Author Topic: The LibDems are slightly less f*cked thread  (Read 33315 times)

Offline Red Beret

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The LibDems are slightly less f*cked thread
« on: December 5, 2012, 03:10:01 pm »
It was suggested on the Tory barstards thread so I figured I'd make one.

Somebody should try to remind Cleggy that being in a coalition isn't simply about rubber stamping everything the big party tells you too. 
« Last Edit: September 8, 2019, 06:56:48 pm by Red Berry »
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #1 on: December 5, 2012, 04:10:19 pm »
One thing they have done is making sure the low paid got tax cuts.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #2 on: December 5, 2012, 04:17:02 pm »
The Lib Dems may have fucked their own chances, but they have tempered the plans of the Tories. Horrible as it is to contemplate, if they did not need the Lib Dems, it would be a lot worse.

It does not absolve them from blame for what they have supported, but the cartoon villain caricature doesn't wash.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #3 on: December 5, 2012, 04:44:53 pm »
For me they sold out most of what i thought they stood for for a brief glimpse of power, and maybe for the top boys even money they get for a cabinet post, i think next election they will be hated far more than the Tories, because they propped up this Government, I hope they disintegrate as a party and rebuild it back to the true ethical party it was.

Thanks for starting this guys.
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Offline ghost1359

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #4 on: December 5, 2012, 04:51:40 pm »
Lost all faith in them the minute they started banging on about how much Labour wanted to spend on trident in the run up to the election. Wouldn't of been so bad if it weren't for the fact they were planning on spending 3 times as much, nothing like concealing the truth is there?
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #5 on: December 5, 2012, 05:01:10 pm »
The Lib Dems may have fucked their own chances, but they have tempered the plans of the Tories. Horrible as it is to contemplate, if they did not need the Lib Dems, it would be a lot worse.

It does not absolve them from blame for what they have supported, but the cartoon villain caricature doesn't wash.

We have a lot to be thankful for the Lib Dems and for their demanding certain concessions to be part of the coalition. Yes, they've probably shot themselves in the foot as regards to re-election bids but for some of their party it might well have been worth it to get those things done which otherwise they'd never be able to pass in a million years.

I'm sure even the simplest one where they demanded the base tax allowance rise so high and so quickly is a huge bonus for the less well off parts of our society and deserves respect.

Offline gamble

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #6 on: December 5, 2012, 05:17:30 pm »
I voted Lib Dem in the last election, cannot see a reason to vote for them again. They completely sold out. How on earth are they going to campaign in 2015 against the tories who they stood side by side with? at least clegg will be gone after their seats are decimated.

Offline MrEazi1

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #7 on: December 5, 2012, 05:41:06 pm »
The Lib Dems did persuade the Tories to not press ahead with plans to remove benefit entitlements for the under-25s or to cap benefits for families with more than two or three children. I would much rather they did not prop up a Tory government but what were their choices ?

First choice - a Tory/Lib Dem coalition. They would have a majority in the Commons in order to pass legislation. The Tories unfortunately had the largest number of seats.

Second choice - a Labour/Lib Dem coalition. Both parties still would not have a working majority in the Commons. This would not work without the support of all the other minor parties in a 'rainbow coalition', which would have been unstable, divided and would not have secured the confidence of the markets. I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is probably more likely in 2015 if a hung parliament emerges and Labour are the largest party.

Third choice - a Tory minority government. This would have again been a weak setup, and legislation would not be able to pass in the Commons.

Where the Lib Dems did 'sell out' was over the tuition fees debacle. How the Lib Dems did not see that coming - in the autumn of 2009 a hung parliament was predicted, and the Browne Report was always going to propose an increase in fees. Even Danny Alexander told Clegg that it was a promise that they couldn't keep, so why sign those NUS pledges ? Utter madness and shows the Lib Dems' political naivety.

