Author Topic: Paris  (Read 184540 times)

Online oojason

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1680 on: June 29, 2022, 06:47:13 pm »

'Sports' writer Dan Austin on Gerald Darmanin apology' audio interview on yesterday's BBC Radio Merseyside (13 minutes):-

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0chn4h7



and good to see lan Byrne MP keeping up the pressure too...

'Today I have written to the French Sports Minister to ask her to present evidence of her repeated claim that up to 40K fans with fake tickets tried to enter the Stade de France at the UEFA Champions League final in May or retract her comments and issue a full apology to fans.':-

https://twitter.com/IanByrneMP/status/1542028392148647941
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Offline PhilScraton

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Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1681 on: July 2, 2022, 05:24:55 pm »
UEFA Announcement 1 July 2022:

'UEFA Champions League Final 2022
Independent Review sets final panel, list of experts and timeline


Dr. Tiago Brandão Rodrigues, the Chair of the Independent Review into the distressing events at the UEFA Champions League final in Paris, has made the appropriate key appointments to assist him with the investigation, after consulting with both finalist clubs.

Dr. Rodrigues considers that “The events of 28 May were distressing for everyone involved. This review aims to look at the evidence dispassionately and to identify responsibilities and ways forward. I am very pleased with the responsiveness of the experts we have contacted, and I am confident we can make a significant contribution to future events’ planning”.

As a result, Mr. Frank Paauw and Mr. Kenny Scott were appointed as lead experts of the panel. Frank Paauw, 63, has been the Chief of Police in Amsterdam since 2019 and is a recognised expert in football policing, public order, contingency planning, and crisis management. Kenny Scott, 65, was recommended by both Real Madrid CF and Liverpool FC and is a former UK police Chief Superintendent, serving for over 30 years in the Strathclyde police before heading up the Security and Operations division for Glasgow Rangers Football Club. He served as the Head of Safety and Security Operations at UEFA from 2017 until February 2021.
Both experts have, at various times, served as UEFA Security Officers for individual club competition matches.

The Independent Group – after its first meeting - decided to consult with a number of experts and consultants that will be called during the process to support the review, namely:
 
• Mr. Pete Weatherby QC, Human Rights Barrister
• Mr. Clifford Stott, Crowd Management and Policing Consultant
• Mr. Ronan Evain, Executive Director Football Supporters Europe from France
• Mr. Kevin Miles, Chief Executive of Football Supporters’ Association from England
• Mr. Emilio Abejon, Secretary Genarel of FASFE (National Supporters’ Organisation) from Spain

Dr. Rodrigues will also be administratively supported, in the Lisbon Office, by Mr. Daniel Ribeiro and Mr. Luís Silva, both experienced international event and venue managers. The Independent Group also approved the scope and the timeline of the review.
 
The independent group has set a timeline for its Preliminary Findings at the end of September 2022 and aims to have the Final Report delivered and published by November 2022.

The group has already begun reviewing the documents and other information it has requested. In addition, it will be interviewing all the stakeholders involved, all specialists mentioned and any others that may be seen as relevant for the outcome of the report.
 
The Independent Group has decided that it will not comment publicly until it presents its initial findings.'


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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1682 on: July 2, 2022, 07:34:09 pm »
UEFA Announcement 1 July 2022:

'UEFA Champions League Final 2022
Independent Review sets final panel, list of experts and timeline


Dr. Tiago Brandão Rodrigues, the Chair of the Independent Review into the distressing events at the UEFA Champions League final in Paris, has made the appropriate key appointments to assist him with the investigation, after consulting with both finalist clubs.

Dr. Rodrigues considers that “The events of 28 May were distressing for everyone involved. This review aims to look at the evidence dispassionately and to identify responsibilities and ways forward. I am very pleased with the responsiveness of the experts we have contacted, and I am confident we can make a significant contribution to future events’ planning”.

As a result, Mr. Frank Paauw and Mr. Kenny Scott were appointed as lead experts of the panel. Frank Paauw, 63, has been the Chief of Police in Amsterdam since 2019 and is a recognised expert in football policing, public order, contingency planning, and crisis management. Kenny Scott, 65, was recommended by both Real Madrid CF and Liverpool FC and is a former UK police Chief Superintendent, serving for over 30 years in the Strathclyde police before heading up the Security and Operations division for Glasgow Rangers Football Club. He served as the Head of Safety and Security Operations at UEFA from 2017 until February 2021.
Both experts have, at various times, served as UEFA Security Officers for individual club competition matches.

The Independent Group – after its first meeting - decided to consult with a number of experts and consultants that will be called during the process to support the review, namely:
 
• Mr. Pete Weatherby QC, Human Rights Barrister
• Mr. Clifford Stott, Crowd Management and Policing Consultant
• Mr. Ronan Evain, Executive Director Football Supporters Europe from France
• Mr. Kevin Miles, Chief Executive of Football Supporters’ Association from England
• Mr. Emilio Abejon, Secretary Genarel of FASFE (National Supporters’ Organisation) from Spain

Dr. Rodrigues will also be administratively supported, in the Lisbon Office, by Mr. Daniel Ribeiro and Mr. Luís Silva, both experienced international event and venue managers. The Independent Group also approved the scope and the timeline of the review.
 
