Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Yes, Londoners. I know. I'm one of them. If you've managed to miss Andy's frequent tirades against Southerners, Londoners and atheists* I envy you.

* Generally follows the pattern: Prof. Richard Dawkins tweets something -> Andy steams in, either getting the wrong end of the stick or not grasping any wood at all -> Andy mentions a convenient discussion he's had with a rogue atheist -> Andy gets schooled for pages and pages -> It dies down -> Until the next time.

You must have been upset that it wasn't Londoners.

And Dawkins is a fucking blert.

[JohnnoWhite]

Just listened and uncontrollably seethed to yesterday's Andrew Marr interview with that thing Teresa May. 

They MUST be binned - or we all of us descend into a savagery the like of which very few Brits alive today will ever have witnessed. Please don't ever say that you as a voter weren't warned or you didn't think it would be like this when you voted for "strong and stable" government.

What a Tory farce!! Strong is easy to spout about when you constantly punish the impoverished and defenceless weak.
There was a time even under the Tories when such policies would have been branded tyrannical and barbaric but with this current brand of Tory "things" running the country, anything that grinds our people further down the social ladder is hailed as strong and stable leadership.
What's even worse is when a government KNOWS that what it is prepared to inflict on the people is the absolute antithesis of what common decency demands it OUGHT to be doing and would be doing had they ANY scrap of moral integrity in their genes.

Real strength of leadership in any so-called civilised society is when a government refuses to compromise on delivering basic humanity to the most vulnerable of its people. I totally reject this constant Tory abuse of the language; I reject their sickening ideology and I deplore this wilful assault on our people. They are smirking gutter scum dressed up in expensive suits that would clothe and feed a desperately impoverished family for a month.

These Tories are criminally responsible for the decline of justice and hope in this dis-United Kingdom. Were there ANY real and meaningful justice, they would ALL of them sitting on their upholstered arses in the Commons be charged with the worst of crimes against OUR nation, consigned to jail and banned from ever holding any political office again.

[Libertine]

These Tories are criminally responsible for the decline of justice and hope in this dis-United Kingdom. Were there ANY real and meaningful justice, they would ALL of them sitting on their upholstered arses in the Commons be charged with the worst of crimes against OUR nation, consigned to jail and banned from ever holding any political office again.

Yes. Let's lock up all of our political opponents. That always leads to better societies.

[JohnnoWhite]

Yes. Let's lock up all of our political opponents. That always leads to better societies.

So you believe their policies deliberately conceived and calculatingly enforced have brought good to our people do you? You don't believe at all that such policies are a punishment visited on those least able to withstand and even more, survive them whilst meanwhile, multi-millionaires rub their hands together at their tax reduction gifts from their Tory friends in Westminster are justifiable?  In my book if these are NOT crimes against our people, WTF kind of a description would you ascribe to them ? So stop playing pseudo smart-arse and debate the extremes they have inflicted on society and tell us why you think these have been for the "good of the nation" eh?

[Johnnyboy1973]

In my book if these are NOT crimes against our people, WTF kind of a description would you ascribe to them?

By the letter of the law they are not crimes so a better descriptions would be 'harms'.

[SP]

So you believe their policies deliberately conceived and calculatingly enforced have brought good to our people do you? You don't believe at all that such policies are a punishment visited on those least able to withstand and even more, survive them whilst meanwhile, multi-millionaires rub their hands together at their tax reduction gifts from their Tory friends in Westminster is justifiable?  In my book if these are NOT crimes WTF kind of a description would you ascribe to them ? So stop playing pseudo smart-arse and debate the extremes they have inflicted on society and tell us why you think these have been for the "good of the nation" eh?

They have got away with it because of the abject failure of the opposition. The Tories have been pretty well unchallenged, and no credible alternative has been sold to the electorate. The people overwhelmingly think that the Tories are a lesser risk than Labour. That is absolutely damning.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

So you believe their policies deliberately conceived and calculatingly enforced have brought good to our people do you? You don't believe at all that such policies are a punishment visited on those least able to withstand and even more, survive them whilst meanwhile, multi-millionaires rub their hands together at their tax reduction gifts from their Tory friends in Westminster are justifiable?  In my book if these are NOT crimes against our people, WTF kind of a description would you ascribe to them ? So stop playing pseudo smart-arse and debate the extremes they have inflicted on society and tell us why you think these have been for the "good of the nation" eh?

