Author Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread  (Read 12344230 times)

Offline dakid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84160 on: September 1, 2015, 08:47:51 pm »
I really like watching our youngsters play for other teams as it spices up otherwise meaningless games (eg. Wisdom vs Southampton on Sunday), but it's going to be awkward watching Ilori play for Villa knowing that him performing well would mean we most likely lose him.
What did you make of wisdoms performance I also watched this. No impressed.

Offline Crouch Potato

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84161 on: September 1, 2015, 09:28:47 pm »
Wisdom played really well until HT, but made a few mistakes after the break, dodgy marking when Southampton crossed the ball.

Offline Phil M

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84162 on: September 1, 2015, 09:46:32 pm »
Wisdom played really well until HT, but made a few mistakes after the break, dodgy marking when Southampton crossed the ball.

Always tough when you're a player down and your midfield is doing nothing to protect the back 4, thought he did well under difficult circumstances.

Would be good to see the lad get a run at CB but he seems destined to be a makeshift full back.
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Offline wemmick

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84163 on: September 1, 2015, 09:55:53 pm »
I don't know if Ilori is good enough for us. It seems he divides opinion. What I do know, however, is that Skrtel has fuck all competition again this season. Kolo is done at the PL level, and there's no indication that Gomez is competing with Skrtel for playing time at RCB.

Jesus. 40m worth of LCBs competing in the squad, and not a single RCB to reasonably compete with Skrtel. Surely Ilori could have provided some competition for him? 

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84164 on: September 1, 2015, 10:02:18 pm »
@TonyBarretTimes
Ilori's imminent departure means 13 of the 24 players Liverpool signed from 2012-14 have either left the club permanently or are on loan.

 ;D

Offline jdpapa3

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84165 on: September 1, 2015, 10:07:49 pm »
Makes sense John, the problem is the scattergun approach that irks me.

It smacks of a lack of judgement, lack of belief and above all a lack of courage on the clubs part.


We would be in significantly worse shape as a club if we hadn't been doing the scattergun approach with young players. You can have the best judgment, belief, and courage in the world and still be stung with injuries or unforeseen issues. I'm idealistic as fuck, but your asks are just out of touch with reality and seem to be based on something that <1% of regimes in history have done.

Offline dakid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84166 on: September 1, 2015, 10:19:18 pm »


Always tough when you're a player down and your midfield is doing nothing to protect the back 4, thought he did well under difficult circumstances.

Would be good to see the lad get a run at CB but he seems destined to be a makeshift full back.
Not sure how he did well in your eyes.
He was poor for the two out of the three goals.

2nd - https://vine.co/v/eI61nTLti1O
3rd - https://vine.co/v/eI6nJOLrpT1

Offline Phil M

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84167 on: September 1, 2015, 10:30:50 pm »
Not sure how he did well in your eyes.
He was poor for the two out of the three goals.

2nd - https://vine.co/v/eI61nTLti1O
3rd - https://vine.co/v/eI6nJOLrpT1

Are 3 second clips reflective of what's happened in the run up to each goal? Where marking responsibility lied and where it was passed on to the central defenders? Who was tracking from midfield  - who did their job and who didn't.

There's 5 Norwich players in the box for the Tadic goal yet you're assuming Wisdom was to blame for example. It's a very simplistic view to assume he was to blame because he's the nearest to the goal scorer.   The lad isn't Thiago Silva, he's a young and still relatively inexperienced defender who's just joined a new team who were down a man against a well drilled Soton side.
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Offline john_mac

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84168 on: September 1, 2015, 10:34:09 pm »
Makes sense John, the problem is the scattergun approach that irks me. Someone like Twentymen had the belief in his abilities to recruit one or two players who would be bedded in playing for the reserves and gradually introduced into the first team. Our recruitment policy is to bring in a dozen players a year give them ridiculously limited opportunities and then jib then when they don't turn into worldies overnight.

It smacks of a lack of judgement, lack of belief and above all a lack of courage on the clubs part.

The fans get slated for being kneejerk but they have nothing on the Club.

Funny though Al, I'm always being told it is different these days. I've no doubt that the club bring some players in then decide to send them out on loan, get the wages back and a bit of a loan fee then move them on. Chelsea do it all the time. If you are going to recruit where we are, you will do well to get a 30 - 40% success rate and if you can get something back on the ones that don't make it, you are doing well. I think that we are going to get more of this not less, the model is well established, whether you think it is right or not is another matter.

Problem is that nobody knows who is doing what with transfers, understand that Rodgers is now having a bigger say and it maybe that he is happy to move on committee signings that are not in their plans, FSG are certainly happy to balance the books. I don't know if Rodgers is right or wrong, but I'm happier for the manager to have a bigger say than a faceless committee, he'll live or die by it.

