Topic: China to invest $280 billion in Iran

[great power rising]

More than half of Iran's GDP. Looks like another death knell to American dollar hegemony

China is planning to invest $280 billion in Iran’s oil, gas, and petrochemical sectors that are being affected by US sanctions, according to Petroleum Economist magazine.

The energy affairs magazine quoted a senior source who was linked to the Iranian Oil Ministry, as stating that this enormous investment represents a key point in a new agreement between the two countries. This was confirmed during Iranian foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif’s visit to China in late August, to present a roadmap for the strategic comprehensive partnership agreement, which concluded in 2016.

According to the magazine, Beijing also pledged to invest $120 billion in Iran’s oil sector and industrial infrastructure.

This vast amount will be disbursed during the first five years of the agreement’s entry into implementation, with possible additional investments in subsequent similar periods, if both parties agree.

In return, Iran will grant Chinese companies the priority right to participate in tenders for any new, frozen or incomplete projects to develop oil and gas fields, as well as all petrochemical projects, including the provision of technology and staff to implement these projects.

This comprises the deployment of up to 5,000 Chinese security officers in Iranian territories to secure Chinese projects, as well as the involvement of other staff and resources in securing oil, gas or petrochemical exports from Iran to China, including those across the Gulf, the source explained.

Opinion: Are the US and Iran playing the same game?

The agreement also permits China to purchase oil, gas and petrochemical products at low prices, with the right to delay the payment of these prices for two years in the Chinese national currency (Yuan) or other “easy currencies” with which Beijing makes profits, through its projects in Africa and the former Soviet republics, without resorting to transactions in USD.

According to the source, this agreement grants China a total discount of around 32 per cent on all oil, gas, and petrochemical products from Iran.

This plan also emerged during the course of China’s “One Belt, One Road” initiative, in which Beijing intends to take advantage of the low-cost labour force available in Iran, to establish factories to be supervised by Chinese prominent companies.

In return, the new agreement enables Tehran to strengthen its partnership with Beijing, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, and raise the level of production in three of its largest oil and gas fields, in addition to China’s approval to increase the volume of oil imports from Iran.

The source stressed that the main points of the new agreement will not be publicly announced, although they represent a significant shift in the balance of power in the world’s oil and gas sectors.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190907-a-blow-to-washington-china-to-invest-280-billion-in-iranian-sectors-targeted-by-sanctions/

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

In theory it's a great move from China (for China of course, that goes without saying on most things they do!), and you look at how shit the US system of government is - permitting the possibility to both elect and keep in power for years a mentally defective moron - reducing reliance on the USD should be a target for every country on the planet, that's just prudent management. Due to how world events have played out for roughly the past 2 centuries we're at a point where too much power / influence on world affairs is in the hands of one country that has clearly shown that it is unfit to have that power. If it's split into two it's possibly better for the rest of us, but in terms of what you control, then clearly less reliance on the USD is critical.

China hasn't always been great though in terms of execution on a number of their better initiatives.

[BarryCrocker]

Iran will end up owing China money and therefore have to start paying rent on their own country and infrastructure.

China is the uber-loan shark of the modern world.

[kavah]

These are interesting times in terms of geo-politics. Chinese investment in Africa and the Caribbean is massive too and growing in South America.

looking at GDPs on wiki, it's probably not great strategy to be jumping out of the EU. I'm sure our single aircraft carrier with no planes will keep us safe.

USA $21,344.667M
EU $18,705,132M
China $14,216,503M
...

UK $2,829,163M

[Red Beret]

Hahaha! Let's see The Donald get in Iran's face now. His stupid fucking attitude has driven Iran into the arms of one of America's biggest competitors.

[stewil007]

These are interesting times in terms of geo-politics. Chinese investment in Africa and the Caribbean is massive too and growing in South America.

looking at GDPs on wiki, it's probably not great strategy to be jumping out of the EU. I'm sure our single aircraft carrier with no planes will keep us safe.

USA $21,344.667M
EU $18,705,132M
China $14,216,503M
...

UK $2,829,163M

not to pick out the important bit, but we have 2 aircraft carriers.

[Red-Soldier]

Iran will end up owing China money and therefore have to start paying rent on their own country and infrastructure.

China is the uber-loan shark of the modern world.

They've been systematically screwing up Africa and Australasia for years, I guess they fancy some action in the Middle East now.

[boots]

not to pick out the important bit, but we have 2 aircraft carriers.

and they have 1. Which was made in china.

[Gnurglan]

Hahaha! Let's see The Donald get in Iran's face now. His stupid fucking attitude has driven Iran into the arms of one of America's biggest competitors.

