Topic: Safe Standing ( split from: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield)

[Alf Garnett]

From about 1974. Why?

Do you seriously think you could get almost twice the amount of people in that stand?

[CraigDS]

Do you seriously think you could get almost twice the amount of people in that stand?

That's what the current safe standing in Germany does, roughly.

[Peter McGurk]

Are you saying you could get 2x people in each current space?

Yes. Have you ever stood in a standing stand or did you go to the FSF safe standing roadshow at The Sandon?

[Alf Garnett]

That's what the current safe standing in Germany does, roughly.

Next time you go on the Kop look at the space taken by yourself the 2x people each side of you and the 4x rows of people opinion front of you, 20 people are in that space, how many more people do you think could be 'safely' put in that area?

[Alf Garnett]

Yes. Have you ever stood in a standing stand or did you go to the FSF safe standing roadshow at The Sandon?

The safe standing roadshow would have a purpose built standing area then when seats are lowered the capacity is halved, not a seating area then when the seats are raised the capacity is doubled, massive difference.

[CraigDS]

Next time you go on the Kop look at the space taken by yourself the 2x people each side of you and the 4x rows of people opinion front of you, 20 people are in that space, how many more people do you think could be 'safely' put in that area.

As Peter said... Have you ever stood in a standing stand or did you go to the FSF safe standing roadshow at The Sandon?

[Alf Garnett]

As Peter said... Have you ever stood in a standing stand or did you go to the FSF safe standing roadshow at The Sandon?

I can see with my own eyes and use my brain to know that the 12000 capacity Kop could not safely hold 20000 people.

[Peter McGurk]

The safe standing roadshow would have a purpose built standing area then when seats are lowered the capacity is halved, not a seating area then when the seats are raised the capacity is doubled, massive difference.

One divided by two equals a half. And a half multiplied by two equals?

Seriously, the space standards for sitting and standing still apply - whichever way it's done.

[Alf Garnett]

All right mate. You know best.

Ah you've realised I'm right, glad you thought about it.

[Alf Garnett]

One divided by two equals a half. And a half multiplied by two equals?

Seriously, the space standards for sitting and standing still apply - whichever way it's done.

Oh my God.

[Peter McGurk]

Oh my God.

Because if you had stood on a standing terrace or been to the FSF roadshow or been to a ground that had safe standing or listened to the stadium manager at Dortmund or the DFL or the UK building regulations or the FA or the police or the FSF or even read just a bit about it, you would know that the capacity of a safe standing area is almost double that of the same area seating.

Or you could work it out for yourself.

[Alf Garnett]

Because if you had stood on a standing terrace or been to the FSF roadshow or been to a ground that had safe standing or listened to the stadium manager at Dortmund or the DFL or the UK building regulations or the FA or the police or the FSF or even read just a bit about it, you would know that the capacity of a safe standing area is almost double that of the same area seating.

Or you could work it out for yourself.

Stand at your seat next home game, your area for your feet is 2foot deep, could someone stand in front of you to watch the game? Yes or no.

[CraigDS]

Stand at your seat next home game, your area for your feet is 2foot deep, could someone stand in front of you to watch the game? Yes or no.

Why are you comparing standing where your seat is to standing in a safe standing area? They aren't the same.

[Peter McGurk]

Stand at your seat next home game, your area for your feet is 2foot deep, could someone stand in front of you to watch the game? Yes or no.

Look at the pictures. The seats folds into the depth of the frame. Does your seat on the kop do that? No.

Or measure the length of your thigh from your backside to your knee, add the thickness of your seat on the kop and see how many can stand in that distance. Better yet go to Dortmund and stand in the South Stand and count heads and seats.

So yes, you can get two people standing where one sits.

[Alf Garnett]

Look at the pictures. The seats folds into the depth of the frame. Does your seat on the kop do that? No.

Or measure the length of your thigh from your backside to your knee, add the thickness of your seat on the kop and see how many can stand in that distance. Better yet go to Dortmund and stand in the South Stand and count heads and seats.

