Topic: Youth and Under 23 Thread

[Cpt_Reina]

He played there for Sporting.

And in the interveining 2 seasons? How many apps at fullback? Club and country even, make it as broad as possible.

[CraigDS]

Sometimes I am bemused by the reactions when we let some young player go, because the manager has been evaluating them for years in training. Ilori, though, he has barely been here. Rodgers has seen him in training Sept-Dec 2013 when he was settling in to a new club. If he was such a talent that we paid out ~ €5-6 million to get him, we should keep him here for a year now and see if he can force his way into the team rather than scrambling to get a €2-3 million extra through a loan fee and possible value growth on loan.

Is he unable to evaluate a player whilst playing on loan for 18 months or can this ONLY be done during training?

[lionel_messias]

Is anyone telling me Kolo Toure gets a game at Liverpool ahead of Thiago?

I mean that's obviously the case now.

[CraigDS]

Is anyone telling me Kolo Toure gets a game at Liverpool ahead of Thiago?

I mean that's obviously the case now.

Even ignoring Toure... Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Gomez all appear ahead of him for the central positions. Possibly Can too if we're in a long term injury crisis.

[Cpt_Reina]

Is anyone telling me Kolo Toure gets a game at Liverpool ahead of Thiago?

I mean that's obviously the case now.

Toure hasn't got any games this season so far so this seems a bit of a baseless comment.

We'll be especially unlucky to see Toure get more than a handful of appearances this season, so even if Ilori took those is that really more beneficial to him than a full season on loan at a club where he's higher in the pecking order?

Toure isnt the issue with Ilori getting minutes here, its Sakho/Skrtel/Lovren/Gomez and possibly Can (as mentioned above).

[KingKolo]

Even ignoring Toure... Skrtel, Lovren, Sakho and Gomez all appear ahead of him for the central positions.

Yeah, exactly.

Seems quite a few are annoyed that Ilori has gone, but I don't really get why.
It's not as though he was ever present and indispensable at either Bordeaux or Granada.
He had a couple of run-outs for the under21s early this season and didn't take that as an opportunity to show his best form at all.
He had a good under 21 champs, but got injured during. Story of his career so far.

Yes, our 4 centre-backs are a bit too shit for Liverpool, but it's not as though Ilori looks like he's the solution.

[SwordInYourGut]

Is he unable to evaluate a player whilst playing on loan for 18 months or can this ONLY be done during training?

He can't evaluate him day to day when he is out on loan. Besides, Ilori did not play enough on loan for Rodgers to evaluate him thoroughly. If 2 years ago, the management thought he looked a great prospect, I don't think they have a large enough sample set since then to say with any certainty that he isn't all that. 

[CraigDS]

He can't evaluate him day to day when he is out on loan. Besides, Ilori did not play enough on loan for Rodgers to evaluate him thoroughly. If 2 years ago, the management thought he looked a great prospect, I don't think they have a large enough sample set since then to say with any certainty that he isn't all that.

And can the bit in bold above not be the crux of the issue?

We've given the guy 2 years of being at clubs high up the pecking order, and he has managed about 1800 minutes because he is constantly getting injured. Could it not be a case of the club deciding that this is likely to be a continuing issue, which will not only prevent his development but also if he does become a starter prevent him from being able to be relied upon (see Agger, see Sakho)?

[KingKolo]

And can the bit in bold above not be the crux of the issue?

We've given the guy 2 years of being at clubs high up the pecking order, and he has managed about 1800 minutes because he is constantly getting injured. Could it not be a case of the club deciding that this is likely to be a continuing issue, which will not only prevent his development but also if he does become a starter prevent him from being able to be relied upon (see Agger, see Sakho)?

Yep.

[Cpt_Reina]

He can't evaluate him day to day when he is out on loan. Besides, Ilori did not play enough on loan for Rodgers to evaluate him thoroughly. If 2 years ago, the management thought he looked a great prospect, I don't think they have a large enough sample set since then to say with any certainty that he isn't all that.

Why hasn't he played enough?

[jooneyisdagod]

And can the bit in bold above not be the crux of the issue?

We've given the guy 2 years of being at clubs high up the pecking order, and he has managed about 1800 minutes because he is constantly getting injured. Could it not be a case of the club deciding that this is likely to be a continuing issue, which will not only prevent his development but also if he does become a starter prevent him from being able to be relied upon (see Agger, see Sakho)?

