Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[Draex]

Any truth in the rumours we're in for Vince Clortho this summer?

No chance we’re paying that level of buyout, Gozer be kidding me.

[Hazell]

No chance we’re paying that level of buyout, Gozer be kidding me.

Fair point. Sumerian league isn't that strong anyway.

[Eeyore]

Maybe that’s a good thing? You’ve said in the past you’ve felt like Klopp burned out due to a lack of supporting structure around him at the top, you also said you felt it was integral we returned to something like the past to avoid the same happening to a future manager.

What if those that are running the club have felt that giving the manager/HC that additional responsibility is too demanding on them and potentially impacts how they do their job - or impacts the stress levels that come with the job?

At the end of the day, Slot doesn’t have to agree to working under the structure, so discussing it as a potential issue seems silly if he’s agreeing to come here and work under it. I personally think it’s a positive move and clinging onto English football’s traditional values/titles is pointless, especially when we’re not bringing someone who’s worked in English football.

There are a couple of things firstly one of the big triggers for stress is not having control and the power to do things. Secondly I am actually an advocate of a Sporting Director model. The thing is it is hugely important role and for me Hughes hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be given the role.

Edwards basically made his name by getting big fees for players like Ibe, Smith and Solanke amongst others. The worrying thing is it was his mate Hughes who was buying them. Then you get to him appointing the likes of Scott Parker and Jason Tindall as managers. Hughes has spent a lot of money at Bournemouth relative to the size of the club but he hasn't really made money on many players.

[Garlic Red]

There are a couple of things firstly one of the big triggers for stress is not having control and the power to do things. Secondly I am actually an advocate of a Sporting Director model. The thing is it is hugely important role and for me Hughes hasn't shown anywhere near enough to be given the role.

Edwards basically made his name by getting big fees for players like Ibe, Smith and Solanke amongst others. The worrying thing is it was his mate Hughes who was buying them. Then you get to him appointing the likes of Scott Parker and Jason Tindall as managers. Hughes has spent a lot of money at Bournemouth relative to the size of the club but he hasn't really made money on many players.

So if a stress trigger is not having the power to do something, why would you agree to join a club and work under such circumstances?

I’m sure Hughes has made some questionable decisions over the years, you’d struggle to find anyone at the relegation candidates that hasn’t. Unless you’re a Brighton and have the backing of someone like Tony Bloom and the advantages that brings, the others will always struggle as it’s much harder to convince players to join clubs like Bournemouth than it is to join established clubs.

I would also say it’s a bit harsh to bring the likes of Ibe and Smith up, they were literally from his first transfer window in his first appointment in the job. Like anyone, you’ll make mistakes early on, is it really fair bringing them up 8 years later?

[rossipersempre]

So if a stress trigger is not having the power to do something, why would you agree to join a club and work under such circumstances?

If I'm Slot, making such a gargantuan step up, it's much more stress-free and provides a certain freedom, in being given less responsibility and just focusing on coaching the team. With the astronomical uplift in salary, he has little to lose in accepting the role.

I would also say it’s a bit harsh to bring the likes of Ibe and Smith up, they were literally from his first transfer window in his first appointment in the job. Like anyone, you’ll make mistakes early on, is it really fair bringing them up 8 years later?

Can you name any more recent counter examples during Hughes' decade at Bournemouth?

[Giono]

Any truth in the rumours we're in for Vince Clortho this summer?

That would make Michael Edwards Gozer?

"Many Shubs and Zulls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Sloar that day, I can tell you."

[Bobinhood]

Forgive me, but you guys have jumped the shark. Who sits next to who and who says what to whom about the playing staff, all painted up as a matter of vitally needed strict accountability. As if that level of micro management means anything.

Klopps gone. Nobody's as good. as a result we are obviously fucked and if the stars align we will go again with our good young squad and the new brains and same owners, and if not we'll regress untill we look like the Mancs after Ferguson. Live with it. Putting out name cards for carefully curated press conferences aint gonna change squat.

