Topic: Alcohol Issues - The Carl van Riel Memorial Thread

[Bigfatmeff]

If I could answer that one I'd probably be able to have stopped doing it sooner.  I think honestly I know I shouldnt be drinking that much, and if it was out in the open she'd call me on it. So i avoided having to have the confrontation.

[ianburns252]

Doesn't need to be some profound thing - honestly, simply recognising that it was to avoid the inevitable fallout from it shows that you are taking ownership and that is a damn good start.

[Son of Spion]

Thanks Ian, all good advice.  I think the last line is the one that hits home the most.  Just can't believe I ended up in this position.  From the outside I'm sure I look relatively successful - good job, great family, nice house - why do i need to risk it to neck a few cans of crappy lager on the sly.

To me, answering that question is usually the key to understanding then addressing the problem.

There is always an underlying reason for why we drink. The questions are, what are we hiding from? What thoughts and/or feelings are we running away from? What void are we trying to fill with alcohol? What are we trying to compensate for by drinking? What issues do we think drinking 'solves' for us in the short term?

These, and other searching questions can uncover the real issues behind the coping strategy, and if we address those issues it can change the landscape and reduce the reliance on maladaptive coping strategies.

[Bigfatmeff]

I think I use what most people would consider everyday trials and tribulations as an excuse to drink to "let off steam" or wind down instead of talking those frustrations through with my other half.  She's constantly saying I never open up to her and bottle my emotions and frustrations up.  i know its not healthy, toxic even, but for me, its easier than opening up.  I think I tend to project negative responses onto my missus - "She''ll just say x/y/z .. criticise me... moan if I bring it up - the beer wont answer back"

[AndyInVA]

Interesting back and forth.

Meff - I can certainly understand some of your thoughts. I know I don't want to bther my wife with work stress and don't really want to 'open up' to her about shitty work stuff and have to explain it and her not really understand it so its easier not to. At times I will though just so she understands why I look so stressed. She doesn't have to understand the issues, she just has to know its stressful for me. Then she adjusts my domestic work load a bit and picks up some things so I don't have to do them. If your issues are not work related then I would suggest trying to quit for a month and really take a hard look at what is causing you the problems.

The booze is just the self medication.

I used to look forward to when my ex wife would be out for a day at her mothers so I could wasted on vodka and watch TV all day. Use to love those days. She had no idea how much I drank as I was usually asleep by the time she got back.

I think this kind of site is very valuable as many people here have been through what you are going through and have some sympathy and we can show our thoughts but of course the hard yards are with you.

It sounds like a bit of self reflection without the judgement clouding booze for a while may be a good start.

[AndyInVA]

There is always an underlying reason for why we drink. The questions are, what are we hiding from? What thoughts and/or feelings are we running away from? What void are we trying to fill with alcohol? What are we trying to compensate for by drinking? What issues do we think drinking 'solves' for us in the short term?

Exactly

[Johnny Foreigner]

I'm doing fine at the moment; but just wanted to thank Bigfatmeff (some user name that mate !!) for sharing and as usual some excellent replies. Had a pretty open conversation with the missus a couple of days ago; and she wanted me to talk to someone etc.. Actually I am - I think the advice on this site - coming from people that don't judge and have first hand experience is way more valuable than a 45 minutes session where you're billed by the minute..

[So… Howard Philips]

I'm doing fine at the moment; but just wanted to thank Bigfatmeff (some user name that mate !!) for sharing and as usual some excellent replies. Had a pretty open conversation with the missus a couple of days ago; and she wanted me to talk to someone etc.. Actually I am - I think the advice on this site - coming from people that don't judge and have first hand experience is way more valuable than a 45 minutes session where you're billed by the minute..

I'm sure an invoice can be arranged.......

[damomad]

The posts about making excuses to mates about not drinking, haven't we all been there.

I've used everyone excuse under the sun and it took me a long time to get away from the types of "friends" who would have a problem with me wanting to spend time with them, without a drink. It's shite but as with any former acquaintance in life, eventually you see them less and less and then you barely think about them at all, and you don't really care what they think of you either.

Men are tragic. We can only be open to each other either anonymously on football forums or when on the drink. At least with the former you have something to show for it, and it's not all hot air, forgotten about the next morning.

[ianburns252]

The posts about making excuses to mates about not drinking, haven't we all been there.

I've used everyone excuse under the sun and it took me a long time to get away from the types of "friends" who would have a problem with me wanting to spend time with them, without a drink. It's shite but as with any former acquaintance in life, eventually you see them less and less and then you barely think about them at all, and you don't really care what they think of you either.

