Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[reddebs]

So I got the phone call this morning.  Telling me that whilst my Dad is alive, it's only going to be a few days at most now.  His heart is failing, he won't survive without oxygen and his lungs are filling with fluid.  He had plenty of underlying problems, but contracted Covid-19 in hospital, and he just can't fight it off.  The ward told me that whilst they cannot legally stop me from going in to see him, he is on a ward where everyone has Covid-19.  That it is obviously very, very high risk.

So after spending the day wrestling with it, talking to my girlfriend, family and friends I have decided not to go in and see him.  I hope he's ok with that.  I'm telling myself he would be.  That he'd tell me I would be a bloody idiot to risk myself and other people when it wasn't going to help, and he wasn't even awake anyway.  I got to speak to him on the phone yesterday and tell him I loved him.  It's a shit way to say goodbye.

So just....  be safe.  Please.  My Dad may have had problems, but he caught this even whilst he was in hospital and getting the best care he could.  Don't do anything daft.

So sorry to hear that mate but yeah he'd probably tell you to stay well away if he could.

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[Gnurglan]

So I got the phone call this morning.  Telling me that whilst my Dad is alive, it's only going to be a few days at most now.  His heart is failing, he won't survive without oxygen and his lungs are filling with fluid.  He had plenty of underlying problems, but contracted Covid-19 in hospital, and he just can't fight it off.  The ward told me that whilst they cannot legally stop me from going in to see him, he is on a ward where everyone has Covid-19.  That it is obviously very, very high risk.

So after spending the day wrestling with it, talking to my girlfriend, family and friends I have decided not to go in and see him.  I hope he's ok with that.  I'm telling myself he would be.  That he'd tell me I would be a bloody idiot to risk myself and other people when it wasn't going to help, and he wasn't even awake anyway.  I got to speak to him on the phone yesterday and tell him I loved him.  It's a shit way to say goodbye.

So just....  be safe.  Please.  My Dad may have had problems, but he caught this even whilst he was in hospital and getting the best care he could.  Don't do anything daft.

That's really sad. It shouldn't have to be like that. Can't imagine what that must be like.

[Zeb]

Some overlooked words from that Sharma from today's update...

The business secretary is now asked what the UK's "exit strategy" is for bringing the pandemic under control

Mr Sharma does not give a precise answer but says the current social distancing and lockdown measures must be kept in place as long as necessary so as to avoid a "dangerous second peak" in the virus next winter.

Now maybe i am interpeting that wrong and not seeing the real mesaage but that looks deeply worrying to me in terms of how long this lockdown may last.

From all the advice going to government and research work going on, it's been clear for a few weeks that the lockdown will last until there's a way to safely lift it. Likely new systems to trace cases and who they interact with as well as knowing who already has immunity to it. Even then it'll be matters of degree - having schools and universities open likely the first step while keeping social gatherings otherwise minimised. Same conversation among epidemiologists going on from Germany through to the USA about it.

[lamad]

In that article don’t know what to make of the statement ‘tobacco plants cannot cause pathogens that are harmful to human health’.  Shame about the other risks to health I’d have thought.

When I read they are looking for "support from government agencies" that basically means they want money to do the research. But I am to believe they will do this as non-profit? Right... I'm sorry, of course whoever is helping with this it's a positive, but I am a real cynic when it comes to tobacco companies. They have been killing millions, for decades now, and they still fight tooth and nail to keep their business, trying to dodge legislation, hunt whistleblowers and so forth.

What I can believe is that as companies they are looking for alternative income in the long run, because maybe one of these days the world will decide enough with cigarettes and they will have to change or shut up shop. Years ago I watched a documentary about tobacco companies (it was mainly about their aggressive seduction of children as young as 7 or 8 years in Asia, because Europe and North America make it more difficult for them these days) and there was a guy from the US Health Authorities and he said that if a product like cigarettes would apply for a licence today they would never ever get approval.

So good idea to help out now, but without these companies many people would have had a longer life and maybe even lived through this new virus. Imho they are afraid that at one point governments and society will come after them, so they are looking to boost their image and possibly add to/change their business model in order to survive.

[Red Beret]

Anyone on pre payment meters for gas and electric?  Get in touch with your suppliers as they may be topping up free of charge.  A colleague just posted this in our group chat.