The Tories are trying to turn us into a banana republic with no laws or decency.

Let's not let them.

[Millie]

If you are going to advocate locking up politicians because of their policies then that is a slippery slope and is not democracy.  It will also put people off standing for parliament.

I hate the Tories, I find them abhorrent, but they were voted in under our democracy. 

[Craig S]

And this is why the leader's image mattters..

There is a very strong correlation between net party leader rating and election results..

The current ones are in yellow.  We are heading for an era defining battering...

Wow, R2 at 0.97, pretty much a perfect correlation.
Even though we dont have a presedential democracy, it's hard to argue that most people don't vote that way.

[carling]

Anyone know who the Labour candidate is for Eddisbury?  All my googling efforts are finding is info about the Tory and Lib Dem candidates 

[Banquo's Ghost]

This rightly belongs in a Labour Party thread, I believe.

1st May 1997.

Labour seats won 418.

Tories 165.

[So… Howard Philips]

This rightly belongs in a Labour Party thread, I believe.

1st May 1997.

Labour seats won 418.

Tories 165.

I thought for a moment you were going to mention Blair led party putting a Tory government in the bin.

But you didn't so that's OK.

[TepidT2O]

The election results on May 4th will undoubtedly be relatively positive compared to the general election polling.

Look at the comparisons for 1983 and 1987. Ok in local elections but dire in general elections.

I know it frustrates people on here that personality politics plays such a part in our electoral system, but it's a fact that it does.  Maybe someday something radical will change this, but the pols show this hasn't happened.


The good news though.... 

That people will still vote labour in local elections shows the party isn't dead.  There's still a huge groundswell of support if the party communicates with its voters rather than just its members.

[JackWard33]

This rightly belongs in a Labour Party thread, I believe.

1st May 1997.

Labour seats won 418.

Tories 165.

Honestly in terms of external events (not personal or family) - one of the happiest days of my life.
I hadn't slept at all and was still pretty pissed turning up to work. And most people were in the same boat. There really was a feeling that the country had a positive exciting future. It was cool.

[TepidT2O]

First time I voted in a general election. 

What a feeling it was.

[Libertine]

Mary Riddell in the New Statesman, 20 years ago today.

[Libertine]

So you believe their policies deliberately conceived and calculatingly enforced have brought good to our people do you? You don't believe at all that such policies are a punishment visited on those least able to withstand and even more, survive them whilst meanwhile, multi-millionaires rub their hands together at their tax reduction gifts from their Tory friends in Westminster are justifiable?  In my book if these are NOT crimes against our people, WTF kind of a description would you ascribe to them ? So stop playing pseudo smart-arse and debate the extremes they have inflicted on society and tell us why you think these have been for the "good of the nation" eh?

Well, I don't think they have been for the good of the nation as I don't support the Tories and don't vote for them. And that's why I've spent a good proportion of this bank holiday weekend out campaigning to get some of them out of office.

I just happen to have the old fashioned notion that in a democracy you defeat your opponents in the ballot box, not in the courts or on the streets.

Such extremist hyperbole does more harm than good.

[Red Beret]

Liverpool could end up being for Labour what the south west was for the Liberals in the 70s and 80s.  No matter what happens, we'll be stuck with same old Labour in Liverpool, with the same incompetence and antics we've seen for years.

[Trev20]

A spokesperson said it wouldn't be in their manifesto for this year's GE, then a shadow Brexit minister said the party would consider a 2nd ref if there was public call for it AND there was reform within the EU (what that was, he didn't specify) and now you have yesterday's article, co-written by Clive Lewis, who I've read is under threat of losing his seat in pro-Remain Norwich which I'm sure has nothing to do with the production of this article.

So the usual clarity from Labour on Brexit.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/85395/labour-brexit-spokesman-holds-out-hope-second

Clive Lewis isn't very impressive - no idea why he is apparently held in high esteem within the PLP.

[classycarra]

Clive Lewis isn't very impressive - no idea why he is apparently held in high esteem within the PLP.

If he had any nous he could have supported Owen Smith in the selection when he suggested this over six months ago.

[classycarra]

Mary Riddell in the New Statesman, 20 years ago today.

Antediluvian - great word. Nicely sums him up, out of date even in '97. Cheers for sharing.