If the new guy has good ideas and skills and the players get behind him and work hard then we will be fine. if hes a charlatan or out of his depth 2 years from now the squad will be unrecognizable because of exits and we will be looking to hire again. This was our fate from the moment Klopp decided organizing stateside summer friendly money spinner tours and fighting pgmol and MBS was not for him anymore. 

I think our chances are pretty good, better than i did at first, but nobody knows and only time will tell and the press conference seating arrangements are not going to matter at all and neither will whether Klopp shares his view of the squad with Slott or not.

[Garlic Red]

Can you name any more recent counter examples during Hughes' decade at Bournemouth?

Ake?

They’ll get a good fee for Solanke when he goes.

[DLF]

That’s a good point re United, my concerns however are

1)  Would we attract top talent like Alonso if they can’t pick their own players?

It depends.  Alonso doesn't at the moment and when he goes to Madrid he won't there either.  Mourinho stated his ideal position is just to be a head coach.  Rodgers wanted to be a manager and refused to work under a DoF.  I can imagine Rafa wanting more power.

2) Where does innovation happen if we are buying players who suit our style of play? Klopp has gone but we will be playing his type of football ad infinitum ? Liverpool played the boot room way for years, pass and move. In the nineties Ferguson brought in a new style with his fast wingers and aggressive pressing. We had to adapt.

With a successful set up like Txiki & Pep they are completely in alignment football wise, talk all the time and of course it can evolve.  Txiki worries about how to replace de Bruyne in 2 years and Pep himself in 5.  Pep can then concentrate on having sleepless nights about facing Jurgen's teams  .

3) What is the record of those picking the players? Are they good at it.

It's no silver bullet. Txiki bought de Bruyne but then someone bought Rafa a table when he wanted a lamp or something when he was at Valencia.  I think Bob Paisley would have made an excellent DoF and Roy Evans would have fared much better under him with just head coach responsibilities.  The boot room doesn't really go away just the division of responsibilities.

Of all clubs Liverpools culture is manager over team. He is the leader of  a city not just a club. The manager not picking the players is changing a fundamental part of our DNA.

Oh I dunno.  The Manc deification of 'SAF' is something to behold which seem to increase the longer they carry on being shit.  There's nothing wrong with having a charismatic head coach but Bob was the manager of my youth so personally I don't need a messianic figure.  I'm just happy when we win!

[Eeyore]

So if a stress trigger is not having the power to do something, why would you agree to join a club and work under such circumstances?

I’m sure Hughes has made some questionable decisions over the years, you’d struggle to find anyone at the relegation candidates that hasn’t. Unless you’re a Brighton and have the backing of someone like Tony Bloom and the advantages that brings, the others will always struggle as it’s much harder to convince players to join clubs like Bournemouth than it is to join established clubs.

I would also say it’s a bit harsh to bring the likes of Ibe and Smith up, they were literally from his first transfer window in his first appointment in the job. Like anyone, you’ll make mistakes early on, is it really fair bringing them up 8 years later?

You want a more recent one. How about spending £25m on Tyler Adams after he failed a medical at Chelsea. He has made 3 appearances this season. As I have said the remain thing is Bournemouth have spent a lot of money but recouped very little. Over the last two seasons they have brought in £1m from players sales.

He was also the Technical Director when Bournemouth got relegated. For me there is nothing that screams out that he should be trusted to be the Sporting Director of one of the World's biggest clubs.

[Draex]

Fair point. Sumerian league isn't that strong anyway.

And the Carpathian one has already been bled dry by the cheats.

[killer-heels]

You want a more recent one. How about spending £25m on Tyler Adams after he failed a medical at Chelsea. He has made 3 appearances this season. As I have said the remain thing is Bournemouth have spent a lot of money but recouped very little. Over the last two seasons they have brought in £1m from players sales.

He was also the Technical Director when Bournemouth got relegated. For me there is nothing that screams out that he should be trusted to be the Sporting Director of one of the World's biggest clubs.

Thing is though Al, if you go through all the supposed good Sporting Directors, they all have mixed transfer records. Judging a person on how good their player transfers are will always paint a mixed picture.

