Author Topic: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?  (Read 14742 times)

Offline Spanish Armada

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #120 on: December 20, 2005, 05:25:02 pm »
Here's one for you - is laughing at a racist joke make you a racist?
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Offline Elli

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #121 on: December 20, 2005, 05:27:19 pm »
If you can convince anyone that you are being oppressed by not having a piglet cartoon on your tesco receipt then good luck to you and your campaign mate.

Have you not seen Monty Python's Life of Brian then? ;D

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #122 on: December 20, 2005, 05:31:06 pm »
Yes - stop oppressing me

 :mooncat

That better?
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Offline BIGdavalad

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #123 on: December 20, 2005, 05:31:55 pm »
:mooncat

That better?

Yes - why is he called a mooncat though?

Bloody piggist bastards.
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Offline redmen9

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #124 on: December 20, 2005, 05:44:15 pm »
So do you think Tesco should have kept the pig on the receipt?
 

From Tesco's perspective I guess not,  but from my personal perspective I think it's ridiculous that anyone can take offense at an image of a living breathing creature that walks this earth!  I'm not clued up about the Islamic faith but I believe that like every other organised religion a lot of its understanding boils down to interpretation.

Tesco's bowing to this 'pressure'/'protest' sets a ridiculous precedence in my opinion paving the way for other groups to complain about other innocuous issues.

Another link to the 'story' :http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/bmms/1997/08August97.html#Tesco pigs

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #125 on: December 20, 2005, 07:09:44 pm »
 

From Tesco's perspective I guess not,  but from my personal perspective I think it's ridiculous that anyone can take offense at an image of a living breathing creature that walks this earth!  I'm not clued up about the Islamic faith but I believe that like every other organised religion a lot of its understanding boils down to interpretation.

Tesco's bowing to this 'pressure'/'protest' sets a ridiculous precedence in my opinion paving the way for other groups to complain about other innocuous issues.

Another link to the 'story' :http://artsweb.bham.ac.uk/bmms/1997/08August97.html#Tesco pigs

Here we go again..... one shop in Leyton, two tills with plain rolls for muslim customers who might be offended, all other tills suitable for Dava.

'He expressed his views quite strongly and the matter has been dealt with. He still comes in here"

Also the story is from 1997 ffs.... No story.... move along now......

Quote
Tesco pigs

Following the complaint by a Muslim of the printing of the picture of a pig on till receipts in Tesco’s supermarkets, the supermarket’s Leyton branch has introduced two tills with plain rolls to prevent offence (Eastern Eye, 29.08.97, Asian Times, 02.09.97, Q-News, 05.09.97), (see BMMS for February 1997). According to the acting manager at the Leyton shop: "We had a gentleman in here who was jumping up and down about the fact that there were pigs on the till rolls. ... There might have been ten bits of bacon that went through before him but he didn’t seem bothered about that. He expressed his views quite strongly and the matter has been dealt with. He still comes in here" (Q-News, 05.09.97). [BMMS August 1997 Vol. V, No. 8, p. 4]

 Seems like a sensible local level solution to a minor problem.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 07:13:55 pm by Alan_F »
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Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #126 on: December 20, 2005, 08:20:02 pm »
Here we go again..... one shop in Leyton, two tills with plain rolls for muslim customers who might be offended, all other tills suitable for Dava.

'He expressed his views quite strongly and the matter has been dealt with. He still comes in here"

Seems like a sensible local level solution to a minor problem.

I think you'll find that Dava and most people wouldnt have a problem with whatever was on the till roll. Hence no need for a second till.

Also if it was just the one person who complained then surely this means Tesco didnt change the till purely for the lost revenue that one customer could generate. I'm sure if they had put a pic of the moon on there and I had complained (being an anti moonist) then the outcome would of been somewhat different. In fact I hate the No 2, so maybe I could have a till that doesnt use that number.

It matters not when the story was. Its just a useful tool to debate the issues surrounding the whole of the PC charade.

All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #127 on: December 20, 2005, 08:50:08 pm »
I think you'll find that Dava and most people wouldnt have a problem with whatever was on the till roll. Hence no need for a second till.

Also if it was just the one person who complained then surely this means Tesco didnt change the till purely for the lost revenue that one customer could generate. I'm sure if they had put a pic of the moon on there and I had complained (being an anti moonist) then the outcome would of been somewhat different. In fact I hate the No 2, so maybe I could have a till that doesnt use that number.

It matters not when the story was. Its just a useful tool to debate the issues surrounding the whole of the PC charade.



If no-one has a problem with what was on the till roll apart from the guy who protested - where's the story? and why get so excited by it? Blank till rolls cost nothing. It wasn't a country wide policy by Tesco as the headlines imply so how is it anything to do with the "PC charade?" I didn't raise the loss of revenue issue - which means it was a considerate act for no personal or monetary reward. If anything the removal of advertising from the till roll may have had a miniscule impact on Tesco's revenues.