Biggest problem at the club is not Markovic or Ilori going out the door.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84169 on: September 1, 2015, 11:34:56 pm »
I never understood the level of excitement around Ilori it was there from when we first signed him. And now he's gone we get hyperbolic bollocks like this despite Gomez, Ibe and Rosstier being active members of our first team squad:

And winging about fair chance is pathetic. The coaches see these players in training every day and they've shown they aren't afraid of throwing in young players. Gomez plays ahead of more expensive and experienced players because his performances in training merited it; that's the fair chance.

The level of excitement was shared by Rodgers himself.

Offline dakid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84170 on: September 1, 2015, 11:37:12 pm »


Are 3 second clips reflective of what's happened in the run up to each goal? Where marking responsibility lied and where it was passed on to the central defenders? Who was tracking from midfield  - who did their job and who didn't.

There's 5 Norwich players in the box for the Tadic goal yet you're assuming Wisdom was to blame for example. It's a very simplistic view to assume he was to blame because he's the nearest to the goal scorer. The lad isn't Thiago Silva, he's a young and still relatively inexperienced defender who's just joined a new team who were down a man against a well drilled Soton side.
Whatever about other players not doing their job they are not Liverpool players and their mistakes didn't directly lead to a goal. I am discussing Wisdom not doing his job as a right back where he should have prevented both goals. He was the closest to the goal scorer each time for a reason he had one man that he should have been marking for both and he didn't!!!

Offline dakid

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84171 on: September 1, 2015, 11:38:00 pm »
The level of excitement was shared by Rodgers himself.
How do you know this?

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84172 on: September 1, 2015, 11:49:11 pm »
Whatever about other players not doing their job they are not Liverpool players and their mistakes didn't directly lead to a goal. I am discussing Wisdom not doing his job as a right back where he should have prevented both goals. He was the closest to the goal scorer each time for a reason he had one man that he should have been marking for both and he didn't!!!
He's unlucky for the third goal. His centre half was more at fault for me albeit he should tuck in. However, if the ball goes to the far post and the left winger smashes it in, he'd be criticised for that too.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84173 on: September 2, 2015, 12:49:22 am »
You can't honestly say Markovic got a fair chance here at all. He was never played in his right position and never got a run of games.

I understand that we shouldn't slate our manager, but to ignore the fact there is something amiss at our club is just naive at best. There is a clear pattern emerging, to think Ilori didn't get his chance while we have Lovren on his 20th just beggers belief.

Perhaps Markovic has been loaned so he can get that run of games that he is not ready yet for in our side? And that is why the club made it very clear he was still in our plans. But, that would crimp the tin foil.

Offline kevin87

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84174 on: September 2, 2015, 01:06:13 am »
I think we have seen enough now in 3 years to see that the management of some of our young players has been nothing short of a disgrace.

ridiculous statement. We have had more youth team products come into the first team than for a long long time. even under raffa etc...

Markovic will be back,

Illori was not going to get games, he needs to go out on loan for his own sake.

Yesil, Ojo, Wilson, etc... its so much better they get loans than play 21's. How is any of this a disgrace?

What players have left that have proven us wrong?? i actually would love to hear because with the amount of uproar on here i feel i must have missed a generation of players or something

Offline istvan kozma

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84175 on: September 2, 2015, 01:13:58 am »
I think we have seen enough now in 3 years to see that the management of some of our young players has been nothing short of a disgrace.
Laughable overreaction

Offline Crouch Potato

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84176 on: September 2, 2015, 01:47:11 am »
I think the main reason why so many fans got overexcited over Ilori was the constant referrals to how fast he was, and also the size of the fee, leading most of us to believe he must be something special, to pay such a relatively large amount for such a young player.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84177 on: September 2, 2015, 04:41:18 am »
Rumours of an option to buy for Ilori if true would mean that we never gave him a chance to even play a single real competitive match in Liverpool colours before getting rid.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84178 on: September 2, 2015, 04:44:11 am »
Symptomatic of the club's warped approach is that when we are badly needing a quality and proven pacey option down the flank this window, they go and sign yet another 18 year old who is years away from the first team, if ever.

When is the club going to realise that before you can have a bright tomorrow, you need to make sure to make today a good day first?

Both of FSG's twin toewrs of their entire strategy are flawed - their dependence on FFP is proven toe a house of cards. Their desire to apply Moneyball to football si similarly flawed.