The independent group has set a timeline for its Preliminary Findings at the end of September 2022 and aims to have the Final Report delivered and published by November 2022.

The group has already begun reviewing the documents and other information it has requested. In addition, it will be interviewing all the stakeholders involved, all specialists mentioned and any others that may be seen as relevant for the outcome of the report.
 
The Independent Group has decided that it will not comment publicly until it presents its initial findings.'




Sounds more promising. Thanks for the update Phil.
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1683 on: July 2, 2022, 07:51:30 pm »
Good to see Pete Weatherby involved.

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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1684 on: July 2, 2022, 10:17:05 pm »
Cautiously optimistic regards the validity of this inquiry given the make up of the panel.
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1685 on: July 2, 2022, 10:27:38 pm »
The panel looks competent. Just hope UEFA actually listen to them.

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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1686 on: July 2, 2022, 10:43:38 pm »
Great news
Whatever happens, the likelihood of vilifying our fans in an attempt to cover political asses is very low.
Picked the wrong fans to try it on...
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1687 on: July 3, 2022, 01:22:13 am »
My concern is the close connections that the Chair and the two 'lead experts' (both police/ former police officers) have with UEFA. Yes, they did contact me. A long conversation with the Chair ... they didn't invite me onto the Panel. I guess I'm not surprised. We will complete our own Report based on the mass of statements received.

« Last Edit: July 3, 2022, 01:24:56 am by PhilScraton »
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1688 on: July 3, 2022, 01:31:19 am »
My concern is the close connections that the Chair and the two 'lead experts' (both police/ former police officers) have with UEFA. Yes, they did contact me. A long conversation with the Chair ... they didn't invite me onto the Panel. I guess I'm not surprised. We will complete our own Report based on the mass of statements received.



From what I have heard, Kenny Scott is supposed to be pretty straight.

As you say, the key is to produce as much evidence as possible.
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1689 on: July 3, 2022, 01:34:21 am »
Clifford Stott has been interviewed by TAW before hasn't he? From memory he seemed a reasonable bloke.

Cautiously optimistic as has been said above.
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1690 on: July 3, 2022, 06:50:37 am »
Could be a lot worse but my worry is structural. This is not an independent enquiry by its nature, Uefa appointed the chair. This is the Uefa enquiry. A key factor in any explanation of what went on that night is an examination of the role of Uefa and the abdication of it’s responsibilities for our safety. I have zero confidence that this will be given any credence. It looks like a panel structured to examine failures of the police and the French administration, which is a positive compared to the fans being to blame but I can’t see it being too critical of Cefrin and his inaction and arrogance when Steve Rotheram brought what was going on outside to his attention. Cynically it looks like we have done enough to make sure we will not be the major scapegoats but it Looks like uefa realise the French organisers need to be in the firing line if the enquiry has any credibility and that is a necessary prerequisite for Uefa itself to escape critical examination. I don’t think we should label this as anything but the Uefa enquiry it’s not truly independent
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1691 on: July 3, 2022, 04:31:16 pm »
Could be a lot worse but my worry is structural. This is not an independent enquiry by its nature, Uefa appointed the chair. This is the Uefa enquiry. A key factor in any explanation of what went on that night is an examination of the role of Uefa and the abdication of it’s responsibilities for our safety. I have zero confidence that this will be given any credence. It looks like a panel structured to examine failures of the police and the French administration, which is a positive compared to the fans being to blame but I can’t see it being too critical of Cefrin and his inaction and arrogance when Steve Rotheram brought what was going on outside to his attention. Cynically it looks like we have done enough to make sure we will not be the major scapegoats but it Looks like uefa realise the French organisers need to be in the firing line if the enquiry has any credibility and that is a necessary prerequisite for Uefa itself to escape critical examination. I don’t think we should label this as anything but the Uefa enquiry it’s not truly independent

Probably make sense for them to throw the book at the French authorities and pass the buck.

It's because UEFA have zero accountability that these things keep happening at their finals. Rangers and Frankfurt fans had a horrible time of it in their final.

Other key factor is how supporters are treated by police in Europe, particularly by the French police (and Italian and Spanish are bad, too).
« Last Edit: July 3, 2022, 04:34:12 pm by Fromola »
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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1692 on: July 3, 2022, 05:18:37 pm »
Could be a lot worse but my worry is structural. This is not an independent enquiry by its nature, Uefa appointed the chair. This is the Uefa enquiry. A key factor in any explanation of what went on that night is an examination of the role of Uefa and the abdication of it’s responsibilities for our safety. I have zero confidence that this will be given any credence. It looks like a panel structured to examine failures of the police and the French administration, which is a positive compared to the fans being to blame but I can’t see it being too critical of Cefrin and his inaction and arrogance when Steve Rotheram brought what was going on outside to his attention. Cynically it looks like we have done enough to make sure we will not be the major scapegoats but it Looks like uefa realise the French organisers need to be in the firing line if the enquiry has any credibility and that is a necessary prerequisite for Uefa itself to escape critical examination. I don’t think we should label this as anything but the Uefa enquiry it’s not truly independent
Agree with all you've said.