Men are tragic. We can only be open to each other either anonymously on football forums or when on the drink. At least with the former you have something to show for it, and it's not all hot air, forgotten about the next morning.

Such a key thing about the types of friends who would sack you off if you weren't on the beers.

I had it with a lad I was friends with up in Leeds. Known each other about 5 years, pretty close and that, and when I moved down to London earlier this year he was buzzing for a visit.

Started getting a date set in but I then had a rough patch and needed to not drink - now I can go out clubbing stone cold sober and that so I was still well up for seeing him but as soon as I said I wasn't drinking that weekend he cancelled all the plans.

Some people are just drinking buddies but you spend so much time with them when you are a pisshead that you convince yourself that they are proper friends.

[damomad]

Some people are just drinking buddies but you spend so much time with them when you are a pisshead that you convince yourself that they are proper friends.

And there is nothing inherently wrong with drinking buddies either. I see it similar to workmates, when a job is no longer doing it for you, you generally don't ask former colleagues to hang out in a different setting. You move on and live and let live. In your friend's case I wouldn't even hold it against him, he just isn't used to seeing you in a different setting (or state) and the results could be uncomfortable for him.

[ianburns252]

And there is nothing inherently wrong with drinking buddies either. I see it similar to workmates, when a job is no longer doing it for you, you generally don't ask former colleagues to hang out in a different setting. You move on and live and let live. In your friend's case I wouldn't even hold it against him, he just isn't used to seeing you in a different setting (or state) and the results could be uncomfortable for him.

Short of going into the full context of it, we were considered close enough friends at one point that I was at his wedding so it isn't simply an old colleague.

This is what I mean about it seeming like it was less each other's company that we enjoyed as it was our ability to sink pints.

I'm not saying there is a problem with it either though, but I'd suggest that as with many superficial or shallow relationships there will also generally be one side who thinks things are closer than the other and the realisation can hurt, especially if there has been a Lee of openness or mutual reliance at times

[Bigfatmeff]

Thanks for all the comments and support - its really helping me process this.  When I stopped drinking in the past the few close friends I told were really supportive and non judgemental - at least to my face.  I agree about the men being tragic bit - or at least this one - even when I do catch up with my mates I never really open up to them even if I am having issues or upset about something - "how's it going?"... "Sound, yeah..."

I've signed up to some CBT courses and some journaling apps to see if that can help me break the habits of using stresses and anxiety as an excuse to drink. Even started opening up to my missus a bit more last night.  Just hope I can keep it going.

[AndyInVA]

How is everyone doing. Usually a very tough time of year to be giving up booze. I hope everyone is doing well in their own way.

[ianburns252]

How is everyone doing. Usually a very tough time of year to be giving up booze. I hope everyone is doing well in their own way.

Managing better than I thought I would be - arguably drinking too much when I do go out but only once a week tops (and not a weekday), managing to get myself out of bed the following day rather than wallowing in self pity, and most importantly not having any "added sugar" when I do go out.

I've got an acquaintance though that is really struggling and was going to see what the forum thinks - he has moved over from Ireland to London to get away from some trouble over there. Not 100% sure if he was actively in trouble or just likely to get in trouble but either way.

He is meant to be cutting back the booze and that (part of the reason for the move) and is coming into c. £500k inheritance in the new year which he wants to put towards covering costs of him studying and then looking to open his own business which is great.

Thing is, the last couple of weeks I have had messages off him asking me to get him stuff - the first one was 11am on a Tuesday and he had already had a few Jack and Cokes so wanted a ticket to go out on a mad one.

I had gone out of my way to delete any contact who could possibly get me one so I explained that to him (don't want to be a dick and have a pop at him about trying to get stuff off a lad you barely know on a Tuesday morning as that won't help him) and so he gets on at me nagging asking me to ask around. Eventually just have to ignore him.

His cousins mum (who he is living with over in England) has said he can't stay at hers if he is drunk due to having kids there and being worried how he will act - as a result no one heard from him for 3 days as he was holed up in a Travel Lodge to stay out the way.

Got another text off him on Friday (having not heard from him since this previous incident about 3 weeks or so ago) asking if I could get some "for his mate". He gave it large about how he was getting off the booze and all that as well and I just thought - don't try and bullshit someone with the same problems as you as it stands out a mile off.

