Topic: The Irish Politics Thread.

[FlashGordon]

Another thing to note is the good performance all round from left leaning parties in the election. The vote left transfer left campaign really did work well. It was also great to see a total rejection of the far right in the country. The likes of Gemma O'Doherty having a meltdown on twitter on election day was brilliant.

[paulrazor]

Another thing to note is the good performance all round from left leaning parties in the election. The vote left transfer left campaign really did work well. It was also great to see a total rejection of the far right in the country. The likes of Gemma O'Doherty having a meltdown on twitter on election day was brilliant.

i have to see this

she is a weapon

[FlashGordon]

i have to see this

she is a weapon

There's so much shit to sift through on her timeline it's hard to get back far enough to go through it unfortunately.

[paulrazor]

There's so much shit to sift through on her timeline it's hard to get back far enough to go through it unfortunately.

i was hoping youd save me that

she is nuts

[FlashGordon]

i was hoping youd save me that

she is nuts

No I don't have anything saved I was just following it on the day itself.

Yup she's absolutely insane, worse than Frottage and co.

[Macphisto80]

Another thing to note is the good performance all round from left leaning parties in the election. The vote left transfer left campaign really did work well. It was also great to see a total rejection of the far right in the country. The likes of Gemma O'Doherty having a meltdown on twitter on election day was brilliant.

I've only learned about one or two of them via the Youtube comments section of all places. The 'National Party' as they call themselves. Bunch of c*nts the lot of them, and it's so disappointing to hear so called Irish people spew the same bollocks as the likes of Trump and Frottage. New age gutter politics.

[didi shamone]

the €13 billion Apple owe in taxes might be a  fair nest egg to start a social housing boom.
will sinn fein take a bite out of the Apple

That money isn't belonged to Ireland so no.

[FlashGordon]

I've only learned about one or two of them via the Youtube comments section of all places. The 'National Party' as they call themselves. Bunch of c*nts the lot of them, and it's so disappointing to hear so called Irish people spew the same bollocks as the likes of Trump and Frottage. New age gutter politics.

Had a look at some of their tweets, they're attacking Sinn Fein for not being nationalist enough  There's a few bots about as well, this kind of shit is clearly orchestrated.

[Macphisto80]

Had a look at some of their tweets, they're attacking Sinn Fein for not being nationalist enough  There's a few bots about as well, this kind of shit is clearly orchestrated.

It's absolutely mental. This kind of bollocks is everywhere, and the sad thing about it is that people buy it. With risk of sounding arrogant, there are far too many thick people about and that's why it seems to be working. It's pathetic.

On the other hand, there are absolute belters like this:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/sinn-feins-rise-akin-to-that-of-nazis-in-1930s-and-is-a-threat-to-democracy-on-this-island-38940177.html

Ruth can be forgiven though. She's living in her own alternate universe, divorced from all kinds of reality, it seems.

[Ray K]

It's absolutely mental. This kind of bollocks is everywhere, and the sad thing about it is that people buy it. With risk of sounding arrogant, there are far too many thick people about and that's why it seems to be working. It's pathetic.

The one good thing about the election is the National Party/Irexit/Gemma loonies got their arses handed to them.


If the Shinners are intent on a border poll, can they do it before the end of March so that if we beat Slovakia and Norn Iron beat Bosnia then we'll be guaranteed a place in the Euros?

It's what John Delaney would have wanted.

[TSC]

It's absolutely mental. This kind of bollocks is everywhere, and the sad thing about it is that people buy it. With risk of sounding arrogant, there are far too many thick people about and that's why it seems to be working. It's pathetic.

On the other hand, there are absolute belters like this:

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/sinn-feins-rise-akin-to-that-of-nazis-in-1930s-and-is-a-threat-to-democracy-on-this-island-38940177.html

Ruth can be forgiven though. She's living in her own alternate universe, divorced from all kinds of reality, it seems.

Wonder what her views are on the rise of the ERG led Tory party in the UK.

[FlashGordon]

Wonder what her views are on the rise of the ERG led Tory party in the UK.

Fine old chaps to her I'd reckon.

[conman]

David McWilliams podcast was interesting the other night, talking about Sinn Fein and potentially how they could adopt Social Housing.
Below are a few tweets to that point.

https://twitter.com/SamToland/status/1227669636113747970

[kennedy81]

Saw this pop up on Twitter yesterday (tax/spend preferences of party voters).



Were people voting for specific SF policies, or just a general, anti-establishment (dare I say Brexit-esque) desire for some sort of "change"?