The Conservatives have played a clever game, the Lib Dems have practically been a human shield for them to deflect criticism of their austerity measures. The right-wing press are firmly in the pockets of Tory HQ, Labour have their backers in the media, the Lib Dems don't have anyone's backing. Not to mention the daft First Past The Post voting system that does not allow the representation of smaller parties, and maintains this two party monopoly on British politics.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #8 on: December 5, 2012, 06:02:29 pm »
The Lib Dems were slowly building themselves up to a point were they were not only a valid third part, but could have become the main party of opposition.  But that wouldn't have happened during Clegg's political career; it seems he wanted it all now and wasn't prepared to wait.  By putting his own ambitions ahead of his party's, he's likely set them back 25 years.  I full expect to see their seats drop to mid-teens figures in 2015.
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Offline Big Red Richie

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #9 on: December 5, 2012, 06:10:33 pm »
As someone who voted for them twice out of the last three general/local elections, all I can say is that they're dead to me.

Clegg has put that party back a generation.  No swing voter is ever going to trust them again.


They were becoming a viable third party, and coming up on the rails of the main two.  Not now.



I don't really blame them for the power grab, but once in a position of power, to go back on your word or the things that you campaigned for is unforgivable.

To be bullied by Cameron, and kowtow to the Tories is simply spineless.

Offline Lusty

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #10 on: December 5, 2012, 09:26:35 pm »
Embarrasing watching Clegg have to sit there while George 'Shit Autocorrect' Osborne stands up and shits all over his mansion tax.  How much of a political lightweight do you have to be for Ed fucking Milliband to be pointing and laughing at you?

Amazing how far his stock has fallen since the election.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #11 on: December 5, 2012, 09:33:23 pm »

The only thing more naive than the Lib Dem politicians appear to have been the people who voted for them.

What did you expect? The purpose of politics is to exercise power.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #12 on: December 5, 2012, 10:01:54 pm »

What did you expect? The purpose of politics is to exercise power.

But it's also about keeping it, no? It's probably going to take the Lib Dems years to recover from this so it's like shooting yourself in the foot really.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #13 on: December 5, 2012, 10:34:01 pm »
Clegg believed his own hype after the debates,  then sold out to the nasty party. It was all supposed to be a pragmatic coalition concentrating on deficit reduction. Then whoops,  here comes the ideological NHS/schools/universal credit decisions that the Lib Dems went along with. They may have tempered some of the Nasty Party desires yet there was always the serious option of collapsing the Coalition. Instead, they've accepted crumbs from the Tory table. What will they be able to put on their election manifesto?

Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #14 on: December 5, 2012, 10:35:05 pm »
Lib Dems have been totally played by a superior and more experienced political animal.  The Tories would have done everything they've done (and more) without the Lib Dems.  For pretty much the first 2 years the Tories have successfully deflected attention onto their smaller partners.  So more people blame them for letting the Tories get away with all this shit, than blamed the Tories for doing it.

That's pretty much as nice as I can get about the Lib Dems.  That and the fact they have slowly pushed up the initial tax amount to near £10k.

The Lib Dems are a complete joke.  Like a rabbit caught in headlights.  They had the chance to be a true coalition partner, but rather than look at how it's done in countries were it's successful they sold their soul for a sniff of power.  That's if you believe they actually had a soul to begin with.

I voted for them because I consider myself pretty liberal and hoped that if we ever got a coalition they would try to do some good.  Getting the start point for the basic rate of tax up to £10k means nothing when the money is being stolen back in other ways.

The saddest thing from a political situation is that people have turned to right wing parties (like UKIP) as the alternative, meaning that there really isn't a decent left-leaning alternative anymore (unless you believe Labour will return to their roots).

Offline smig

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #15 on: December 5, 2012, 10:40:55 pm »
I can see Clegg jumping ship and joining the Tories after the next election, the chancer that he is.
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Offline helmboy_nige

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #16 on: December 5, 2012, 10:41:56 pm »
I can see Clegg jumping ship and joining the Tories after the next election, the chancer that he is.

It's that or a peerage or a return to the european parliament.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #17 on: December 5, 2012, 10:54:54 pm »
But it's also about keeping it, no? It's probably going to take the Lib Dems years to recover from this so it's like shooting yourself in the foot really.