Apparently this is British gas and seems they're doing it for everyone and they work what you'd use over the 12wks.

Good on them!

Awww I rang ares up today and they topped are meters up 180 quid each to last us 12 week no repayment xx

That's really good news.  I've got a friend with elderly parents on pre-payment.  Don't know who they're with but this will be a load of their mind if their own supplier is even half as generous. And that's coming from someone who has little love for British Gas.

[Felch Aid]

Personal guarantees aren't a 'nightmare scenario'. They're fairly standard in business, especially for SMEs. I've given personal guarantees a number of times when we needed bank loans. It's up to each business to shop around for the finance they need and make sure they do a rigourous worst-case cash forecast before entering into any loan.

I assume from your posts that you don't own your own business and probably haven;t the first idea what you are talking about. Happy to be corrected if wrong.

If you don't know what you are talking about - please don't post misinformation. It's not the first time:

Others read stuff like that and worry unneccessarily.

Used to be a director and shareholder thanks.

[lamad]

Don't really understand how Germany's death number is so low. Unless they aren't putting all deaths down to Covid-19. They were miles ahead of us to start off with.

As others said testing and isolating plays a role. Also hospital capacities are still good. We are currently treating patients from France and Italy in German hospitals where the numbers are still low. They have been calculating and it was said for now (and for the time of the treatment) they have enough beds to take patients from abroad. The real problem starts when you run out of ventilators or have to keep patients in tents and decide who gets a treatment and who doesn't. Germany is not there yet, but this might look very different in a week or two.

[Alan_X]

Used to be a director and shareholder thanks.

Then that's even more irresponsible. You should know better.

[Thepooloflife]

So I got the phone call this morning.  Telling me that whilst my Dad is alive, it's only going to be a few days at most now.  His heart is failing, he won't survive without oxygen and his lungs are filling with fluid.  He had plenty of underlying problems, but contracted Covid-19 in hospital, and he just can't fight it off.  The ward told me that whilst they cannot legally stop me from going in to see him, he is on a ward where everyone has Covid-19.  That it is obviously very, very high risk.

So after spending the day wrestling with it, talking to my girlfriend, family and friends I have decided not to go in and see him.  I hope he's ok with that.  I'm telling myself he would be.  That he'd tell me I would be a bloody idiot to risk myself and other people when it wasn't going to help, and he wasn't even awake anyway.  I got to speak to him on the phone yesterday and tell him I loved him.  It's a shit way to say goodbye.

So just....  be safe.  Please.  My Dad may have had problems, but he caught this even whilst he was in hospital and getting the best care he could.  Don't do anything daft.

So sorry to hear about that - I can't imagine what you must be going through. Take care and stay safe.

[reddebs]

That's really good news.  I've got a friend with elderly parents on pre-payment.  Don't know who they're with but this will be a load of their mind if their own supplier is even half as generous. And that's coming from someone who has little love for British Gas.

It's maybe worth anyone on PP meters to phone their supplier to see if they're all doing it.

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[Red Beret]

When I read they are looking for "support from government agencies" that basically means they want money to do the research. But I am to believe they will do this as non-profit? Right... I'm sorry, of course whoever is helping with this it's a positive, but I am a real cynic when it comes to tobacco companies. They have been killing millions, for decades now, and they still fight tooth and nail to keep their business, trying to dodge legislation, hunt whistleblowers and so forth.

I am also a cynic about tobacco companies.  They're not exactly skint so they should pay for the bloody research themselves instead of hawking themselves out to the government for a flipping grant.  If you're right about them doing this as non-profit then they don't have to wait or ask for permission, they can start right now.

As for the rest, unfortunately in the UK at least, ciggies are a tax boon for any government, regardless of party, and we're not even the worst (best?) when it comes to what cigs cost.  I hear in Australia they cost almost twice as much.  We're a long way from outlawing cigarettes, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for governments to justify some drugs being illegal whilst allowing tobacco to be sold for little other reason then it happened to get in the doorway a few hundred years before most of the rest.