Why are you creating so many scenarios and what if's to justify a player being let go? The obvious and the simplest answer is that Rodgers didn't fancy him. Everything else is just a case of you inventing scenarios in which that is okay.

[KingKolo]

Why are you creating so many scenarios and what if's to justify a player being let go? The obvious and the simplest answer is that Rodgers didn't fancy him. Everything else is just a case of you inventing scenarios in which that is okay.

the amount of time he's been injured isn't a what if

[CraigDS]

Why are you creating so many scenarios and what if's to justify a player being let go? The obvious and the simplest answer is that Rodgers didn't fancy him. Everything else is just a case of you inventing scenarios in which that is okay.

Where are the what ifs? Is it not true that Ilori has suffered constant injury problems in the last two years?

[jooneyisdagod]

the amount of time he's been injured isn't a what if

It isn't. The conjecture comes thereafter. As I said, he's been sent on loan possibly because he's not particularly fancied. That he's got a loan at Villa is good because we'll find out soon enough if he's cut out to play in this league. But I'm not too convinced about the injury angle at all. Particularly, with Sakho lumped in there alongside Agger and Illori when we have just witnessed a truly god awful performance from Lovren.

[jooneyisdagod]

Where are the what ifs? Is it not true that Ilori has suffered constant injury problems in the last two years?

Because constantly picking up injuries didn't seem to stop Johnson previously and currently doesn't seem to be stopping Lallana or Allen now. Lallana having had a stop-start season was immediately a part of the starting XI this year. Allen has made a countless comebacks into the team from an injury break. Granted you could make the point that they were midfielders and that's not the same as a defender, but Johnson certainly was.

[CraigDS]

It isn't. The conjecture comes thereafter. As I said, he's been sent on loan possibly because he's not particularly fancied. That he's got a loan at Villa is good because we'll find out soon enough if he's cut out to play in this league. But I'm not too convinced about the injury angle at all. Particularly, with Sakho lumped in there alongside Agger and Illori when we have just witnessed a truly god awful performance from Lovren.

I'm happy if the thinking was they just didn't rate him. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But let's not pretend looking at a players injury record, both youth players and senior, doesn't come into the thinking at all.

Put it this way, if we were looking to sign him yesterday from Villa, do you think the fact he has missed a huge amount of game time over the last 2 years through injury would be considered before doing the deal?

Because constantly picking up injuries didn't seem to stop Johnson previously and currently doesn't seem to be stopping Lallana or Allen now. Lallana having had a stop-start season was immediately a part of the starting XI this year. Allen has made a countless comebacks into the team from an injury break. Granted you could make the point that they were midfielders and that's not the same as a defender, but Johnson certainly was.

They are all senior players though, who have had their break in the side and played countless games to show their level.

Johnson's new deal was pulled last season, and it will be in no small part down to his injury record in recent seasons.

[KingKolo]

Because constantly picking up injuries didn't seem to stop Johnson previously and currently doesn't seem to be stopping Lallana or Allen now. Lallana having had a stop-start season was immediately a part of the starting XI this year. Allen has made a countless comebacks into the team from an injury break. Granted you could make the point that they were midfielders and that's not the same as a defender, but Johnson certainly was.

Either way, Ilori has done absolutely nothing to show that he's good enough in the last 2 years.

[Coolie High]

And in the interveining 2 seasons? How many apps at fullback? Club and country even, make it as broad as possible.

I don't know exactly, but he only played 12 games before we brought him, some of those at left back?).

[CraigDS]

I don't know exactly, but he only played 12 games before we brought him, some of those at left back?).

From what I can gather, he played some of those games at Sporting at LB (and some at LCB). Since I don't think he has played at fullback though, for loan clubs, our U21's, or country.

[Coolie High]

Either way, Ilori has done absolutely nothing to show that he's good enough in the last 2 years.

What exactly were we expecting him to do when we signed him?

Considering he went on loan pretty much straight away, has he shown hes good enough to play a squad role for us, her certainly has imo.

He doesn't need to be a world beater to be a squad player, quite evidently given the situation of our first team.

