Author Topic: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16  (Read 223567 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #240 on: October 4, 2015, 06:18:30 pm »
Blimey... We're actually doing OK by this...

Not great but ok... Maybe there is hope?
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #241 on: October 4, 2015, 06:18:58 pm »
After 8 games:

City +2
United -2
Liverpool -4
Arsenal -4
Spurs -7
Southampton -8
Chelsea -10

Shame we couldn't win today, but there's plenty of scope to gain in the APLT in the next few weeks. The most important thing is to win our home games though.
« Last Edit: October 4, 2015, 06:29:51 pm by rickardinho1 »

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #242 on: October 4, 2015, 06:20:46 pm »
See, we're joint third ;D
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Offline Deo

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #243 on: October 4, 2015, 06:21:15 pm »
Blimey... We're actually doing OK by this...

Not great but ok... Maybe there is hope?

Don't worry, after our next few games vs Spurs, Chelsea and City away, we'll plummet due to needing to win almost every game for like 3 months...

After 8 games:

City +2
United +/- 0
Liverpool -4
Arsenal -4
Spurs -7
Southampton -8
Chelsea -10

Shouldn't United be -2?
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Offline JackWard33

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #244 on: October 4, 2015, 06:21:48 pm »
Blimey... We're actually doing OK by this...

Not great but ok... Maybe there is hope?

Yeah tough schedule - if we're remotely in touch of top 4 by November we'll have a great shot at it

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #245 on: October 4, 2015, 06:25:03 pm »
Yeah tough schedule - if we're remotely in touch of top 4 by November we'll have a great shot at it

Err.. I wouldn't bet on it with our defence ;D
Don't worry, after our next few games vs Spurs, Chelsea and City away, we'll plummet due to needing to win almost every game for like 3 months...

Shouldn't United be -2?
But losing against city and Chelsea wouldn't make much difference by this system would it?

What par are they?
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #246 on: October 4, 2015, 06:31:25 pm »
Don't worry, after our next few games vs Spurs, Chelsea and City away, we'll plummet due to needing to win almost every game for like 3 months...

Shouldn't United be -2?
Yes, fixed that now. Thanks.

A win at Spurs putting us at -2 would be massive, as unlikely as it would be.

Offline Deo

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #247 on: October 4, 2015, 06:35:04 pm »
Err.. I wouldn't bet on it with our defence ;DBut losing against city and Chelsea wouldn't make much difference by this system would it?

What par are they?

Losing to spurs, city and chelsea away is the same as losing to west ham home. :/
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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #249 on: October 7, 2015, 08:27:28 pm »




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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #250 on: October 7, 2015, 08:27:42 pm »
Cheers Prof lad.
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Offline Prof

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #251 on: October 7, 2015, 08:31:36 pm »

Offline Robinred

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #252 on: October 7, 2015, 10:04:14 pm »
Never mind all that. Anyone else see the closing minutes of Simon Sharma's "Face of Britain" tonight?

Catch it on your BBC iplayer, the Singh twins stuff is amazing - I think Sharma's is a fan of the club and the city btw...
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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #253 on: October 8, 2015, 11:41:19 am »
APLT Full Table : Round 8
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Offline groove

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #254 on: October 8, 2015, 01:24:08 pm »
I mean looking at that makes the sacking of Rodgers now even odder*. Sack him in the summer? Sure. Sack him if we're still mid-table in January? Fine. Now though? We've not started that badly and we've only had our best player back for 3 games.

*Based on results alone, obviously. But these things don't happen in a vacuum. I guess if they caught wind Klopp was interested I guess they could have just sped things up.
« Last Edit: October 8, 2015, 01:25:39 pm by groove »

Offline johnny74

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #255 on: October 8, 2015, 01:54:39 pm »
I mean looking at that makes the sacking of Rodgers now even odder*. Sack him in the summer? Sure. Sack him if we're still mid-table in January? Fine. Now though? We've not started that badly and we've only had our best player back for 3 games.

*Based on results alone, obviously. But these things don't happen in a vacuum. I guess if they caught wind Klopp was interested I guess they could have just sped things up.

Agreed. And Man Utd have been grinding out roughly title-winning form (according to the APLT) since 12 games into Van Gaal's reign whilst producing uninspiring football and not looking like champions.

