Topic: Dog Attacks

[ljycb]

Would you put St. Bernards, Golden Retrievers, Border Collies & Great Danes in the same bracket ?

When I was growing up everybody wanted German Sheps & Chow Chows banned.

We’ve got a golden retriever and she’s never been allowed off her lead. The only time that we’ve ever done it was when we rented out a field for her which was properly fenced off. She is a friendly dog, but she wants to say hello to everyone and there are plenty of people out there who don’t want any breed of dog coming up to them.

[Mahern]

At the absolute minimum that's what should be happening and on lead at all times. It blows my mind to sometimes see owners letting these types of dog run around children and others in parks. So irresponsible and also unfair to other people who want to enjoy the same area but don't like dogs, or many who are scared of dogs. Such shitty, selfish behaviour.

Agree, and proper leads that control the head, not those harness things that give a strong dog something to pull against. I've got two malamutes, the male is as big as a person. Is bred to pull heavy load, like 1 ton plus. No way a dog that strong (or even quarter of its size) can be controlled in a harness if it decides it wants after something. I can only hold them back with a traditional lead if say they lunge for a cat or squirrel. The other thing is, doesn't matter how well conditioned your dog is, it only takes someone else's yappy little bastard off the leash to cause a situation.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

We’ve got a golden retriever and she’s never been allowed off her lead. The only time that we’ve ever done it was when we rented out a field for her which was properly fenced off. She is a friendly dog, but she wants to say hello to everyone and there are plenty of people out there who don’t want any breed of dog coming up to them.

So you muzzle her every time you leave the house ?

[kellan]

I honestly don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but let's say breeds are banned on the basis of being more naturally inclined to pose a danger - could people not just cross-breed their way around the ban, leaving us in a permanent cycle of adding more and more dog types to the list without ever really reducing the number that pose a danger?

[jillcwhomever]

Would you put St. Bernards, Golden Retrievers, Border Collies & Great Danes in the same bracket ?

When I was growing up everybody wanted German Sheps & Chow Chows banned.

I don't want any of those dogs banned, but I do want them controlled by their owners, you're going on as if it's a unfair request. I don't think it much to expect dogs are kept on a lead in a place where children are running around or on a reserve.

[rob1966]

I didn't think he was blaming the people running, but it came across that he was somehow excusing the dog as it was just following its primal instrinct.

I'm not excusing it, I was just stating why its likely attacked.

In a way, you can excuse dogs when they react like this as, at the end of the day, they are predators that act on instinct, the dog doesn't know any better, they're not rtional humans and we cannot expect them to behave as a human. This is why I agree with the lead and muzzle in public suggestions, all dogs should be muzzled and on leads. No matter how well trained a dog is, they can react, its the fact of them being a dog. Chicuahuas are a nighmare for biting people for example.

We've been here before with American Pit Bulls, the media latched onto the attacks, they were all neutered/chipped/muzzled in public/destroyed and the problem didn't go away, it just moved breeds. Now you either bring in strict laws concerning ownership,licensing, muzzling with huge punishments for breaking them or you destroy every dog bigger than a Beagle and every bull terrier.

[B0151?]

I honestly don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but let's say breeds are banned on the basis of being more naturally inclined to pose a danger - could people not just cross-breed their way around the ban, leaving us in a permanent cycle of adding more and more dog types to the list without ever really reducing the number that pose a danger?

I'm pretty sure thats what a Bully XL is to be honest. A mix of a few different more established bull dogs and bull terrier breeds

[ljycb]

So you muzzle her every time you leave the house ?

That depends on when we’re walking her. If it’s during the daytime then yes, but early in the morning or late in the evening it’s far easier to avoid people.

[jillcwhomever]

I honestly don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but let's say breeds are banned on the basis of being more naturally inclined to pose a danger - could people not just cross-breed their way around the ban, leaving us in a permanent cycle of adding more and more dog types to the list without ever really reducing the number that pose a danger?

I think it's all the inter breeding which has lead to a lot of the problems you have especially with the American Bully the dog that attacked the girl, is said to have been bred around five different species! How much research is done on doing stuff like this in the first place, is something that I'd be wondering.

[rob1966]

I honestly don't know if this is a dumb question or not, but let's say breeds are banned on the basis of being more naturally inclined to pose a danger - could people not just cross-breed their way around the ban, leaving us in a permanent cycle of adding more and more dog types to the list without ever really reducing the number that pose a danger?