Offline Ken-Obi

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84179 on: September 2, 2015, 04:46:35 am »
When is the club going to realise that before you can have a bright tomorrow, you need to make sure to make today a good day first?
Off topic but you can't predict tomorrow's weather based on today's .... :-X
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Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84180 on: September 2, 2015, 05:05:11 am »
Off topic but you can't predict tomorrow's weather based on today's .... :-X

That would be true if I were making a literal reference t the weather - which I was not - rather than using a metaphor to address how we fail to have enough proven quality of the right types in our squad before worrying about all the future prospects who may or may not pan out - which I was.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84181 on: September 2, 2015, 05:49:23 am »
Coates, Alberto, Markovic, Suso got some first team chances and maybe did not do enough to earn a future here. Ilori never got that chance. He should've been 4th choice CB this year and Kolo should've been sold.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84182 on: September 2, 2015, 06:04:57 am »
Some of you lot on here and in the transfer deadline day thread are going to look a bit daft moaning about Ilori never getting a chance here if he turns out to be crap at Villa. If he's not. If he turns out to be brilliant for them and they take up the option to buy him, that will be the time to have a go at the club for not giving him a chance. But not now. And if they then go on to sell him for 30-40 mill to Chelsea, City or Utd in a couple of years time, that will be the time the club will deserve the full force of your wrath. But again, not now!

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84183 on: September 2, 2015, 06:30:36 am »
Wisdom played really well until HT, but made a few mistakes after the break, dodgy marking when Southampton crossed the ball.

I don't see any future for Wisdom at the club.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84184 on: September 2, 2015, 06:41:37 am »
Anyway.....

I think I read that Toni Gomez is out for six months with a knee injury...

Would be very sad for the kid...
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Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84185 on: September 2, 2015, 06:55:41 am »
Anyway.....

I think I read that Toni Gomez is out for six months with a knee injury...

Would be very sad for the kid...

Shit. That is bad news.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84186 on: September 2, 2015, 06:56:56 am »
I don't see any future for Wisdom at the club.

Hopefully it is just Wisdom the player and not Wisdom itself!

Offline Draex

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84187 on: September 2, 2015, 07:16:52 am »
Perhaps Markovic has been loaned so he can get that run of games that he is not ready yet for in our side? And that is why the club made it very clear he was still in our plans. But, that would crimp the tin foil.

I get that, but surely a loan in the Premiership is the best thing for him? It's not as though there wasn't clubs asking for him to go on loan. There is a vast difference in the Turkish League and the Premiership, you are giving the guy an unfair chance already. One of the major things I noticed about Markovic was he struggled with the pace of the game and making decisions in a split second, going to a slow league, where he will play against poor defenders may help him keep his value, but it hardly helps him tie down a spot for Liverpool.

We heard similar things about Ilori going on loan, he was on our plans, he'd get his chance.. 2 foreign loans later he is on a loan to buy and his his career here is done pretty much.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2015, 07:26:25 am by Draex »

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84188 on: September 2, 2015, 07:37:59 am »
That would be true if I were making a literal reference t the weather - which I was not - rather than using a metaphor to address how we fail to have enough proven quality of the right types in our squad before worrying about all the future prospects who may or may not pan out - which I was.
Seeing that it's Britain I think it'll rain.
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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84189 on: September 2, 2015, 08:31:13 am »
Usually I don't get that upset about transfers of squad members, but the way Ilori is treated sucks big time. Sorry but Brendan got it so wrong this time. What does Gomez actually have in raw talent that Ilori lacks? Speed, strength composure? I could see the two of them being our next centre back pairing for 10 years! Why promote one and dump the other?

The conspiracy theorist will fly out of the roof with " transfer committee signings" etc. Well done Rodgers, lets hope your favourite centre backs do come through.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84190 on: September 2, 2015, 08:45:59 am »
Gomez hasn't been injured for about a third of both the past 2 seasons like Ilori has, he's also versitile enough to play fullback on either flank, something which Ilori isn't.

All this fume over a player who hasn't even really done anything to justify it. If Ilori has been Bordeux'a player last season nobody would be up in arms if we didn't sign him, cos he didn't pull up any trees.

He won't even be a starter for Villa either btw. Not until Richards gets his obligatory injury. He'll go in there and be back up to him and Lescott.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84191 on: September 2, 2015, 08:46:26 am »
Anyway.....

I think I read that Toni Gomez is out for six months with a knee injury...

Would be very sad for the kid...
Please let this not be true. A decent youth team striker comes along once in 3-4 years and all of them pick up awful injuries

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84192 on: September 2, 2015, 10:48:17 am »
Gomez hasn't been injured for about a third of both the past 2 seasons like Ilori has, he's also versitile enough to play fullback on either flank, something which Ilori isn't.

