Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[TepidT2O]

Corbyn has one interview with Marr and the next headline to come through on my news feed is 'Corbyn would not authorise the killing of ISIS leader'.

To be fair to say he said it would be helpful that the ISIS leader wasnt around but its a shite way to answer the question. Just emphasise that you would authorise a strike on the ISIS leader, dont get on your soap box over the pros and cons of drone strikes.

The hardline of one of the papers I saw in the shop this morning was similar. Corbyn soft on terrorists, that sort of thing.

Plays on people's fears effectively.

Anyway, he was going on about his Brexit position and it seems to be exactly the same as May's

[classycarra]

Corbyn has one interview with Marr and the next headline to come through on my news feed is 'Corbyn would not authorise the killing of ISIS leader'.

To be fair to say he said it would be helpful that the ISIS leader wasnt around but its a shite way to answer the question. Just emphasise that you would authorise a strike on the ISIS leader, dont get on your soap box over the pros and cons of drone strikes.

I think you overestimate his analytical skills.

Newstatesman on his Marr interview:

Corbyn: "I'm no supporter or defender of Isis in any way." Not a great clarification to have to make

I hope the weekday off in lieu he's earned is worth it for this disasterous media appearance he's deigned to provide

[alonsoisared]

Hahaha never thought id see such pissing and moaning over 4 extra bank holidays. "Oh but its shit months to have a day off, the weather will be shit." Its the UK for christ sake, the weathers always shit. People work enough as it is, this is a nice little bonus for those hard working people, the vast majority of which couldnt give a fuck what time of year it is, its just a day off work. What a thing to get worked up about.

Dont worry folks the way the polls are looking and with you lot set to sulk off to the lib dems youll get your wish of seeing labour decimated. High five!

[SP]

If you are self employed or paid by the hour it does nothing for you. Many people have contracts that would mean they get no extra holiday, just lose the ability to choose when to take them. It will cost businesses about 2% of their annual labour. That will impact on turnover.  Decreases in turnover have a larger impact on profit, as most costs are relatively fixed. Less profit, less tax revenue, less money available for wage negotiations. Ultimately, the workers will pay for this.

This is a popularise policy for an industrial workforce that barely exists any more. It is more evidence that Corbyn's view of the workplace was formed in the 60s and 70s and has not moved since. The world of work has changed since then, not that he knows, it is not as if he has ever had a job.

[classycarra]

Hahaha never thought id see such pissing and moaning over 4 extra bank holidays. "Oh but its shit months to have a day off, the weather will be shit." Its the UK for christ sake, the weathers always shit. People work enough as it is, this is a nice little bonus for those hard working people, the vast majority of which couldnt give a fuck what time of year it is, its just a day off work. What a thing to get worked up about.

Dont worry folks the way the polls are looking and with you lot set to sulk off to the lib dems youll get your wish of seeing labour decimated. High five!

Looks like you've given it even less thought than the Leader's office, and to top it off have added in some ire at those who have - just because we prefer our party to come up with good ideas.

Only one person mentioned in this conversation wants Labour decimated, and that's Corbyn

[alonsoisared]

Well great then lets fuck bank holidays off completely so we dont upset self employed people.

Im living in Spain currently, 2 months ago they announced an extra bank holiday for fathers day with about a months notice as Madrid was one bank holiday short for the year. I didnt hear anyone moan about an extra day off and as i sat on the train back from seville, which with the extra day it was worth a cheap and cheerful little trip to, i can assure you there were no tears from fellow passengers about any potential little knock on effects on the economy or if a few self employed people might be upset. Work life balance is a major issue in the UK which i can see even more in my few months here so far, i just cannot see the point in complaining about 4 more days off.

We could be talking about the torys dismantling the NHS and patients dying in corridors waiting for a bed, and how Labour can turn that around. But no lets complain about a few days off work.

[Zeb]

We could be talking about the torys dismantling the NHS and patients dying in corridors waiting for a bed, and how Labour can turn that around. But no lets complain about a few days off work.

Make your mind up mate. Either it's a super idea which Labour should be opening up its General Election campaign with, or it's not. Corbyn's brains trust have decided it's what they want to push this weekend.

[CornerFlag]

The BBC's summary of that interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39683989

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said he wants a "different" kind of country and would end "business as usual" in domestic and foreign policies.

He said he would not launch a "first strike" nuclear attack and suggested the party's policy on the UK's Trident nuclear deterrent was not settled.

He told Andrew Marr he was "fed up" with inequality and under-investment.

He said he also said he would like to scrap grammar schools and would phase out private contracts in the NHS.

Asked whether Labour would commit to renewing the current nuclear weapons system - which has been its policy for decades but which he opposes - he said the party's manifesto had not yet been agreed.