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Re: Paris Inquiry Panel Announced
« Reply #1693 on: July 3, 2022, 05:30:24 pm »
My concern is the close connections that the Chair and the two 'lead experts' (both police/ former police officers) have with UEFA. Yes, they did contact me. A long conversation with the Chair ... they didn't invite me onto the Panel. I guess I'm not surprised. We will complete our own Report based on the mass of statements received.

Absolutely Phil, don't trust this at all. I am also wondering if they have accepted any outside evidence. I know the journalist Rob Draper had done a report on the turnstiles not working. He did say he was sending it in, have you heard anything on that?
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1694 on: July 4, 2022, 05:33:39 pm »

'‘Bulls**t’: French senator slams ‘liar’ Gérald Darmanin over blame of Liverpool fans at Champions League final':-

Gérald Darmanin has been widely lambasted in France, the UK and around the world for his response to the Champions League final fiasco.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/04/bulls-french-senator-slams-liar-gerald-darmanin-over-liverpool-fans-at-champions-league-final-16940122 (by Dan Ausitn)
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1695 on: July 6, 2022, 07:25:21 pm »

'NEW: Paris chief of police Didier Lallement is set to be removed from his job, in part due to his handling of the carnage at the Stade de France.

This would be a significant victory for Liverpool supporters who have fought to show the truth, and for the safety of anyone in Paris'

^ https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1544748185112936449
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1696 on: July 6, 2022, 07:28:34 pm »

''We will not let this lie' - Liverpool and Madrid fans still 'fighting for justice' after Champions League final debacle':-

Both sets of supporters remain united in their determination to get answers and apologies from both UEFA and the French authorities
More than a month may have passed since the Champions League final, but the fallout continues.


www.goal.com/en/news/liverpool-madrid-fans-still-fighting-justice-champions/blt3a0d998b933a1720 (Neil Jones at Goal)

« Last Edit: July 6, 2022, 07:31:47 pm by oojason »
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1697 on: July 6, 2022, 08:21:15 pm »
'NEW: Paris chief of police Didier Lallement is set to be removed from his job, in part due to his handling of the carnage at the Stade de France.

This would be a significant victory for Liverpool supporters who have fought to show the truth, and for the safety of anyone in Paris'

^ https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1544748185112936449

Lallement done. Boris next. Blimey.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1698 on: July 7, 2022, 10:38:29 am »
However, what is being massively underreported is the 'locals'. There was 100's of 'Locals', let's be honest though. African gangs. They were more organised than the police. What I saw from my position makes it very hard to avoid the thought that this was somehow pre-planned with the police. I saw people slashed with knives 6 feet in front of cops, they laughed. I saw people mugged 6 feet in front of cops, they laughed. I saw one guy knocked unconscious (the sound of his head hitting the concrete will stay with me forever), they laughed. Every now and then they would 'charge' at the 'Locals', charge is barely a word I would use, slowly walk towards them is more accurate. They would then disperse, the cops would then leave the area, and the 'locals' would return. I saw around 5 people knocked unconscious, 2 slashed and countless robbed, literally nothing was done. Nothing.

After the game, it was just as bad. ALL sent down one dark underpass where police vans were parked forcing everyone down a maybe 10ft wide space towards the metro. Once past that space, all hell broke loose. 'Locals' were ready. Without exaggerating I maybe saw 10 people slashed and robbed, 20 people smashed in the face, saw one elderly woman screaming because her husband who looked about 80 was pinned down and was having his watch ripped off. If anyone tried to intervene you were met with a blade(s). All of this while the police were watching.

In one incident, I saw 4 'Locals' attack a Red with a knife, took his bag, took his watch and bottled him 3 feet away from police, when a fellow fan punched one of the 'locals' doing it, he got arrested.

What felt like maybe a 15 minute walk of dodging attacks, we got to the Metro station where the police were laughing and saying 'Bye, Bye... Nice to meet you'. I am 38 and have never witnessed distain for human life as much as Saturday.

It still feels like this particular element has been under-reported to be honest. Hundreds of people were attacked after the game, yet the vast majority of what I'm seeing in the media only relates to what happened before the game, with talk of Police and UEFA failings but barely any mention of the gang violence. Ian Byrne's early day motion (whilst great) doesn't really mention the post match carnage. It would be good to see more in the media about the real cause of most of the trouble (the Saint-Denis gangs).
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1699 on: July 7, 2022, 04:42:39 pm »

'Billy Hogan offers update on developments in LFC's response to UCL final events':-

www.liverpoolfc.com/news/billy-hogan-offers-update-developments-lfcs-response-ucl-final-events (with a 10 video and transcript)
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1700 on: July 8, 2022, 12:11:43 am »
'Billy Hogan offers update on developments in LFC's response to UCL final events':-

www.liverpoolfc.com/news/billy-hogan-offers-update-developments-lfcs-response-ucl-final-events (with a 10 video and transcript)

That’s excellent from Billy Hogan. Especially this - “Having read some of the testimonies, we're actually proactively contacting some fans who we think may need some additional support and connecting them with specialists who can provide.”
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1701 on: July 8, 2022, 08:55:32 pm »
Jürgen Klopp talking about what happened:

From LFC’s official site:

I met only a few who were lucky; all the rest I met – my family included – had massive struggles outside. I think it is meanwhile clear it was massively mis-organised. Whoever was responsible was not prepared for that. My family sent me messages before the game, ‘We are in the stadium, good luck’ and all these kinds of things – but they were not. These kind of necessary lies you receive. Then after the game, we had this little party; my missus was not ready to party, still exhausted from all the things around. I think all the things that happened there made it possible that the smallest problem we had that night is that we lost the final – incredible after a Champions League final. It was obviously really difficult. I was not outside but so many people told me the true story and they were all the same story pretty much, so I know what happened.