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #256 on: October 8, 2015, 07:08:27 pm »
Agreed. And Man Utd have been grinding out roughly title-winning form (according to the APLT) since 12 games into Van Gaal's reign whilst producing uninspiring football and not looking like champions.

No they haven't.
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Offline ShayGuevara

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #257 on: October 8, 2015, 07:36:07 pm »
I mean looking at that makes the sacking of Rodgers now even odder*. Sack him in the summer? Sure. Sack him if we're still mid-table in January? Fine. Now though? We've not started that badly and we've only had our best player back for 3 games.

*Based on results alone, obviously. But these things don't happen in a vacuum. I guess if they caught wind Klopp was interested I guess they could have just sped things up.

I think Klopp was the key factor in Rodgers sacking and had some impact as to why he lost the fans also.

It sets Klopp up pretty well though, if he can manage to get to the City game within a stones throw of top 4 (within 6pts) then he has a real chance of kicking on from there with all our toughest aways out of the way.



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Offline gazzam1963

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #258 on: October 17, 2015, 02:46:52 pm »
Played to par today which will do me , still on -4 with chelsea and city to come , pressing teams will be a lot easier against the easier teams and pressing at home like in the first 20 minutes will get the crowd going at anfield

Offline sminp

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #259 on: October 17, 2015, 03:12:03 pm »
Spurs drop 2 points as well importantly
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #260 on: October 18, 2015, 12:09:46 am »
United gained +2 today, whilst Spurs and Southampton dropped -2. Everyone else played to par.

After 9 games:

City +2
United +/- 0
Liverpool -4
Arsenal -4
Spurs -9
Southampton -10
Chelsea -10

Next weekend will definitely see some movement in the table with some key games; with Chelsea, City, Everton, and Southampton all having opportunities to gain points; and United, Arsenal, and ourselves needing a win to maintain ground. A good opportunity for us to take advantage of Arsenal and/or a United slip-up's perhaps:

West Ham vs Chelsea (par 1)
Bournemouth vs Spurs (par 3)
Arsenal (par 3) vs Everton (par 1)
United (par 3) vs City (par 1)
Liverpool (par 3) vs Southampton (par1)

« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 12:18:28 am by rickardinho1 »

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #261 on: October 18, 2015, 12:19:28 am »
That's pretty crazy for Spurs to be so low, didn't expect that, been quietly impressed with them all season
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #262 on: October 18, 2015, 12:31:10 am »
That's pretty crazy for Spurs to be so low, didn't expect that, been quietly impressed with them all season
Although they've been impressive overall they were really sloppy in the first few games of the season which is where they dropped most points.

Not winning home games and failing to win par 1's to make up for it isn't a recipe for APLT success, even though they've played some tough teams at home to be fair.

United a 0-1 (-1) - lost due to OG
Stoke h 2-2 (-2) - led 2-0 with 15 mins left
Leicester a 1-1 (-2) - led 1-0 with 8 mins left
Everton h 0-0 (-2)
Sunderland a 1-0 (par)
Palace h 1-0 (par)
Swansea a 2-2 (par)
City h 4-1 (par)
Liverpool h 0-0 (-2)



Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #263 on: October 18, 2015, 02:36:38 am »
That's pretty crazy for Spurs to be so low, didn't expect that, been quietly impressed with them all season

Really? Apart from the Man City win, they've lost to Arsenal and Man Utd and drawn to us, Swansea, Everton, Leicester and Stoke. The only other wins they have in the league are against Palace and Sunderland. Take that City game out of the picture and they are having a very mid-table season.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #264 on: October 18, 2015, 05:50:50 am »
Probably an odd question on the back of their poor performance vs United, but does anyone think Everton could become a threat?

They're only on -6 currently, having already played 7 of last years top 8 teams in the opening 9 fixtures, including their 4 hardest par 3's (United, City, Chelsea, and Liverpool at home) in which they are a combined -8:

Watford h 2-2 (-2)
Southampton a 3-0 (+2)
City h 0-2 (-3)
Spurs a 0-0 (par)
Chelsea h 3-1 (par)
Swansea a 0-0 (par)
WBA a 3-2 (+2)
Liverpool h 1-1 (-2)
United h 0-3 (-3)

After  their next fixture at Arsenal, they have an incredibly good run of fixtures until New Year:

