Topic: 90s Draft Quarter Final 2

[Elzar]

Robbieredman                                                                                                          VS  Trend   

  VS

==============================================================


 Lastrador                                                                                                           VS Mikeylfc

VS

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Gullit was lame by the 90's?  Or so I was told.  What round was he drafted in Robbie? 6th

Anyhow, his marking backs would get chewed up by our wide play of Nedved and Brian Laudrup --- and to be honest Romario (King of the Penalty box) and Bebeto would find joy as Carlos and Bergomi advance forward splitting the marking back and centreback gaps.

Of course, Maldini and Ayala are quality but they are not the most mobile centrebacks of all time (Simeone as well) --- big bodies who can be passed around and dribbled around by our smaller more technical skill players like Laudrup/Nedved/Hassler and our Brazilians.

Again, my squad may or may not win this match --- but the 6-1 differential is insane.

However, Klinsman and Figo would also find some joy no doubt.  I see this is a high scoring one goal game 3-2. 

[RobbieRedman]

You're up against the mentality monsters of the 90's Trend.

Most of what you said is absolute nonsense.

Your centre backs are woeful and where you lose this because the clown you have in goal will let everything in too.

The 90's were great for keepers and you're the only one who picked a one tournament wonder.

It's a disgrace you replaced PiM to be honest, he might of given me a game.

Bring out the wives!!   You're outscored in this one,  more of a 5-2 though

[El Lobo]

Gullit is just the extra bit of quality in the first match, as is Van Basten in the second

[RobbieRedman]

6-0 to 7-6

 

[Lastrador]

Mike team is good, but Van Basten, Schuster and Zambrotta have nothing to do in a 90s draft. And let’s just say Luis Enrique as the number 10 and more creative player doesn’t bode well for his two strikers. Hopefully people can see through the cheese.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

6-0 to 7-6

 

Return of the wives 

[Linudden]

90's penalty shootout clog-up incoming? 

I can really see why. I went for RobbieRedman and Mikeylfc, but both were by a right whisker.

Decisive factors: Maldini and van Basten, respectively.

Figo cancels Romário out in importance, whereas I think Simeone would be able to man-mark Zidane enough to take him out of the game. 90's Zidane was rather inconsistent after all and didn't really dominate the 1998 World Cup until he stole Ronaldo's thunder in the final. For me, peak Zidane was in the early 00's. I would even venture to say that Mbappé was more important to France's second World Cup than Zidane was to the first. 1998 was much more of a team effort and Zizou as usual showed up when it really mattered the most so that's why people remember him for that.

[Lastrador]

Return of the wives 

I would like to thank Trend wives too. Lovely gals.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

90's penalty shootout clog-up incoming? 

I can really see why. I went for RobbieRedman and Mikeylfc, but both were by a right whisker.

Decisive factors: Maldini and van Basten, respectively.

Figo cancels Romário out in importance, whereas I think Simeone would be able to man-mark Zidane enough to take him out of the game. 90's Zidane was rather inconsistent after all and didn't really dominate the 1998 World Cup until he stole Ronaldo's thunder in the final. For me, peak Zidane was in the early 00's. I would even venture to say that Mbappé was more important to France's second World Cup than Zidane was to the first. 1998 was much more of a team effort and Zizou as usual showed up when it really mattered the most so that's why people remember him for that.

Linudden, while I respect your individual decision making skills to decide for yourself how to judge this match, I do debate your process.  Let me explain:

Figo does not cancel out anyone.  This game (and every game since time began) is a team game -- its about partnerships. Atomizing it down to individual and subjective pieces like cancelling out players that play the same position is odd.  The matchups are defensive versus offensive scenarios --- which kind of makes comparing Messi to Ronaldo a fool's errand (even though we all have our opinions).

So, let me reframe this battle a bit --- which partnerships does Robbie win

CB's perhaps - Klinnsman/Figo/Injured Gullit versus Popescu, Sanchis & sitting Di Napoli
CB's             - Romario/Bebeto/Hassler/Laudrup/Nedved versus Maldini & Ayala sitting Simeone

*** one point about this CB partnership comparison (Maldini's history with AC Milan had better players than the ones being trotted out here Petrescu/Staunton) - and the Ayala/Simeone partnership deserves some credit here no doubt -- but none of these 5 defenders are all that mobile against a group of players on my side that can play one touch in and out of tight spaces.  This game would be a goal fest for both. 

Wide play -  who gets the nod on the left (Nedved/Roberto Carlos or Figo/Staunton)?
                  who gets the nod on the right (B Laudrup/Bergomi or Lombardo/Petrescu)?