I'm not sure - if they hadn't opted for the joining in the coalition they would have been out of power for years anyway.

The choice was a no-brainer.

The only difficulty is that lots of their policies were asked on the assumption that they would never be in power - ie pie-in-the-sky bullshit that people could get a warm glow voting for.

Personally I found it quite funny watching them back-peddle as soon as the stark realities of power became apparent.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #18 on: December 6, 2012, 05:41:16 am »
Ah you’ve really got to feel for them though. After all those years of waiting for that almost freakish mathematical opportunity to arise, it finally came. And after the final vote had been counted and the frenzied bargaining took place and the hours turned to days, it finally dawned on them – they were faced with three choices, three different ways of committing suicide.
1   Side with the tories and alienate the vast bulk of your voters.
2   Side with Labour and be castigated by the general public’s sense of fair play for backing the losers.
3   Don’t back either and be ridiculed by the world for chickening-out when your big day came.
And since they chose the chauffer driven route, the much touted skills of Clegg, the ace negotiator, schooled in Europe in the dark arts – smoke trading in those horse-filled rooms,  or whatever it is – have turned out to be a tad inaccurate. That boy has played a really, really weak hand.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #19 on: December 6, 2012, 11:00:07 am »
got an email from that Alexander nodding dog at the treasury guy yesterday so i replied dont think i will get anymore from him.
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Offline Libertine

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #20 on: December 6, 2012, 11:07:11 am »
Ah you’ve really got to feel for them though. After all those years of waiting for that almost freakish mathematical opportunity to arise, it finally came. And after the final vote had been counted and the frenzied bargaining took place and the hours turned to days, it finally dawned on them – they were faced with three choices, three different ways of committing suicide.
1   Side with the tories and alienate the vast bulk of your voters.
2   Side with Labour and be castigated by the general public’s sense of fair play for backing the losers.
3   Don’t back either and be ridiculed by the world for chickening-out when your big day came.
And since they chose the chauffer driven route, the much touted skills of Clegg, the ace negotiator, schooled in Europe in the dark arts – smoke trading in those horse-filled rooms,  or whatever it is – have turned out to be a tad inaccurate. That boy has played a really, really weak hand.


The 3rd option would have involved more than just ridicule IMO. The Tory minority government would have probably only lasted a year after which they would have gone to the country, argued we need a stable government and as Labour is still in a mess, we're the only party to provide it. With strong media backing, I'd be very surprised if they didn't get a majority under those circumstances. And now we'd have a Tory government unencumbered by coalition agreements doing whatever they pleased. Of course the Lib Dems would have maintained their ideological purity in opposition and probably would have gone up in the polls. But that would be of no benefit to the people suffering under majority Tory rule.

Politics is about doing, not saying. There's no point in being in opposition ad infinitum and just criticising from the sides. Not saying they have played this brilliantly - they've clearly shown their inexperience with power and probably have gone along with a little more than they should have. But at the end of the day, they are the minority partner in coalition - they can't dictate the complete direction of the government.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #21 on: December 6, 2012, 02:16:43 pm »
/snip/

Great post.

Important point is that because the two parties are in coalition people think theyre equal partners - they forget that theres (approx) 300 conservative MPs compared to (approx) 60 Lib Dems. They only need 26 Lib Dem votes so really the impact the minority party could and should have is actually quite small.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #22 on: December 7, 2012, 09:52:20 pm »
watched the Libdem guy on QT he is so far removed from Clegg ideologically and morally it was  unreal, they will get trounced in the next election and then break up, could be time for a gang of four perhaps but in their party this time?
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #23 on: December 8, 2012, 12:19:55 am »
Great post.