Arsenal a (par 1)
Sunderland h
West Ham a (par 1)
Aston Villa h
Bournemouth a
Palace h
Norwich a
Leicester h
Newcastle a
Stoke h

The lack of many par 1's probably won't see them gain much ground in the APLT, but the opportunity is certainly there for them to get plenty of points on the board of they find some form.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 06:05:21 am by rickardinho1 »

Offline Fiasco

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #265 on: October 18, 2015, 05:59:35 am »

No, they'll finish 8th-10th. They really aren't that good. Their home form is quite poor, last year it was and this year again it's started off badly. They don't do expectation well. At Goodison their fans expect them to win every single game and they do not like the pressure and teams often figure them out very easily there. It's not a surprise that many of their best results are away from home.

Their defence isn't great either. Lots of fawning about how great Stones is, how good Funes Mori has settled etc but they'll still concede plenty this season. Very reliant on Lukaku, Barkely is still inconsistent and the rest of them are journeymen, youngsters and average/good players. Not the best combination.


And just to add a bit to this mate seeing as I've moved it. The problem with Everton is that they lose when you don't think they will, and they will win when you don't fancy them to. The run of games they've got coming up will lead to a lot of confidence from their fans. '15 from 15, we're gonna be second by the end of November', etc. It never happens. Because Sunderland or Villa will go to Goodison and win, or they'll draw 3 on the bounce and lose all momentum. Just when you think they might go on a run and gatecrash it they fuck up time after time. It's amazing.


Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #266 on: October 18, 2015, 06:00:18 am »
No, they'll finish 8th-10th. They really aren't that good. Their home form is quite poor, last year it was and this year again it's started off badly. They don't do expectation well. At Goodison their fans expect them to win every single game and they do not like the pressure and teams often figure them out very easily there. It's not a surprise that many of their best results are away from home.

Their defence isn't great either. Lots of fawning about how great Stones is, how good Funes Mori has settled etc but they'll still concede plenty this season. Very reliant on Lukaku, Barkely is still inconsistent and the rest of them are journeymen, youngsters and average/good players. Not the best combination.
I agree with you for the most part, but they haven't done too badly against non-top 5-6 this season who they're +2 against so far in APLT terms. Every slip up until NY will be costly though as almost all their games are par 3's.

Given how the fixtures have lined up for them I think they'll probably have quite a "false" position in the real PL table as they have loads of winnable (par 3) fixtures, but the APLT will paint a different picture as every draw or loss will be a -2 or -3 for them and they have most of their par 1's in the second half of the season which should see them dropping many points in the real table but not doing as badly in the APLT.

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #267 on: October 18, 2015, 01:59:13 pm »



Offline Defendant

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #268 on: October 18, 2015, 02:12:25 pm »
Thanks Prof. looking good!

Offline Blue Coop

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #269 on: October 18, 2015, 05:15:45 pm »
Big game next week for this; United v City.

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #270 on: October 18, 2015, 08:58:32 pm »
In 14/15 after 10 games we were -8. A win against Southampton will see us in really good shape on -4 and keep us above the 71pt line. Silly dropped points at home - that's how the APLT kills you.

Offline Nessy76

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #271 on: October 18, 2015, 10:40:47 pm »




Thanks Prof.

The stand out for me with this table is still just how poorly Chelsea are doing. Despite winning this weekend, they remain on -10 in the APLT. To turn that around, to get the sort of points total you would expect to see from a team that won the league, they would need to win five par one matches.

So let's look at which Par One matches Chelsea still have.

West Ham (24/10/15)
Stoke City (7/11/15)
Spurs (29/11/15)
Manchester United (28/12/15)
Crystal Palace (3/1/16)
Arsenal (23/1/16)
Southampton (27/2/16)
Liverpool (12/3/16)
Swansea (9/4/16)

That's nine games, of which they would have to win five. And while it's easy enough to pick out five games you might reasonably expect a club like Chelsea to have a good chance to win, the APLT has shown over and over just how hard those games are to win consistently in reality.

The five "softest" Par 1s in that list by last season's league position would be: West Ham (12th) Palace (10th) Stoke (9th) Swansea (8th) Southampton (7th), those are the sort of fixtures that you look at in the APLT and think a draw is probably a good result, but there's a chance of a win. They aren't bankers by any stretch.