[Peabee]

People are finding new ways to find a problem with Slot’s appointment. Now the fact he’s happy to carry on working in a set up he’s been working in his whole career is seen as a bad thing. And no other coach worth his salt would want to work in a set-up they’ve been working up to now anyway

at the end of the day, I’m sure Michael Edwards came back on the promise this would be the way things worked.  But it really isn’t an unusual set-up.

It takes a chunk of responsibilities away from the Manager (Head Coach), so he can just focus on the coaching and football. Good move imo, especially when you look at how 8.5 years have worn out Klopp. It also leaves Slot a chance to bat away tiresome and irritating questions on recruitment and contracts in pressers ("I am not responsible for that. Next question.").

[Mr Grieves]

I wonder if the Caciedo money will be coming the new man’s way?

[rossipersempre]

Thing is though Al, if you go through all the supposed good Sporting Directors, they all have mixed transfer records. Judging a person on how good their player transfers are will always paint a mixed picture.

I think Al's issue here is Hughes seems to have been appointed by virtue of being Edward's mate from their Portsmouth days. Rightly or wrongly, Edwards has been given almost total autonomy on football matters by FSG and yet there wasn't any hint of a "robust and data-driven process" being applied to recruitment for this particular job. He was all but given the nod the minute Edwards accepted the role of Football CEO, almost as a prerequisite. That doesn't sit well with me.

[Peabee]

I wonder if the Caciedo money will be coming the new man’s way?

Just wait for the James Pearce article about a supposed warchest this summer. 

[Garlic Red]

You want a more recent one. How about spending £25m on Tyler Adams after he failed a medical at Chelsea. He has made 3 appearances this season. As I have said the remain thing is Bournemouth have spent a lot of money but recouped very little. Over the last two seasons they have brought in £1m from players sales.

He was also the Technical Director when Bournemouth got relegated. For me there is nothing that screams out that he should be trusted to be the Sporting Director of one of the World's biggest clubs.

I’m not trying to defend him by the way, I just think it’s easy to scrutinise someone trying to establish a club in the premier league. The Adams example you give there is a pretty good one. He fails a medical at Chelsea, they think the injury will take a few months to heal, they decide to avoid the transfer. That then presents an opportunity for Bournemouth, who may be willing to wait the extra time because he’s better than anything else they’re able to pursue at that time, or he’s seen as a safer bet with his PL experience. He gets to the club, they patiently wait for him to get fit and it turns out he requires further surgery. The risk hasn’t paid off this season. He’s on a 5 year deal though and it could still pay off.

It’s a tough thing to judge, again this goes back to Edwards having enough credit in the bank where you’re willing to trust the appointment of Hughes essentially because nearly every person Edwards has brought into the club has been brilliant. His ability to judge people seems to be his greatest strength.

[Peabee]

I think Al's issue here is Hughes seems to have been appointed by virtue of being Edward's mate from their Portsmouth days. Rightly or wrongly, Edwards has been given almost total autonomy on football matters by FSG and yet there wasn't any hint of a "robust and data-driven process" being applied to recruitment for this particular job. He was all but given the nod the minute Edwards accepted the role of Football CEO, almost as a prerequisite. That doesn't sit well with me.

It does smack of cronyism, but that exists everywhere on some level. I've benefitted from it previously, in finance, as people want to work with people they know and trust. Then you get massive multinationals like BMS, Nvidia etc, that interview externally but generally they end up making an internal appointment.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

You want a more recent one. How about spending £25m on Tyler Adams after he failed a medical at Chelsea. He has made 3 appearances this season. As I have said the remain thing is Bournemouth have spent a lot of money but recouped very little. Over the last two seasons they have brought in £1m from players sales.

He was also the Technical Director when Bournemouth got relegated. For me there is nothing that screams out that he should be trusted to be the Sporting Director of one of the World's biggest clubs.

And he's there now when they're having their most successful season ever? Does he get any credit for that? He's clearly doing something right.