Interesting graph. I wonder how much that Green disparity is a reflection of genuine concerns for the environment (so better public transport), or that they're feeling less squeezed economically? Maybe a bit of both.

The SF vote is complex I think, and there's a danger it might be interpreted wrongly, even by SF themselves. For me it was a case of being able to vote left and not feel like I was wasting my vote. And a desire for a genuine opposition, rather than the political stagnation we've had for years.

[mickeydocs]

And just a word on the rebel songs or slogans being said after election, I'm willing to give them a pass as emotions were running high. They need to focus on other things now though. There is some serious talent in the SF ranks and I'm hopeful it is those voices that will be heard loudest.

As has been said elsewhere I don't think people have a problem paying taxes when the services they receive are adequate.

There is no problem paying taxes when taxes are equitable. In Ireland you can pay c.53% taxes while also paying 50 euros to see a GP and having to pay 2-300 euros a year on motor tax. You can pay all that tax yet if you were to lose your job you would be entitled to the same unemployment benefit that those that have never worked are entitled to.

In my life I have been lucky enough to live in a number of countries. While living in Belgium I paid c. 60% tax, yet did not complain: housing was affordable (despite having twice the population of Ireland in a country that is roughly the size of Munster; health insurance for my family and I was 200 euros for the year and gave us access to an incredible health service; child care was tax deductible as were many work related expenses such as mileage/travel to work and dry cleaning; and if I was to lose my job I would have been able to receive up to 70% of my previous pay for the first year of unemployment.

There are very few private secondary schools (private schools really only cater for the expat community in Brussels) and University fees are c. 800 euros for the year. Belgium has four Universities in the Times top 100 Universities. All in all your taxes cover you for many of life's eventualities.

[conman]

That's the dream right there.

[conman]

Changes in effective tax rates as a % of gross salary, under SF, FG and FF manifestos.



Copy/Pasta from Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/f377wf/changes_in_effective_tax_rates_as_a_of_gross/

[mickeydocs]

David McWilliams podcast was interesting the other night, talking about Sinn Fein and potentially how they could adopt Social Housing.
Below are a few tweets to that point.

https://twitter.com/SamToland/status/1227669636113747970

McWilliams has been covering the global housing crisis quite a bit over the past year. Both McWilliams and his co-host have children in their early adulthood that will be affected by the cost of housing.
He has been calling out for a plan to move the Port of Dublin out of Dublin to free up huge tracts of land - a model that Cork is adopting and that has been successfully implemented in Oslo, Barcelona and Copenhagen.
He has also been pushing for a wealth tax to be applied rather than income tax being the de factor income generator for the country. His point is the we reward land and punish ideas - unless the idea belongs to a US multi-national of course.
He has also cited Singapore (I will move there in the Summer) where land is owned by the government and released line with Government policy. Income tax in Singapore is c. 15% (much less if you have four children as I do) yet education and health are world class. Income taxes are low because they want to attract talent. In Ireland we speak about the smart economy but we haven't got a clue what it actually means. We are a tax haven for US tech and life science giants and very little else. The fact the leaving cert hasn't changed too much since I sat the exam back in the days when University matriculation was still an option shows you that there is little guidance coming from the top. Interesting days ahead and the fear of capital fleeing the country is a real concern.

[conman]

McWilliams has been covering the global housing crisis quite a bit over the past year. Both McWilliams and his co-host have children in their early adulthood that will be affected by the cost of housing.
He has been calling out for a plan to move the Port of Dublin out of Dublin to free up huge tracts of land - a model that Cork is adopting and that has been successfully implemented in Oslo, Barcelona and Copenhagen.
He has also been pushing for a wealth tax to be applied rather than income tax being the de factor income generator for the country. His point is the we reward land and punish ideas - unless the idea belongs to a US multi-national of course.
He has also cited Singapore (I will move there in the Summer) where land is owned by the government and released line with Government policy. Income tax in Singapore is c. 15% (much less if you have four children as I do) yet education and health are world class. Income taxes are low because they want to attract talent. In Ireland we speak about the smart economy but we haven't got a clue what it actually means. We are a tax haven for US tech and life science giants and very little else. The fact the leaving cert hasn't changed too much since I sat the exam back in the days when University matriculation was still an option shows you that there is little guidance coming from the top. Interesting days ahead and the fear of capital fleeing the country is a real concern.

he talks a lot of sense alright, that podcast episode where he talks about moving the port was immense.

He also floated the idea of taking shares off multinationals and putting them into a national wealth fund, which could be a profitable path to persue.

[MBL?]

When I was working on the docks in the early 2000’s there was talk of it all being moved to ballbrigan or drogheda to free up the land. Would be interesting to hear the podcast if anyone has a link?