All this fume over a player who hasn't even really done anything to justify it. If Ilori has been Bordeux'a player last season nobody would be up in arms if we didn't sign him, cos he didn't pull up any trees.

He won't even be a starter for Villa either btw. Not until Richards gets his obligatory injury. He'll go in there and be back up to him and Lescott.

Granted he seems to be injury prone, a bit like Agger. But do we know he cant play fullback - no because we never tried him there. We don't know what he can do because he was not given the chance. That is what irks me, he was never even tested. If he had not been away with Portugal in the summer, would he have been given the chance to impress on tour?

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84193 on: September 2, 2015, 10:50:29 am »
Usually I don't get that upset about transfers of squad members, but the way Ilori is treated sucks big time. Sorry but Brendan got it so wrong this time. What does Gomez actually have in raw talent that Ilori lacks? Speed, strength composure? I could see the two of them being our next centre back pairing for 10 years! Why promote one and dump the other?

The conspiracy theorist will fly out of the roof with " transfer committee signings" etc. Well done Rodgers, lets hope your favourite centre backs do come through.

Has "RAWK in meltdown" got hold of that one yet?

If you can't see that Gomez is a talent, there's no hope for you.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84194 on: September 2, 2015, 10:55:09 am »
Has "RAWK in meltdown" got hold of that one yet?

If you can't see that Gomez is a talent, there's no hope for you.
I don't think the poster is suggesting that Gomez doesn't have talent (because he obviously does for anyone with at least one functioning eye). I do agree with the overall premise of the comment you bolded, which is that Ilori has many of the same characteristics Gomez has (pace, comfort in the ball, agility, etc).

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84195 on: September 2, 2015, 10:57:18 am »
Granted he seems to be injury prone, a bit like Agger. But do we know he cant play fullback - no because we never tried him there. We don't know what he can do because he was not given the chance. That is what irks me, he was never even tested. If he had not been away with Portugal in the summer, would he have been given the chance to impress on tour?

If he's never played there, be it by Rodgers, or the scores of other managers he's played under at club/international level perhaps there's a clue there that he just can't do it.

They see a lot more of him than we do, after all, and none of these coaches seem to have played him at fullback. I tend to think there's a reason for that.

The bolded part is a complete straw man. He was away, he then had his child. None of these factors are down to the club or the manager to control. If Ilori wasnt on loan or given a go during pre-season then that's in no way the club's fault.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84196 on: September 2, 2015, 11:04:28 am »
I think the main reason why so many fans got overexcited over Ilori was the constant referrals to how fast he was, and also the size of the fee, leading most of us to believe he must be something special

A max of £6.3m? Some of which was no doubt dependent on certain conditions.

I'd hardly say that was such a sizable fee that it would cause us getting anymore excited about him than normal for a youth player.


If he had not been away with Portugal in the summer, would he have been given the chance to impress on tour?

How about if he didn't get injured once again whilst away with Portugal which made him miss the whole of pre-season and only return to training on the 10th August... maybe then he would of got a chance in some games. Or maybe that injury was the one which broke the camels back and made it clear after 2 years of near constant injuries that we are better placed investing coaching time, a squad place, and money in another youngster who isn't always injured.

Tough on the kid for sure, but with such a conveyor belt of talent coming through each year if you don't take your chances to show what you can do (on loan or with us) then that's what happens.

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84197 on: September 2, 2015, 12:00:10 pm »
Anyway.....

I think I read that Toni Gomez is out for six months with a knee injury...

Would be very sad for the kid...
Pretty sure they said it was a hamstring injury during the last u18 game.

Offline Coolie High

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84198 on: September 2, 2015, 12:01:31 pm »
If he's never played there, be it by Rodgers, or the scores of other managers he's played under at club/international level perhaps there's a clue there that he just can't do it.

They see a lot more of him than we do, after all, and none of these coaches seem to have played him at fullback. I tend to think there's a reason for that.

The bolded part is a complete straw man. He was away, he then had his child. None of these factors are down to the club or the manager to control. If Ilori wasnt on loan or given a go during pre-season then that's in no way the club's fault.

He played there for Sporting.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: So what are these Youth/Reserve Lads like?
« Reply #84199 on: September 2, 2015, 12:07:31 pm »
Sometimes I am bemused by the reactions when we let some young player go, because the manager has been evaluating them for years in training. Ilori, though, he has barely been here. Rodgers has seen him in training Sept-Dec 2013 when he was settling in to a new club. If he was such a talent that we paid out ~ €5-6 million to get him, we should keep him here for a year now and see if he can force his way into the team rather than scrambling to get a €2-3 million extra through a loan fee and possible value growth on loan.