[rossipersempre]

It does smack of cronyism, but that exists everywhere on some level. I've benefitted from it previously, in finance, as people want to work with people they know and trust. Then you get massive multinationals like BMS, Nvidia etc, that interview externally but generally they end up making an internal appointment.

Of course it goes on, but it shouldn't be allowed to especially in such a high profile role.

As for those external interviews, they usually happen because legally HR have to open up the process even if only for appearances' sake. Thing is, there's no suggestion we even considered the likes of Steidten, Mitchell, Pinto, Zorc etc. never mind interviewed them.

[Samie]

[Samie]

[Samie]

[KirkVanHouten]

Not sure why but I’m not feeling especially confident in anything about the club right now. New structure. New coach. Same squad. Something just feels off. Klopp leaving is obviously a big negative to overcome. But there’s just something wrong atmospherically to me. Or maybe I’m just hallucinating.

This season ending so flatly now, I hope it doesn’t carry into the next one.

[Chris~]

Of course it goes on, but it shouldn't be allowed to especially in such a high profile role.

As for those external interviews, they usually happen because legally HR have to open up the process even if only for appearances' sake. Thing is, there's no suggestion we even considered the likes of Steidten, Mitchell, Pinto, Zorc etc. never mind interviewed them.

Football is by far the worst for it. How do you think they all got their start, or even extending it out to other top clubs and managers/sporting directors. If you aren't using who you know to ex-clubs to get ahead post playing career you're fucked

[Samie]

Not sure why but I’m not feeling especially confident in anything about the club right now. New structure. New coach. Same squad. Something just feels off. Klopp leaving is obviously a big negative to overcome. But there’s just something wrong atmospherically to me. Or maybe I’m just hallucinating.

This season ending so flatly now, I hope it doesn’t carry into the next one.

Same squad because season isn't over and we can't officially sign anyone. 

[Draex]

Not sure why but I’m not feeling especially confident in anything about the club right now. New structure. New coach. Same squad. Something just feels off. Klopp leaving is obviously a big negative to overcome. But there’s just something wrong atmospherically to me. Or maybe I’m just hallucinating.

This season ending so flatly now, I hope it doesn’t carry into the next one.

I’m the opposite, we’ve needed a reset for some time, defence can’t stop conceding, too many injuries, front line going through spells of fluffing their lines far too regularly.

We were a team built around Klopps energy and that has clearly waned, so a new direction is what everyone needs as sad as that is.

[KirkVanHouten]

Same squad because season isn't over and we can't officially sign anyone. 

True but I’m not expecting a huge summer 

[Draex]

It does smack of cronyism, but that exists everywhere on some level. I've benefitted from it previously, in finance, as people want to work with people they know and trust. Then you get massive multinationals like BMS, Nvidia etc, that interview externally but generally they end up making an internal appointment.

Bournemouth just recorded their highest Premiership points total with a team and manager Hughes helped build, I think cronyism is a bit harsh, he’s clearly a talented guy.

[Fromola]

Not sure why but I’m not feeling especially confident in anything about the club right now. New structure. New coach. Same squad. Something just feels off. Klopp leaving is obviously a big negative to overcome. But there’s just something wrong atmospherically to me. Or maybe I’m just hallucinating.

This season ending so flatly now, I hope it doesn’t carry into the next one.

It's the 3rd time in 4 seasons we've got stuck in a rut, January 2021 we were top of the league and collapsed for 2-3 months down to mid table before recovering for top 4 with a late run of wins. Last season we were poor from August to March but really bottomed out in Jan and Feb, when everything was hopeless. We recovered well to at least get Europa and could have nicked top 4.

Jurgen did well to recover from 20/21 with the success of 21/22 and the poor last season to have us challenging again, but we need a refresh through the club. Jurgen knows he needs the break and some more changes on the pitch. We've also rode our luck a lot this season and it wasn't sustainable.

[SerbianScouser]

Also, get Geertruida.

[KirkVanHouten]

I’m the opposite, we’ve needed a reset for some time, defence can’t stop conceding, too many injuries, front line going through spells of fluffing their lines far too regularly.