[Cpt_Reina]

Because constantly picking up injuries didn't seem to stop Johnson previously and currently doesn't seem to be stopping Lallana or Allen now. Lallana having had a stop-start season was immediately a part of the starting XI this year. Allen has made a countless comebacks into the team from an injury break. Granted you could make the point that they were midfielders and that's not the same as a defender, but Johnson certainly was.

Lallana and Allen have both proved themselves to an extent that Ilori hasn't even got close to.

They've had seasons where they've posted strong numbers in terms of appearances and put in top level performances, Ilori thus far has done neither.

If Ilori had gone to Grandada and Bordeaux and absolutely blown the league away with his quality and level of performance, or managed to stay fit enough to manage more than the paltry 24 apps in 2 seasons then we might have indulged his injuries in a way that we do with Allen/Lallana/Sakho/Lucas but he didn't.

He's proved nothing. And so his injuries are not indulged to the same extent as those players, because he hasn't earned the right for them to be.

[jooneyisdagod]

I'm happy if the thinking was they just didn't rate him. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. But let's not pretend looking at a players injury record, both youth players and senior, doesn't come into the thinking at all.

Put it this way, if we were looking to sign him yesterday from Villa, do you think the fact he has missed a huge amount of game time over the last 2 years through injury would be considered before doing the deal?


They are all senior players though, who have had their break in the side and played countless games to show their level.

Johnson's new deal was pulled last season, and it will be in no small part down to his injury record in recent seasons.

Well, the point is clearly that Brendan doesn't rate him. While I'm not saying that injury records don't come into play, it's a fallacious way of looking at things when discussing one's own players. Teams might be wary of signing a player with injury troubles but having signed him, and given their weekly wages, it makes little sense for a player with recurring injury troubles to not get checked up by doctors that the club trusts and to try and get to the root of it as it has happened with Sturridge. And it would have happened with Ilori if the manager fancied him, which he quite clearly didn't.

Why the manager didn't fancy the player is for another day. But the injury angle doesn't seem to be mentioned by any of the regular Liverpool associated journalist.

[KingKolo]

What exactly were we expecting him to do when we signed him?

Considering he went on loan pretty much straight away, has he shown hes good enough to play a squad role for us, her certainly has imo.

He played 9 times for Granada in half a season and 12 times for Bordeaux in a whole season.
Then looked total wank for the under21s at the start of this season.

I know we're all keen to have better options at centre-back, but deciding that this guy represents that is desperation.

[CraigDS]

Well, the point is clearly that Brendan doesn't rate him. While I'm not saying that injury records don't come into play, it's a fallacious way of looking at things when discussing one's own players. Teams might be wary of signing a player with injury troubles but having signed him, and given their weekly wages, it makes little sense for a player with recurring injury troubles to not get checked up by doctors that the club trusts and to try and get to the root of it as it has happened with Sturridge. And it would have happened with Ilori if the manager fancied him, which he quite clearly didn't.

How would you know it hasn't? How would you know it isn't a case of it being a recurring theme? Or could possibly take a long while out injured to fix - something which isn't ideal for a developing player who is 23 this year?

Why the manager didn't fancy the player is for another day. But the injury angle doesn't seem to be mentioned by any of the regular Liverpool associated journalist.

They haven't said the manager doesn't rate him either...

[jooneyisdagod]

Lallana and Allen have both proved themselves to an extent that Ilori hasn't even got close to.

They've had seasons where they've posted strong numbers in terms of appearances and put in top level performances, Ilori thus far has done neither.

If Ilori had gone to Grandada and Bordeaux and absolutely blown the league away with his quality and level of performance, or managed to stay fit enough to manage more than the paltry 24 apps in 2 seasons then we might have indulged his injuries in a way that we do with Allen/Lallana/Sakho/Lucas but he didn't.

He's proved nothing. And so his injuries are not indulged to the same extent as those players, because he hasn't earned the right for them to be.

We clearly don't indulge Sakho's injuries though. If Craig has it right, then Sakho isn't a part of Brendan's preferred first XI purely because of his inability to stay fit. So, we're obviously not indulging his injury troubles at all.

Ilori's injuries have obviously prevented him from reaching his potential. They never let him get a steady string of games and therefore, hampered his development significantly. Now, if the manager viewed him as a serious talent if he could get over his injury troubles, he would not have been sent on loan and would instead be looking at going to the club's best specialists to get the player fit again. Instead, he's gone on loan again and got injured again. Clearly, the manager doesn't rate him highly enough for any time to be invested into his medical problems.