So yes, you can get two people standing where one sits.

2x people can stand in one seating area on the Kop?

Unbelievable.

[CraigDS]

2x people can stand in one seating area on the Kop?

Unbelievable.

4 seats...



8 people in those 4 seats...

[Alf Garnett]

4 seats...



8 people in those 4 seats...

Yes very nice, now show it me the the other way with 8 people in 4 of the seats we have now.

[CraigDS]

Yes very nice, now show it me the the other way with 16 people in 8 of the seats we have now.

What are you on about? There is no other way, that is how it works.

If 8 fit in the space of 4, then 16 fit in the space of 8 (and 32 in space of 16, etc, etc before you need help working that out too).

[Alf Garnett]

What are you on about? There is no other way, that is how it works.

If 8 fit in the space of 4, then 16 fit in the space of 8 (and 32 in space of 16, etc, etc before you need help working that out too).

Those 4 seats in the nice little mock up take up a hell of a lot more space than 4 seats that we have now, yes or no?

[CraigDS]

Those 4 seats in the nice little mock up take up a hell of a lot more space than 4 seats that we have now, yes or no?

No. I believe they pretty much match the Kop currently.

[Alf Garnett]

No. I believe they pretty much match the Kop currently.

Try having someone stood in front of you next game, you will see it's not possible in the current Kop without total reconstruction of the steps.

[CraigDS]

Try having someone stood in front of you next game, you will see it's not possible in the current Kop without total reconstruction of the steps.

I believe Peter has the sizes of the steps on the Kop and they meet guidelines for the German safe standing method shown in those pictures.

[Welshred]

Try having someone stood in front of you next game, you will see it's not possible in the current Kop without total reconstruction of the steps.

You been in 306? Easily 2 people standing at 1 seat in there!

[ghost1359]

Try having someone stood in front of you next game, you will see it's not possible in the current Kop without total reconstruction of the steps.

More than likely what would happen anyway, all of this would have been measured out by looking at plans and figuring out the square footage. Even if they did have to redo it, what does that matter anyway?

[Always_A_Red]

2x people can stand in one seating area on the Kop?

Unbelievable.

Are you just arguing just for the sake of arguing??   

Why are you even comparing the KOP now with plastic seats to safe standing with metal seats? If you stand/sit on the KOP you will know that the seats are curved. The seat in front of you bend a little into the row behind and also when folded they stick out because they don't fully fold straight into the frame like the safe standing ones do. That space is what is saved and therefore you can get more people in there.

You are speaking as if what you are saying is fact when in fact it couldn't be any more wrong. You are talking your opinion without actually doing any research or bother finding out whether or not what you are saying is true.

Get yourself over to Dortmund mate and you will see how it can be implemented safely and yes, it is the same space as the rows at Anfield currently.

[BER]

Hypothetically, what would happen if the club installed the safe standing type seating just on the basis that the current situation is unsafe, and didnt ever announce that standing was now officially allowed?

[CraigDS]

Hypothetically, what would happen if the club installed the safe standing type seating just on the basis that the current situation is unsafe, and didnt ever announce that standing was now officially allowed?

They could install the rails, but they would have to comply with the current UK seating regs, and could only sell one ticket per space, so would be pointless.

[Peter McGurk]

They could install the rails, but they would have to comply with the current UK seating regs, and could only sell one ticket per space, so would be pointless.

On the other hand, it would be safer. That is, safer than not getting people to sit down.

[CraigDS]

On the other hand, it would be safer. That is, safer than not getting people to sit down.

Yeah, agree with that. However I can't see them going to the expense of doing it if it has no monetary return.

[andy07]

Anyone on here who would actually prefer to sit down at an away match, none of us do now?   Bring back standing in a controlled manner,  better atmosphere all round.

[ghost1359]

Much as I want it to happen it will never happen inside Anfield anyway, as long as the families are against the idea which last I checked they were, it simply won't happen. Personally I feel like the decision shouldn't be in their hands but ultimately the club will always respect their decision.

