Author Topic: The Men in Suits behind the scenes  (Read 542457 times)

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1440 on: November 11, 2021, 06:09:34 pm »
Phillips didn’t start every game for Stuttgart. But he did play in approximately 50% of the available minutes. He wasn’t recalled early either. He was recalled during the winter break and Jan window to allow him to play in FA Cup.

I’m not necessarily going to push back on your assumption that we haven’t be great at loans. As I’ve said I think the value of loans are quite difficult to quantify in most circumstances.

However, what you said about Phillips above is false. Your original statement that you could only think of 1 successful loan (Awoniyi) recently seems a stretch. IMO you lose some credibility in your opinion if you don’t even get the factual aspects of the matter correct.

Like I said not going to necessarily disagree that the loans have been hit and miss. But a lot more hits than you are suggesting.

I think another thing with loans these days, is there are less been done of players who simply where bad buys or are just not wanted. For a few years, we always seemed to have 2 or 3 quite high profile playres on loan each season, like Markovic, Sakho, Balotelli, Carroll to name a few. 

So yeah for that reason alone things have improved with that aspect of loans! I think in the last 5 years or so the changes really have been for the positive. Both in terms of players having decent loans helping the club sell them for a decent fee (Although I think they’ve held onto players a season too long in some cases). But for sure Grujic, Wilson, Kent, Awoyini have all been sold after loans where they where able to play plenty of minutes allowing them to improve and showcase their talents.  And seeing Elliott use his loan very positively is good, maybe Sepp will be able to do similar, who knows, but for sure his loan is showcasing his talent.

Loans here have moved on from being too often a way to ‘hide' unwanted players, to being used to actually help players make a step up to Liverpool’s level or at least to give them a huge leg up in advancing their careers. 

« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 06:11:42 pm by Dim Glas »

Offline Barefoot Doctor

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1441 on: December 14, 2021, 04:54:32 pm »
Real Madrid hopeful of hiring Michael Edwards as new sporting director, according to Mel Reddy and Miguel Delaney:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/michael-edwards-real-madrid-liverpool-b1975994.html

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1442 on: December 14, 2021, 04:56:14 pm »
Real Madrid hopeful of hiring Michael Edwards as new sporting director, according to Mel Reddy and Miguel Delaney:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/michael-edwards-real-madrid-liverpool-b1975994.html

I hope he enjoys the likes of Perez just buying who the fuck they like anyway!

Offline Samie

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1443 on: December 14, 2021, 05:16:14 pm »
As if Perez will stop interfering.  :D

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1444 on: December 14, 2021, 05:27:00 pm »
He may finally be able to land Mbappe...

Offline amir87

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1445 on: December 14, 2021, 05:32:32 pm »
They can have Michael Edwards as long as he puts a sell on and buyback clause in his contract.

Offline Hazell

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1446 on: December 14, 2021, 05:33:20 pm »
I hope he enjoys the likes of Perez just buying who the fuck they like anyway!

As if Perez will stop interfering.  :D

So you're saying Laptop Eddie will be redundant over there?
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Offline Gerry Attrick

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1447 on: December 14, 2021, 05:36:10 pm »
Suppose there are worse gigs than living in a beautiful city like Madrid where you’re going to run La Liga for several years and will have reddies to spend. Don’t blame him at all if he accepts.

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1448 on: December 14, 2021, 05:47:04 pm »
Good for him, if he goes there.

And glad he’d be leaving the PL  ;D

Offline RedSince86

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1449 on: December 14, 2021, 05:51:16 pm »
Yeah he can go there, where it's all about signing Galacticos.

He cannot have any of our number crunching super nerds though.
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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1450 on: December 14, 2021, 05:56:48 pm »
I would guess he may have a limited non-compete in his contract as well. Maybe no team in England. Or 1 year break (ie let’s actually see if goes anywhere next year - if he can).

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1451 on: December 14, 2021, 06:04:27 pm »
I would guess he may have a limited non-compete in his contract as well. Maybe no team in England. Or 1 year break (ie let’s actually see if goes anywhere next year - if he can).

Would this even matter if his contract is up?

Offline newterp

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1452 on: December 14, 2021, 06:19:32 pm »
Would this even matter if his contract is up?

no - probably not. do we know that is it up?

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1453 on: December 14, 2021, 06:20:59 pm »
Will be interesting to see how he fares at another club. He undoubtedly got the right players for us, but they were the right players because we have the right coach. Under another coach, can we honestly say that we would have seen the kind of performances we're used to? Let's remember Firmino looked like a flop when he arrived here under Rodgers. Although he's obviously nowhere near the level of Klopp, it's not as if Rodgers is a terrible manager either. So the margins between success and failure relies often on the miracles the manager makes.