Yes. That's the problem with his bully in the schoolyard mentality. He drives his opponents towards each other. Instead of teaming up against China, he has ensured that Russia and China are closer. He had a deal with Iran, but now he's lost them to that group as well. I believe that will be his legacy. The man who lost the allies.

[great power rising]

not to pick out the important bit, but we have 2 aircraft carriers.

and they have 1. Which was made in china.

I believe the UK has one with one in construction. When the other one is completed China will have three and 5 more in the works.

The second point is a joke. It smacks of western cultural arrogance that something manufacture in China is somehow lesser. These guys have built a 5th gen aircraft that only the USA has managed to reliably produce.

Also the aircraft carrier they are currently using was bought from Russia not built by China

[great power rising]

I'm also yet to be convinced of neo-colonialist accusations. Supposedly, it is obvious and yet nation after nation are signing  to the Chinese OBOR program.

A thirty percent discount will still generate substantial revenues for the Iranian government not to mention that subsidy doesn't hold for selling outside of China. Considering this is the last decade Iran has before the switch to electric to monetize their resources it makes sense from a selfish point of view not necessarily a global POV

[J_Kopite]

I'm also yet to be convinced of neo-colonialist accusations.

I for one am truly surprised.

[classycarra]

Also the aircraft carrier they are currently using was bought from Russia not built by China

That's worse

China would probably be better off just trying to replicate the plans of all the intellectual property it's been hacking from Europe and the States

[So… Howard Philips]

So the Islamic Republic of Iran has sold their soul to a country which is systematically repressing the Uigher muslims?

Sorry that should read "re educating ".

[great power rising]

That's worse

China would probably be better off just trying to replicate the plans of all the intellectual property it's been hacking from Europe and the States

Russian stuff is top class even if they are getting slightly left behind now. Certainly far superior to anything coming from Europe

If the Chinese rail gun trials were accurate then they are ahead of the USA in some aspects already

Their ballistic missiles have already formed a line of no entry to the USA almost upto Taiwan and the next generation is projected to bring Guam within their sights.

[Elmo!]

Russian stuff is top class even if they are getting slightly left behind now. Certainly far superior to anything coming from Europe

If the Chinese rail gun trials were accurate then they are ahead of the USA in some aspects already

Their ballistic missiles have already formed a line of no entry to the USA almost upto Taiwan and the next generation is projected to bring Guam within their sights.

Kuznetsov commissioned in 1990. Problems plagued the ship from the beginning. One of Kuznetsov’s major weaknesses is her lack of catapults for launching her fighters. Another is her powerplant. The vessel is powered by steam turbines and turbo-pressurized boilers that Defense Industry Daily generously described as “defective.”

Her pipes are bad. “When it’s this cold, water freezes everywhere including pipes which may cause a rupture,” English Russia reported. “To prevent this, they just don’t supply almost 60 percent of the cabins with water (neither in winter nor in summer). The situation with latrines is just as bad. The ship has over 50 latrines [for 1,900 crew] but half of them are closed.”

Kuznetsov rarely goes to sea and conducted just six patrols between 1991 and 2015. During a 2016 mission off of Syria, the ship’s air wing lost two jets in just three weeks.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-needs-head-scrap-yard-experts-65956

The Chinese aircraft carrier is the sister ship of the Kuznetsov...

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Certainly far superior to anything coming from Europe 

[great power rising]

Yes, the Americans are known for accurate reporting when it comes to the Russians. The same guys who claimed the F-86
was untouchable till they got creamed by mig-21. Russian equipment is so bad somehow it outperformed its American counterparts in Syria.

Australia seems to understand the rapidly changing scenario:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-19/china-could-crush-some-u-s-military-assets-in-hours

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Yes, the Americans are known for accurate reporting when it comes to the Russians. The same guys who claimed the F-86
was untouchable till they got creamed by mig-21. Russian equipment is so bad somehow it outperformed its American counterparts in Syria.

Australia seems to understand the rapidly changing scenario:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-19/china-could-crush-some-u-s-military-assets-in-hours

The Kuznetsov is renowned for being a turkey.

[Elmo!]

Yes, the Americans are known for accurate reporting when it comes to the Russians. The same guys who claimed the F-86
was untouchable till they got creamed by mig-21. Russian equipment is so bad somehow it outperformed its American counterparts in Syria.

Australia seems to understand the rapidly changing scenario:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-19/china-could-crush-some-u-s-military-assets-in-hours

We're talking about aircraft carriers, not aircraft. Have you got anything specific to dispute about the article or just attack the source without evidence?