Yes. All down history dogs have been crossed to create new breeds, so you could in theory take a large good natured dog and cross it with a chihuauh and get an agressive big dog.

[B0151?]

I think it's all the inter breeding which has lead to a lot of the problems you have especially with the American Bully the dog that attacked the girl, is said to have been bred around five different species! How much research is done on doing stuff like this in the first place, is something that I'd be wondering.

Well that's the big problem. The Bully XL has a massive industry of backyard breeding from questionable characters.

I think the backyard breeding aspect is the biggest problem in all this although the whole industry of dog breeding  and pedigree stuff in general is pretty sketchy imo

[rob1966]

I'm pretty sure thats what a Bully XL is to be honest. A mix of a few different more established bull dogs and bull terrier breeds

Yes, the bully XL is a designer breed of Pit Bull, Bulldog, Bull Terrier and others- the websites about them say they have a calm temperament and were designed to breed out the aggression found in Pit Bulls.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Probably the weirdest thing I found since living in London is finding all these larger dog breeds here. What purpose does it serve other than boring the living shit out of them, or driving them mad, with a lack of activity.

It's even worse in Barcelona. Tonnes of dogs here and all of them living in pokey little flats. Loads of them are big breeds as well and covered in fur. There are very few green spaces and the city is a sensory overload. It's a miserable life for a dog whatever the owner, especially in the summer, but people insist on them anyway.

[jillcwhomever]

Well that's the big problem. The Bully XL has a massive industry of backyard breeding from questionable characters.

I think the backyard breeding aspect is the biggest problem in all this although the whole industry of dog breeding  and pedigree stuff in general is pretty sketchy imo

It's why they need to clamp down on the breeders as well, you can google this breed and there are so many people selling this type of dog. I think they have to be a lot tougher on who they are allowed to sell them too.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I don't want any of those dogs banned, butI do want them controlled by their owners, you're going on as if it's a unfair request. I don't think it much to expect dogs are kept on a lead in a place where children are running around or on a reserve.

You can't have read my posts because that has been my point all along.

I know that I could take my dogs through a town centre off the leads and they'd not move from my side, I know that because they're trained and I know my dogs. The only time they get to run off is when I take them out late night/early morning and even then I make them stay by my side when we get to the field & walk around without telling them that they can go, it drives them batty but they won't go until I say those magic words and even then I tease them by calling them straight back again, I'm not doing that for shits and giggles, I do that because it needs to be done.

My youngest used to be able to walk our Mastiff when he was 5yrs old & again, he was able to call him on command and walk him with slack on the lead, so when I say that it's the owners and training, I mean it because I know that is the case.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I'm not excusing it, I was just stating why its likely attacked.

In a way, you can excuse dogs when they react like this as, at the end of the day, they are predators that act on instinct, the dog doesn't know any better, they're not rtional humans and we cannot expect them to behave as a human. This is why I agree with the lead and muzzle in public suggestions, all dogs should be muzzled and on leads. No matter how well trained a dog is, they can react, its the fact of them being a dog. Chicuahuas are a nighmare for biting people for example.

We've been here before with American Pit Bulls, the media latched onto the attacks, they were all neutered/chipped/muzzled in public/destroyed and the problem didn't go away, it just moved breeds. Now you either bring in strict laws concerning ownership,licensing, muzzling with huge punishments for breaking them or you destroy every dog bigger than a Beagle and every bull terrier.

Exactly, it's an all or none scenario, leave no room for wiggle room, plus it's be funny watching those little toy dogs running around muzzled.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

That depends on when we’re walking her. If it’s during the daytime then yes, but early in the morning or late in the evening it’s far easier to avoid people.

 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Yes. All down history dogs have been crossed to create new breeds, so you could in theory take a large good natured dog and cross it with a chihuauh and get an agressive big dog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qqQiGPf2jQ

[jillcwhomever]

You can't have read my posts because that has been my point all along.

I know that I could take my dogs through a town centre off the leads and they'd not move from my side, I know that because they're trained and I know my dogs. The only time they get to run off is when I take them out late night/early morning and even then I make them stay by my side when we get to the field & walk around without telling them that they can go, it drives them batty but they won't go until I say those magic words and even then I tease them by calling them straight back again, I'm not doing that for shits and giggles, I do that because it needs to be done.