I know it frustrates people on here that personality politics plays such a part in our electoral system, but it's a fact that it does.  Maybe someday something radical will change this, but the pols show this hasn't happened.

The good news though.... 

That people will still vote labour in local elections shows the party isn't dead.  There's still a huge groundswell of support if the party communicates with its voters rather than just its members.

Were it not for personality politics, and people (including the membership) learning the wrong lessons from the right mistakes to improve upon, Corbyn would never have been close to the leadership.

Those figures just go to show how harmful poor Labour leaders are. It's easy for Labour supporters to vote Labour locally, despite major  reservations with the leader in Westminster, but when it comes to general elections, and you have major worires about the damage they could do as Prime Minister it's no wonder there's a disparity between the votes.

[Sangria]

Clive Lewis isn't very impressive - no idea why he is apparently held in high esteem within the PLP.

He has a military background.

[zero zero]

Well, I don't think they have been for the good of the nation as I don't support the Tories and don't vote for them. And that's why I've spent a good proportion of this bank holiday weekend out campaigning to get some of them out of office.

I just happen to have the old fashioned notion that in a democracy you defeat your opponents in the ballot box, not in the courts or on the streets.

Such extremist hyperbole does more harm than good.

Perfect rejoinder.

[hide5seek]

Clive Lewis isn't very impressive - no idea why he is apparently held in high esteem within the PLP.

He isn't?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJem92ElK0

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Fuck it. I'll vote Labour. Look at the alternatives.

A weird looking Maybot weirdo or fucking the Lib Dems that took it up the hoop for Maybots pals.

[Trev20]

He isn't?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJem92ElK0

I heard recently that he is a 'rising star within the Party' 

Although to be fair it doesn't take much to be considered a star amoung this lot today.

[JohnnoWhite]

Well, I don't think they have been for the good of the nation as I don't support the Tories and don't vote for them. And that's why I've spent a good proportion of this bank holiday weekend out campaigning to get some of them out of office.

I just happen to have the old fashioned notion that in a democracy you defeat your opponents in the ballot box, not in the courts or on the streets.

Such extremist hyperbole does more harm than good.

Extremist hyperbole?? Isn't that what these Tory ministers offer every time they back-track/re-write their manifesto pledges? They don't blink an eye in solemnly delivering what is in their world a perfectly rational "solution" to the irksome question of paying benefit support for children born of a rape. How is THAT kind of legislation which demands any mother in this situation to name and declare her child was born as a consequence of a rape IF she wishes to continue to receive support in any way representative of a) a civilised society in this the 21st century or b) as they would have us all believe caring and compassionate Conservatism? It is an affront to common decency if not teetering on the threshold of state blackmail. 
You and others can dress it up any way you like - unsympathetic Tory policy, a political misjudgement, debate and oppose etc etc . For me, it is a deliberate assault on decency at best, and at worst is a criminal offence under Section 21 of Theft Act 1968 which criminalises blackmail. Here the "theft" is that the anonymity of the victim will be revealed if you dare to claim your state benefit. An outrage!

Let me amend that last exclamation for you all - It's much more than just an outrage - it's an absolute nailed-on fucking outrage!!

[Zeb]

He isn't?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJem92ElK0

I really like him, but as he says in that video (and still holds true 6 months later) he still needs time as an MP let alone being given a shadow portfolio. If Labour can get him and the likes of Nandy and Reeves pulling in the same direction then there's a lot of hope for the future of the party. It will mean compromises from the hard left on a number of things if they're serious about governing and bringing in other progressives and centrists to support that government. But it can be done. That's the hopeful thing heading into this clusterfucked election.

[Robinred]

I really like him, but as he says in that video (and still holds true 6 months later) he still needs time as an MP let alone being given a shadow portfolio. If Labour can get him and the likes of Nandy and Reeves pulling in the same direction then there's a lot of hope for the future of the party. It will mean compromises from the hard left on a number of things if they're serious about governing and bringing in other progressives and centrists to support that government. But it can be done. That's the hopeful thing heading into this clusterfucked election.

I agree. I like him too. There's actually a good deal of talent in the PLP. And a number of MPs who'd make a better leader than Corbyn.

[Libertine]

Would you look at this......

https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/858903799976546304

 

[JackWard33]

Wow, R2 at 0.97, pretty much a perfect correlation.
Even though we dont have a presedential democracy, it's hard to argue that most people don't vote that way.