[Peter McGurk]

Much as I want it to happen it will never happen inside Anfield anyway, as long as the families are against the idea which last I checked they were, it simply won't happen. Personally I feel like the decision shouldn't be in their hands but ultimately the club will always respect their decision.

It's beyond reasonable to expect the families to take that responsibility. Their views are clear. Standing was a contributory factor and they want no part of it. This is something else. It's not standing as we knew it but if there is to be change (and there should be) it's ultimately the responsibility of government to change the law.

[ghost1359]

It's beyond reasonable to expect the families to take that responsibility. Their views are clear. Standing was a contributory factor and they want no part of it. This is something else. It's not standing as we knew it but if there is to be change (and there should be) it's ultimately the responsibility of government to change the law.

Well exactly which is why personally I don't think they should be part of any decision making process. Safe standing is not terracing and pens and the decision should be made purely on whether it is a safer option than the current model which I believe is absolutely the case.

[hoppyLFC]

Not relavant to Anfield but here is an article on a poll of 17.000 Arsenal fans, on various things but also says over 90% are in favour of a trial for safe standing at the Emirates.

http://www.blackscarfafc.co.uk/uploads/2/1/1/2/21123492/black_scarf_movement_emirates_stadium_atmosphere_survey_2013-14.pdf

[nostalgicexred]

Given the time of year… Yuletide Greeting to one and all.

With regard to my subject matter… welcoming back managed terracing/standing
At all G.B. Football Grounds.

Considering my attendance, intervention/help as a supporter at the 1989 FA cup semi-final at Hillsborough (also there in 1988) you would expect me to reject the matter….?
Liverpool F.C. didn’t as they continued to have managed terracing/standing on the Kop until May of the 1993/4 season, Over Four years after the disaster/debacle/ tragedy happened!

Borussia Dortmund (to date) have a flexible standing- seating set up in there stadium
Aston Villa’s Club & Supporters raised the issue and the premier league are “at-least” looking at it. If it does happen (I hope so!) it would be properly/safely managed regarding numbers of supporters being counted, with up to date turnstiles and no fencing in.

This would stop the irritating situation of masses of people standing up; when people have genuinely bought tickets to sit down (we have all been there!)
If managed terracing came back, I would assume a lower price in that area thus encouraging people on lower incomes being able to come back to the mach again.

To Conclude

For years after Hillsborough, L.F.C. along with other premiership clubs and lower league football clubs had standing areas without any problems!
If we had standing areas again, it would give us a choice as we don’t any option now?           
Those standing areas would be properly managed and safe unlike the past!
They could be the place where the real/traditional football atmosphere would be generated!

Today (post Hillsborough) organisations have to arrange and justify there actions, Yesterday (pre Hillsborough) they didn’t…     
It would be safely organised and scrutinised now! I want the option to STAND?

   


 

[CraigDS]

I'd stay clear from using the term terracing as today's 'safe standing' is as far from that as you can get and it gives the wrong impression to people who don't know the details of how safe standing is set up.

[StrikingMidfield]

Wouldn't effect us directly, but it certainly would help the safe standing argument if something were to be made of this.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25526329

[LGarcia10]

Everybody stands and moves forward when we're close to goal so I don't see the difference..

Love the idea of rail seats, seem perfect for us but highly doubt it will happen.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/

[666]

Everybody stands and moves forward when we're close to goal so I don't see the difference..

Love the idea of rail seats, seem perfect for us but highly doubt it will happen.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/

To be honest, what people must realise is that it wasn't just Standing that caused the Hillsborough, but poor stadium, overcrowding, fencing, police, the management of course was shocking etc... Germans have shown they can do it, and Championship clubs are getting close too. Hopefully that could cause a domino effect and we could see it introduced again. But if there is ever a club against standing, it's us.

[۩ Imperator ۩]

This needs to be an issue given full consideration before we redevelop, that's for sure.