Striker/Attack Mid Combination Play in the 90's

Klinsmann is very good, dangerous and productive everywhere he played --- Gullitt too - but I could have had Ruud as my Attack Mid but I chose Hassler, a 90's star who won a World Cup and the Euros during this period.  This should be taken into account ---  not as Eel Lobo said a little bit of 80's stardust quality.   

Now, Figo complicates matter as he is amazing -- his partnerships with everyone make Robbie's team better, which is why I said this would be a high scoring match.  I am not sure the differentials with Lombardo present more of an attacking threat than Laudrup/Nedved --- in fact I would say we have just as quick and versatile players in our front 5 than they do making the stress of play born upon the last category

Marking Backs --- these partnerships are very important because Bergomi can slide over to CB for cover when the ball is on the other side of the pitch.  Both Bergomi and R Carlos are very good with the ball and can push opposing midfielders and defenders back into their own side -- pinned in.    Nowhere on planet earth does Petrescu and Staunton compare to these two lads.

Here are the areas or partnerships I believe I compete favorably in

Marking Backs
Wide  Middies
Striking Combination

Here are areas where we are tied as it were

Attack Mid (as Gullit is not really a 90's star) and Hassler was very productive

Here are the areas where Robbie is clearly more dominant

Centreback Pairings
Defensive Midfielder

So, Linudden -- Figo in no way (wide attacker or winger) cancels out one of my attackers - as its a team game (and Romario might have been the best forward for the entire decade minus Ronaldo and Van Basten).  Klinsmann's nice but he is alone up top, easy to isolate and I have Di Napoli going around kicking Gullit's injured knee all game.

This should go to pens in my opinion or there should be a very narrow win in either direction.

Btw, and most importantly --------------->  Cheers to Robbie in his first RAWK DRAFT!!! May you come back again and again with as many of my sister wives as you can carry!

[Linudden]

Making your case is all fine, except RAWK won't allow votes to be reversed whatever my opinion might be now after that wall of text 

[RobbieRedman]

Btw, and most importantly --------------->  Cheers to Robbie in his first RAWK DRAFT!!! May you come back again and again with as many of my sister wives as you can carry!

Thank you Trend, it's been a pleasure. Looking forward to many more.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Making your case is all fine, except RAWK won't allow votes to be reversed whatever my opinion might be now after that wall of text 

Trying to stop the onslaught -- from your posts (I think I am 0-2 in your voting predilections

Down 8-7, trying to get to pens again at least.

[mikey_LFC]

Mike team is good, but Van Basten, Schuster and Zambrotta have nothing to do in a 90s draft. And let’s just say Luis Enrique as the number 10 and more creative player doesn’t bode well for his two strikers. Hopefully people can see through the cheese.

van Basten won the Ballon d’or in the 90s, how’s he not allowed. These cheese nonsense completely ruined the draft I’d say. Seems like people wanted a World Cup 98 draft instead.

Schuster was a top player for three top clubs for 6 years of the 90s. He won best foreign player in la Liga in the 90s and then got in the bundesliga team of the year in 94.

Zambrotta was first choice right back for a great Italian and Juventus side by 1999, but I guess they must have plucked him from kindergarten!

I get people will say whatever to get votes, taking their strategy from the general election I guess, but wish it was more about the tactics and less about the selections of people who are clearly well within the draft rules. That sort of chat is just, well cheesy.

Lastrador’s strength is his midfield with three good players, but my four in there give me a numerical advantage and with the work rate of Keane and Almeyda that more than takes away that strength for Lastrador.

The goals up top in a team that would likely dominate possession should give me a comfortable win in this one. A front two of Fowler and van Basten, supported by a goalscoring midfielder like Enrique (once game third top scorer in la Liga with 18 goals) is something drafting dreams are made of.

Lastrador would have to rely on quick counters but the pace and power of Campbell and Stam, shielded by Keane is perfect for countering that threat too. The full backs are also given space and time in these formations which you don’t want to give to great creative full backs like Cafu and Zambrotta.

Against another side Lastrador could well be a worthy semi finalist as I really like his team, just happens that is main threats are attacking my strongest areas so he’d likely be nullified against my team.

Whatever happens, good drafting Lastrador!

[Betty Blue]

van Basten won the Ballon d’or in the 90s, how’s he not allowed. These cheese nonsense completely ruined the draft I’d say. Seems like people wanted a World Cup 98 draft instead.

Schuster was a top player for three top clubs for 6 years of the 90s. He won best foreign player in la Liga in the 90s and then got in the bundesliga team of the year in 94.

Zambrotta was first choice right back for a great Italian and Juventus side by 1999, but I guess they must have plucked him from kindergarten!