Important point is that because the two parties are in coalition people think theyre equal partners - they forget that theres (approx) 300 conservative MPs compared to (approx) 60 Lib Dems. They only need 26 Lib Dem votes so really the impact the minority party could and should have is actually quite small.
So the Libdems have happily volunteered themselves to basically rubber stamp tory policy and for that they should be applauded? I freely admit, I don't know what they should have done - but then again, it's their job to know what they should be doing and if this is it, then they're a bit pointless really aren't they.
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Offline TSC

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #24 on: December 8, 2012, 01:20:43 am »
Biggest result post last election is the fact that the lib dem's are now dead.  Obviously not literally, but in terms of power they're gone.  They're down there with the monster raving loony party.  It's a straight fight between labour & tories.  I doubt lib dems will have any sort of casting vote.  Unless either of the Labour or Tory party need them they'll be seen off into the sunset.

But it's jobs for boys.  Clegg will be given a decent job in the tory party as payback for all his bending over.

Offline Zeb

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #25 on: December 8, 2012, 03:22:59 am »
It's the tears which are pissing me off. They voted through the measures which those of them with an ounce of conscience are now looking at and thinking 'Christ, people don't realise just how much they're going to get hammered next year'. It does absolutely no use any of those who voted for the Tories ideological agenda masquerading as economic necessity to turn around now and say 'oh but we couldn't help it' and looking sadly around their constituency as they see people being pushed through the holes they've helped cut out of the safety net. They could have said 'no'. If you have any fucking principles, you don't trade them in for a jag and a police escort through rush hour.

There's some deeply unhappy people in the Lib Dems, people I used to respect a lot, but who are staying absolutely silent apart from the odd muted yelps. Speak up or fuck off really, because sympathy come April will do no-one any good. Well done on not making a load of under 25s homeless and removing any safety net for those whose mummy and daddy can't get them on the housing ladder though. Was that seriously up for discussion? Do the alarm bells not ring a little bit? Not even a little? It doesn't wash when they say 'well, we had to let them be twats of the highest order, because otherwise they said they wanted to be utter cnuts'.

That's unforgivable for me because this is Tory vandalism which is fucking the country up for decades to come. Skivers versus strivers ffs. I've voted for them in the past when they've had a chance of beating the Tory candidate in an election and Labour were nowhere close but I don't think that'll happen again.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #26 on: December 8, 2012, 08:17:46 am »
Yes, they are now dead as the third party. Granted, lifting the lower tax threshold is a laudable outcome, but sacrificing the very ethos of the party to hang on to the coat tails of power, reeks of desperation. The sense of pathos the emanates every time they discuss the 'success' of getting a referendum on changing the voting system is overwhelming. Sound bite politics at its worst. One day Clegg will start screaming and, I fear, find it hard to stop.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #27 on: December 8, 2012, 09:28:54 am »
They may have tempered some of the Nasty Party desires yet there was always the serious option of collapsing the Coalition. Instead, they've accepted crumbs from the Tory table. What will they be able to put on their election manifesto?

Actually, this is the one wrong turn that may outdo them all. They were so set on the idea of fixed Parliaments that they signed up to this for 4 years (?). Now even if they want to collapse the coalition (and I'm sure some would given the chance) they're stuck in this agreement and can't withdraw without losing even more face.

It will be interesting what they do when the agreement expires and how they fight the next election...
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #28 on: December 8, 2012, 02:46:32 pm »
If I remember my history correctly, when the Liberals pulled out of their coalition back in the 70s, Labour soldiered on as a minority government for another year or so.  In the election the Liberals could at least campaign as the Liberals, but how the LibDems hope to campaign against the Tories if they stay in this coalition full term is a mystery to me.

A vote of no confidence could still force an early election, but now I think a certain % of the house needs to vote in favour of the motion.  I'm not sure, but I think that, even if the LDs switched sides and the entire opposition voted against the Tories, unless some Tories switched sides as well Cameron could stay in office. 
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Offline Libertine

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #29 on: December 8, 2012, 04:18:13 pm »
If I remember my history correctly, when the Liberals pulled out of their coalition back in the 70s, Labour soldiered on as a minority government for another year or so.  In the election the Liberals could at least campaign as the Liberals, but how the LibDems hope to campaign against the Tories if they stay in this coalition full term is a mystery to me.

