Topic: The Indomitable Ibou

[killer-heels]

Bloody hope not. It’s really important he has a full preseason with us as he may be our senior CB foe the start of the season or at least the fittest senior CB. It’s not fair to expect Virgil, Matip and Gomez to be firing on all cylinders straight away.

From his perspective, it’s a great opportunity to establish himself as one of the first names on the team sheet even when those lads are back.

He will get a pre season but good chance he goes to the Olympics. We could start the centrebacks and then take them out once Konate returns.

Either way, we will need Phillips and Williams about.

[PeterTheRed ...]

He will get a pre season but good chance he goes to the Olympics. We could start the centrebacks and then take them out once Konate returns.

Either way, we will need Phillips and Williams about.

I doubt that Konate will be going to the Olympics ...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=Abwehr&spielerposition_id=3&altersklasse=alle&jahrgang=0&land_id=50&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

[Welshred]

I doubt that Konate will be going to the Olympics ...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=Abwehr&spielerposition_id=3&altersklasse=alle&jahrgang=0&land_id=50&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

It's an under 23 tournament though and you can only have 3 over 23 players. Generally players who have been at the Euro's don't go to the Olympics so you can probably rule out Konde, Varane, Lenglet, Kimpembe and Zouma

[PeterTheRed ...]

It's an under 23 tournament though and you can only have 3 over 23 players. Generally players who have been at the Euro's don't go to the Olympics so you can probably rule out Konde, Varane, Lenglet, Kimpembe and Zouma

Still, France have so many young central defenders ...

[killer-heels]

Still, France have so many young central defenders ...

I’d like to thing he was one of their better young central defenders? Wouldn’t a international manager want a good defender there?

[Samie]

Killer I don't think you realise the depth of France's centre back options over the next decade.  It is scary good.

[Dim Glas]

Mbappe is on France’s preliminary list for the Olympics. Doesn’t mean much, cos there’s about 80 players on it! But apparently he wants to go.

[Welshred]

Still, France have so many young central defenders ...

They do but why would you not choose one of the better ones who's just been part of your central defensive partnership for the U21s for a tournament they're eligible to play in?

[killer-heels]

Killer I don't think you realise the depth of France's centre back options over the next decade.  It is scary good.

I totally get that but they will want the majority of them being U23. Is Konate not one of their best defenders under that age range?

[PeterTheRed ...]

They do but why would you not choose one of the better ones who's just been part of your central defensive partnership for the U21s for a tournament they're eligible to play in?

Because they would probably like to give a chance to the other players not selected for the Euros and the U-21 Euros. They have so many talented young central defenders, they don't need to risk one of them having 2 summer tournaments ...

[Dim Glas]

I totally get that but they will want the majority of them being U23. Is Konate not one of their best defenders under that age range?

Konate captained their U21 team too, of all the talented central defenders they have, he is defo up there near the top.

[Welshred]

They only played one game in the Euro U21s and got knocked out

[Dim Glas]

They only played one game in the Euro U21s and got knocked out

and?

I am not getting the hilarity?

[Sangria]

Which reminds me of that time when Brazil played Argentina in the Olympics and their respective over-age players Lucas and Mascherano spent their time kicking lumps out of each other. Lucas might have been red carded for going in hard on Mascherano.

[Welshred]

and?

I am not getting the hilarity?

He makes it sound like they played a whole tournament of 6 or 7 matches by saying they won't risk them in 2 summer tournaments. It was literally one match.

[Dim Glas]

He makes it sound like they played a whole tournament of 6 or 7 matches by saying they won't risk them in 2 summer tournaments. It was literally one match.

right!

Yeah, they split the tournament up, he only played 1 of the 3 group games too. So defo isn’t overplayed for them 

They really could pick from a pool of about 10 central defenders, and have a strong group, they have so much depth there. 

[Welshred]

They have an extremely strong group to pick from, and of those they could pick Konate is in the top two or three so I don't see why they wouldn't pick him.

[PeterTheRed ...]

They only played one game in the Euro U21s and got knocked out

They have also played the group stages games in March, and had preparations for the knock-out stages. France selected Varane, Kounde, Kimpembe, Lenglet and Zouma for the Euros, Upamecano, Konate, Badiashile, Disasi and Cozza for the U-21 Euros, and they are still to pick Fofana, N'Dicka, Lacroix, Zagadou or Simakan. They can afford not to risk their young players, and develop them simultaneously ...

[Welshred]

Playing any of those players they played in their single Euro U21 game after the season ended will be putting them at risk of anything should they be picked for the Olympics.

They may well want to pick other players for the Olympics for development reasons but you saying Konate is unlikely to go to the Olympics is wrong when he's one of the better ones that they have available.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Playing any of those players they played in their single Euro U21 game after the season ended will be putting them at risk of anything should they be picked for the Olympics.

They may well want to pick other players for the Olympics for development reasons but you saying Konate is unlikely to go to the Olympics is wrong when he's one of the better ones that they have available.