[Zeb]

This is very much about the US but the principles apply to other countries too. It's by Marc Lipsitch and Yonatan Grad. https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/01/navigating-covid-19-pandemic/

Imagine you are in a small boat far, far from shore. A surprise storm capsizes the boat and tosses you into the sea. You try to tame your panic, somehow find the boat’s flimsy but still floating life raft, and struggle into it. You catch your breath, look around, and try to think what to do next. Thinking clearly is hard to do after a near-drowning experience.

You do, though, realize two important things: First, the raft is saving your life for the moment and you need to stay in it until you have a better plan. Second, the raft is not a viable long-term option and you need to get to land.

In April 2020, the storm is the Covid-19 pandemic, the life raft is the combination of intense measures we are using to slow the spread of the virus, and dry land is the end to the pandemic.

There are several broad ideas for how to get to dry land, which is widespread immunity in the population. But each has enormous problems.

One way is to let up on social distancing soon and let the epidemic run its course. That would lead to many deaths and completely overwhelm health care systems around the country. Another way is to maintain intense social distancing until there is a vaccine — but the arrival of a vaccine is uncertain and, absent a miracle, will likely take more than a year. Meanwhile, society and the economy would suffer.

If the first wave really is controlled, another option would be to try multiple rounds of social distancing: instituting it to bring the epidemic under control then letting up, perhaps only in certain areas, to allow cases to occur and immunity to accumulate gradually in the population, and then again introducing another round of social distancing. Our model of this process shows that it would take multiple rounds and would be challenging to accomplish without errors that lead to ICU overload. It would also be difficult to maintain the political and social will to implement this.

The most ambitious approach would be to intensify social distancing and scale up testing until we have the ability to know about nearly every case of Covid-19, trace his or her contacts, and control the spread of the disease one case at a time. This, though, is hard to envision. Even though Singapore detected the infection early, Covid-19 has stretched the island’s public health system to the limits, and our public health system has not had the practice and the resources devoted to stopping a pandemic that Singapore has invested since it faced down severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2003. And continued risk of imported cases of Covid-19 from elsewhere in the world — or even from other parts of the country — would lead us in this best-case scenario to restrict and intensively screen travelers for an extended period.

Whatever path we choose — and it may be a mix of paths in different parts of the country, as the local epidemics and responses are so varying — we should be working overtime to make use of the time we buy with social distancing. That means:

* Building capacity to control transmission by continued social distancing, massive testing, and meeting the needs of healthcare workers for personal protective equipment.

* Investing in efforts to mitigate the impact of Covid-19 by rapidly finding treatments, increasing health care capacity, and further accelerating work on a vaccine.

[CraigDS]

Personal guarantees aren't a 'nightmare scenario'. They're fairly standard in business, especially for SMEs. I've given personal guarantees a number of times when we needed bank loans. It's up to each business to shop around for the finance they need and make sure they do a rigourous worst-case cash forecast before entering into any loan.

I assume from your posts that you don't own your own business and probably haven;t the first idea what you are talking about. Happy to be corrected if wrong.

If you don't know what you are talking about - please don't post misinformation.

It's not misinformation. Personal guarantees have/are being asked for, enough proof of this is out there from reliable sources (BBC, FT, etc). The Govt. is even quoted in the FT saying these should not be asked for, and that they are informing banks of this. I believe on the back of this the larger banks have dropped this request.

Also, he didn't necessarily say all personal guarantees are a nightmare, but there are 100% nightmare scenarios where business owners, during this uncertain time with no timeframe to an end, are being asked to decide between their business (and their employees) and putting their family home at risk. I'd call that a nightmare scenario.

And yes, business owner, have given multiple personal guarantees (to landlords and banks), and also cash guarantees to banks.

[PaulF]

I have to report my brother-in-laws' father has just passed away.  They wouldn't ventilate him because of the damage he'd already got.
The rate at which numbers of people we know , in this thread alone, is shooting up at a scary rate.

Walk on , walk on , with hope in your hearts.

[PaulF]

Also, he didn't necessarily say all personal guarantees are a nightmare, but there are 100% nightmare scenarios where business owners, during this uncertain time with no timeframe to an end, are being asked to decide between their business (and their employees) and putting their family home at risk. I'd call that a nightmare scenario.

When I first read it, company owners were being asked (wrongly) by the banks to put up security. But they couldn't ask for the family home.
(Second home, savings, everything else except pension I guess).

Will try and find source...