Honestly, Jurgen's record of turning good players into world class is phenomenal and has been seen at Dortmund and Liverpool. It's largely down to him first and foremost, but a great scout is a great foundation for all of that so hope Edwards is adequately replaced. We don't want to get into a situation again where scouts are recommending the likes of Balotelli again.

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1454 on: December 14, 2021, 07:02:28 pm »
It will be interesting if it happens. I can't see him being empowered as much as he has been here though, which somewhat defeats the purpose.
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Offline SamLad

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1455 on: December 14, 2021, 07:03:36 pm »
And glad he’d be leaving the PL  ;D
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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1456 on: December 14, 2021, 07:40:22 pm »
The big worry is that he causes a "brain drain" of our clearly best in PL recruitment department of the type that's typical in US sports and something FSG has dealt with in the past with the Red Sox.  A lot of times when a director of sport moves from one team to another they'll take with them all their best analyst and scouts or those that know how the soup gets made so to say.  At least with US sports all of the teams are setup relatively similarly so there are a lot of replacement options.  That's far from the case in European football with most having nothing near what LFC has built.

Wish him luck at Madrid if it happens though.  Think it would be a bit odd at first in that he doesn't speak Spanish?  Getting his orders from Florentino based on his TV time on El Chiringuito will be something new and interesting at least ;)

Offline Samie

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1457 on: December 14, 2021, 07:42:58 pm »
Tic Tac!

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1458 on: December 14, 2021, 08:44:30 pm »
The big worry is that he causes a "brain drain" of our clearly best in PL recruitment department of the type that's typical in US sports and something FSG has dealt with in the past with the Red Sox.  A lot of times when a director of sport moves from one team to another they'll take with them all their best analyst and scouts or those that know how the soup gets made so to say.  At least with US sports all of the teams are setup relatively similarly so there are a lot of replacement options.  That's far from the case in European football with most having nothing near what LFC has built.

Wish him luck at Madrid if it happens though.  Think it would be a bit odd at first in that he doesn't speak Spanish?  Getting his orders from Florentino based on his TV time on El Chiringuito will be something new and interesting at least ;)

Isn't Edwards pretty much the odd one out though with the likes of Ward, Fallows and Hunter coming from City.
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Offline royhendo

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1459 on: December 15, 2021, 11:06:14 am »
It'd be a really interesting career move for him. Real are the ultimate oil tanker of a football organisation but oddly the oil suppliers... well, there's all kinds of ways you could go with the metaphor but the pipelines are maybe directed elsewhere. So it's almost a 'bail it out with a tea strainer' job he's taking on if he goes there. People are inevitably gonna try and headhunt our people though eh?
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Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1460 on: December 15, 2021, 11:32:15 am »
It'd be a really interesting career move for him. Real are the ultimate oil tanker of a football organisation but oddly the oil suppliers... well, there's all kinds of ways you could go with the metaphor but the pipelines are maybe directed elsewhere. So it's almost a 'bail it out with a tea strainer' job he's taking on if he goes there. People are inevitably gonna try and headhunt our people though eh?
Weird that you’d imagine it would be a underachieving top tier club club that wants to replicate our spectacular ROI and on-field transfer strategy. Instead of a egotistical prick who could not give a shit about any of that and over the last decade or two, has spent like a drunken sailor on whatever the latest flavour of the season is. Edwards is just a suited and bespectacled Galactico in Perez’ view, and has given no thought to if he actually fits in there.

Good luck to Laptop Eddy if he goes for the experience, but I give it a year max.
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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1461 on: December 15, 2021, 11:38:52 am »
It'd be a really interesting career move for him. Real are the ultimate oil tanker of a football organisation but oddly the oil suppliers... well, there's all kinds of ways you could go with the metaphor but the pipelines are maybe directed elsewhere. So it's almost a 'bail it out with a tea strainer' job he's taking on if he goes there. People are inevitably gonna try and headhunt our people though eh?
Pretty much my view on it. The £150Million question is, could he turn Salah's head?. I hope nobody from Liverpool, squad or behind the scenes follows him.
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Offline FowlerLegend

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1462 on: December 15, 2021, 11:56:17 am »
Pretty much my view on it. The £150Million question is, could he turn Salah's head?. I hope nobody from Liverpool, squad or behind the scenes follows him.
Spends his last 12 months at Liverpool telling FSG to low ball Mo, to the point of pissing him off, but tells Mo FSG are tight and don't appreciate him
Then when he leaves in the summer tells Mo how much RM are prepared to pay as they recognise world class talent. 4D chess from Edwards.