A vote of no confidence could still force an early election, but now I think a certain % of the house needs to vote in favour of the motion.  I'm not sure, but I think that, even if the LDs switched sides and the entire opposition voted against the Tories, unless some Tories switched sides as well Cameron could stay in office. 

My guess would be that sometime in 2014 they'll find an issue that allows them to withdraw from government (ideally something both principled and popular) and join the opposition to a minority Tory government for a few months. They'll hope this allows them to differentiate from the Tories in the public's eyes. A long shot, but it's their best bet.

Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #30 on: December 8, 2012, 04:28:01 pm »
My guess would be that sometime in 2014 they'll find an issue that allows them to withdraw from government (ideally something both principled and popular) and join the opposition to a minority Tory government for a few months. They'll hope this allows them to differentiate from the Tories in the public's eyes. A long shot, but it's their best bet.

But the longer they leave it, the more cynical it will look.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #31 on: December 8, 2012, 04:59:08 pm »
But the longer they leave it, the more cynical it will look.

True, but I can't see a Tory minority government surviving long (doubt they'd pass a budget) and I think the Lib Dems feel they need maximum time to the next election to try to rehabilitate themselves in the public's opinion and allow the anger towards them to fade.

All they've got is bad choices (as they have had since 2010). They just need to find the least bad ones.

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #32 on: December 8, 2012, 05:25:16 pm »
I said before, the LibDems would ironically have wielded more power if they had allowed the Tories to run as a minority government - it would have forced a lot more concessions-wise from Cameron.  Of course he could have called a second election to try and secure a majority, but, from a Lib Dem perspective at least, it would have been more likely to cost Labour seats than them.  Yes, we would have suffered the full brunt of sadistic Tory cuts but politically it made far more sense for the LDs to steer clear.

There's a mentality - even a phobia - in our political circles about what can be perceived to be 'weak government'.  It's aggravated by the fact that our political parties are so polarised now a belief has arisen that the opposition would stonewall everything a minority government tried to do, essentially paralysing the country.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #33 on: December 8, 2012, 05:37:59 pm »
i must have signed something sometime because Cleggy keeps sending me emails this is the latest from his PR team:

This April, one of two things will happen to you. If you earn less than £9,440, you will no longer pay any income tax. If you earn more than that, then you'll be paying £600 less each year than you were in 2010. This is the biggest ever increase in your personal allowance (the amount you can earn before you start paying tax). It means we’re now within a whisker of achieving our manifesto pledge of allowing everyone to earn £10,000 a year tax free - a total tax cut of £700.

I’ve promised myself I won’t use these emails just to broadcast policy wins. You want to hear the inside track on what’s happening in government, not just read the latest press release. But this is one win I’m so proud of I have to shout about it. And I want you to shout about it as well.

We took this big step on income tax at this week’s Autumn Statement on the economy. It wasn’t the top line in the papers - of course not. The big, immediate news was that we are going to have to work even harder than we hoped when we started this coalition government to cut the deficit and get the economy back on track. The difficult truth coming out of the Autumn Statement is that we have to continue to make savings for another few years.

Some people say that’s a reason to give up on the coalition – in my view that’s absurd. It makes the coalition even more essential to provide the strong government Britain needs. Labour left us with a massive mess to clear up and – with the situation in Europe and ongoing problems with the banks – it is proving harder than anyone predicted. The coalition has to pull together strongly for another big push on cutting the deficit and kick starting growth.

So as we sat down at the negotiating table (in the Cabinet Room at Number 10) over the last few months, poring over spreadsheets and economic projections, I focused on one thing above all: if Britain has to be in this difficult situation for even longer, how do we make it bearable for everyone?

For me it’s a simple equation. First: get as much help to hard working families struggling to make ends meet as you can. Second: you cannot balance the books on the backs of the poor – you have to spread the burden across society more fairly. And third: make sure you look to the wealthiest people for an extra contribution so we can prove we really are “in this together”.

So in the negotiations Danny Alexander and I fought longest and hardest to get that tax break for working people. We worked to limit the impact of the next wave of cuts on low income families, ruling out the abolition of child benefit for families with two or more children, and saying we should keep housing benefit for under-25s who need a place to stay. The welfare savings are less than half of the £10 billion cuts first floated. They give people on benefits exactly the same rise as we are giving in pay to nurses, civil servants and everyone else in the public sector.