And from the press today:
“The situation outside? I heard about it first-hand from my family because they were in the middle of everything. They texted me before the game, ‘We are in, good luck’ stuff like this, but they were pretty much one and a half hours away from being in the stadium.

“What happened to them happened to everyone, pretty much. Two or three people I spoke to were lucky, they got in and were waiting. Then there were all the issues throughout the game. There were a lot of spots occupied definitely by people without tickets but they were not Liverpool supporters.

“This is pretty much the story everyone told — everyone had this experience. I think I knew 50 people inside the stadium, 47 people told me exactly the same story. That is obviously not how it should be.

“In the end, it felt for them — and they are passionate Liverpudlians — that the smallest problem we had that night was that we lost the game. Imagine that around the Champions League final. Crazy.

“We all know how beautiful Paris is and the big events they have got coming up in the next few years. But these kinds of things need to be sorted and clarified. I think we were really lucky that more did not happen. We have to make sure it does not happen again.”

“For me, it’s not the last memory of the season to be honest. Mine is the bus tour, which was outstanding. But I was not outside the stadium, trying to get in,” he adds.

“It’s why everyone, the authorities, have to make sure this does not happen again. It was clear where it was (held) was a problem.

“I think in Paris, the authorities would have known about the regional issues there. Anyway, UEFA decided pretty quick that it would be in Paris. There were other cities, obviously, where it could have been held. I understand that they got the information pretty late.

“So how to organise it? You need somewhere it is easy to organise — and UEFA and Paris, this is not the first time they have worked together, all these kind of things. I’m 100 per cent sure that nobody made a mistake intentionally. It’s not that everyone thought: ‘Ah, pfft, who cares how supporters get in!’ But the mistakes still happened and now we have to sort it.”

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1702 on: July 9, 2022, 04:54:59 pm »

'The French senate report outlining the findings of its inquiry into the UCL final at the Stade de France will call it a "fiasco" caused by "multiple organisational failures."

It is set to exonerate fans and will be released on Wednesday at 11am in the UK.'

www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/incidents-lors-de-la-finale-de-la-ligue-des-champions-2022/incidents-au-stade-de-france-dans-un-rapport-le-senat-pointe-des-defauts-d-organisation-majeurs-et-parle-d-un-fiasco_5246953.html

^ from https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1545786479397556226
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1703 on: July 9, 2022, 05:11:34 pm »
'The French senate report outlining the findings of its inquiry into the UCL final at the Stade de France will call it a "fiasco" caused by "multiple organisational failures."

It is set to exonerate fans and will be released on Wednesday at 11am in the UK.'

www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/incidents-lors-de-la-finale-de-la-ligue-des-champions-2022/incidents-au-stade-de-france-dans-un-rapport-le-senat-pointe-des-defauts-d-organisation-majeurs-et-parle-d-un-fiasco_5246953.html

^ from https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1545786479397556226

What we knew all along. A major well done to Dan and everyone else involved  :wave
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1704 on: July 9, 2022, 09:21:28 pm »
'The French senate report outlining the findings of its inquiry into the UCL final at the Stade de France will call it a "fiasco" caused by "multiple organisational failures."

It is set to exonerate fans and will be released on Wednesday at 11am in the UK.'

www.francetvinfo.fr/faits-divers/incidents-lors-de-la-finale-de-la-ligue-des-champions-2022/incidents-au-stade-de-france-dans-un-rapport-le-senat-pointe-des-defauts-d-organisation-majeurs-et-parle-d-un-fiasco_5246953.html

^ from https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1545786479397556226

Good. Nice to see it not taking 2 decades this time round.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1705 on: July 10, 2022, 02:53:39 am »
What we knew all along. A major well done to Dan and everyone else involved  :wave

We need to stop the complacency and do everything we can to make sure that 'UEFA's so-called independent inquiry reaches the correct conclusion.

It is correct that Liverpool fans are not currently apportioned any blame. However that may change.

The biggest thing is that 'UEFA' do not wriggle out of this and continue to blame host Cities for their failures. Year after year 'UEFA' host events that put fans lives at risk.

Year after year they, mismanage huge events and then blame the host City. That has to stop.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1706 on: July 11, 2022, 04:05:19 pm »

From Dan Austin...


'Didier Lallement is finished. The departure of the man who ordered the tear gassing of women, children and the disabled at the Stade de France will be official on 20 July according to @lemondefr. Good riddance to a wildly dangerous, incompetent liar.'

'Does whether they call it a sacking, a resignation or a retirement really matter? I don't care. Didier Lallement's final weeks in office saw him humiliated on an international scale by Liverpool and Real Madrid supporters who proved him a barefaced liar. That is his legacy.'