We have a couple of Jewish and Muslim clients. Some are devout and we take them to restaurants that serve kosher/halal food. Is that PC? or simply considerate? We have some vegetarian clients and consultants. They are in the minority - shouldn't they accept the majority decision and be forced to eat meat? Isn't it PC to pander to their minority wishes?

In the first instance the reason this story has nothing to do with the "PC" is that it affected no-one else apart from the man in question. Nobody elses rights or feelings were hurt. It was not part of some campaign to restrict the rights of all good-thinking people. In fact as with most PC stories it is a minor local, issue taken out of context and blown out of proportion. It was to do with consideration, thoughtfulness, understanding of anothers point of view. What is the problem with that?
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Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #128 on: December 20, 2005, 09:49:58 pm »
As I stated earlier I am under no illusion why it was reported. It was a meaningless action that has been highlighted by the local press and blown out of all proportion to feed the ever increasing "PC Charade" bandwagon that we live with these days.

And it appears to have had its desired effect.

On the point of the till roll:

Quote
We had a gentleman in here who was jumping up and down about the fact that there were pigs on the till rolls

Hence the till roll was changed.

Do you think if I (one person) went into Tesco, jumped up and down and asked them to change the meatballs to a higher shelf, they would do it. I'm not really keen on the layout of the shelves in Tesco.

I think you are being very naive if you think they done this purely out of consideration. I, on the other hand, think they were well aware of any bad press they would get if it found its way to the local rag that they had ignored the persons wishes. I also think they are probably embarassed that the whole thing has been leaked out.



All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #129 on: December 20, 2005, 10:18:59 pm »
As I stated earlier I am under no illusion why it was reported. It was a meaningless action that has been highlighted by the local press and blown out of all proportion to feed the ever increasing "PC Charade" bandwagon that we live with these days.

And it appears to have had its desired effect.

On the point of the till roll:

Hence the till roll was changed.

Do you think if I (one person) went into Tesco, jumped up and down and asked them to change the meatballs to a higher shelf, they would do it. I'm not really keen on the layout of the shelves in Tesco.

I think you are being very naive if you think they done this purely out of consideration. I, on the other hand, think they were well aware of any bad press they would get if it found its way to the local rag that they had ignored the persons wishes. I also think they are probably embarassed that the whole thing has been leaked out.

err..... it did find it's way to the press. Talking of naive do you think they give a flying fuck about the impact of this story:

Quote
Tesco profits break through £2bn
 
Overseas expansion and non-food lines have boosted sales
Supermarket giant Tesco has become the first UK retailer to unveil annual profits of more than £2bn.
The UK's biggest supermarket chain posted underlying pre-tax profits of £2.03bn ($3.83bn), up 20.5% on 2004.

Tesco's chief executive Sir Terry Leahy cited the group's overseas expansion and moves into non-food areas like CDs and clothes for boosting growth.

Tesco's overall turnover increased 12.4% to £37.1bn, with sales in the UK making up £29.5bn of that figure.

The group's market share has continued to grow in the UK despite fierce competition.

"These results again demonstrate the broad appeal of the Tesco brand," said Sir Terry.

Yup, they must be quaking in their boots about some tinpot story from 1997 about one customer in their Leyton store...... ::)

Yeah,. you're right -  I must be naive. I do things out of consideration every day and so do many of my friends, family and aquaintances. You must live in a pretty shitty world if all you can think about and see in others, is self-interest.
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Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #130 on: December 20, 2005, 10:26:37 pm »
Alan mate. Zen. Let Mamooya calm you  :rant

Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #131 on: December 20, 2005, 10:58:14 pm »
Well Allan,

From my shitty little world of self interest and selfishness


Answer me this honestly. Do you think Tesco changed the till roll purely out of consideration for this chaps feelings? Or do you not think it might (just might) have had something to do with the fact that the man was a Muslim, and they were maybe more worried about a newspaper leak of them NOT respecting other peoples religous/cultural wishes, as opposed to any damage done bya newspaper leak that shows them obliging the poor offended chap. No you're maybe right, I am so wrapped up in my selfish shitty little world that I cant see the generosity of a that huge organisation.

People have already argued the case on here that Tesco may have done it so as not to offend their Muslim customers, and so it was probably done with an eye on marketting.

Answer me this. If I was to walk in tomorrow and jump up and down and ask them to change something as it offends me. Even though nobody else was taking offence do you think they would?
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #132 on: December 20, 2005, 11:16:52 pm »
Alan mate. Zen. Let Mamooya calm you  :rant

Hiya mate how are you?