[S]

I have to report my brother-in-laws' father has just passed away.  They wouldn't ventilate him because of the damage he'd already got.
The rate at which numbers of people we know , in this thread alone, is shooting up at a scary rate.

Walk on , walk on , with hope in your hearts.

Sad to hear that mate. Can I ask what you mean by “damage he’d already got”? Do you mean he had a pre existing condition?

You’re right, it’s been very unsettling seeing the slow rise of people in this thread recounting the cases of those close to them. We all know the realities and yet somehow these little stories bring it home all over again.

[Thepooloflife]

I have to report my brother-in-laws' father has just passed away.  They wouldn't ventilate him because of the damage he'd already got.
The rate at which numbers of people we know , in this thread alone, is shooting up at a scary rate.

Walk on , walk on , with hope in your hearts.

Sorry to hear about that Paul. Yes, you're right - in recent days rawkites are becoming acutely aware of the serious and devastating effect this is and will have on us all. Take care, YNWA

[djahern]

Very sad to hear these stories of family members. Sympathies with you all. It’s becoming all too common now these past couple of days with work colleagues, friends and acquaintances - so many sad stories.

[CraigDS]

When I first read it, company owners were being asked (wrongly) by the banks to put up security. But they couldn't ask for the family home.
(Second home, savings, everything else except pension I guess).

Will try and find source...

No you're right, I remember reading that now.

Still, I imagine in most cases they are targeting savings given it's likely this is the most common asset small business owners will have so the point stands still.

Edit - sorry to hear about your brother in law's father.

[The North Bank]

When I first read it, company owners were being asked (wrongly) by the banks to put up security. But they couldn't ask for the family home.
(Second home, savings, everything else except pension I guess).

Will try and find source...

This scheme seems very unclear and I think that's hindering the process, I heard today that only businesses that get turned down for a normal high street loan can apply for those grants. Which means if you for example qualify for a business loan at 30% interest rate, with your family home as guarantee, you have to take it. You cant say no and opt for this supposedly less risky scheme. Which means a lot of business owners will only get funds by putting their entire livelihood on the line to keep furloughing their employees, in the hope that we overcome the virus sometime in the future, a measure that in normal times would be commercially insane. 


P.S, very sorry about your loss mate.

[24/7]

Terrible reading the news of people close to us passing away. The father of a good friend of mine has just passed away too - in his 70s, existing underlying condition, mercifully swift.

YNWA indeed.

[No666]

So I got the phone call this morning.  Telling me that whilst my Dad is alive, it's only going to be a few days at most now.  His heart is failing, he won't survive without oxygen and his lungs are filling with fluid.  He had plenty of underlying problems, but contracted Covid-19 in hospital, and he just can't fight it off.  The ward told me that whilst they cannot legally stop me from going in to see him, he is on a ward where everyone has Covid-19.  That it is obviously very, very high risk.

So after spending the day wrestling with it, talking to my girlfriend, family and friends I have decided not to go in and see him.  I hope he's ok with that.  I'm telling myself he would be.  That he'd tell me I would be a bloody idiot to risk myself and other people when it wasn't going to help, and he wasn't even awake anyway.  I got to speak to him on the phone yesterday and tell him I loved him.  It's a shit way to say goodbye.

So just....  be safe.  Please.  My Dad may have had problems, but he caught this even whilst he was in hospital and getting the best care he could.  Don't do anything daft.

Really sorry to hear this. As a parent, I'm quite sure your father would want you nowhere near that ward and his peace of mind rests in knowing you are safe. I can't imagine how hard it is for you but he wouldn't want you at risk, mate.

[24/7]

It's a shit way to say goodbye.

  take care of yeself mate

[Snail]

It's maybe worth anyone on PP meters to phone their supplier to see if they're all doing it.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

We’re with Spark for our leccy and got a letter off them the other day confirming they wouldn’t be helping and to make sure we top up enough

[Alan_X]

It's not misinformation. Personal guarantees have/are being asked for, enough proof of this is out there from reliable sources (BBC, FT, etc). The Govt. is even quoted in the FT saying these should not be asked for, and that they are informing banks of this. I believe on the back of this the larger banks have dropped this request.