These were far from easy decisions – we are asking people to make great sacrifices to get our country back on track. We must always be fair in the language we use to describe people on benefits. Many of the people are in work and others are out of work through no fault of their own. When they are being asked to tighten their belts, they should not be demonised too.

Finally, we fought for our party policy of mansion tax. But the Conservatives have an irrational phobia against asking people who live in £2 million plus properties from chipping in a bit more when everyone else is making their contribution. So instead we agreed to ensure the richest pay their fair share by limiting pension tax relief for millionaires and increasing our efforts on tax avoidance.

The end result is this Autumn Statement has taken no more from benefit claimants than it has from the wealthy. I’m certain that wouldn’t have been the case if Danny and I hadn’t been in the room.

It adds up to a fair and balanced package to help us in government plot a course through the next two years. And, more importantly, it puts money back in the pockets of struggling families to help them plot a course through the next two years too.

not sure but i think he is a bit Walter Mitty here. ::)
« Last Edit: December 8, 2012, 05:39:57 pm by geoffstrong »
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #34 on: December 9, 2012, 03:36:29 am »
I will still vote for them at the next election.

I believe in their core sentiments even when it's been diluted by joining the Tories in this government.   

Just imagine what it would be like if the Tories were just running the government right now.
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #35 on: December 9, 2012, 04:25:46 am »
   

Just imagine what it would be like if the Tories were just running the government right now.

Errr......
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #36 on: December 9, 2012, 02:24:30 pm »
So the Libdems have happily volunteered themselves to basically rubber stamp tory policy and for that they should be applauded? I freely admit, I don't know what they should have done - but then again, it's their job to know what they should be doing and if this is it, then they're a bit pointless really aren't they.

Of course they're pointless - they always have been.

They were only there to mop up votes for people who didn't want to vote for the serious parties and give voters a warm glow from the moral high ground knowing none of the policies would ever be enacted.

That's why actually getting into power was the only option they could have taken even if, as you say, it resulted in them rubberstamping a "wet" Tory regime.

At least it now removes the notion that they would have a chance of getting in which is the main reason they were regarded as a "wasted vote".
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2012, 04:30:16 pm »
I don't give any credence to the popular narrative that the Lib Dems are necessarily doomed to electoral oblivion in 2015.  They have been undoubtedly damaged by losing a massive chunk of their social democrat supporters to Labour but I don't believe the conventional wisdom that they are unable to win any of them back before the next election.  UKIP are polling ahead of them at the moment, but this will change between the 2014 Euros and the 2015 election.  In 2015, the Lib Dems will point to certain policies they have got through and will argue that joining the Tories as they did was necessary and right.  If the economy is beginning to recover at that point, they will likely recover a large proportion of their voters.  If not, then they will be in for a very tough election night because lefty voters will vote Labour because of tuition fees or cuts (despite Labour's duplicity on tuition fees and their stated acceptance of the necessity of cuts).
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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2012, 10:38:09 pm »
I don't give any credence to the popular narrative that the Lib Dems are necessarily doomed to electoral oblivion in 2015.  They have been undoubtedly damaged by losing a massive chunk of their social democrat supporters to Labour but I don't believe the conventional wisdom that they are unable to win any of them back before the next election.  UKIP are polling ahead of them at the moment, but this will change between the 2014 Euros and the 2015 election.  In 2015, the Lib Dems will point to certain policies they have got through and will argue that joining the Tories as they did was necessary and right.  If the economy is beginning to recover at that point, they will likely recover a large proportion of their voters.  If not, then they will be in for a very tough election night because lefty voters will vote Labour because of tuition fees or cuts (despite Labour's duplicity on tuition fees and their stated acceptance of the necessity of cuts).


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Re: The LibDems are f*cked thread
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2012, 09:48:51 am »
Hopefully they will put a stop to the snooper charter.
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