasted for about 8 months. Plus the prewar population reduced as people left the city for the countryside.

So if we say 14,000 killed during 8 months from a population of 7million. You would have a fatality rate of 21,000 per 7million, or 300 / 100k

Offline Fortneef

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2024, 01:21:14 pm »
Oh that changes it for the bawlmers.  You're safer than londoners were in the blitz !  (but not over the whole war)

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2024, 02:20:25 pm »
I'd still like to go to a fair few of the, like.

Offline jambutty

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2024, 02:33:06 pm »
Don't be afraid of Baltimore.  I like it and will visit again.
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Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2024, 03:04:01 pm »
I get lists like this are just based on certain metrics but that also means they can be misguided in some ways calling them 'the most dangerous cities'.

Some stand true but some others such as in South Africa, Brazil and others, a lot of the crime is isolated in certain areas and these cities are very safe if you know what you are doing / having common sense. While you will get many many other cities in the world, not on the list, where you could be in trouble just stepping onto any street in minutes.

To take cities in Brazil for example, places like Fortaleza, Rio and Recife, the majority of crimes there, especially murders, drug and gun crimes happen in isolated areas within favelas, etc. If you are a tourist you may be wary of a mugging on a Rio beach and that's if you are waving shit around mostly, no worse than you'd get on a Paris metro or Barcelona street. If you want to head into a favela and fuck around though then you'll soon find out about the crime rates  ;D

Point is I suppose is that these lists are not really indicative of a place as a whole as 'dangerous', as some areas will be fucked but if you know what you are doing in a place like Rio or Fortaleza you can go thousands of times and never have any issues whatsoever.

I guess though these lists are based on crime stats and on that only they are of course true, it's just a bit disingenuous for me to label them 'the most dangerous cities' as most would take a day in Cape town, Baltimore or Rio over a walk through Mogadishu, Benghazi or Kabul any day  ;D

Offline Indomitable_Carp

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2024, 03:10:43 pm »
All of that might well be true. But my experience of Chile is that, while most crimes are committed in certain areas, there is still a general fear of crime that permeates everyday life. Houses are built like fortresses, with everything from razor wire to electric fences, or else gated communities with guards if you have the money. People constantly talk about crime and are scared to venture to certain places even if they'll likely be safe. And despite Chile being perhaps the safest South American country, my wife has been mugged there and many of her friends have been mugged. She has also had members of her extended family subject to home invasion.

My point being, high levels of crime feed into a general decrease in quality of life as even people who are unlikely to be subjected to crime continue to live in daily fear of it. I've never been the victim of a crime walking around Chile. But being a gringo who sticks out like a sore thumb just by the way I look, I'm definitely constantly aware of the possibility when I'm there. It's also why I have little desire to move there.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2024, 03:13:28 pm by Indomitable_Carp »

Offline jambutty

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2024, 03:45:12 pm »
I'm hearing similar things from rellos in Bermuda.

Scousers, living there for 30 years, mugged twice.  Anti-white crime is way up, many leaving their places for rent.
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Offline Andy82lfc

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2024, 05:05:16 pm »
All of that might well be true. But my experience of Chile is that, while most crimes are committed in certain areas, there is still a general fear of crime that permeates everyday life. Houses are built like fortresses, with everything from razor wire to electric fences, or else gated communities with guards if you have the money. People constantly talk about crime and are scared to venture to certain places even if they'll likely be safe. And despite Chile being perhaps the safest South American country, my wife has been mugged there and many of her friends have been mugged. She has also had members of her extended family subject to home invasion.

My point being, high levels of crime feed into a general decrease in quality of life as even people who are unlikely to be subjected to crime continue to live in daily fear of it. I've never been the victim of a crime walking around Chile. But being a gringo who sticks out like a sore thumb just by the way I look, I'm definitely constantly aware of the possibility when I'm there. It's also why I have little desire to move there.

That's true mate and not disputing that, there definitely is a raised awareness and fear in these places, but I was trying to get at a general level of safety compared to walking through Mogadishu or Kabul for example, which is just not even comparable in terms of 'danger' for me.

I get your point though and people in these places do live around there own level of crime relatively 100%. Most (upper working/middle class) Brazilians in cities for example will almost all live in apartment blocks with security, uber/drive everywhere, not walk anywhere at night you shouldn't, etc, etc. Most live around these things though and travelling from work to home to the mall to the beach, restaurant, bar, on a daily basis and you just forget and never see anything by not taking risks (and not being unlucky). In Sao Paulo I have mates who live on streets with houses and secure gates, not much more, and it's as safe as you like (at least feels that way), and many areas there you can walk around without much problem, it can just depend on where you go/avoid. 