My youngest used to be able to walk our Mastiff when he was 5yrs old & again, he was able to call him on command and walk him with slack on the lead, so when I say that it's the owners and training, I mean it because I know that is the case.

I find it hard to understand there wouldn't be the odd incident still, even in a trained dog. It suddenly sees another dog, on the other side of the road you can guarantee it wouldn't be running towards it, if it's not on a lead? I don't see how anyone can be a hundred per cent sure of things like this. I'm sure the owner of the dog that chased me, would swear he's a softy usually. Also, you have to take into account that young kids will sometimes go running to a dog, if it's off a lead how can you know they won't be attacked, especially if the dog feels threatened or cornered?

[RobinHood]

Every time this breed makes the news it reminds me of the terrible situation with Jack Lis a few years ago. That was basically the whole issue in a nutshell - dodgy backyard breeding, advertised on Facebook by some idiot, then bought by an even bigger idiot who had no idea what he was doing.

Ended up in a horrific death of a 10 year old.

I’m a dog lover myself but if the Bully XL keeps attacking/killing at this rate (70% of all dog deaths since 2021) it’s going to be difficult to see how legislation isn’t brought down upon it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I find it hard to understand there wouldn't be the odd incident still, even in a trained dog. It suddenly sees another dog, on the other side of the road you can guarantee it wouldn't be running towards it, if it's not on a lead? I don't see how anyone can be a hundred per cent sure of things like this. I'm sure the owner of the dog that chased me, would swear he's a softy usually. Also, you have to take into account that young kids will sometimes go running to a dog, if it's off a lead how can you know they won't be attacked, especially if the dog feels threatened or cornered?

One time pitch black we were all in the field and another dog came flying at us all aggressive & my dogs just stood right in front of me all flexed and ready, it came a bit too close and got it from a couple of sides, I gave the order to pack the fuck in and they went straight back to being themselves.

I didn't blame that dog (German Shep), it was the dickhead owner to blame, if his dog had been trained and socialised it wouldn't have acted how it did.

The arguments being made now about the XL are the exact same ones that were made about German Sheps, Dobermanns, Mastiffs, Chow Chows, Staffies and many other breeds previously, arguments by people who don't know better & refuse to actually listen to experts.

On this very thread we've got a poster attacking a dog charity because they're telling the truth.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Every time this breed makes the news it reminds me of the terrible situation with Jack Lis a few years ago. That was basically the whole issue in a nutshell - dodgy backyard breeding, advertised on Facebook by some idiot, then bought by an even bigger idiot who had no idea what he was doing.

Ended up in a horrific death of a 10 year old.

I’m a dog lover myself but if the Bully XL keeps attacking/killing at this rate (70% of all dog deaths since 2021) it’s going to be difficult to see how legislation isn’t brought down upon it.

If it wasn't the XL it'd be any one of the others breeds that people demanded be outlawed. But you're right about the twats who own them, they've no idea how to raise a dog and then go and get the biggest & baddest looking one that they can find.

Deal with those pricks.

[redbyrdz]

I find it hard to understand there wouldn't be the odd incident still, even in a trained dog. It suddenly sees another dog, on the other side of the road you can guarantee it wouldn't be running towards it, if it's not on a lead? I don't see how anyone can be a hundred per cent sure of things like this. I'm sure the owner of the dog that chased me, would swear he's a softy usually. Also, you have to take into account that young kids will sometimes go running to a dog, if it's off a lead how can you know they won't be attacked, especially if the dog feels threatened or cornered?

A realiy well trained dog doesn't do that. That's the thing about dogs, you can actually train them to obey, all the time (unlike cats, who you can train to do certain things, but theymight still decide otherwise. Or kids.. ). Even with dogs that aren't 100% obedient, an owner who knows their dog will know what might trigger the dog, can read its body language, and can prevent anything happening.

[rob1966]

Just watching this on the news. The little girl who was attacked said the dog was staring at her, she got scared and ran and that was when it attacked her. She said the owner just stood there doing nothing. The dog itself was found to be suffering from heat exhaustion. Owner sounds like a right c*nt

[Jiminy Cricket]

I'm not excusing it, I was just stating why its likely attacked.