While he supported Nato and wanted to boost the UK's armed forces, he said he would be seeking a better relationship with Russia and opposed any further air strikes in Syria and Iraq.

And on whether he would approve a potential drone strike to kill the leader of the so-called Islamic State group, he said it would "be helpful if he was not around" but he would first want to see the intelligence available and understand what a move would achieve in terms of ending the conflict in Syria.

In a wide-ranging interview, he said he wanted to use the power of the government to improve housing and education.

He also acknowledged that the free movement of European citizens into the UK would end after Brexit as it was an "instrinsic" feature of EU membership.

Asked about whether he would insist on ending free movement if he was PM, Mr Corbyn said he would "insist on trade access and see what follows from that".

But he also rejected claims that his stance on Brexit was indistinguishable from Theresa May's, saying he was seeking an "intelligent" relationship based on tariff-free access to the single market.

Asked whether he believed he could win the snap 8 June poll, he replied "watch this space".

Guessing the whole thing will be up later on their site.

[classycarra]

Well great then lets fuck bank holidays off completely so we dont upset self employed people.

Im living in Spain currently, 2 months ago they announced an extra bank holiday for fathers day with about a months notice as Madrid was one bank holiday short for the year. I didnt hear anyone moan about an extra day off and as i sat on the train back from seville, which with the extra day it was worth a cheap and cheerful little trip to, i can assure you there were no tears from fellow passengers about any potential little knock on effects on the economy or if a few self employed people might be upset. Work life balance is a major issue in the UK which i can see even more in my few months here so far, i just cannot see the point in complaining about 4 more days off.

We could be talking about the torys dismantling the NHS and patients dying in corridors waiting for a bed, and how Labour can turn that around. But no lets complain about a few days off work.

Sorry, but you're losing track of what you criticised us for.

Suggesting any of us want all bank holidays fucked off isn't exactly a mature response, is it? It's just lashing out exaggeration instead of making an argument.

You're working on the assumption that it is four extra days of paid holiday for everyone, which is not necessarily the case at all, it's simply making those four days public holidays. If it was four guaranteed extra statutory minimum holiday days, they would have included that in their brief summary (you'd expect, despite their incompetence).

As for the lack of complaints on your train anecdote, what is your point? Is that representative of all of Spain? Did you canvass the opinions of self employed/freelance residents?

Go ahead and talk about how Labour can improve the NHS - noone is stopping you. It would be good to hear some proposals from Labour about that, so we have something to discsuss. The first Sunday media of an election campaign and the Leader's office want the press to focus on this back of a napkin 'policy', that's not my fault. Likewise, we can continue to talk about this holiday proposal despite you not wanting us to.

To me the proposla just looks like a platitude they hoped everyone would lap up as a good news suggestion, without giving much thought

[alonsoisared]

Make your mind up mate. Either it's a super idea which Labour should be opening up its General Election campaign with, or it's not. Corbyn's brains trust have decided it's what they want to push this weekend.

what are you on about? I think its a good idea, did i not make that clear? not a massive game changer but something you dont complain about unless you have an agenda to complain about absolutely everything corbyn says.

[Zeb]

what are you on about? I think its a good idea, did i not make that clear? not a massive game changer but something you dont complain about unless you have an agenda to complain about absolutely everything corbyn says.

You're whinging that people are critiquing the Bank Holiday idea by saying we're not talking about the NHS. It's like you're living in Spain totally unaware that this is what Corbyn and his team are pushing as Labour's big idea for the start of the General Election.

[cloggypop]

Make your mind up mate. Either it's a super idea which Labour should be opening up its General Election campaign with, or it's not. Corbyn's brains trust have decided it's what they want to push this weekend.

It's St George's Day.

[Zeb]

It's St George's Day.

I'm not sure St.George gets to vote.

[cloggypop]

I'm not sure St.George gets to vote.

People who want a patriotic piss up do.

[TepidT2O]

Make your mind up mate. Either it's a super idea which Labour should be opening up its General Election campaign with, or it's not. Corbyn's brains trust have decided it's what they want to push this weekend.

It's meh.

It's not a policy that's going to sway anyone really, but it would be nice to have

[zero zero]

And on whether he would approve a potential drone strike to kill the leader of the so-called Islamic State group, he said it would "be helpful if he was not around" but he would first want to see the intelligence available and understand what a move would achieve in terms of ending the conflict in Syria.

Jeremy Corbyn: Hard as nails but soft on terrorism. That's not media spin, it's plain to see in his response. Why can't he just say "Yes" to this simple question. Marr is not trying to trip him up. This is a gimme of a question. Is it all his ideological baggage? It's this sort of thing that has Labour voters thinking May would make a better PM. Corbyn doesn't even seem to be aware that as PM it might be part of his job to make sure "he was not around".