If anything I'd say the opposite. Cheesy picks should have been called out far more from the outset. Maybe that's the problem though. Calling them out after the fact led to a load of teams being buttfucked in the vote for having picks they probably wouldn't have made had people been calling such picks out in the first place! So I kind of get your point. Even if personally I think we all really missed a trick not going full 90s rather than just drafting normally and going after all the obvious best names. I would have loved something a little closer to the Hipster draft.

[mikey_LFC]

If anything I'd say the opposite. Cheesy picks should have been called out far more from the outset. Maybe that's the problem though. Calling them out after the fact led to a load of teams being buttfucked in the vote for having picks they probably wouldn't have made had people been calling such picks out in the first place! So I kind of get your point. Even if personally I think we all really missed a trick not going full 90s rather than just drafting normally and going after all the obvious best names. I would have loved something a little closer to the Hipster draft.

The issue is people are saying that players shouldn’t be picked because the 90s was their decade or the decade they played their best football, but footballers mostly have careers that are 12-18 years long, so the chances are most players are going to overlap two decades and so even though they were great in the 90s, people are apparently not supposed to pick them.

If you wanted a draft that was to pick the most 90s side that’s different from pick the best side of people who played enough games in the 90s. I’d drafted on quality in the 90s being the main aspect, but I can see what you’re looking for was something like players who you most think of when thinking about 90s football. Which sounds a good draft, it just wasn’t what this draft was sold as.

[Betty Blue]

The issue is people are saying that players shouldn’t be picked because the 90s was their decade or the decade they played their best football, but footballers mostly have careers that are 12-18 years long, so the chances are most players are going to overlap two decades and so even though they were great in the 90s, people are apparently not supposed to pick them.

If you wanted a draft that was to pick the most 90s side that’s different from pick the best side of people who played enough games in the 90s. I’d drafted on quality in the 90s being the main aspect, but I can see what you’re looking for was something like players who you most think of when thinking about 90s football. Which sounds a good draft, it just wasn’t what this draft was sold as.

Yeah, I totally get you mate. I understand I have a big part to play in the calling out of cheese! But to me it's just a bit of fun. Us all drafting a bunch of names and saying nowt is boring as fuck. The best bit of drafting has always been the banter. The Bodo, Gullit, and Konoplyanka moments. That's the shit we all remember. I know others enjoy the tactical element but I've always liked that RAWK drafting is a bit more lighthearted than over on Redcafe for example. I've written paragaraphs and paragraphs of text arguing tactics with other drafters in the past too, but these days I don't really have the time for it. I'm happy to see others doing so though. Ultimately it's good to remember it's all a bit of a laugh and not to be taken too seriously.

Anyway, yeah I agree that some players being called out don't deserve it. Especially as that's not how the draft was set out. Van Basten or Schuster are not cheese in the context of the draft.

[PoetryInMotion]

Return of the wives 

It happened in the last round too 

[mikey_LFC]

Completely agree.

Best thing I’ve seen this whole draft is that cheese picture you made of Zambrotta haha. Laughed for ages on that.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Return of the wives 

it cuts both ways... never assume wives are rooting for one team.  They seem to be angry at this moment.

Cannot tell the difference between Gullit and his robot.

[Crosby Nick]

Finally the eternal Roberto Carlos vs Steve Staunton debate will finally be settled once and for all.

[Lastrador]

van Basten won the Ballon d’or in the 90s, how’s he not allowed. These cheese nonsense completely ruined the draft I’d say. Seems like people wanted a World Cup 98 draft instead.

Schuster was a top player for three top clubs for 6 years of the 90s. He won best foreign player in la Liga in the 90s and then got in the bundesliga team of the year in 94.

Zambrotta was first choice right back for a great Italian and Juventus side by 1999, but I guess they must have plucked him from kindergarten!

I get people will say whatever to get votes, taking their strategy from the general election I guess, but wish it was more about the tactics and less about the selections of people who are clearly well within the draft rules. That sort of chat is just, well cheesy.

Lastrador’s strength is his midfield with three good players, but my four in there give me a numerical advantage and with the work rate of Keane and Almeyda that more than takes away that strength for Lastrador.

The goals up top in a team that would likely dominate possession should give me a comfortable win in this one. A front two of Fowler and van Basten, supported by a goalscoring midfielder like Enrique (once game third top scorer in la Liga with 18 goals) is something drafting dreams are made of.

Lastrador would have to rely on quick counters but the pace and power of Campbell and Stam, shielded by Keane is perfect for countering that threat too. The full backs are also given space and time in these formations which you don’t want to give to great creative full backs like Cafu and Zambrotta.

Against another side Lastrador could well be a worthy semi finalist as I really like his team, just happens that is main threats are attacking my strongest areas so he’d likely be nullified against my team.

Whatever happens, good drafting Lastrador!