[west_london_red]

Yes, the Americans are known for accurate reporting when it comes to the Russians. The same guys who claimed the F-86
was untouchable till they got creamed by mig-21. Russian equipment is so bad somehow it outperformed its American counterparts in Syria.

Australia seems to understand the rapidly changing scenario:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-19/china-could-crush-some-u-s-military-assets-in-hours

The Mig 21 was significantly newer then then F86 so no surprise it was creamed.

It was a Mig 21 that Pakistan shot down in that bungled Indian air raid earlier this year right?

[classycarra]

The Chinese aircraft carrier is the sister ship of the Kuznetsov...

"Top class"

The lack of an argument and Australia whataboutery is hilarious to read

[great power rising]

The Mig 21 was significantly newer then then F86 so no surprise it was creamed.

It was a Mig 21 that Pakistan shot down in that bungled Indian air raid earlier this year right?

Tell that to the Americans who opened up a smear campaign not unlike the one quoted above. Of course it sells well within the West. China is so technologically deficient they have somehow surged a year ahead of the West in 5g technology and the west are now fabricating claims of spying a charge denied by fellow NATO member germany. All I see is hurr durr made in china, Russia. Comical really!

No aircraft was show down in the terrorist raid, it was only shot down in the illegal incursion of the Indian border that occurred after where army facilities were targeted and certainly not by F-86 lol. But then, if one spends their time with 'peaceful' protestors and terrorist sympathisers taking advantage of 'freedom to protest' to stone the Indian embassy and run away then would probably regurgitate the Pakistani propaganda line

[classycarra]

All I see is hurr durr made in china, Russia. Comical really!

You ignored some more nuanced criticisms than that above, and indulged in some whataboutery and transparently moved the goalposts from aircraft carriers to missiles.

You're very bad at arguing, which is a shame for us all.

[west_london_red]

Tell that to the Americans who opened up a smear campaign not unlike the one quoted above. Of course it sells well within the West. China is so technologically deficient they have somehow surged a year ahead of the West in 5g technology and the west are now fabricating claims of spying a charge denied by fellow NATO member germany. All I see is hurr durr made in china, Russia. Comical really!

No aircraft was show down in the terrorist raid, it was only shot down in the illegal incursion of the Indian border that occurred after where army facilities were targeted and certainly not by F-86 lol. But then, if one spends their time with 'peaceful' protestors and terrorist sympathisers taking advantage of 'freedom to protest' to stone the Indian embassy and run away then would probably regurgitate the Pakistani propaganda line

As usual I have no idea what your going on about. How’s the 5g reception in the Uyghur ‘re-education’ camps?

So the Indian plane was shot down in incursion into India but somehow the plane and the pilot ended up in Pakistan? Anyway, the point was more why they are using such an aged plane when they much more modern ones. No idea what your on about with that last line either, someone can have a different view then your own without being subject to Pakistani propaganda - which is the usual Indian propaganda line when someone points out their own flaws - people can think for themselves.

Just to add, I don’t think anyone has actually accused China of using Huawei of spying on anyone, it’s more the possibility that they could do it in the future, nor am I blind to the fact that Huawei’s competitors are American and they stand to lose out from Huawei’s success.

[great power rising]

Not surprising, is the uighur even relevant to the technological

You ignored some more nuanced criticisms than that above, and indulged in some whataboutery and transparently moved the goalposts from aircraft carriers to missiles.

You're very bad at arguing, which is a shame for us all.

"nuanced criticism", if I saw any I would have engaged

As usual I have no idea what your going on about. How’s the 5g reception in the Uyghur ‘re-education’ camps?

So the Indian plane was shot down in incursion into India but somehow the plane and the pilot ended up in Pakistan? Anyway, the point was more why they are using such an aged plane when they much more modern ones. No idea what your on about with that last line either, someone can have a different view then your own without being subject to Pakistani propaganda - which is the usual Indian propaganda line when someone points out their own flaws - people can think for themselves.

Just to add, I don’t think anyone has actually accused China of using Huawei of spying on anyone, it’s more the possibility that they could do it in the future, nor am I blind to the fact that Huawei’s competitors are American and they stand to lose out from Huawei’s success.

Funny you're accusing me of being all over the place when you needlessly being the re-education camps into it. Pot meet kettle. What's funnier than that is none of the Muslim states actually seem to care about the uighurs considering their silence and imran khan's comical ranting and raving over kashmir sounded even more comical when he claimed "he hadn't heard anything about xinjang" when pushed on it.

Ironically, the thing you are questioning is the one thing agreed upon by both sides, during the chase to remove the fighters from Indian airspace the Mig was shot down near the line of control with the pilot ejecting but landing up on the other side. Might want to read the time line of events before getting something so comically wrong and "thinking for yourself".