I'm getting worried that I'm enjoying this too much. I've just started with Dava on some over-zealous police politically correct thread. I need more pointless entertainment like the Rant thread...... save me.

 :rant :rant :rant :rant
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #133 on: December 20, 2005, 11:19:47 pm »
Well Allan,

From my shitty little world of self interest and selfishness


Answer me this honestly. Do you think Tesco changed the till roll purely out of consideration for this chaps feelings?

honestly?............    yes, and because he was obviously an annoying fucker.....  line of least resistance is the reason for most things in this world....

Quote
Or do you not think it might (just might) have had something to do with the fact that the man was a Muslim, and they were maybe more worried about a newspaper leak of them NOT respecting other peoples religous/cultural wishes, as opposed to any damage done bya newspaper leak that shows them obliging the poor offended chap. No you're maybe right, I am so wrapped up in my selfish shitty little world that I cant see the generosity of a that huge organisation.

People have already argued the case on here that Tesco may have done it so as not to offend their Muslim customers, and so it was probably done with an eye on marketting.

Answer me this. If I was to walk in tomorrow and jump up and down and ask them to change something as it offends me. Even though nobody else was taking offence do you think they would?

I tell you what... Tell me what to ask them to change and I'll go in to my local Tesco Express and do it tomorrow. You do the same and compare notes tomorrow night.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2005, 11:21:58 pm by Alan_F »
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Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #134 on: December 20, 2005, 11:26:32 pm »
Ask them if they can put a pig on the till roll like they used to have in 1997. Tell them your kids like seeing it and you would like it back.

After they've done that for you, out of nothing more than consideration, give me the address of the store and I'll pop in and ask them to remove it as I don't like pigs.

What do you recommend, jumping up and down first, or a quiet word?
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #135 on: December 20, 2005, 11:29:24 pm »
Ask them if they can put a pig on the till roll like they used to have in 1997. Tell them your kids like seeing it and you would like it back.

After they've done that for you, out of nothing more than consideration, give me the address of the store and I'll pop in and ask them to remove it as I don't like pigs.

What do you recommend, jumping up and down first, or a quiet word?

OK will do. Quiet word first always works best for reinstatement of pigs on till rolls. Jump up and down after. Address is Tesco Express, Caledonian Road...
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #136 on: December 20, 2005, 11:42:50 pm »
Maybe what Tesco's should have done was contact the Muslim community and see if they "really" took offence.

If the "majority" of Muslims take no offense, then why should a company change something because one ( or some) individuals say "it's offensive"?

If Tesco's has had the pig on their receipts for years and have no or few registered complaints..wouldn't that indicate that Muslims in general do not take offense?

But now that it's out in the open, the clear thing to do is "ask" Muslim leadership....

And quit having everyone else try to impose their thoughts and beliefs on an issue that doesn't concern them.
------------------------

I'll give you a different example from the USA.

Sports teams have nicknames. There are some people campaigning that teams shouldn't be named after anything to do with Indians. ( it's racialist and demeaning)

Some schools have bowed down to pressure and changed..Stanford Indians are now the Stanford "Cardinals".

The NCAA ( or the FA as it were) decided all schools should change their Indian names and that any school that doesn't will not be allowed to partake in the post season tournaments and bring their Mascots or any other "indian" logo with them.

Even though some Indian groups or  tribes have ok'd the names and do not take offense. like the Florida State Seminoles. Even though the Seminole Tribe have repeatedly said they believe that Florida State portrays their Indian heritage as something honorable..the NCAA would have none of it. Well until recently. Now it's up for discussion again and maybe there will be a compromize with all kinds of red tape approvals first.

All it takes is some "pressure" group to badger and protest even though the "majority" may not object..but he who scream loudest usually gets their way when it comes to alledged predjudice and racism....
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Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #137 on: December 21, 2005, 12:11:18 am »
Cool. I believe from the other thread that it may be somewhere in London. So I'll try to pop in at Chelsea away. Unless someone beats me to it  ;)

On a (only slightly) more serious note. I have no argument with the fellah about asking for it to be removed if it offended him. I have no argument with Tesco for removing it either.

What I do believe, and its only my opinion of course, is that Tesco did not remove the till roll out of pure compassion. I believe they saw what might have been a case of them being perceived as being unsympathetic towards their Muslim customers. And in todays culture of everyone looking over their shoulder in case they are perceived as offending ANYBODY, they took the easiest option, probably hoping nobody would notice, let alone leak it to the newspapers.

As for only seeing self interest in others? Well, surely bowing to this,
Quote
annoying fucker
s demands as its the
Quote
line of least resistance
is not showing consideration towards the fellah, or his beliefs. Its merely them serving their own self interests.