Offline rossipersempre

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1463 on: December 15, 2021, 12:00:03 pm »
Spends his last 12 months at Liverpool telling FSG to low ball Mo, to the point of pissing him off, but tells Mo FSG are tight and don't appreciate him
Then when he leaves in the summer tells Mo how much RM are prepared to pay as they recognise world class talent. 4D chess from Edwards.
Or transparently laughable scenario. Like Mo would believe it, or the club would only communicate with him/his agent via a departing Edwards.
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Offline FowlerLegend

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1464 on: December 15, 2021, 12:09:13 pm »
Or transparently laughable scenario. Like Mo would believe it, or the club would only communicate with him/his agent via a departing Edwards.
Exactly. It was a joke! I imagine Ward is doing everything now.

I wouldn't be surprised though if Edwards leaves early, especially now with these Madrid links. You wouldn't have a senior exec stay in role in many industries if they are likely to move onto a competitor in the near future.

Offline FowlerLegend

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1465 on: December 15, 2021, 12:21:12 pm »
Real Madrid hopeful of hiring Michael Edwards as new sporting director, according to Mel Reddy and Miguel Delaney:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/michael-edwards-real-madrid-liverpool-b1975994.html

Will be interesting to see how this develops.

Wouldnt be surprised to see him leave Liverpool next month if this is true. For him, being the meticulous guy he is, cannot imagine he will just turn up in the summer and then start trying to talk to players to convince them to go to Madrid or work with his predecessors targets. All the clubs start talking now to targets (like we clearly had done with Konate).

If he waits until the summer then a lot of the big deals will already be advanced I would imagine. That means he waits until the following summer to really make his mark. Will he get that much time in Madrid?

Cam see it's in everyone's interest of he is going this summer for a parting of the ways sooner rather than later.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1466 on: December 15, 2021, 12:52:10 pm »
Quote
Real Madrid have approached Liverpool’s Michael Edwards about becoming sporting director at the club, and are hopeful they can persuade him to take the role.

Also in the news:

Alan_X has approached Dua Lipa about playing at his Christmas party and is hopeful he can persuade her to take the gig...

I've seen a few meltdowns on Twitter about this story. Basically the story so far is that Real Madrid think they're Billy Big Bollocks and want all the best toys.

When Reddy & Delaney post the story with quotes from Edwards saying he wants another job in football I'll start wetting my kecks.

And if he goes there who gives a fuck? The work he's done at Liverpool is part of an holistic approach to the club from the owners to the coaching staff. That holistic job will continue because of the way the club is run.

Good luck to anyone trying to do the job Edwards has done here at Real Madrid with that meddling egomaniac as his boss.
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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1467 on: December 15, 2021, 12:55:15 pm »
We have apparently lost one suit to the Saudi blood money though, Mark Leyland
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1468 on: December 15, 2021, 12:59:07 pm »
We have apparently lost one suit to the Saudi blood money though, Mark Leyland

Never liked Laptop Leyland anyway.

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1469 on: December 15, 2021, 12:59:53 pm »
We have apparently lost one suit to the Saudi blood money though, Mark Leyland

He wasn't a suit - he was a tracksuit who knew Howe at Burnley. Relatively low level member of staff who's taking a step up at Newcastle. People move up and move on in every walk of life. This from the Independent:

Quote
Leyland follows fellow analyst Harrison Kingston in leaving the Merseyside club. He departed last year to become Director of Performance Analysis and Framework at the Moroccan Football Federation.

Liverpool believe the high demand for their staff is a showcase of the world-class operation built behind the scenes. There is no concern over exits as the structure, talent pool and transition process is solid at the club.


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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1470 on: December 15, 2021, 01:49:32 pm »
no - probably not. do we know that is it up?

Yes.  It's been widely reported and confirmed by both Edwards and the club that his contract is up at the end of the season.

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1471 on: December 15, 2021, 01:55:01 pm »
He wasn't a suit - he was a tracksuit who knew Howe at Burnley. Relatively low level member of staff who's taking a step up at Newcastle. People move up and move on in every walk of life. This from the Independent:

Quote
There is no concern over exits as the structure, talent pool and transition process is solid at the club.

This is the key part.  FSG have built a pretty impressive structure at the club that should be able to withstand a few senior staff members leaving.  If the club is dependent on a couple of people then we are in big trouble because everyone inevitably leaves and moves on. 