Again, just explained that I couldn't help him as I didn't have any numbers but said if he fancied coming over to chill and that he could. Shockingly he didn't take me up on it and next I heard was this morning off his cousin to say he had go to her mum's friend's at 4am on Saturday morning, steaming, looking for somewhere to crash out.

Horrible situation and this lad is just cheating himself really but everyone is emotionally invested in helping him, and his cousin bunged him a grand to help him get settled, has helped him with a CV and that and he is just throwing it back in his face.

Anyone here had to help alcholic/drug addicted mates? Suggestions?

[Billy The Kid]

Anyone here had to help alcholic/drug addicted mates? Suggestions?

I've had to do it plenty of times mate. One thing I've learned from experience (both from working with addicts and going through recovery myself) is that the person suffering from the addiction has to have a genuine desire to sort their shit out. If they don't, then all the help and favours from family and friends will ultimately come to nothing. I knew by the time I got to the 3rd sentence of your post exactly where the story was going. Not because I'm psychic or anything, but because this stuff ALWAYS follows the same pattern. My circumstances may have been slightly different, but my behaviour was exactly the same as your mates once upon a time. I used and abused the kindness of more people than I care to remember. It was only when I got brutally honest with myself that I finally managed to get well

If I was you, I'd swerve him until he makes an honest attempt to get his act together. Don't be fooled by the "meant to be cutting back" nonsense. The only thing he's cutting at the moment are fresh lines.

[spen71]

Well im back to the bottom (as i call it)    some of  you might remember,  i went 8 years sober with AA     was enjoying life.    lost my dad and then mum in quick sucession   havent been able to stop drinking since    wake up with the jitterbugs every morning.    promise myself no more, then have one can to calm me down.    depressed, anxious and insomnia is bad.

sorry for the lack of gramma   never been able to work out how to turn it on with the laptop

[ianburns252]

I've had to do it plenty of times mate. One thing I've learned from experience (both from working with addicts and going through recovery myself) is that the person suffering from the addiction has to have a genuine desire to sort their shit out. If they don't, then all the help and favours from family and friends will ultimately come to nothing. I knew by the time I got to the 3rd sentence of your post exactly where the story was going. Not because I'm psychic or anything, but because this stuff ALWAYS follows the same pattern. My circumstances may have been slightly different, but my behaviour was exactly the same as your mates once upon a time. I used and abused the kindness of more people than I care to remember. It was only when I got brutally honest with myself that I finally managed to get well

If I was you, I'd swerve him until he makes an honest attempt to get his act together. Don't be fooled by the "meant to be cutting back" nonsense. The only thing he's cutting at the moment are fresh lines.

Aye, I've made excuses like that plenty of times and so I can tell when someone is trying to blag it. Him asking for a number "for a mate" and so on is so easily seen through for example.

From my own personal experience I know that you can't (or at least very rarely can) quit something for other people. That is why smoking has always been a bugger for me as whilst in the past I have been able to decide when I do or don't want to drink (sadly it is binary, either I drink nothing or when I do drink I drink the bar dry) I have never truly wanted to quit smoking but more felt like I should so it doesn't stick. This lad has told us all he is going to get himself off to AA and is going to do this and that but it is clear bullshit.

He needs a tight leash if he is going to make a change I reckon but we all also have our own lives going on and so without us around 24/7 to babysit he is free to do this stuff.


Spen - really sorry to head about your mum and dad mate. Are you round the clock drinking? Or is it more vicious cycle drinking where you get hammered of an evening, hanging out your arse in the morning, struggle through the day, and then have to drink in the evening to feel better again?

[AndyInVA]

Well im back to the bottom (as i call it)    some of  you might remember,  i went 8 years sober with AA     was enjoying life.    lost my dad and then mum in quick sucession   havent been able to stop drinking since    wake up with the jitterbugs every morning.    promise myself no more, then have one can to calm me down.    depressed, anxious and insomnia is bad.

sorry for the lack of gramma   never been able to work out how to turn it on with the laptop

Spen mate, thanks for the honesty and I feel desperately sorry for you. I know from this thread that for a really long time you were doing really well. Losing a parent and then both parents is clearly really hard. It's so sad to lose all that forward momemtum and be in a bad place.

Are you still functioning during the day or are you now just all over the place

[Billy The Kid]

Aye, I've made excuses like that plenty of times and so I can tell when someone is trying to blag it. Him asking for a number "for a mate" and so on is so easily seen through for example.