[FlashGordon]

There is no problem paying taxes when taxes are equitable. In Ireland you can pay c.53% taxes while also paying 50 euros to see a GP and having to pay 2-300 euros a year on motor tax. You can pay all that tax yet if you were to lose your job you would be entitled to the same unemployment benefit that those that have never worked are entitled to.

In my life I have been lucky enough to live in a number of countries. While living in Belgium I paid c. 60% tax, yet did not complain: housing was affordable (despite having twice the population of Ireland in a country that is roughly the size of Munster; health insurance for my family and I was 200 euros for the year and gave us access to an incredible health service; child care was tax deductible as were many work related expenses such as mileage/travel to work and dry cleaning; and if I was to lose my job I would have been able to receive up to 70% of my previous pay for the first year of unemployment.

There are very few private secondary schools (private schools really only cater for the expat community in Brussels) and University fees are c. 800 euros for the year. Belgium has four Universities in the Times top 100 Universities. All in all your taxes cover you for many of life's eventualities.

Sounds great, remind me again who has been in charge of services in Ireland for the past 100 years?

[Red-Soldier]

The Singapore model.....Built on the backs of the enslavement of Bangladeshi labour.

[Libertine]

McWilliams has been covering the global housing crisis quite a bit over the past year. Both McWilliams and his co-host have children in their early adulthood that will be affected by the cost of housing.
He has been calling out for a plan to move the Port of Dublin out of Dublin to free up huge tracts of land - a model that Cork is adopting and that has been successfully implemented in Oslo, Barcelona and Copenhagen.
He has also been pushing for a wealth tax to be applied rather than income tax being the de factor income generator for the country. His point is the we reward land and punish ideas - unless the idea belongs to a US multi-national of course.
He has also cited Singapore (I will move there in the Summer) where land is owned by the government and released line with Government policy. Income tax in Singapore is c. 15% (much less if you have four children as I do) yet education and health are world class. Income taxes are low because they want to attract talent. In Ireland we speak about the smart economy but we haven't got a clue what it actually means. We are a tax haven for US tech and life science giants and very little else. The fact the leaving cert hasn't changed too much since I sat the exam back in the days when University matriculation was still an option shows you that there is little guidance coming from the top. Interesting days ahead and the fear of capital fleeing the country is a real concern.

Wealth taxes and moving ports - may be good ideas.

But as with the Brexiters in the UK, trying to borrow ideas from as Asian city state to adopt in a western democracy really makes little sense. It's an effective one-party state, with very oppressive laws by western standards. The government does provide good quality housing to most citizens, but requires them to be married (to an opposite sex spouse of course) to qualify. And while health care might be good, it also requires you to have very expensive private insurance.

[conman]

Wealth taxes and moving ports - may be good ideas.

But as with the Brexiters in the UK, trying to borrow ideas from as Asian city state to adopt in a western democracy really makes little sense. It's an effective one-party state, with very oppressive laws by western standards. The government does provide good quality housing to most citizens, but requires them to be married (to an opposite sex spouse of course) to qualify. And while health care might be good, it also requires you to have very expensive private insurance.

That's the way it's been implemented in Singapore, but doesn't mean these ideas cannot still be inacted here differently.

[Nobby Reserve]

Sounds great, remind me again who has been in charge of services in Ireland for the past 100 years?

The Catholic Church?

[FlashGordon]

The Catholic Church?

Fair enough but not really in the last twenty years, thank god 

[planet-terror]

https://www.facebook.com/StairnahEireann/videos/313133632683668/
Forgotten about this little beauty [emoji4][emoji4]

[Ray K]

There is no problem paying taxes when taxes are equitable. In Ireland you can pay c.53% taxes while also paying 50 euros to see a GP and having to pay 2-300 euros a year on motor tax. You can pay all that tax yet if you were to lose your job you would be entitled to the same unemployment benefit that those that have never worked are entitled to.

The reality is that Ireland is a low-tax country. The top rate might be 48%, but the effective tax rate for someone earning 75k is around 36% (including USC/PRSI).  Nobody is paying 53% of their income. (source).
(And car tax rate is very low too, by the way).

The argument that we (collectively) should be paying a far higher rate of tax in exchange for better childcare, social housing and services etc etc in line with Scandinavians is definitely something that we should have been having. However the arguments should be made on facts, not on perceptions. 

[fowlermagic]

The reality is that Ireland is a low-tax country. The top rate might be 48%, but the effective tax rate for someone earning 75k is around 36% (including USC/PRSI).  Nobody is paying 53% of their income. (source).
(And car tax rate is very low too, by the way).