We were a team built around Klopps energy and that has clearly waned, so a new direction is what everyone needs as sad as that is.

Yeah it’s interesting because we can only guess from the outside. To me it feels like Klopp has lost the energy because competing with City with our resources is extremely difficult. Similar to what happened at Dortmund, and that losing him might make the difference more apparent. And the players he left behind at Dortmund never reached the same heights. Rather than the squad being stale, it’s that he’s wrung everything he could from them and a new manager might not be able to draw as much from the same players.

Hopefully Slot is great but I’ve not felt this level of apathy for a new season before but it’s hard to get excited when you’re losing one of the best fitting managers we’ve ever had.

[spider-neil]

I wonder if the Caciedo money will be coming the new man’s way?

Half of the Caicedo money. Endo and Grav cost 50m.

[Fromola]

Yeah it’s interesting because we can only guess from the outside. To me it feels like Klopp has lost the energy because competing with City with our resources is extremely difficult. Similar to what happened at Dortmund, and that losing him might make the difference more apparent. And the players he left behind at Dortmund never reached the same heights. Rather than the squad being stale, it’s that he’s wrung everything he could from them and a new manager might not be able to draw as much from the same players.

Hopefully Slot is great but I’ve not felt this level of apathy for a new season before but it’s hard to get excited when you’re losing one of the best fitting managers we’ve ever had.

Some foundations have been laid though with youngsters like Quansah, Bradley, Clark, Bajcetic, Mcconnell, Doak, Koumas, Gordon and Danns. Obviously can't just throw them all in but they can help freshen things up, along with some sound recruitment this summer. More to come from youngish lads like Elliott, Jones, Mac Allister, Gravenberch as well.

The future looked rosy a month ago with the squad, so a month later it's not all hopeless.

The injury situation is unsustainable though from the past two years.

[redbyrdz]

Not sure why but I’m not feeling especially confident in anything about the club right now. New structure. New coach. Same squad. Something just feels off. Klopp leaving is obviously a big negative to overcome. But there’s just something wrong atmospherically to me. Or maybe I’m just hallucinating.

This season ending so flatly now, I hope it doesn’t carry into the next one.

"Same squad" - it's not summer yet! Pretty sure there'll be changes.  But I'd really rather want Slot to be here first  than us getting rid of players or signing anyone without his input!

[Samie]

Ours and Feyenoord's last game of the season is May 19th. Slot's contract won't officially begin till June 1st anyway but I'm hoping he'll be here to get things started early.

[Draex]

Ours and Feyenoord's last game of the season is May 19th. Slot's contract won't officially begin till June 1st anyway but I'm hoping he'll be here to get things started early.

I'd imagine it's well underway.

[Garlic Red]

Of course it goes on, but it shouldn't be allowed to especially in such a high profile role.

As for those external interviews, they usually happen because legally HR have to open up the process even if only for appearances' sake. Thing is, there's no suggestion we even considered the likes of Steidten, Mitchell, Pinto, Zorc etc. never mind interviewed them.

The thing we don’t know is what we wanted from the position. For all we hark on about transfer records and so on, the club might be looking at Hughes and saying he’s a great cultural fit, he’s got experience dealing with big agents and he’s a good fit with the existing recruitment team at the club. Those people you named all have big reputations at different clubs, but imagine the upheaval it would have caused if we brought one in and they wanted to bring their own people in? Or they didn’t want to work under Edwards for whatever reason?

It’s easy to just measure transfer records and say they’re shite, they’re good, but I imagine it’s one of so many responsibilities the position has. It’s the one we put the most emphasis on but I imagine most clubs (United aside) are interested in every aspect of the job, not just “what’s your transfer record?”

[Hazell]

Just want to say some well balanced posts in this thread Garlic Red.

A big change is coming this summer and none of us know how things will turn out, but at the very least we've made moves to get some stability behind scenes again. Let's hope FSG have got their decisions correct.

[wemmick]

I think FSG will be better owners under the new structure. Very similar to baseball and hockey. I think they have struggled at times with the strong, broad managerial role.