[Zeb]

People who want a patriotic piss up do.

Patriotic Piss-Ups For All (Which Aren't Called St.Patrick's Day). We've already spent longer thinking about this policy than Jeremy's team have.

[Zeb]

It's meh.

It's not a policy that's going to sway anyone really, but it would be nice to have

I don't mind the policy. I think it's meaningless symbolism more than anything, but whatever. Just can't criticise people for discussing it over what many would consider bigger issues when the main message to come out of Labour having the headlines today is that Corbyn can't stop equivocating and "let's have more bank holidays". Good opportunity to have a strong and coherent message come through today and it's frittered away once more. The whole campaign is going to be like this. The past 18 months has been like this. But I still get irritated by it. Labour should be talking foodbanks and poverty, homelessness and health, etc etc etc. Not patriotic piss-ups and Corbyn tying himself up in knots over terrorism again.

[oldfordie]

Jeremy Corbyn: Hard as nails but soft on terrorism. That's not media spin, it's plain to see in his response. Why can't he just say "Yes" to this simple question. Marr is not trying to trip him up. This is a gimme of a question. Is it all his ideological baggage? It's this sort of thing that has Labour voters thinking May would make a better PM. Corbyn doesn't even seem to be aware that as PM it might be part of his job to make sure "he was not around".

Whats the point of killing an ISIS leader. is it possible to give a more absurd reply. he makes no effort to deflect awkward questions. the answer is I would question the legality of the strike, do I want to drag the UK into a another bloody conflict. next questions will be about Trident and sending UK troops to defend this country. principles can be very expensive and if your willing to pay the price for sticking to your principles then you deserve respect. I wont give any respect for someone who is so pig headed he has to answer every question as if he's been given a truth drug, he must know his views will put off off millions of voters. if he thinks they will win votes then why does he get angry when questioned on defense.

[Sangria]

People who want a patriotic piss up do.

People who want a patriotic piss up do so in June. That's when the international football tournaments take place. Of course, that assumes England qualifies for those tournaments.

[cloggypop]

People who want a patriotic piss up do so in June. That's when the international football tournaments take place. Of course, that assumes England qualifies for those tournaments.

It's St George's Day. They would love St George's Day off.

[Sangria]

It's St George's Day. They would love St George's Day off.

If my experience is any guide, they'd love an extra day of paid leave, but they'd like to choose when it is. August is the most popular period for leave, due to the weather, resulting in extra competition for that period. I prefer to have consecutive days off, so I pick less popular periods of the year.

[cloggypop]

If my experience is any guide, they'd love an extra day of paid leave, but they'd like to choose when it is. August is the most popular period for leave, due to the weather, resulting in extra competition for that period. I prefer to have consecutive days off, so I pick less popular periods of the year.

I would assume Labour mean extra additional days off.

The particularly English one is around the same time as Koningsdag in the Netherlands. It's immensely popular. People generally love a day off.

[zero zero]

I wont give any respect for someone who is so pig headed he has to answer every question as if he's been given a truth drug, he must know his views will put off off millions of voters.

Ha! Corbyn does not recognise that what he says will be used as headlines. And for a man who's been married three times, Corbyn seems oblivious to the idea that his answers may be used in evidence months or years down the line.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I would assume Labour mean extra additional days off.

maybe he could have just said that?

[cloggypop]

maybe he could have just said that?

"After seven years of painful austerity, our workers deserve a break – and under a Labour government, they will have the opportunity of four more days off a year."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-bank-holidays-general-election-2017-a7697296.html

[oldfordie]

"After seven years of painful austerity, our workers deserve a break – and under a Labour government, they will have the opportunity of four more days off a year."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-bank-holidays-general-election-2017-a7697296.html

Frottage wants June 23th made into a national holiday as well. might as well add that one to the list as well.

[cloggypop]

Frottage wants June 23th made into a national holiday as well. might as well add that one to the list as well.

He can do one with his independence day shite but a national holiday for Alan Turing's birthday I could get behind. Days off are boss.

[oldfordie]

He can do one with his independence day shite but a national holiday for Alan Turing's birthday I could get behind. Days off are boss.

I don't think you will get any arguments from Corbyn on that one.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

"After seven years of painful austerity, our workers deserve a break – and under a Labour government, they will have the opportunity of four more days off a year."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-bank-holidays-general-election-2017-a7697296.html

so once he gets rid of austerity is there any need for these extra holidays?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I don't think you will get any arguments from Corbyn on that one.

surprised he hasn't tried to push a 4 day working week but working more hours during time..g 4 10 hour days rather than 5 8 hour days, or at least give employees that option. Now that would help a decent number of people.