In a way, you can excuse dogs when they react like this as, at the end of the day, they are predators that act on instinct, the dog doesn't know any better, they're not rtional humans and we cannot expect them to behave as a human. This is why I agree with the lead and muzzle in public suggestions, all dogs should be muzzled and on leads. No matter how well trained a dog is, they can react, its the fact of them being a dog. Chicuahuas are a nighmare for biting people for example.

We've been here before with American Pit Bulls, the media latched onto the attacks, they were all neutered/chipped/muzzled in public/destroyed and the problem didn't go away, it just moved breeds. Now you either bring in strict laws concerning ownership,licensing, muzzling with huge punishments for breaking them or you destroy every dog bigger than a Beagle and every bull terrier.

They'd be first ones to go on my list.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Agree, and proper leads that control the head, not those harness things that give a strong dog something to pull against. I've got two malamutes, the male is as big as a person. Is bred to pull heavy load, like 1 ton plus. No way a dog that strong (or even quarter of its size) can be controlled in a harness if it decides it wants after something. I can only hold them back with a traditional lead if say they lunge for a cat or squirrel. The other thing is, doesn't matter how well conditioned your dog is, it only takes someone else's yappy little bastard off the leash to cause a situation.

A harness gives you more control & is better for the animal, your dog would hardly notice a choke chain if it really wanted to go.

[damomad]

Every time this breed makes the news it reminds me of the terrible situation with Jack Lis a few years ago. That was basically the whole issue in a nutshell - dodgy backyard breeding, advertised on Facebook by some idiot, then bought by an even bigger idiot who had no idea what he was doing.

Ended up in a horrific death of a 10 year old.

I’m a dog lover myself but if the Bully XL keeps attacking/killing at this rate (70% of all dog deaths since 2021) it’s going to be difficult to see how legislation isn’t brought down upon it.

I would just round them all up and cull them. Might sound heartless but they are killing machines. It happens with chickens and cows any time there is a threat of human ingestion of some lethal disease. I don't see how doing it with dogs wouldn't be on the same spectrum.

[Red-Soldier]

All domestic dogs are from a single species Canis familiaris. All of the body shapes and temeraments are the result of human breeding to create specific "breeds." The "breeds" are selected for the ability to carry out certain tasks and for aesthetic reasons.

There is no reason for any particular breed to exist. These dogs and other breeds like them were bred to bring down bulls. That's why they're called bulldogs for fucks sake. There are bulldog breeds that have had the attack temperament bred out over time but these are killing machines with an attack temperament. They serve no purpose except for illegal dogfighting and to make utter c*nts feel hard.

Personally, I don't want to walk down the street having to guess whether the 70 kilos of killing machine is being walked by a good owner or a bad owner.

I agree.

Being someone that has worked a lot on nature reserves and the wider countryside, I'd clampdown hard on dog walkers and ownership.  It's not a black and white situation, but they need banning from certain areas altogether and heavy regulation in others.

Dog ownership is out of control and something needs doing about it.  The numbers have gone crazy since lockdown.  I know wardens that have to wear body cameras now, due to abusive owners.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I agree.

Being someone that has worked a lot on nature reserves and the wider countryside, I'd clampdown hard on dog walkers and ownership.  It's not a black and white situation, but they need banning from certain areas altogether and heavy regulation in others.

Dog ownership is out of control and something needs doing about it.  The numbers have gone crazy since lockdown.  I know wardens that have to wear body cameras now, due to abusive owners.

Had the tech been around they would've worn them for the same reason decades ago.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I would just round them all up and cull them. Might sound heartless but they are killing machines. It happens with chickens and cows any time there is a threat of human ingestion of some lethal disease. I don't see how doing it with dogs wouldn't be on the same spectrum.

Which breeds pass your test & where do you stop ?

You would've made the same argument about all the others over the years & you'd have been wrong then as well.

[Red-Soldier]

Had the tech been around they would've worn them for the same reason decades ago.

No.  These people have years of experience on the ground, and they say it has got progressively worse.

They now have no choice, but to use the body cams.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

No.  These people have years of experience on the ground, and they say it has got progressively worse.

Well that told me, I now know that they would've thumbed their noses at the tech.

[GoldenGloves25]

Owner sounds like a right c*nt

I'd say 98% of XL bully owners are.

[damomad]

Which breeds pass your test & where do you stop ?

You would've made the same argument about all the others over the years & you'd have been wrong then as well.