If he was my mate I'd be telling him to try and get himself sorted out before he inherits all that money. Otherwise he's going to go into free fall

some of  you might remember,  i went 8 years sober with AA     

Sorry to hear about your parents spen, I've no doubt that must have been tough to deal with

But you've managed to get long periods of dry time under your belt before

You can do it again with the right help. Plenty in here if you need it. Keep us posted!

[ianburns252]

If he was my mate I'd be telling him to try and get himself sorted out before he inherits all that money. Otherwise he's going to go into free fall

Sorry to hear about your parents spen, I've no doubt that must have been tough to deal with

But you've managed to get long periods of dry time under your belt before

You can do it again with the right help. Plenty in here if you need it. Keep us posted!

You can tell people to get sorted and provide all the support in the world you want but if you can't get them to buy in you are stuck.

That is what my question was about - ways of getting that commitment from someone who doesn't really want to get sorted. You know what I mean?

[A-Bomb]

I've missed Carl unquestionably, especially right now in my life. To me he was a very good friend, and before anything else one i could call upon to dump a whole load of shit that constitutes my life on and he'd never judge nor question.....if anything he may have seen it as a distraction from his own. He'd never mother me, nor appeal to my greater good. He'd just be brutally honest in a lovely way that never made you feel he was tearing you apart - but he was, giving a good slap on your arse.

Having broke up with my partner of 4 years, having had a sense of stability for that time, i find myself wobbling in a bad direction.

All you need do is go back to the earlier pages of this thread to understand what they may look like. I never had any concerns being honest with Carl, he never judged.

I'm frightened of myself right now, and what i'm capable of.

[Billy The Kid]

That is what my question was about - ways of getting that commitment from someone who doesn't really want to get sorted. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I know what you mean mate. Tell them they ought to get sorted, and that you'd rather swerve them until they do

As tragic as this sounds, the sooner an addict loses everything and/or hits rock bottom, the better

[AndyInVA]

I've missed Carl unquestionably, especially right now in my life. To me he was a very good friend, and before anything else one i could call upon to dump a whole load of shit that constitutes my life on and he'd never judge nor question.....if anything he may have seen it as a distraction from his own. He'd never mother me, nor appeal to my greater good. He'd just be brutally honest in a lovely way that never made you feel he was tearing you apart - but he was, giving a good slap on your arse.

Having broke up with my partner of 4 years, having had a sense of stability for that time, i find myself wobbling in a bad direction.

All you need do is go back to the earlier pages of this thread to understand what they may look like. I never had any concerns being honest with Carl, he never judged.

I'm frightened of myself right now, and what i'm capable of.

be careful mate, think things through. Carl meant something to a lot of us but clearly he was a real friend to you and you are right, he never really judged and I agree, helping others let him step away from his life for a bit.

you sound in a tough place

always hard to know what to say to someone when you sound as upset as you are are.

the usual things you hear do have value though, make sure you try to talk to someone, consider anti depressants (I did and they do help you through a bad patch) or just take some time to sleep to make yourself feel better or the other chestnut of going for a walk or exercise. Always easy to say these things but always hard to drag yourself up to do them when you feel down.

[spen71]

Gone a bit quiet in here!

Two weeks off the ale now, was sitting down a fortnight ago and I suddenly said to myself “what the fuck am I doing,  I went 8 years and got myself back in the mess I was ten years ago.   Mentally, physically and financially.   


Sleep is finally happening which is a blessing.    Still feel very fatigued and a bit low.   I know This takes time to settle.     Being sober I can start to deal with grieving for my parents.  I’ve mentioned that both of them have passed away In the last two years.

I’ve also got a massive issue with my brother.    Could do with some legal advice really.   Time to stop buying my head in the sand!

[24/7]

Am going dry again today. A few years ago I did three months. Last year I did four. This year I am aiming for six. I don't want another drink ever again. Seeing my dead father's body in a morgue kinda did me in for a while......

Been lurking, occasionally looking in to see what's going on here.....next stop, the depression thread.

To be honest, I don't really care about the footie any more. Or politics. Or Brexit. Or the world in general. Just trying to keep my head above water and out of the line of fire.

[Lee1-6Liv]

Am going dry again today. A few years ago I did three months. Last year I did four. This year I am aiming for six. I don't want another drink ever again. Seeing my dead father's body in a morgue kinda did me in for a while......

Been lurking, occasionally looking in to see what's going on here.....next stop, the depression thread.

To be honest, I don't really care about the footie any more. Or politics. Or Brexit. Or the world in general. Just trying to keep my head above water and out of the line of fire.

Welcome back Jim and goodluck.