[oldfordie]

surprised he hasn't tried to push a 4 day working week but working more hours during time..g 4 10 hour days rather than 5 8 hour days, or at least give employees that option. Now that would help a decent number of people.

Companys have that option now if they want, I worked similar 2 shift pattern for years,liked it as well. problem is some companys work 3 shifts 24 hrs a day so it would create big problems for them.
I think Labour have to leave out the words 4 day week, it will backfire big time.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Companys have that option now if they want, I worked similar 2 shift pattern for years,liked it as well. problem is some companys work 3 shifts 24 hrs a day so it would create big problems for them.
I think Labour have to leave out the words 4 day week, it will backfire big time.

staff don't though - thinking more for people who can work from home/offices open from 7 to 7/24 hour access, extension to the flexi time. Know a good few people who'd happily do that, sell it more an option.

Yeah it'd probably not sound great when his work patterns are brought up, but will probably help t

[oldfordie]

staff don't though - thinking more for people who can work from home/offices open from 7 to 7/24 hour access, extension to the flexi time. Know a good few people who'd happily do that, sell it more an option.

Yeah it'd probably not sound great when his work patterns are brought up, but will probably help t

I think it actually makes sense to work 4 10hr shifts rather than 5 8 hr shifts if it can be done, saves a lot of money for a company in operating costs. also saves workers travel costs.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I think it actually makes sense to work 4 10hr shifts rather than 5 8 hr shifts if it can be done, saves a lot of money for a company in operating costs. also saves workers travel costs.

also it'll reduce demand on the railways, which makes it cheaper to buy them back!

[oldfordie]

also it'll reduce demand on the railways, which makes it cheaper to buy them back!

Yeah. it saves money in many ways. the bank holidays were nice but I enjoyed the right to have extra days off with pay whenever I wanted. had to give notice in most cases as it shouldn't effect production. solves many personal problems as it's hard to get things done working 9 to 5 ,5 days a week.

[SP]

surprised he hasn't tried to push a 4 day working week but working more hours during time..g 4 10 hour days rather than 5 8 hour days, or at least give employees that option. Now that would help a decent number of people.

But that is not really a government's job to push. Some Employers already do offer that kind of deal. They tend to have happier, well motivated, more loyal staff. It is good management, but not an area for government.

I suppose they could encourage more creative split season tickets for rail travel. I spent a time working 3 days a week in London, and the rest in a drivable to office.  Cost a fortune, no season ticket benefit at all.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I suppose they could encourage more creative split season tickets for rail travel. I spent a time working 3 days a week in London, and the rest in a drivable to office.  Cost a fortune, no season ticket benefit at all.

a national Oyster card type scheme?

[redmark]

Hahaha never thought id see such pissing and moaning over 4 extra bank holidays. "Oh but its shit months to have a day off, the weather will be shit." Its the UK for christ sake, the weathers always shit. People work enough as it is, this is a nice little bonus for those hard working people, the vast majority of which couldnt give a fuck what time of year it is, its just a day off work. What a thing to get worked up about.

Dont worry folks the way the polls are looking and with you lot set to sulk off to the lib dems youll get your wish of seeing labour decimated. High five!

I've not posted on it, I'm certainly not worked up about it - and as I'm in a job which doesn't deduct it from my entitlement (and I get pretty generous holidays compared to some in this thread), it would be good for me.

But it barely qualifies as a 'policy', does it? Where's the narrative and the range of coherent policy ideas? What exactly has Corbyn done for two years?

(It's a rhetorical question. The focus of Corbyn and his backers has been on changes to party rules, to cement the left's control of the party machinery. Not policy.)

[Alan_X]

March, April and November are shit months for Bank Holidays. The weather is likely to be shite.

We would end up with 5 public holidays in March and April when you add in Easter.

Either this comes out of annual leave, so the net effect is that many workers lose flexibility on 4 days off, or it is additional time off.

260 working  days in the year. Less 20 days leave. Less 8 bank holidays. 232 days. 4 days off is nearly 2% of time. Who pays for that? 

This and all the other comments. Five bank holidays in March and April would be a pain. If it's about giving 'workers' a break why not spread them out more?

And also:

France observes 11 French public holidays each year, however, only May Day is classed as a statutory (paid) holiday in France; the entitlement to other paid French holidays and the conditions for working on French national holidays (such as higher pay) are left to the discretion of the employer-employee contract or union, so check the French holiday calendar when looking for jobs in France.

So it's 11 not 12 in France and a quick search shows that only one is statutory.