On the flip side though some I know have left the country because of pretty much what you are saying, as they like the comforts and generally higher safety here in Europe, being able to walk around wherever they like for example. To me though I would never class some of these places as the most dangerous cities in the world, and it should be 'the cities with the most areas of crime' instead really, but I guess I'm just being pedantic.  ;D

Is it Santiago you are talking about or elsewhere? I've been to Santiago a few times and also found it really safe as a tourist, almost European, but yes tons of muggings and obviously not lived there so don't have a clue in that regard. Valparaiso on the other hand felt proper moody, but I guess that was down to me also not knowing that area at all.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2024, 10:01:53 pm by Andy82lfc »

Offline lobsterboy

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2024, 06:01:59 pm »
London is according to that awful taz shaped old bag the Tories want as mayor.
She is a fucking loon though.

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2024, 09:04:20 am »
That's true mate and not disputing that, there definitely is a raised awareness and fear in these places, but I was trying to get at a general level of safety compared to walking through Mogadishu or Kabul for example, which is just not even comparable in terms of 'danger' for me.

I get your point though and people in these places do live around there own level of crime relatively 100%. Most (upper working/middle class) Brazilians in cities for example will almost all live in apartment blocks with security, uber/drive everywhere, not walk anywhere at night you shouldn't, etc, etc. Most live around these things though and travelling from work to home to the mall to the beach, restaurant, bar, on a daily basis and you just forget and never see anything by not taking risks (and not being unlucky). In Sao Paulo I have mates who live on streets with houses and secure gates, not much more, and it's as safe as you like (at least feels that way), and many areas there you can walk around without much problem, it can just depend on where you go/avoid.

On the flip side though some I know have left the country because of pretty much what you are saying, as they like the comforts and generally higher safety here in Europe, being able to walk around wherever they like for example. To me though I would never class some of these places as the most dangerous cities in the world, and it should be 'the cities with the most areas of crime' instead really, but I guess I'm just being pedantic.  ;D

Absolutely, I agree with most of that. I think one of the things about high levels of crime is that, by being fed constant stories of crime by the media or knowing the occasional person who has actually been a victim of crime, the level of paranoia can quickly overtake the actual threat. For sure in Chile (and Brazil and every other country where millions of people go about their daily business without becoming victims of crime) it is possible to stay safe and still live well.

And then, just to flip that on its head, I now live in Barcelona which is probably the safest city I've lived in (including Liverpool). The threat of violent crime here is very low. You can be pickpocketed in central areas if you're not careful (though generally pickpockets stick to unwitting or drunk tourists) - but I'd rather replace a stolen phone than be attacked. Otherwise I can walk around at any time of day in most areas and have very little to worry about. But that doesn't stop some locals in Barcelona being genuinely afraid to venture into city centre areas like Raval. If you talk to some people from richer areas, you'd think barrios like El Raval are as dodgy as Caracas. Which is just pure bollocks.

Quote
Is it Santiago you are talking about or elsewhere? I've been to Santiago a few times and also found it really safe as a tourist, almost European, but yes tons of muggings and obviously not lived there so don't have a clue in that regard. Valparaiso on the other hand felt proper moody, but I guess that was down to me also not knowing that area at all.

Santiago mainly, which is where my wife is from. From visiting family and friends, I've seen a lot of sides of the city, from the very richest areas to poorer areas where tourists would never venture  It is mostly safe as a tourist depending on where you go, and at what time. Like many South American cities, there is a large and distinct divide between the richer side of the city close to the mountains (the more "European" and at times American-suburban feeling parts) and the poorer site of the city out in the valley plains. A lot of rich people never venture outside of their site of the city, not even to the centre. They could easily fool themselves into thinking they are living in a purely first world country. Needless to say the "Social Explosion" of 2019 came as a shock to them. My wifes family lives in a nice area although a bit further down from the hills, and if you venture onto the mainroad around the corner at night it can still be moody. Likewise night buses can be dodgy.

You're also right, Valparaiso is straight moody outside of one or two nicer area (where my wifes family has an apartment and B&B). I've still ventured around it, but it's generally not advisable to head up the hills and especially not at night, and the centre can also be rough. Even in the nice area, a Canadian tourist was shot dead a few years ago down the road from the B&B after trying to fight off two muggers (just give them your stuff..).

Chile has gotten genuinely more "dangerous" in the last few years, but the paranoia has also gone to stratospheric levels that can seem very OTT. But then I don't have to live there.

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2024, 10:15:16 am »
Can't believe Burscough isn't on that list.
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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2024, 12:01:25 pm »
Yep I think your maths is off. For a start the vast majority of the civilian deaths occurred during the Blitz which only lasted for about 8 months. Plus the prewar population reduced as people left the city for the countryside.

So if we say 14,000 killed during 8 months from a population of 7million. You would have a fatality rate of 21,000 per 7million, or 300 / 100k

According to wiki, Fresnillo (Mexico) tops the current list with 202/100k. So Fresnillo has a fatality rate that's at least comparable to London during the Blitz.

From the wiki article on Fresnillo:
"In the summer of 2021, it was reported that 96% of the residents of Fresnillo felt unsafe, primarily due to the violence from drug cartels."
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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2024, 12:02:58 pm »
Can't believe Burscough isn't on that list.


Ha  ;D

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Re: World's Most Dangerous Cities (2023)
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2024, 10:42:24 pm »
Thank god Rhyl doesn't have city status...