The argument that we (collectively) should be paying a far higher rate of tax in exchange for better childcare, social housing and services etc etc in line with Scandinavians is definitely something that we should have been having. However the arguments should be made on facts, not on perceptions. 

You could argue that our high cost of living would not sustain an increase in the rate of taxes as the average Joe outside of Dublin is making less than 40K a year but spending up to 40% & higher of their income  on just rent alone. Surely before we ever raise taxes we would be better off auditing the books and see how the money can be better spent.

[FlashGordon]

Mary Lou's speech in the Dáil today was awe inspiring, if you don't want this lady leading our country you're insane. Reminds me of Obama in 08 to be honest. She's the Jurgen Klopp of Irish politics.

[conman]

Mary Lou's speech in the Dáil today was awe inspiring, if you don't want this lady leading our country you're insane. Reminds me of Obama in 08 to be honest. She's the Jurgen Klopp of Irish politics.

It was brilliant alright. I heard Eamon Ryan's was too, but i didn't hear it myself.

[FlashGordon]

It was brilliant alright. I heard Eamon Ryan's was too, but i didn't hear it myself.

Didn't hear that either, but I would want the Greens to be part of any formed government.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Mary Lou's speech in the Dáil today was awe inspiring, if you don't want this lady leading our country you're insane. Reminds me of Obama in 08 to be honest. She's the Jurgen Klopp of Irish politics.

I just listened to it. I have to say, it was a rip-roaring speech. It is a shame that the British Labour Party cannot muster up someone with her oratory skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEDcc9DaLk

[FlashGordon]

I just listened to it. I have to say, it was a rip-roaring speech. It is a shame that the British Labour Party cannot muster up someone with her oratory skills.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFEDcc9DaLk

I'm sure there must be people within the framework of the party able to do the same, they need to be given the chance just like Mary Lou was.

[fowlermagic]

Is Sinn Fein one of the main reasons why N Ireland had no functioning government for the past three years? I know we want a change but just looking at how they conducted themselves in the North I would not be rushing for them to be in charge down here either after you see the shamble that went on between them and the Unionists to create the pure mess they have had since 2017. 

[Macphisto80]

Is Sinn Fein one of the main reasons why N Ireland had no functioning government for the past three years? I know we want a change but just looking at how they conducted themselves in the North I would not be rushing for them to be in charge down here either after you see the shamble that went on between them and the Unionists to create the pure mess they have had since 2017. 

They didn't create the mess. The DUP did with scandals like RHI, and then not agreeing to an Irish Language Act, which directly goes against everything the GFA was built upon. It was them getting up to their old tricks, wanting their cake and eating it, or in their minds, doing what they wanted with no repercussion, i.e the status quo of the carte blanche mentality they had at the peak of Unionist influence. To cave into that, or to give concession, would be to capitulate to them, and then where do you draw the line after? Sinn Fein put the foot down and nipped that on the bud quickly by collapsing Stormont, and rightly so.

[fowlermagic]

Ohh they nipped it on the bud for sure and kept it nipped for three years as they huffed and puffed without getting anything done. Three years later who are they looking at across the aisles? The same woman they were putting their foot down for. What a fecking mess to basically end up in the same place they were in 2017. They still not done much with the Irish Language Act for a decade plus and the DUP still can veto any changes in the future I think. Also curious can Mary Lou McDonald or Michelle O Neill speak Irish? I can speak about 10 words after getting it hammered into me in school but I would think any future leader of the country can hold a decent conversation in Gaeilge.

[Macphisto80]

Do you honestly think it was just about the Irish language? There were far bigger, and historical, implications than that. Equality as a basis being one.

[Daniel Cabbaggio]

As well as a fuckload of actual corruption in the Rhi thing, they were right to be called up on that. Any normal government it's a lot of sackings and resignations but it's the North so it brought the whole house down.

[Macphisto80]

As well as a fuckload of actual corruption in the Rhi thing, they were right to be called up on that. Any normal government it's a lot of sackings and resignations but it's the North so it brought the whole house down.

Yep. Couple of million gets swindled and everything's grand. Corruption is the norm. As you say, in any other country, there'd be sackings and prison sentences.

Then there's stuff like this:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/CMcX7k5S53g" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/CMcX7k5S53g</a>
If Irish speakers, or those that are Irish, had a different shade of skin by ethnicity, there'd be calls of blatant racism and for his resignation. This is the sort of thing politics in the north is tainted with, and it's what Sinn Fein and other Nationalist parties have to contend with.