I was taking the piss more than anything mate. I just think when you make a 90s draft people should try to pick players who played their best or had a long career at that decade, that’s the spirit of the draft.

Van Basten is my favourite striker ever and obviously he’s allowed, but his mark on that decade isn’t a patch of what he was on the 80’s, primarily because of all the injuries he suffered which led him to retire so young. Schuster was on his 30s in the 90s and he already had played his best football at Real and Barca. He still was a great player, but again not a patch on what he was at his best. Zambrotta is a great fullback, but he was 23 when the decade ended, and he didn’t peaked until a few years later.

The problem I have with this picks is that people can’t seem to acknowledge this things when voting, not with the people picking them.

You still have a great side, but painfully short of creativity in the middle. Playing two pure Dms in Almeyda and Keane, plus an aging number 6 in Schuster, with Luis Enrique as the most attacking player, who was an all action midfielder but wasn’t a creative player, will make it very hard to create anything for your two strikers.

Your team also relays two heavily on your fullbacks to have any wide, which will create a lot of space for my quick wide forwards to operate.

I just think my team is much more balanced and can’t see how you would find the spaces to really hurt it.

[RobbieRedman]

Finally the eternal Roberto Carlos vs Steve Staunton debate will finally be settled once and for all.

It's not all about the left backs Nick...picking on our last championship wining left back? tut tut

Staunton rarely put a foot wrong, unlike someone I could mention......

[Trendisnotdestiny]

It's not all about the left backs Nick...picking on our last championship wining left back? tut tut

Staunton rarely put a foot wrong, unlike someone I could mention......

Very Funny Funny Barthez's groin

[Crosby Nick]

Showing your age there young Robert. As an old veteran who saw us clinch the title against QPR and life the trophy against Derby I’m delighted to tell you that David Burrows was left back for most of that title winning season.

[RobbieRedman]

Showing your age there young Robert. As an old veteran who saw us clinch the title against QPR and life the trophy against Derby I’m delighted to tell you that David Burrows was left back for most of that title winning season.

Burrows made 26 appearances to Stauntons 20 according to lfchistory.net, hardly as if Staunton didn't figure, I was 15 that year and I remember Burrows would make the odd start in CM, he man marked Gasgoine in one match. Anyway, Staunton was the better left back in that decade without any doubt and I bet you he scored more free kicks than Carlos too

I bet Carlos never scored from a corner either

[Elzar]

I really struggled to pick a winner in game 2. I do love me a German.

[Crosby Nick]

Robbie and Mikey for me.

For me Robbie has the stronger centre backs and keeper, a solid midfield two and some very good forward options. Just edges it for me.

In the other game I think Lastrador has the stronger midfield but defence and attack gives Mikey the edge.

[RobbieRedman]

Very Funny Funny Barthez's groin

he was chipped by Suker too!

[Red Viper]

Trend and Mikey and it's not even close. Frauds and cheese all over the other two teams.

[Elzar]

Just over an hour left. Looking like not enough votes are going to come in to change the results though.

[mikey_LFC]

Pens again! Unless..

[Betty Blue]

8 consecutive votes for mikey now. Damn, that's gotta hurt for Lasty. Wives everywhere.

[Elzar]

Pens again! Unless..

What happened? Has Robbie knicked it at the last?

[RobbieRedman]

What happened? Has Robbie knicked it at the last?

Kloppage time! Let's go wives! Still time for Trend to marry again and register a vote

[Elzar]

It's bounced off Barthez baldy head, onto the bar and Divock Origullit has tapped it in! Robbie is on the pitch

[RobbieRedman]

It's bounced off Barthez baldy head, onto the bar and Divock Origullit has tapped it in! Robbie is on the pitch

You damn right I am!

Pheeewww!! That was close. hard luck Trend, you put up a great effort, i'll have to be better prepared next time our paths cross.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Great gobs of Gullit's 90's goiter - Robbie's lads found a way to win!  Congrats.

At home in the Trend man cave, wives can be heard saying: "just put down the keyboard" - enough now.  Its time to spend time with just us".  A frightened man in his 50's, looks at the wall and knows more than one wife was always going to be a problem.  Told to him by his comrade in arms (Djozer) long ago, the mic drop of truth just fell down.

Fickle follicles of fantasy football I guess.  To all who made the dream happen, we thank you.  To all of those in need of a spare wife, please see DeFacto (as he has fantastic lease terms).

To all of those who opposed us vigorously, we'll see you next time.

 

[mikey_LFC]

Congrats Robbie, and well played Lastrador, thought you had me for a bit there.

[Elzar]

Congrats Robbie, and well played Lastrador, thought you had me for a bit there.

They have just gone up. I suppose making them no longer semis