'A man who told a senate inquiry that he "didn't know any other method" of crowd control than tear gassing and charging is no longer going to be in charge of policing. That is an enormous win for everyone who attended the Champions League final and everyone who lives in Paris.'


^ from https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1546244411805376512
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1707 on: July 11, 2022, 04:06:07 pm »

'Jurgen Klopp calls on UEFA to ‘guarantee’ fan protection after Champions League final fiasco':-

https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/11/jurgen-klopp-calls-on-uefa-to-guarantee-fan-protection-after-champions-league-final-fiasco-16978193 (by Dan Austin)
.
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1708 on: July 12, 2022, 10:19:42 am »
Champions League: Witnesses raise new questions about chaos of Paris final

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62120782
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1709 on: July 12, 2022, 03:13:03 pm »
Champions League: Witnesses raise new questions about chaos of Paris final

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62120782

They've put it out in a video now too mate...

'Champions League final chaos due to failures that risked lives, BBC finds - BBC News'

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/uN_W1sgNqQA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/uN_W1sgNqQA</a>
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Re: Paris
« Reply #1710 on: July 12, 2022, 09:21:59 pm »

'NEW: Further doubts over Uefa’s ‘independent review’ of Champions League final horrors; Chair introduced ‘repressive’ Portugal fan card and dept was criticised for Hillsborough reference; Other panel member worked for Uefa and still occasionally does.'

^ from https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1546923881222606849

the article...


'Uefa’s Champions League final review chair introduced ‘repressive’ fan card':-

MP Rodrigues criticised in Portugal over Hillsborough reference
Kenny Scott’s appointment to panel raises independence doubts


www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/12/uefa-champions-league-final-review-chair-fan-card-tiago-brandao-rodrigues-liverpool-real-madrid
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Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1711 on: July 13, 2022, 11:46:05 am »
French Senate report out today :

Live on : http://videos.senat.fr/video.2949734_62ce78c05d4ed.incidents-au-stade-de-france-le-28-mai-2022--conference-de-presse

Main points translated from the press conference by @_Dan_Austin

https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin



Laurent Lafon :

"This report has been agreed unanimously by every senator involved. We have done a precise analysis of all the mistakes and made recommendations so that it doesn't happen again."

"This was a chain of administrative errors. That means nobody really felt they were responsible. They all thought they had played their own part fine enough."

 "There was no real coordination between the different organisations and nobody had any foresight."

"The gravity of what happened at the Stade de France shows that there are many decisions to be taken to ensure this doesn't happen again at the Rugby World Cup or the Olympic Games."

"The first thing which caused problems was the management of tickets by UEFA. UEFA put nothing in place and there were 2,741 fake tickets. The verification of tickets was flawed."

"Fake tickets were not the only cause or even the main cause of the problems which happened at the Stade de France."

"Our first recommendation is to make electronic tickets mandatory for large sporting events."

"It is unfair to have sought to blame Liverpool supporters for the disturbances as the minister of the interior [Gérald Darmanin] has done to deflect attention from the state's inability to adequately manage the crowd."

"There was a need to communicate clearly about transporting the fans from the train station between the chief of police, the French Football Federation, and the train operators but this didn't happen."

"We recommend communicating with football supporters more and improving the attractiveness of the area around the Stade de France so that people are willing to arrive early."

"We want the authorities' view of football supporters to change, that is a strong recommendation that we are making."




François-Noël Buffet :


"Liverpool fans have been presented as the people who were mainly at fault for all these problems. That isn't right."

"Most of the delinquency took place around the stadium after the match. This should have been foreseen."

"Another lesson is that supporters have not been listened to and have been misunderstood. Liverpool supporters have been identified as hooligans, throwing them back to the stereotypes of the 1980s."

"The ticket pre-filter check was untenable. The situation caused the chaos and drama. That is a failure of the chief of police."

"The number of fake tickets that the chief of police told us there were, 40,000, was incorrect."

"The pre-filter check has only been tried once before. The police were negligent on the petty crime around the stadium, and the failed pre-filter check meant criminals were able to enter around the stadium."

"The number of Liverpool fans on the RER D was indeed higher than would have been expected, but that is because of the strike on the B line."

"There was not a single reaction from anyone to the problems caused by the train strike. Not from the train operator, not from the organiser [UEFA], and not from the chief of police."

"This chaos shocked people internationally and has damaged the reputation of France."

"Our recommendation is for the minister of interior to create a doctrine clarifying the use of tear gas [so that it is used less often]."

"Our recommendation is for CCTV of public events like this to be kept for 30 days. The chief of police should make sure this happens on a point of principle."



Laurent Lafon :


"The organisation of the Champions League final showed a lack of co-ordination between all the authorities. In future, we should have clear structure of who is responsible for what."





Questions from the press now...














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Re: Paris
« Reply #1712 on: July 13, 2022, 12:00:53 pm »

Been pretty much spot on with everything said up to now - Spot on and fair play .
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Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1713 on: July 13, 2022, 12:09:27 pm »
Questions from the press answered...