I would look at it top down, if the dog is causing a high percentage of deaths and attacks, then ban it or cull it. I'm not sure what you are getting at about being wrong before, the death statistics don't lie.

Then also come at it from the bottom up, heavier fines and sentencing for illegal dog breeders. Have every dog purchase required to be on a register with a licence. Have more data on where the trouble breeders are. Have every owner required to take a course on how to bring the pet up properly.

I personally love dogs but local parks are becoming unmanageable, and I'm seeing more and more bad behaviours along with horror stories. On the topic of breeders, a headcase family member of mine only last month was able to buy a puppy on Gumtree, the owner said it was a few months old. After a couple of days it started getting violently ill. It got brought to the vet and turned out it was less than 10 weeks old and hadn't weaned off it's mother yet. I'm not sure what illness it had but the poor thing had to be put down. It's a shame more of these attacks don't happen on the illegal breeders.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So you won't be happy until you have seen my dogs murdered & on & on & on.

[jillcwhomever]

I would look at it top down, if the dog is causing a high percentage of deaths and attacks, then ban it or cull it. I'm not sure what you are getting at about being wrong before, the death statistics don't lie.

Then also come at it from the bottom up, heavier fines and sentencing for illegal dog breeders. Have every dog purchase required to be on a register with a licence. Have more data on where the trouble breeders are. Have every owner required to take a course on how to bring the pet up properly.

I personally love dogs but local parks are becoming unmanageable, and I'm seeing more and more bad behaviours along with horror stories. On the topic of breeders, a headcase family member of mine only last month was able to buy a puppy on Gumtree, the owner said it was a few months old. After a couple of days it started getting violently ill. It got brought to the vet and turned out it was less than 10 weeks old and hadn't weaned off it's mother yet. I'm not sure what illness it had but the poor thing had to be put down. It's a shame more of these attacks don't happen on the illegal breeders.

Panorama did a report on criminals who are now breeding these dogs and another thing they do is cut back the ears, which is just brutal. The dogs I saw had feet which where the wrong way around, it was totally gruesome, when you saw how much the dogs were suffering.

[damomad]

So you won't be happy until you have seen my dogs murdered & on & on & on.

Depends, are your dogs named after any of our players?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Depends, are your dogs named after any of our players?

Funny but can you answer the question.

[west_london_red]

I remember back in the day (I must have been about 10 years old) we were at my cousins who had a German Shepherd, a very nice placid dog generally, they’d had the dog for about 8 years by this time. The reason they had the dog was because my dad actually bought it for them originally, they were going to India and my dad was going to mind the shop for about a month and decided he was going to buy a dog to keep him company as he was staying there by himself, when they came back from India they decided to keep the dog and then we bought another one for us. Anyways, I’m at cousins, and another one of my cousins is there too (she lived near by so was there a lot and dog would have met her hundreds of times), she would have been about 6-7 years old at the time and she’s messing around with the cousin whose dog it is (he would have been about 18 and she very lightly hits him in a very playful manner and that’s it, the dogs gone for her, luckily she was wearing quite loose leggings so when it went for her it grabbed hold of them and missed her actual leg.

My step gran got bitten on the ankle by a dog, my brother once walked out of a corner shop (it was actually the 7 year old cousins dads shop) and literally out of no where someone’s dog jumped up to bite him, again luckily it grabbed hold of the jacket rathe then his actual arm, my best mate got bitten by a dog when one of his mates opened the door to him and the dog ran up and bit him on the thigh, and my brother in law got bitten on the arse by one of his cousins dogs. Those are just the people that I know that have been attacked by dogs, none of them bad enough that the police got involved or anything like that because in most cases the person attacked knew the owner but it does also make you think how many attacks like that go unreported and whether it’s a bigger issue then people think.

[Red-Soldier]

Well that told me, I now know that they would've thumbed their noses at the tech.

Don't know what you are saying here.

The people I know have years of experience in engaging with the public on nature reserves and other open areas.  They have now resulted in wearing body cams, due to the abuse they receive from a growing number of dog owners.  Not sure how difficult that is to understand.

These problems have got progressively worse.  How much experience do you have with working with the public in these situation.  I've been chased by dogs and barked at, when working in these places too.  I remember one of the owners saying my hat made the dog bark.  That's an ongoing theme with these people, it's never them or their dogs fault.