Ultimately, it comes down to how highly the manager rates him. The manager obviously indulges some players with injuries but not others. And some of the players that have been indulged are not in the opinion of many here among our absolute best players. One player though that has not been indulged is our best central defender according to most. Yet he has received no favours. I'll gladly accept Brendan doesn't rate Ilori, but to bring up his injury issues is a bit convenient and really smacks of conjecture rather than anything else.

[Suareznumber7]

Some of you lot on here and in the transfer deadline day thread are going to look a bit daft moaning about Ilori never getting a chance here if he turns out to be crap at Villa. If he's not. If he turns out to be brilliant for them and they take up the option to buy him, that will be the time to have a go at the club for not giving him a chance. But not now. And if they then go on to sell him for 30-40 mill to Chelsea, City or Utd in a couple of years time, that will be the time the club will deserve the full force of your wrath. But again, not now!

The thing is though, we'll have to wait to see if he looks good at Villa before we look daft.  I think everyone would simply prefer that he be given a shot in our team before we give up on the kid.  You simply have to look at the shambolic defending in the last game to see why people may think he's a potential upgrade on what we've seen. 

[Fordy]

Football is a tough business at times and is all about timing.

I said in the Ilori thread that him can going on tour to be at the birth of his kid will cost him his chances here. You only have to remember Rodgers going on so much about Hendo being at the birth of his kid then being in training a few hours later then playing the match the next day.

You also have to remember Rodgers praising Danny Ings for cutting his time off to go on tour.

If Ilori had gone on tour he would of had a chance to impress. Barrinf under 21's we haven't seen him. So while Kent, Teix, Rossiter and Gomez all impressed and now all look to be apart of the EL and cup squads. Ilori is on loan to Villa and will more than likely be sold.

These young players have to take their chances and see the gaps to make it at big clubs.

[CraigDS]

Football is a tough business at times and is all about timing.

I said in the Ilori thread that him can going on tour to be at the birth of his kid will cost him his chances here. You only have to remember Rodgers going on so much about Hendo being at the birth of his kid then being in training a few hours later then playing the match the next day.

You also have to remember Rodgers praising Danny Ings for cutting his time off to go on tour.

If Ilori had gone on tour he would of had a chance to impress. Barrinf under 21's we haven't seen him. So while Kent, Teix, Rossiter and Gomez all impressed and now all look to be apart of the EL and cup squads. Ilori is on loan to Villa and will more than likely be sold.

These young players have to take their chances and see the gaps to make it at big clubs.

He didn't chose not to go on tour, he was injured (again) and didn't start training again until 10th Aug.

[KingKolo]

Some of you lot on here and in the transfer deadline day thread are going to look a bit daft moaning about Ilori never getting a chance here if he turns out to be crap at Villa. If he's not. If he turns out to be brilliant for them and they take up the option to buy him, that will be the time to have a go at the club for not giving him a chance. But not now. And if they then go on to sell him for 30-40 mill to Chelsea, City or Utd in a couple of years time, that will be the time the club will deserve the full force of your wrath. But again, not now!

This is spot on.

[Cpt_Reina]

We clearly don't indulge Sakho's injuries though. If Craig has it right, then Sakho isn't a part of Brendan's preferred first XI purely because of his inability to stay fit. So, we're obviously not indulging his injury troubles at all.

Ilori's injuries have obviously prevented him from reaching his potential. They never let him get a steady string of games and therefore, hampered his development significantly. Now, if the manager viewed him as a serious talent if he could get over his injury troubles, he would not have been sent on loan and would instead be looking at going to the club's best specialists to get the player fit again. Instead, he's gone on loan again and got injured again. Clearly, the manager doesn't rate him highly enough for any time to be invested into his medical problems.

Ultimately, it comes down to how highly the manager rates him. The manager obviously indulges some players with injuries but not others. And some of the players that have been indulged are not in the opinion of many here among our absolute best players. One player though that has not been indulged is our best central defender according to most. Yet he has received no favours. I'll gladly accept Brendan doesn't rate Ilori, but to bring up his injury issues is a bit convenient and really smacks of conjecture rather than anything else.