From @_Dan_Austin



Laurent Lafon:

"The number of people around the stadium did not cause all the chaos. Liverpool supporters wanting to support their team are not responsible. We know they travel en masse, that was foreseen."

François-Noël Buffet:

"There is a real regret that we were not able to see the CCTV. They are not accessible to us. But that absence doesn't compromise our findings now."

"France is definitely capable of organising big sporting events. It would be very useful if the prime minister would come out and say the government is going to re-organise the ways in which we do that based on our report."

"It is desirable from our point of view for the government to make public comments on this report. That would be reassuring for everyone."


Laurent Lafon:

"It is unquestionable that the authorities must explain themselves. Comments from the prime minister or even the president of the republic are necessary."

François-Noël Buffet:

"All of our recommendations require a legislative intervention, expect for one: the fact that the different authorities need to communicate more."

Laurent Lafon:

"Evidently, we present out our apologies and our condolences for what happened to Liverpool and Real Madrid fans. They are victims of what happened."

 "It is not our role to demand sanctions against the minister of the interior [Gérald Darmanin]."

"It is clear that the arguments put forward by the minister of the interior Gérald Darmanin are not the cause of the problems at this match."

"Our role is not to demand the resignation of different people. We can't say that in the report."



https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1547176482027487232

The press conference is over.

The senate could not have been clearer. Liverpool fans have been admonished of any responsibility over what happened at the Stade de France.

Their findings prove that a deeply flawed organisation caused everything.


« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 12:11:43 pm by mersey_paradiso »
RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1714 on: July 13, 2022, 12:14:20 pm »

Lets see how the UEFA investigation ( whitewash ) goes !
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Offline mersey_paradiso

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1715 on: July 13, 2022, 12:15:05 pm »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62146769

Uefa Liverpool final: String of errors in French handling, says report
By Paul Kirby
BBC News


A French inquiry into the security fiasco at the Uefa Champions League final in Paris in May has found that it was caused by a string of administrative errors and failings.

The French government initially blamed Liverpool fans and fake tickets for the crowd chaos that led to supporters being tear-gassed and robbed.

But a Senate report has found authorities blamed them unfairly.

Dysfunctional mistakes were made at every level, it said.

Two Senate committees investigated what went wrong on the night of the Champions League final between Liverpool and Real Madrid on 28 May, taking evidence from Liverpool fan and club representatives as well as French officials.

Liverpool fans have told the BBC that the problems were caused by digital tickets not working properly on the night, leading to problems at the turnstiles. A rail strike made things worse leading to bottlenecks as supporters arrived for the match.

As well as being tear-gassed outside the ground, fans were robbed and assaulted by local troublemakers. It then emerged that CCTV footage had been wiped a week later because no request had been made to save it.

Laurent Lafon, one of the inquiry's two chairmen, spoke of a dysfunctional chain of events and failings in preparation: "Everyone went their own way without there being any real co-ordination."

In evidence to the Senate committee last month, Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin admitted things could have been better organised and apologised for the "disproportionate" use of tear gas. But he maintained Liverpool fans were largely to blame. He had earlier complained that 30,000-40,000 Liverpool fans had arrived at the stadium either with no tickets at all or with forgeries. Uefa made clear there had actually been 2,700 fake tickets on the night.

The shocking scenes outside the stadium came as an embarrassment to the government ahead of June parliamentary elections and as France plans for the 2023 Rugby World Cup and 2024 Paris Olympics. Local authorities had little time to prepare for the May final, after it was moved from St Petersburg because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Ahead of the Senate report, co-chairman Jean-Noël Buffet accused Mr Darmanin of lying: "In the aftermath he was spouting rubbish - that's what inflamed the situation. Had he admitted mistakes and apologised there wouldn't have been an issue."

Mr Darmanin has since apologised to supporters for what happened outside the stadium.

RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1716 on: July 13, 2022, 12:37:58 pm »
Given how the majority of us couldn’t really give two shites about the match once in and being more worried about the aftermath can I have my admission money back please

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1717 on: July 13, 2022, 12:38:15 pm »
Refreshing to have a report that pins the blame on someone other than fans.

Thanks as ever to Dan Austin for his sterling work.

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1718 on: July 13, 2022, 12:49:07 pm »
https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1547180311473168384

Liverpool fans were not to blame for what happened at the Champions League final. It is irrefutable now, in the form of the French senate findings.

The authorities and politicians are rightly slammed for their failures and lies.

Please read and share.



https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/13/liverpool-fans-exonerated-over-uefa-champions-league-final-fiasco-as-french-authorities-blasted-in-scathing-report-16988849/

Liverpool supporters have been completely exonerated over the ‘fiasco’ at the UEFA Champions League in May, with the French government and authorities being blasted for their role in ‘multiple organisational failures’ in a findings published by the country’s senate.

Reds fans including women, children and the disabled were locked outside turnstiles in dangerous crushes at the Stade de France, tear gassed and hit with riot shields by riot police forces, and robbed by armed gangs of local youths as they attended European football’s showpiece event.

While French politicians responded in the immediate aftermath by blaming English fans for the chaos, a senate inquiry was set up in order to ascertain what went wrong and who was responsible, with politicians, the regional chief of police, UEFA, and supporter representatives all among those asked to provide testimony before senators in central Paris over the course of June.