Also, he didn't necessarily say all personal guarantees are a nightmare, but there are 100% nightmare scenarios where business owners, during this uncertain time with no timeframe to an end, are being asked to decide between their business (and their employees) and putting their family home at risk. I'd call that a nightmare scenario.

And yes, business owner, have given multiple personal guarantees (to landlords and banks), and also cash guarantees to banks.

I agree with that all of that Craig. That's not what felch aid posted. Taking out any loan or overdraft as a small business is a nightmare because if you can't pay it back you lose the business and your livelihood. If my business goes under I'll struggle to pay my mortgage anyway.

And as you say - my understanding was that the government has asked banks not to request personal guarantees so rather than stir up concerns, the advice would be to shop around or wait for the government to enforce the terms.

It might be worth setting up a separate thread for guidance for SMEs as there must be a few on here.

[grrth1314]

Updated case numbers posted in the facts thread...

[Qston]

So I got the phone call this morning.  Telling me that whilst my Dad is alive, it's only going to be a few days at most now.  His heart is failing, he won't survive without oxygen and his lungs are filling with fluid.  He had plenty of underlying problems, but contracted Covid-19 in hospital, and he just can't fight it off.  The ward told me that whilst they cannot legally stop me from going in to see him, he is on a ward where everyone has Covid-19.  That it is obviously very, very high risk.

So after spending the day wrestling with it, talking to my girlfriend, family and friends I have decided not to go in and see him.  I hope he's ok with that.  I'm telling myself he would be.  That he'd tell me I would be a bloody idiot to risk myself and other people when it wasn't going to help, and he wasn't even awake anyway.  I got to speak to him on the phone yesterday and tell him I loved him.  It's a shit way to say goodbye.

So just....  be safe.  Please.  My Dad may have had problems, but he caught this even whilst he was in hospital and getting the best care he could.  Don't do anything daft.

So sorry to hear that mate. A heart breaking decision but I think your Dad would.agree, the right one.

[Alan_X]

This scheme seems very unclear and I think that's hindering the process, I heard today that only businesses that get turned down for a normal high street loan can apply for those grants. Which means if you for example qualify for a business loan at 30% interest rate, with your family home as guarantee, you have to take it. You cant say no and opt for this supposedly less risky scheme. Which means a lot of business owners will only get funds by putting their entire livelihood on the line to keep furloughing their employees, in the hope that we overcome the virus sometime in the future, a measure that in normal times would be commercially insane. 

Can we park this or provide can someone more detailed information. I am going to do a bit more research. It's clear what is meant to happen and relying on anecdote is difficult. I'll read up more and get back to this tomorrow.

[Qston]

I agree with that all of that Craig. That's not what felch aid posted. Taking out any loan or overdraft as a small business is a nightmare because if you can't pay it back you lose the business and your livelihood. If my business goes under I'll struggle to pay my mortgage anyway.

And as you say - my understanding was that the government has asked banks not to request personal guarantees so rather than stir up concerns, the advice would be to shop around or wait for the government to enforce the terms.

It might be worth setting up a separate thread for guidance for SMEs as there must be a few on here.

Agree with all of that mate but it is different risk consideration for the lender when the loan is essentially backed, in the main, by the government. The risk is clearly lower and personal guarantees should be much less of a consideration.

[reddebs]

We’re with Spark for our leccy and got a letter off them the other day confirming they wouldn’t be helping and to make sure we top up enough

Well that's pretty shit [emoji35]

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[The North Bank]

Can we park this or provide can someone more detailed information. I am going to do a bit more research. It's clear what is meant to happen and relying on anecdote is difficult. I'll read up more and get back to this tomorrow.

Thank you Alan.

It does pale into insignificance compared to what some on here are going through, so probably needs its own thread yes.

[scouseman]

I have to report my brother-in-laws' father has just passed away.  They wouldn't ventilate him because of the damage he'd already got.
The rate at which numbers of people we know , in this thread alone, is shooting up at a scary rate.

Walk on , walk on , with hope in your hearts.

So sorry for your loss Paul. stay strong for your loved ones at this difficult time. DM if you need to chat. We are here for you mate. All the very best to you. First Craig and his dad and now this. It is heartbreaking how many RAWK members are being effected by this horrible virus. Being a only parent individual this is what is scaring me the most. The fear of being alone without anyone to turn to for help or support. YNWA Paul. 