[classycarra]

"nuanced criticism", if I saw any I would have engaged

I said "more nuanced", bit desperate if you're already resorting to misquoting.

You suggested China's Russian aircraft carrier was top class, then shit out of a discussion when your claim was amusingly debunked

[great power rising]

"amusingly debunked" by an opinion piece with more than one questionable sources.

Sure, happy to concede the Russians don't know how to build jack!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

"amusingly debunked" by an opinion piece with more than one questionable sources.

Sure, happy to concede the Russians don't know how to build jack!

So you're refusing to acknowledge that the Kuznetsov is and always has been a pile of junk ?


It's not a fucking secret.

[west_london_red]

Not surprising, is the uighur even relevant to the technological
"nuanced criticism", if I saw any I would have engaged

Funny you're accusing me of being all over the place when you needlessly being the re-education camps into it. Pot meet kettle. What's funnier than that is none of the Muslim states actually seem to care about the uighurs considering their silence and imran khan's comical ranting and raving over kashmir sounded even more comical when he claimed "he hadn't heard anything about xinjang" when pushed on it.

Ironically, the thing you are questioning is the one thing agreed upon by both sides, during the chase to remove the fighters from Indian airspace the Mig was shot down near the line of control with the pilot ejecting but landing up on the other side. Might want to read the time line of events before getting something so comically wrong and "thinking for yourself".

Well if your going to bring up the advances of a country don’t be surprised if people will also raise some of its shortcomings. That’s what happens on a forum.

And there’s probably a good reason why Pakistan among others isn’t raising China’s treatment of its Muslims, they seem to be investing quite a bit in Pakistan and even issued a joint statement on Kashmir today I believe. But just because other Muslim countries turn a blind eye to human rights abuses that doesn’t mean the rest of us should.

[classycarra]

"amusingly debunked" by an opinion piece with more than one questionable sources.

Amusing again, thanks. You trash opinion pieces when you so recently posted the opinion of one university think tank to support a wildly hyperbolic generalisation about the Australian state.

Sure, happy to concede the Russians don't know how to build jack!

Are you twelve? Teenagers don't even resort to this pettiness to avoid admitting their mistakes.

[Max_powers]

Not surprising, is the uighur even relevant to the technological
"nuanced criticism", if I saw any I would have engaged

Funny you're accusing me of being all over the place when you needlessly being the re-education camps into it. Pot meet kettle. What's funnier than that is none of the Muslim states actually seem to care about the uighurs considering their silence and imran khan's comical ranting and raving over kashmir sounded even more comical when he claimed "he hadn't heard anything about xinjang" when pushed on it.

This is exactly the neo-colonialism you were talking about. China has invested heavily in a lot of these countries. It has major trade leverage. It also supplies weapons and surveillance technologies that they use to subject their own people. In return these countries have to fall in line. They don't criticize China because they can't do it. That's just one aspect of it.

[losCHUNK]

Tell that to the Americans who opened up a smear campaign not unlike the one quoted above. Of course it sells well within the West. China is so technologically deficient they have somehow surged a year ahead of the West in 5g technology and the west are now fabricating claims of spying a charge denied by fellow NATO member germany. All I see is hurr durr made in china, Russia. Comical really!

No aircraft was show down in the terrorist raid, it was only shot down in the illegal incursion of the Indian border that occurred after where army facilities were targeted and certainly not by F-86 lol. But then, if one spends their time with 'peaceful' protestors and terrorist sympathisers taking advantage of 'freedom to protest' to stone the Indian embassy and run away then would probably regurgitate the Pakistani propaganda line

Dude, the mig21 was a full generation newer.  The Sabre had 10 kills for every 1 loss in the Korean war - this is negating other factors but apparently we're not considering things like pilot training or ground support.

A fairer competition would be the Starfighter, but, despite being a more even fight the Americans still had the Phantom which was later replaced by the F15.

Also, idk how you can call that Russian boat as advanced at any point during its lifetime.   Its sister gets escorted by tugboats and is so crap was considered for decommission after a crane fell on it.

[Gnurglan]

Will be interesting to see how China plan to pay for it. The more I learn, the more it seems China are in some serious problems with their economy.

[classycarra]

Also, idk how you can call that Russian boat as advanced at any point during its lifetime.   Its sister gets escorted by tugboats and is so crap was considered for decommission after a crane fell on it.

I'm not sure where he's gone, can only assume he's on a Russian laptop

[jason67]

Seems to be a lot of negative news stories about Iran at the moment, more than usual.

If I was one of those cynical twats I would think that they're being highlighted a bit too often.