Amazing isn't it ? The analysts that called the 2015 Tory win were looking at this not the opinion polls

[Sangria]

Would you look at this......

https://twitter.com/labour_history/status/858903799976546304

 

We voted for an end to Thatcherism and got even more of it.

This is the kind of thinking that's got us into this current situation. Out of the EU and the Tories about to win a landslide.

[So… Howard Philips]

This is the kind of thinking that's got us into this current situation. Out of the EU and the Tories about to win a landslide.

No doubt someone with a safe job, policy wonk or similar, and has never had personal experience of real Thatcherism. Politics is real life not a hobby but some of his type don't live in the real world.

[Cliff Bastin]

John McDonnell speaks at an event in Trafalgar square with a Joseph Stalin banner in attendance. You have to laugh really. Should have brought a Hitler one along too.

[So… Howard Philips]

John McDonnell speaks at an event in Trafalgar square with a Joseph Stalin banner in attendance. You have to laugh really. Should have brought a Hitler one along too.

But Uncle Joe smoked a pipe so he was OK.

[Red Beret]

I really like him, but as he says in that video (and still holds true 6 months later) he still needs time as an MP let alone being given a shadow portfolio. If Labour can get him and the likes of Nandy and Reeves pulling in the same direction then there's a lot of hope for the future of the party. It will mean compromises from the hard left on a number of things if they're serious about governing and bringing in other progressives and centrists to support that government. But it can be done. That's the hopeful thing heading into this clusterfucked election.

Well, THERE'S your problem.

[Zeb]

Well, THERE'S your problem.

There were a few MPs I respect who cited that realising Corbyn had no intention of taking advice outside his closed circle was the breaking point. Most nowhere close to being 'Blairite' either. Lewis may have more nouse about him if that interview wasn't just platitudes about a mythical progressive alliance and, instead, he sees the value of having a pragmatic broad tent which could work with the Liberals, the Greens, the SNP and PC.

[TravisBickle]

Just listened and uncontrollably seethed to yesterday's Andrew Marr interview with that thing Teresa May. 

They MUST be binned - or we all of us descend into a savagery the like of which very few Brits alive today will ever have witnessed. Please don't ever say that you as a voter weren't warned or you didn't think it would be like this when you voted for "strong and stable" government.

What a Tory farce!! Strong is easy to spout about when you constantly punish the impoverished and defenceless weak.
There was a time even under the Tories when such policies would have been branded tyrannical and barbaric but with this current brand of Tory "things" running the country, anything that grinds our people further down the social ladder is hailed as strong and stable leadership.
What's even worse is when a government KNOWS that what it is prepared to inflict on the people is the absolute antithesis of what common decency demands it OUGHT to be doing and would be doing had they ANY scrap of moral integrity in their genes.

Real strength of leadership in any so-called civilised society is when a government refuses to compromise on delivering basic humanity to the most vulnerable of its people. I totally reject this constant Tory abuse of the language; I reject their sickening ideology and I deplore this wilful assault on our people. They are smirking gutter scum dressed up in expensive suits that would clothe and feed a desperately impoverished family for a month.

These Tories are criminally responsible for the decline of justice and hope in this dis-United Kingdom. Were there ANY real and meaningful justice, they would ALL of them sitting on their upholstered arses in the Commons be charged with the worst of crimes against OUR nation, consigned to jail and banned from ever holding any political office again.

 The sort of savagery the USSR was responsible for, Jonno? Yer man Johnny Mac was giving a speech under a hammer and sickle flag today. Or what about the sort of savagery the Baathists were and continue to be responsible for? That flag was draped above his head as well. We know what your (entirely) justified reaction would be if Phillip Hammond was speaking at a rally in front of a Nazi flag. What's the difference?

 Honestly, you talk about locking the Tories up whilst John McDonnell is pulling those stunts and wonder why people call us the "loony left."

[Elmo!]

This is probably going to piss all of you off on both sides of the debate but hopefully will get a laugh or two....

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5kcaga_jeremy-bernard-corbyn-what-was-done_fun

Enjoy! 

[The Gulleysucker]

It started off ok, then sloped off quite a bit, but this little construct below was quite clever if only because of the obvious homage to the White House death of Bin Laden photo moment....

Not sure what the white horse prancing to the left amid the wind farm in the final scene is about though.