Konate has just joined a new club in a new league. France would want him to adapt well to his new environment. They are smart when it comes to developing their players. That is why they are World champions ...

[Welshred]

Konate has just joined a new club in a new league. France would want him to adapt well to his new environment. They are smart when it comes to developing their players. That is why they are World champions ...

You're just making stuff up now to fit your original statement. Can't you just admit you were wrong for a change and say that there's a decent chance that as one of their better under 23 centre backs he has a fairly good chance of going to the Olympics? Or are you just going to remain stubborn and continue to present your opinion as fact?

[Gerry Attrick]

Konate has just joined a new club in a new league. France would want him to adapt well to his new environment. They are smart when it comes to developing their players. That is why they are World champions ...

Are you unable to reply to posters without being condescending? Every single thread you're replying to everyone like you're the smartest person in the room and everyone needs educating.

[classycarra]

Are you unable to reply to posters without being condescending? Every single thread you're replying to everyone like you're the smartest person in the room and everyone needs educating.

Amen. Also, what on earth does that even mean?!

As if an international football setup thinks 'Ooh, I'd like to pick him but I know he's looking for a flat to rent in a new city right now so let's not distubr him. Maybe next tournament, let's be smart!'

[PeterTheRed ...]

Amen. Also, what on earth does that even mean?!

As if an international football setup thinks 'Ooh, I'd like to pick him but I know he's looking for a flat to rent in a new city right now so let's not distubr him. Maybe next tournament, let's be smart!'

It means that France are giving their young and talented players time and space to grow, and to develop properly, instead of proclaiming them World class at the age of 21, and putting the weight of the entire nation's expectations on their shoulders. That is why Upamecano and Konate are not at the Euros. That is why France are winning the top honors, and England aren't. It is a completely different national team culture ...

[newterp]

That seems like a massive amount of speculation.

[Dim Glas]

Someone better tell them they picked Jules Kounde by mistake.

[PeterTheRed ...]

That seems like a massive amount of speculation.

I have only stated my opinion that Konate won't be selected for the Olympics, and explained why I think so. People have responded by saying that he deserves to be picked. Of course that he deserves. Based on his talent, he should have also been picked for the Euros, ahead of Lenglet and Zouma, but France symply don't work that way ...

[classycarra]

It means that France are giving their young and talented players time and space to grow, and to develop properly, instead of proclaiming them World class at the age of 21, and putting the weight of the entire nation's expectations on their shoulders. That is why Upamecano and Konate are not at the Euros. That is why France are winning the top honors, and England aren't. It is a completely different national team culture ...

Yet more post-hoc rationalisation - https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/post-hoc.html

Seriously, you've taken Konate not making the main squad and really run with it to the point you seem to have convinced yourself about some kind of culture of not rushing young players in the team.

But Dim Glas's example of Kounde disproves your idea, and suggests the pattern you think you've spotted is more of a coincidence.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Yet more post-hoc rationalisation - https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/post-hoc.html

Seriously, you've taken Konate not making the main squad and really run with it to the point you seem to have convinced yourself about some kind of culture of not rushing young players in the team.

But Dim Glas's example of Kounde disproves your idea, and suggests the pattern you think you've spotted is more of a coincidence.

Kounde is one 22-year old picked for the squad, with 4 other senior central defenders. Upamecano and Konate were not picked. If this was the English team, all 3 of them would have been picked, and Lenglet and Zouma would have been nowhere near the team. It is a different culture, and it brings results. You should think about it as English fans, before ruining the career of Sancho, Bellingham and the other talented youngsters you have. I have seen claims in the transfer thread that Bellingham is already worth £80 million ...

[classycarra]

Kounde is one 22-year old picked for the squad, with 4 other senior central defenders. Upamecano and Konate were not picked. If this was the English team, all 3 of them would have been picked, and Lenglet and Zouma would have been nowhere near the team. It is a different culture, and it brings results.

There you go again, with madcap hypothetical theories trying to find patterns that aren't there, then passing it off as fact (delivered with text book superiority).

You should think about it as English fans, before ruining the career of Sancho, Bellingham and the other talented youngsters you have. I have already seen claims in the transfer thread that Bellingham is already worth £80 million ...

  and there you go again with your casual jingoism that makes it look slightly weird you post on a site populated by people who you seem to hold a real contempt for, and love denigrating as football fans.


Also wtf, what can fans do about the career of Sancho and Bellingham through the medium of posts on RAWK?! I reckon the impact on their careers is going to be pretty minimal.

[palimpsest]

Kounde is one 22-year old picked for the squad, with 4 other senior central defenders. Upamecano and Konate were not picked. If this was the English team, all 3 of them would have been picked, and Lenglet and Zouma would have been nowhere near the team. It is a different culture, and it brings results. You should think about it as English fans, before ruining the career of Sancho, Bellingham and the other talented youngsters you have. I have seen claims in the transfer thread that Bellingham is already worth £80 million ...

Can you point to any piece of evidence that might back up your claim about France having a policy of protecting their young players? Any interviews, articles that point to this being the case?