So if Sakho and Allen arent being indulged, because neither of them are part of his preferred XI (Id argue thats also the case for Lallana) then how is Ilori being treated any different? Surely if thats the case then Rodgers is being nothing if not consistent?

Sakho/Allen arent relied upon because they cant stay fit and are kept out of our strating XI because of it.

Ilori can't be relied upon to stay fit AND hasn't performed at a decent level previously so not only is he not included in our first team plans but he's also asked to go out somewhere where he can prove those things.

[Fordy]

He didn't chose not to go on tour, he was injured (again) and didn't start training again until 10th Aug.

When did he get injured? At the 21's?

Sure he put on his Twitter that he was at the gym training etc.

[jooneyisdagod]

How would you know it hasn't? How would you know it isn't a case of it being a recurring theme? Or could possibly take a long while out injured to fix - something which isn't ideal for a developing player who is 23 this year?

They haven't said the manager doesn't rate him either...

To answer the first part of your question, if it was any of those, you would find him jet-setting off to the states where the club's preferred doctors and surgeons seem to work. But, assuming that this wasn't going to happen in the case of Ilori and the causes behind his injury woes have been kept a total secret, then you're right, there is no way that I could know whether or not he had a recurring problem that wasn't checked out by experts.

But then again neither could you. There is no way that you could say with any certainty that he had those issues. You could only hazard a guess and that would be totally worthless given that you're going to be unable to prove any of it because his injury problems are going to be kept totally secret.

As for the manager not rating him, here is a quote from Andy Hunter's article on the subject,

"However, Rodgers appears to have been unconvinced by the London-born defender and he was made available ahead of deadline day."

And here's Brendan's personal mouthpiece Mr. James Pearce,

"Many of those who have been shown the door were players like Ilori who were lauded by the transfer committee rather than being deals that Rodgers was the driving force behind.


Out of the eight players who arrived at the club last summer, four have already gone with three of them – Mario Balotelli, Javier Manquillo and Lazar Markovic – viewed as committee picks.

Of course Rodgers isn’t in the business of cutting off his nose to spite his face. If he thought they were up to the task he would have kept them and played them. The bottom line is they, like Ilori, didn’t impress him, but it underlines the folly of signing players the manager isn’t 100% sold on."

Pretty damn explicit that Brendan didn't rate them. And that evidently includes Markovic and Manquillo as well.

[Coolie High]

He played 9 times for Granada in half a season and 12 times for Bordeaux in a whole season.
Then looked total wank for the under21s at the start of this season.

I know we're all keen to have better options at centre-back, but deciding that this guy represents that is desperation.

How many times did Toure play last season?

Hes good enough as a squad option, whether he can break through into the first team was up in the air, but he certainly is good enough to play a squad role in EL/CL and even premier league games, in a team where your first choice cbs is making mistakes left right and centre, i don't see why there should be apprehension in playing a 21 year old in that position, because even if he does make mistakes and errrors in judgement, he is still young enough to iron out these problems, unlike 26 year old Lovren or 31 year old Skrtel.

He looked good in the European championships, which is of higher standard than our u21 games.

[Twelfth Man]

Dow we still have a transfer committee? Given how well it has performed for the penny pinchers, I suspect yes.

[jooneyisdagod]

So if Sakho and Allen arent being indulged, because neither of them are part of his preferred XI (Id argue thats also the case for Lallana) then how is Ilori being treated any different? Surely if thats the case then Rodgers is being nothing if not consistent?

Sakho/Allen arent relied upon because they cant stay fit and are kept out of our strating XI because of it.

Ilori can't be relied upon to stay fit AND hasn't performed at a decent level previously so not only is he not included in our first team plans but he's also asked to go out somewhere where he can prove those things.

Where did I say anything about Allen not being indulged? I don't think Sakho is indulged. I think Allen and Lallana are. I think Johnson was. And I don't think Ilori has been let go because of his injury issues. I think he's been let go because the manager doesn't rate him.

Again journalists that are very close to the club have reported explicitly that Brendan simply didn't rate him. They've reported that he was also a committee pick and Brendan didn't fancy him. That's about all there is to it.

[CraigDS]

When did he get injured? At the 21's?

Sure he put on his Twitter that he was at the gym training etc.

I dunno mate, but he could do gym work (upper body) if he has a leg injury so he could of had it before.