Maybe I am being cynical in questioning their reasons. Although that hardly qualifies you to class me as inconsiderate, existing in a shitty world, and only seeing self interest in everybody.

All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #138 on: December 21, 2005, 12:12:29 am »
quite interesting point there 4pool. current employment legislation in the uk is very clear that any changes that could be made should be made if anything could be perceived as discriminatory. for eg if a muslim was offered a job and part of the role was to do friday afternoons on a rota basis reasonable adjustments should be made. ie you cannot force the person to work the rota'd shift, as long as they did their hours. when i first heard this i was shocked. but having had a chance since to think about it it makes sense. if a person who happens to be in a wheelchair is best for a job reasonable adjustments should be made.

and i think the main thing i learnt from this is the idea that practices may not be overtly racist or prejudiced but can be implicitly bigotted and that it is important to prevent any discrimination at all.

and you know what - sometimes us minorities have to scream and shout to get heard!
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #139 on: December 21, 2005, 12:30:41 am »
btw Saph....i'll still sit with ya'.... :wave
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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #140 on: December 21, 2005, 02:24:12 am »
fab! but that'd involve me making it to a game! lol! hope you and portland red are ok :)
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Offline 4pool

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2005, 03:59:09 am »
Portland Red has done his knee...meniscus. Won't have surgery until January due to swelling.
Save us a seat for next season as it's more likely we'll be back next fall....


Normal thread can resume now.. ;D  :wave

Oh and Merry Christmas from both of us...
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Offline Millsee

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #142 on: December 22, 2005, 10:44:33 am »
Nelson: "Order the signal, Hardy."

Hardy: "Aye, aye sir."

Nelson: "Hold on, that's not what I dictated to the signal officer.
What's the meaning of this?"

Hardy: "Sorry sir?"

Nelson (reading aloud): "'England expects every person to do his duty,
regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or
disability'. What gobbledygook is this?"

Hardy: "Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal opportunities
employer now. We had the devil's own job getting 'England' past the
censors, lest it be considered racist."

Nelson: " Damn it, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

Hardy: "Sorry sir. All naval vessels have been designated smoke-free
working environments."

Nelson: "In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the main
brace to steel the men before battle."

Hardy: "The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. It's part of the
government's policy on binge drinking."

Nelson: "Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it...
full speed ahead."

Hardy: "I think you'll find that there's a four-knot speed limit in this
stretch of water."

Nelson: "Damn it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in
history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest
please."

Hardy: "That won't be possible, sir."

Nelson: "What?"

Hardy: "Health and safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No harness.
And they said that rope ladder doesn't meet regulations. They won't let
anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected."

Nelson: "Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."

Hardy: "He's busy knocking up wheelchair access to the fo'c'sle
Admiral."

Nelson: "Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

Hardy: "Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier-free
environment for the differently abled."

Nelson: "Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse
even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral
by playing the disability card."

Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under-represented in
the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

Nelson: "Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

Hardy: "A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't let
the crew up the rigging without hard hats. And they don't want anyone
breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

Nelson: "I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the
men to stand by to engage the enemy."

Hardy: "The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

Nelson: "What? This is mutiny."

Hardy: "It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being
charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There are a couple of
legal-aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

Nelson: "Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"

Hardy: "Actually, sir, we're not."

Nelson: "We're not?"

Hardy: "No, sir. The Frenchies and the Spanish are our European partners
now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in
this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation."

Nelson: "But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

Hardy: "I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you saying
that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary."

Nelson: "You must consider every man an enemy who speaks ill of your
King."

Hardy: "Not any more. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age.
Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules."

Nelson: "Don't tell me - health and safety. Whatever happened to rum,
sodomy and the lash?"

Hardy: "As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu. And there's a ban on
corporal punishment."

Nelson: "What about sodomy?"

Hardy: "I believe it's to be encouraged, sir."

Nelson: "Well then... kiss me, Hardy!"

Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #143 on: December 22, 2005, 11:41:27 am »
 ;D  ;D
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Bandy

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #144 on: December 23, 2005, 08:21:41 am »
Are Tesco's a piggy in the middle here?
And it was all going so well

Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #145 on: December 23, 2005, 10:24:02 am »
Are Tesco's a piggy in the middle here?


They're not even a piggy at the bottom anymore  ;D
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.

Offline Bandy

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #146 on: December 30, 2005, 02:03:37 pm »
They're not even a piggy at the bottom anymore  ;D

Are you allowed to say 'bottom' anymore?

And it was all going so well

Offline blert596

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Re: Politically Correct Debate. What is acceptable today ?
« Reply #147 on: December 31, 2005, 01:43:47 am »
OO errr missus  :P
All the badge kissing in the world don't make up for the fact that they are, frankly, not Liverpool Football Club. It's not their fault. Its just how it is.