[spen71]

Welcome back Jim

[AndyInVA]

Been lurking, occasionally looking in to see what's going on here.....next stop, the depression thread.

It’s definitely true that depression and booze go hand in hand. Hopefully knocking booze on the head will allow you to focus on the depression side of things. Either way it’s hard and it will take a while to work your way through it. Good luck.

[Nobby Reserve]

Am going dry again today. A few years ago I did three months. Last year I did four. This year I am aiming for six. I don't want another drink ever again. Seeing my dead father's body in a morgue kinda did me in for a while......

Been lurking, occasionally looking in to see what's going on here.....next stop, the depression thread.

To be honest, I don't really care about the footie any more. Or politics. Or Brexit. Or the world in general. Just trying to keep my head above water and out of the line of fire.

Nice to see you back, and hope things have worked out for you these past few months. Great to see you rediscover the resolve to beat this.

[rob1966]

Nadine Dorries needs to check out this thread.

[Nobby Reserve]

Nadine Dorries needs to check out this thread.

And Gove the drugs one?

[AndyMuller]

Anybody else suffer with massively low moods after a session of drinking? I went out last weekend both on Saturday and Sunday (which I haven't done for years) and the following week I was massively down and depressed and I've now got myself a nasty cold that I can't get rid of.

I'm not even that big a drinker in general but I'm thinking of just packing it in altogether as I can't be doing with being that low again.

[24/7]

Anybody else suffer with massively low moods after a session of drinking? I went out last weekend both on Saturday and Sunday (which I haven't done for years) and the following week I was massively down and depressed and I've now got myself a nasty cold that I can't get rid of.

I'm not even that big a drinker in general but I'm thinking of just packing it in altogether as I can't be doing with being that low again.

Precisely why I found myself packing it in again - am sick of the come downs........and the guilt........

Ultimately, alcohol, whilst magnifying whichever you mood you are in at the time (euphoria, aggression, etc.), is a depressant. Full stop.

[AndyMuller]

Precisely why I found myself packing it in again - am sick of the come downs........and the guilt........

Ultimately, alcohol, whilst magnifying whichever you mood you are in at the time (euphoria, aggression, etc.), is a depressant. Full stop.

Spot on Jim and it's good to see you back posting on the forum mate.

It is horrible how down you can feel after a night out drinking, this has happened more than once with me now so I am seriously considering swerving the drink altogether.

[24/7]

Spot on Jim and it's good to see you back posting on the forum mate.

It is horrible how down you can feel after a night out drinking, this has happened more than once with me now so I am seriously considering swerving the drink altogether.

I came to understand not only just how much booze my dad was putting away and how much it cost him financially but I also came to know just how long he'd been keeping it secret - not 5 years, not 10, not even close - apparently his alcoholism went all the way back to the 80s. What a fuckin waste. Seriously. It really rocked me, that.........going through his notes, seeing just how overwhelming it was for him, the realisation of the depth of his self-deceit and then his attempts at lying to others and also cutting out anyone who disagreed with his world view - it was terrifying to ready (it's the biggest reason why I took a break - I had to re-evaluate most of my life in terms of how my father and I related - badly at best is what I thought - the truth was worse - I literally did not exist in his reality most of the time) - and all of it fuelled by wine.........then whiskey...........then voddie..........then depression.........then guilt......then brutal suicide........

Nah mate - knock it on the ed and reclaim yer life.

[AndyMuller]

I came to understand not only just how much booze my dad was putting away and how much it cost him financially but I also came to know just how long he'd been keeping it secret - not 5 years, not 10, not even close - apparently his alcoholism went all the way back to the 80s. What a fuckin waste. Seriously. It really rocked me, that.........going through his notes, seeing just how overwhelming it was for him, the realisation of the depth of his self-deceit and then his attempts at lying to others and also cutting out anyone who disagreed with his world view - it was terrifying to ready (it's the biggest reason why I took a break - I had to re-evaluate most of my life in terms of how my father and I related - badly at best is what I thought - the truth was worse - I literally did not exist in his reality most of the time) - and all of it fuelled by wine.........then whiskey...........then voddie..........then depression.........then guilt......then brutal suicide........

Nah mate - knock it on the ed and reclaim yer life.

Ah Jim, really sorry to hear about your father and his struggles, mate.

[Johnny Foreigner]

How is everybody doing ?

[Johnny Foreigner]

To answer my own question; monumental fuckup some months ago. no casualties, but some tough and well deserved talks . 16 weeks now

[TepidT2O]

Bravo!