[PeterTheRed ...]

There you go again, with madcap hypothetical theories trying to find patterns that aren't there, then passing it off as fact (delivered with text book superiority).

  and there you go again with your casual jingoism that makes it look slightly weird you post on a site populated by people who you seem to hold a real contempt for, and love denigrating as football fans.


Also wtf, what can fans do about the career of Sancho and Bellingham through the medium of posts on RAWK?! I reckon the impact on their careers is going to be pretty minimal.

As an outsider, I can see where France do it right, and where England do it wrong. I am not bothered with either nation winning or losing. You love to over-rate and over-hype your young English players, and it usually ends up in failure. You should have learned by now where are you doing it wrong. Konate will become an awesome player. He has the luck to come from a national team setup that gives great footballing education, and has ended up at a club with a manager who loves to develop players. He doesn't need the Olympics to be a success. He will go there only if Klopp thinks that it would benefit him. Somehow, I think that both France and Klopp would want him to have a full pre-season with us ...

[Dim Glas]

I have no idea if Konate is likely to be picked, but i am reasonably sure they wont give much of a shit about Liverpool’s feelings!

[PeterTheRed ...]

Can you point to any piece of evidence that might back up your claim about France having a policy of protecting their young players? Any interviews, articles that point to this being the case?

These are the most valuable French players ...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=alle&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=alle&jahrgang=0&land_id=50&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

This is their squad for the Euros ...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/frankreich/kader/verein/3377/saison_id/2020

Do you notice something interesting?

[classycarra]

As an outsider, I can see where France do it right, and where England do it wrong. I am not bothered with either nation winning or losing. You love to over-rate and over-hype your young English players, and it usually ends up in failure. You should have learned by now where are you doing it wrong.

Speaking of things that should have been learned by now, it's really fucking ugly behaviour to generalise people based on their nationality. It'd be bad if I ignorantly thought all Macedonians were really (misguidedly) condescending and smug just because of one we know, right?

And for all your shit takes on all of us living in England on this website's community, the worst example of overrating an English player I can remember seeing recently came from you You suggested Rashford had the potential to be world class until he was moved to a wide forward role, and suggested Sancho joining United would weaken them if Rashford was moved from left forward. If that view on Rashford, a pretty average England player, is not overhyping I don't know what is.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Speaking of things that should have been learned by now, it's really fucking ugly behaviour to generalise people based on their nationality. It'd be bad if I ignorantly thought all Macedonians were really (misguidedly) condescending and smug just because of one we know, right?

And for all your shit takes on all of us living in England on this website's community, the worst example of overrating an English player I can remember seeing recently came from you You suggested Rashford had the potential to be world class until he was moved to a wide forward role, and suggested Sancho joining United would weaken them if Rashford was moved from left forward. If that view on Rashford, a pretty average England player, is not overhyping I don't know what is.

Rashford was an amazing talent. Under a manager like Klopp, he would have developed into a genuine World class player. One of the better examples of a talented young English player crushed by the expectations. It is actually quite shocking how much talent you have managed to waste in recent years ...

[classycarra]

Rashford was an amazing talent. Under a manager like Klopp, he would have developed into a genuine World class player. One of the better examples of a talented young English player crushed by the expectations. It is actually quite shocking how much talent you have managed to waste in recent years ...

oh you doubled down

So let's get this straight, you think he was destined to be a world class player under a great manager. But that he's also an example of someone who didn't achieve their potential because he was crushed by the expectations (of people who thought he looked a decent talent in his debut seasons).

Seems like not dealing with that pressure would be a pretty big hindrance to becoming one of the best players in the world..........what would I know though, I'm just a thick lowly liverpool supporter

Anyway I'm gonna leave you to your 'logical fallacy+casual xenophobia=success' posts and call it a night.

[palimpsest]

These are the most valuable French players ...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/spieler-statistik/wertvollstespieler/marktwertetop/plus/0/galerie/0?ausrichtung=alle&spielerposition_id=alle&altersklasse=alle&jahrgang=0&land_id=50&kontinent_id=0&yt0=Show

This is their squad for the Euros ...

https://www.transfermarkt.com/frankreich/kader/verein/3377/saison_id/2020

Do you notice something interesting?

That doesn’t answer my question. That’s just you observing a correlation between two sets of data, and implying a causal relationship between them. So let me ask again: is there anything to support your view that France has a policy of protecting its young players in the way you suggest?

[Hidegkuti]

How old was Mbappe before he became a mainstay and main attacking threat for the French team - I think I may have dreamt his involvement as a teenager in the senior team that won the WC, where he basically carried their attack...   

Not sure if the 2018 WC was available in Macadonia...?

[newterp]

I have only stated my opinion that Konate won't be selected for the Olympics, and explained why I think so. People have responded by saying that he deserves to be picked. Of course that he deserves. Based on his talent, he should have also been picked for the Euros, ahead of Lenglet and Zouma, but France symply don't work that way ...

I guess so - but it's seems like you are trying too hard to justify it. Anyway - not knocking you.