Now, six weeks after a night which left some fans traumatised and others with serious physical injuries, Liverpool supporters have been absolved of any wrongdoing whatsoever, while the authorities have been found to be culpable due to a combination of an institutional ‘lack of co-ordination’ and policing ‘failures.’

In a press conference held to accompany the release of the report detailing the findings of its investigation on Wednesday, senate inquiry co-chairman Laurent Lafon said: ‘Liverpool supporters wanting to support their team are not responsible for what happened. The number of people around the stadium did not cause all the chaos. We know these fans travel en masse, that was foreseen.’

‘Every authority was acting on their own without co-operating, and that means nobody really felt they were responsible for anything. This was a chain of administrative errors. It is clear that the arguments put forward by the minister of the interior Gérald Darmanin, including that there was a massive ticket forgery, are not the cause of the problems at this match.’

‘We present our apologies and our condolences for what happened to Liverpool and Real Madrid fans. They are victims of what happened.’

The findings completely contradict the authorities’ version of events, which from the outset had been widely discredited in France and the United Kingdom. French minister of the interior Gérald Darmanin and sports minister Amélie Oudéa-Castéra repeatedly sought to blame fans for what went wrong in Saint-Denis, with Darmanin in particular being derided for his baseless claim that up to 40,000 Liverpool supporters with fake tickets tried to storm the stadium.

At no point during the investigation did the politicians provide a scrap of evidence supporting their claims, while vital CCTV footage from the stadium was “automatically deleted” before the senate or judiciary were given an opportunity to observe it. The arguments made by Darmanin, Oudéa-Castéra and chief of police Didier Lallement have now been found entirely false.

The senate findings reveal the investigation found that almost every single authority failed in the organisation of the match at one point or another. Particular errors cited include the failure of stewards and police to safely manage a pre-filter ticket check, a failure to respond to a train striker which forced a disproportionate number of fans to arrive at the stadium by one trajectory, and the stereotyping of fans based on false information.

Co-chairman François-Noël Buffet said: ‘One lesson learned that football supporters have not been listened to and have been misunderstood. Liverpool supporters have been identified as hooligans, throwing them back to the stereotypes of the 1980s.’ Lafon added: ‘We want the authorities’ view of football supporters to change, that is a strong recommendation that we are making.’

The findings of the report vindicate supporters of both Liverpool and Real Madrid, who have spent the weeks since the final posting timestamped audio-visual evidence of what happened on social media. Now, attention will turn to the responded from the French government, with both the 2023 Rugby World Cup and 2024 Olympic Games due to be held at the same stadium.

Though the senate report makes clear who was responsible for the dangerous disorder at the Champions League final and makes a series of recommendations for future improvements, this kind of investigation is not legally binding France, meaning Emmanuel Macron’s government could potentially ignore it and refuse to acknowledge its failures.

Buffet, however, insists that the government must make a public comment: ‘It is desirable from our point of view for the government to make public comments on this report. That would be reassuring for everyone.’ Lafon agreed, adding: ‘It is unquestionable that the authorities must explain themselves. Comments from the prime minister or even the president of the republic are necessary.’

Lallement is set to leave his role as chief of police on 20 July, with his final weeks in office having seen him humiliated on an international scale over both his management of the final and his testimony at the senate, in which he admitted the 40,000 ticketless fans figure had ‘no scientific value’ and said he knew of ‘no other method’ of crowd management than using tear gas or charging through.

His role in the disorder is highlighted extensively in the report, with Buffet saying: ‘The pre-filter ticket check was untenable, and that situation caused the chaos and drama. That is a failure of the chief of police. The police were negligent on the petty crime around the stadium, and the failed pre-filter check meant criminals were able to enter around the stadium.’

Darmanin and Oudéa-Castéra have retained their positions in Macron’s new government following legislative elections in June. The ruling party lost its majority, with the damage done to France’s reputation internationally by the Stade de France chaos playing a role in Macron’s group losing seats.

For Lafon, Darmanin’s testimony in the senate was highly problematic. ‘It is unfair to have sought to blame Liverpool supporters for the disturbances as the minister of the interior [Gérald Darmanin] has done in order to deflect attention from the state’s inability to adequately manage the crowd,’ the senator said.

UEFA, meanwhile, has appointed an independent panel of experts led by Portuguese politician and academic Dr. Tiago Rodrigues to conduct its own investigation into what happened. The panel is expected to deliver preliminary conclusion in September and a final comprehensive report in November.



https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1547182303109160961

The French senate report completely exonerates Liverpool fans over what happened at the Champions League final. Now, two things must happen:

1. A full formal apology from the French government published in French, English, and Spanish
2. A French parliamentary inquiry under oath


If you believe that there should be consequences for what happened at the Champions League final, and that football fans in Europe should be safer, join the call for these two things.

Share the message from your own account, contact your MP, and help keep the story in the news.