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1472 on: December 15, 2021, 02:04:17 pm »
Also in the news:

Alan_X has approached Dua Lipa about playing at his Christmas party and is hopeful he can persuade her to take the gig...

I've seen a few meltdowns on Twitter about this story. Basically the story so far is that Real Madrid think they're Billy Big Bollocks and want all the best toys.

When Reddy & Delaney post the story with quotes from Edwards saying he wants another job in football I'll start wetting my kecks.

And if he goes there who gives a fuck? The work he's done at Liverpool is part of an holistic approach to the club from the owners to the coaching staff. That holistic job will continue because of the way the club is run.

Good luck to anyone trying to do the job Edwards has done here at Real Madrid with that meddling egomaniac as his boss.

For a guy that very rarely speaks in public, very much doubt any quotes appearing about wanting to go to Madrid. He has been a sporting director for 10 years so I imagine he will continue doing that somewhere.

I expect he has been sidelined now anyway and if it looks likely he will take a job in the summer would just expect his departure to be accelerated. Most people are put on gardening leave in similar circumstances, especially if he isn't doing much!

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1473 on: December 15, 2021, 05:32:43 pm »
Isn't Edwards pretty much the odd one out though with the likes of Ward, Fallows and Hunter coming from City.

FSG could have put Fallows or Hunter in charge instead of Edwards, they didn't.  Both are traditional scouts and I'm sure they're valuable but there's plenty of traditional scouts around.  For me it would be if Edwards takes Graham and the rest of the analytics team there isn't a lot of options to replace them without starting from scratch.  A lot of what they're working on isn't even publically available.  I'm sure the club will treat it all as their IP but without the people that know how the IP works it's kind of worthless.

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1474 on: December 15, 2021, 05:33:30 pm »
This is the key part.  FSG have built a pretty impressive structure at the club that should be able to withstand a few senior staff members leaving.  If the club is dependent on a couple of people then we are in big trouble because everyone inevitably leaves and moves on.

Agreed   - plus promoting Ward to replace Edwards is also the old way we used to work - promote the talent within the Boot room when someone  moves on. Keep devleoping talent on pitch  and in coaching staff.

Apparently Klopp commented on Leyland move and said he could move to Newcastle before Thursday.
He said everyone knows how Liverpool play and  Leyland did not know the team selection.

Good luck and like everyone has said - he gets a promotion and we keep a friend. He had apparently been at Liverpool a long time and was not in line for a promotion that he got at Newcastle.

Happens all the time
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 05:35:57 pm by dutchkop »

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1475 on: December 15, 2021, 05:40:24 pm »
It'd be a really interesting career move for him. Real are the ultimate oil tanker of a football organisation but oddly the oil suppliers... well, there's all kinds of ways you could go with the metaphor but the pipelines are maybe directed elsewhere. So it's almost a 'bail it out with a tea strainer' job he's taking on if he goes there. People are inevitably gonna try and headhunt our people though eh?
Andy Heaton says he’s not going to Madrid…  he doesn’t say much, but when he does he tends to be right.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 06:02:01 pm by TepidT2O »
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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1476 on: December 15, 2021, 05:44:43 pm »
Reckon Barcelona need Edwards more than Madrid do. He won't go there either. ;D
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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1477 on: December 15, 2021, 06:04:19 pm »
FSG could have put Fallows or Hunter in charge instead of Edwards, they didn't.  Both are traditional scouts and I'm sure they're valuable but there's plenty of traditional scouts around.  For me it would be if Edwards takes Graham and the rest of the analytics team there isn't a lot of options to replace them without starting from scratch.  A lot of what they're working on isn't even publically available.  I'm sure the club will treat it all as their IP but without the people that know how the IP works it's kind of worthless.

Julian Ward is being put in charge now though and he is what you would call a traditional scout.

Graham and Edwards go back a long way to Graham's days at Decision technology but he is a big red so hopefully he will want to stay.
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Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1478 on: December 15, 2021, 06:09:55 pm »
Julian Ward is being put in charge now though and he is what you would call a traditional scout.

Graham and Edwards go back a long way to Graham's days at Decision technology but he is a big red so hopefully he will want to stay.

Right, which is why I'm saying hopefully this doesn't lead to an exodus or I would have just said Ward is in charge and that's that.  The club outwardly is confident so for now probably best to leave it at that.

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Re: Michael Edwards and the Men in Suits behind the scenes
« Reply #1479 on: December 16, 2021, 10:45:42 am »
Andy Heaton says he’s not going to Madrid…  he doesn’t say much, but when he does he tends to be right.

Very true. Andy Heaton has often quietly known more than most and not made a scene about it.
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