He speaks about it in this interview with the Echo on the 20th Aug...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ilori-want-play-liverpool-fc-9890959

"I haven't played for a few months so the most important thing for me was to get back into action.

It was frustrating to get injured but at the same time I hadn't had a holiday for two years and you need some time off, so it came at the right time."

and

"The injury during the Euros was frustrating, I felt somehow and decided I had to come off but then I played the final and felt great.

It was frustrating not being able to start with the rest of the group in pre-season but it was better it happened then than in the season."

[CraigDS]

To answer the first part of your question, if it was any of those, you would find him jet-setting off to the states where the club's preferred doctors and surgeons seem to work. But, assuming that this wasn't going to happen in the case of Ilori and the causes behind his injury woes have been kept a total secret, then you're right, there is no way that I could know whether or not he had a recurring problem that wasn't checked out by experts.

But then again neither could you. There is no way that you could say with any certainty that he had those issues. You could only hazard a guess and that would be totally worthless given that you're going to be unable to prove any of it because his injury problems are going to be kept totally secret.

I offered up a suggestion, based on the fact we know for certain he has had injuries. That much we know is true.

What we don't know is who he has seen, who the club have sent him to, what the diagnosis is, etc. but them I'm not really making any judgement on that other than saying we're likely to of looked at his injury history when taking into account if to continue to develop him over another.

As for the manager not rating him, here is a quote from Andy Hunter's article on the subject,

"However, Rodgers appears to have been unconvinced by the London-born defender and he was made available ahead of deadline day."

And here's Brendan's personal mouthpiece Mr. James Pearce,

"Many of those who have been shown the door were players like Ilori who were lauded by the transfer committee rather than being deals that Rodgers was the driving force behind.


Out of the eight players who arrived at the club last summer, four have already gone with three of them – Mario Balotelli, Javier Manquillo and Lazar Markovic – viewed as committee picks.

Of course Rodgers isn’t in the business of cutting off his nose to spite his face. If he thought they were up to the task he would have kept them and played them. The bottom line is they, like Ilori, didn’t impress him, but it underlines the folly of signing players the manager isn’t 100% sold on."

Pretty damn explicit that Brendan didn't rate them. And that evidently includes Markovic and Manquillo as well.

I'm unsure if Pearce is his mouth piece anymore since the hatched job he did at the end of the season.

It's not more conjecture than me saying they've taken his injury record into account (which you are claiming is conjecture).

[jooneyisdagod]

I offered up a suggestion, based on the fact we know for certain he has had injuries. That much we know is true.

What we don't know is who he has seen, who the club have sent him to, what the diagnosis is, etc. but them I'm not really making any judgement on that other than saying we're likely to of looked at his injury history when taking into account if to continue to develop him over another.


I'm unsure if Pearce is his mouth piece anymore since the hatched job he did at the end of the season.

It's not more conjecture than me saying they've taken his injury record into account (which you are claiming is conjecture).

Three things.

1. Clearly your suggestion cannot be verified one way or the other given information is sparse. Let's stick to conjecture.

2. Both Pearce and Hunter are saying the same thing. And that is that Ilori is being let go because Brendan doesn't fancy him. Not a word about his injury troubles from either of them.

3. Both Pearce and Hunter obviously have contacts within the club. Pearce appeared at least to be close to Brendan. I think he continues to be close to Brendan, but you may disagree. It's not worth arguing the toss over. What I think we can both agree upon is that they both have contacts within the club. They are both reporting that Ilori was let go because the manager didn't rate him. They're both reporting that there has been a shift this summer towards Brendan's preferences in the market. To cut a long story short, they are corroborating each other's stories. And neither have mentioned that Ilori's injuries were the reason he was loaned out. In fact, I have yet to read that from any 'reliable' Liverpool journalist. Two of them at least have said though, that Ilori was loaned because he wasn't fancied. I think it's clear why he was let go.

[ThePeetmix]

I think it's as much the confusion fans have about how we use youth players.

Why did we offer Wisdom a contract, despite him not doing anything really to show he's good enough, and then loan him out again. I don't really see the point in it?

[Kelwell]

I think it's as much the confusion fans have about how we use youth players.

Why did we offer Wisdom a contract, despite him not doing anything really to show he's good enough, and then loan him out again. I don't really see the point in it?

Asset protection, so he will be worth more when we sell ?