[Craig S]

So I got the phone call this morning.  Telling me that whilst my Dad is alive, it's only going to be a few days at most now.  His heart is failing, he won't survive without oxygen and his lungs are filling with fluid.  He had plenty of underlying problems, but contracted Covid-19 in hospital, and he just can't fight it off.  The ward told me that whilst they cannot legally stop me from going in to see him, he is on a ward where everyone has Covid-19.  That it is obviously very, very high risk.

So after spending the day wrestling with it, talking to my girlfriend, family and friends I have decided not to go in and see him.  I hope he's ok with that.  I'm telling myself he would be.  That he'd tell me I would be a bloody idiot to risk myself and other people when it wasn't going to help, and he wasn't even awake anyway.  I got to speak to him on the phone yesterday and tell him I loved him.  It's a shit way to say goodbye.

So just....  be safe.  Please.  My Dad may have had problems, but he caught this even whilst he was in hospital and getting the best care he could.  Don't do anything daft.

Mate, I am so sorry to hear this. It is eerily similar to what I have just been through with my dad. Once he was confirmed positive we were told we could not visit from then. I think you are making the right decision.

We also think he has contracted it at the hospital.

After all this is over, let's meet up at a match for a bevvy, to toast and remember our arl fellas.

[Hij]

Thoughts are with all of you Arthur, Craig, Paul and Jim.

My father had plenty underlying conditions and eventually cancer thrown into the mix when he succumbed due a brain bleed last year- only a matter of days after they had successfully cut the cancer out of him which came as a huge blow. It is a small mercy to me in someways that I do not need to fret and worry constantly about him catching it, although it goes without saying I empthasise with you all at this time and know that no-one really can say anything that makes you feel better even if you appreciate the intent.

So sorry for the loss for you all.

[Qston]

Thank you Alan.

It does pale into insignificance compared to what some on here are going through, so probably needs its own thread yes.

Could there perhaps be a separate general advice thread rather than limiting to business advice  ? People have posted lots of helpful advice on here with UC, utilities, mortgages and so on. One place with all the financial related advice on would be helpful. Plenty of rawkites with wide range of experience and knowledge.

[arthur sarnoff]

Mate, I am so sorry to hear this. It is eerily similar to what I have just been through with my dad. Once he was confirmed positive we were told we could not visit from then. I think you are making the right decision.

We also think he has contracted it at the hospital.

After all this is over, let's meet up at a match for a bevvy, to toast and remember our arl fellas.

Aye, lets.


Thank you everyone for the messages.  I can't put stuff into words properly, but just putting it into words of some sort has helped.  I don't know any of you, but just letting things out on here has been good for me.  Thanks all.

[TepidT2O]

Aye, lets.


Thank you everyone for the messages.  I can't put stuff into words properly, but just putting it into words of some sort has helped.  I don't know any of you, but just letting things out on here has been good for me.  Thanks all.

Keep strong mate...

[Trada]

Anyone on pre payment meters for gas and electric?  Get in touch with your suppliers as they may be topping up free of charge.  A colleague just posted this in our group chat.

Apparently this is British gas and seems they're doing it for everyone and they work what you'd use over the 12wks.

Good on them!

Awww I rang ares up today and they topped are meters up 180 quid each to last us 12 week no repayment xx

I will have to give Bulb a ring again tomorrow right now I'm down to the last £3 on my emergency walked up to the shop yesterday and they said the Key machine wasn't working and Bulb said they send out preloaded keys that take over a week to get to you.

So I will give bulb another ring tomorrow and if their policy hasn't changed I will have to try the shop again and if it still broke I will have to walk around town to try other shops. something I really don't want to do.

[12C]

I have to report my brother-in-laws' father has just passed away.  They wouldn't ventilate him because of the damage he'd already got.
The rate at which numbers of people we know , in this thread alone, is shooting up at a scary rate.

Walk on , walk on , with hope in your hearts.

So sorry to hear that mate. Condolences  to your family

[scouseman]

Just to build on what Paul said about council tax payments a few days ago. It is worth calling them up. They told me that they are in the process of changing over to the new economic year and to ring them again in a day or two. They said the payment break should not be a issue but that you would have less instalments to pay the amount off in.  I asked if they would still charge interest and they said no.