RIP Alex Jarmay .                                           Justice  for the 97 YNWA

Mr Alex Ferguson on Anfield after St Etienne 77 : "I didn't walk away from the ground after the game, I floated out. I had been caught up in the most exciting football atmosphere I have ever experienced...these Liverpool fans support with PASSION"

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Re: Paris
« Reply #1719 on: July 13, 2022, 12:58:00 pm »
.
^ well in to mersey_paradisio for all the above  :thumbup



'Liverpool fans unfairly blamed for Champions League chaos, French Senate report finds'

Report says blame was to ‘divert attention’ from state’s failure
‘Major shortcomings’ identified relating to May’s final in Paris


www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/13/liverpool-fans-unfairly-blamed-for-champions-league-final-chaos-paris-french-senate-report



'Liverpool fans unfairly blamed for Champions League final chaos, says French Senate report'

Police used tear gas on supporters as they waited to gain entry to the Stade de France

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-champions-league-final-france-senate-darmanin-b2122153.html



'Liverpool FC fans falsely blamed for Paris Champions League final chaos, Senate report finds':-

The findings of the report said "It is unfair to have sought to blame Liverpool supporters for the disturbances"

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-fc-fans-falsely-blamed-24475141



'Liverpool fans demand minister resign after government report on Champions League final':-

French Senate report said supporters were unfairly blamed for Stade de France fiasco amid calls for interior minister Gerald Darmanin to step down after he tried to make fans responsible without evidence

www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-fans-demand-minister-resign-27472220



'Liverpool fans and British MPs demand apology and inquiry over Champions League final chaos' (by Dan Austin):-

Liverpool fans have officially been found blameless for the chaos at the UEFA Champions League final, and are now demanding action.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/13/liverpool-fans-and-british-mps-demand-apology-and-inquiry-over-champions-league-final-chaos-16988925



'Uefa Liverpool final: Fans faced smear campaign, mayor says':-

Liverpool fans faced a smear campaign with "sinister echoes of Hillsborough" following the trouble-marred Uefa Champions League final, the city's mayor has said.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-62155076



'Liverpool fans unfairly blamed for chaos at Champions League final, says French Senate report':-

Shambolic scenes outside the ground saw supporters with tickets made to wait in huge queues until after the match began.

www.itv.com/news/granada/2022-07-13/liverpool-fans-unfairly-blamed-for-chaos-at-champions-league-final



'Liverpool FC fans ‘unfairly blamed’ over Uefa Champions League chaos':-

a report from the French Senate has said that initial judgement was used to “divert attention” from the failures of the organisers.

www.channel4.com/news/liverpool-fc-fans-unfairly-blamed-over-uefa-champions-league-chaos



'Liverpool fans unfairly blamed for Champions League chaos, French Senate report finds':-

LIVERPOOL fans were unfairly blamed for the chaos which surrounded last season’s Champions League final in Paris to “divert attention” from the failure of the organisers, a French Senate report has found.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/s/liverpool-fans-unfairly-blamed-cl-final-chaos-french-senate-report-finds



'Liverpool fans unfairly blamed for Paris fiasco to "divert attention", says French Senate':-

CL Final overshadowed by serious problems; dangerous crushes formed as a result of access issues and many fans were tear-gassed or pepper-sprayed by police

www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12651162/champions-league-final-liverpool-fans-unfairly-blamed-for-paris-fiasco-to-divert-attention-says-french-senate



''Unfair' to blame Liverpool fans for Champions League chaos — French Senate report' (free article):-

Liverpool supporters were unfairly blamed to “divert attention” from the failure of the organisers, a French Senate report has found.

https://theathletic.com/news/liverpool-fans-champions-league-final-paris-senate/p1vR6Wss74h7



'Reaction to Senate Report' - from the Spirit Of Shankly:-

Liverpool Fans Exonerated

https://spiritofshankly.com/response-to-lfc-ticketing-update



'Billy Hogan reacts to French Senate report on UCL final events':-

Liverpool FC CEO Billy Hogan has tonight provided the club's reaction to the French Senate's report on the causes of the distressing events at the Champions League final in Paris in May.

www.liverpoolfc.com/news/billy-hogan-reacts-french-senate-report-ucl-final-events



'The Senate evokes "failures in the preparation" of the Champions League final at the Stade de France' (translated via google):-

The Senate report on the incidents on the sidelines of the CL final at the Stade de France exonerates Liverpool supporters and points to the dysfunctions of the organizers.

www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Le-senat-evoque-des-defaillances-dans-la-preparation-de-la-finale-de-ligue-des-champions-au-stade-de-france/1343398




From David Conn...

'French Senate report into Uefa Champions League final horrors in Paris vindicates Liverpool fans:

"It is unfair to have tried to blame Liverpool supporters ... as the minister did, to divert attention from the state's inability to adequately manage the crowds present."

So the French police and ministers - in a terrible echo of South Yorkshire police at Hillsborough - blamed the victims to cover up their own mismanagement.

But it was also shocking that Uefa didn't know better than to parrot those tales on the night, still not retracted.'

^ from https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1547190489169936384








^ https://twitter.com/_Dan_Austin/status/1547179147771904000

« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 11:15:47 am by oojason »
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Some 'Useful Info' for following the football + TV, Streams, Highlights & Replays etc - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769

A mini-index of RAWK's 'Liverpool Audio / Video Thread' content over the years; & more - www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=345769.msg17787576#msg17787576