You also have to reckon on them not dropping any further points in their Par 3 games, or they would also need to start getting wins at Anfield, White Hart Lane and so on. Although title-winning sides might have a chance of winning games like those, teams that go into games like those needing a win to get back into the race probably aren't going to pull it off.

In order to win the league, the assumption is, you have to rack up something in the region of ninety points. For Chelsea, that is already looking extremely unlikely, and it's probable they would have to break some league records in the process. Winning streaks of more than ten games are still extremely rare, for any side, and for a team that has struggled as much as the current champions, it's hard to see where that kind of run is going to come from.

At the moment, they are on eleven points, from nine games. That would leave them needing almost eighty points from twenty nine games, at an average of over 2.7 points per game.

It's often said that you can't win the title before Christmas, but you can definitely lose it then. Chelsea are now in a situation, a quarter of the way through the fixture list, where they already need to be doing something extraordinary just to get back into the race. They can hope that Manchester City collapse, and that the eventual total points score is lower, but they are starting to depend on that hope as far as defending their title goes.

Some have questioned whether they can even crack the top four. And certainly, the APLT shows that too will be difficult for them. The assumption there is that a team that finishes with 71 points or more should have a good chance of making that fourth Champions League berth. This rather neatly corresponds with a drop of half a point per game on title winning form. While the APLT is less useful as a tool in working out which games you need to win to make that measure, it does provide a benchmark.

Chelsea are on -10. The 71 point line finishes on -19 at the end of the season. In other words, Chelsea have to play within nine points of Championship winning form from here on to get into the top four. If they revert to type from here on in, they should realistically make that target comfortably. They need to lose three more Par 3 matches, draw five Par 3 matches, or variations on that to drop below a fourth place target. Alternatively, they could drop single points in Par 1 matches, such as those at Anfield, Old Trafford and the Emirates, although that is less costly.

If they are in trouble at the end of the year, of course, you can expect the chequebook to come out and for them to try and buy their way back into contention. With the riches available from Champions League participation at stake, and a very large wage bill to cover, it would be no surprise to see them try and break their club transfer record in an attempt to keep that place.

But, while we're about it, let's have a look at their most difficult remaining Par 3 matches, and see if they really do have cause for confidence.

Still to visit Stamford Bridge this season are "Par 1" clubs:
Manchester City, Manchester United, Tottenham, Liverpool, Stoke, Everton, West Brom and West Ham.
(Of course, playing at home will make these Par 3 matches, I'm just looking at the "strongest" visitors from an APLT perspective.)

If you ask me if they will finish in the top four, I still think they probably will, but it is very unusual to see Chelsea struggling this badly this early, and they need to turn their form around very quickly or they could well be left behind.
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Offline the_red_pill

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #272 on: October 18, 2015, 10:49:40 pm »
Thanks Prof!
That actually looks good. Even if we only muster draws away to City and Chelsea, we'd be doing good enough sofar.
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Offline rickardinho1

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #273 on: October 18, 2015, 11:09:57 pm »
Nice post Nessy.

Considering that no team has ever finished higher than 5th after starting like Chelsea have I'd say the title race is gone for them and their target should be 4th.

The next two game weeks are crucial in the race for top 4:

We have a tough par 3 vs Southampton followed by a par 1 at Chelsea, and Chelsea have an "easy" par 1 and then us at home, so a lot of things can happen in these two game weeks with regards to the APLT:

Best case scenario: Liverpool 2 wins and Chelsea 2 losses would see us gain +2 and them drop -4 to make the gap between us -2 and -14, 12 APLT points.

Worst case scenario: Liverpool 2 losses and Chelsea 2 wins sees us lose -4 and them gain +2, so we would be tied on -8.

It's hugely important not to drop points at home, and the Chelsea away game is a massive opportunity to do some serious, serious damage to their chances of top 4. The fact that we could be 12 pts ahead or tied depending on the next two Gw's shows the importance of good results now in any case.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 11:11:32 pm by rickardinho1 »

Offline xRedmanLFCx

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #274 on: October 18, 2015, 11:24:02 pm »
Thanks Prof!
That actually looks good. Even if we only muster draws away to City and Chelsea, we'd be doing good enough sofar.

If we muster draws away to both of them we will be doing brilliantly if we play to par in our other games. But even if we lose one or both of those, as long as we win our other games in between we are well positioned. The upcoming home games are vital. Atmosphere should help.
I always said we had the best two teams on Merseyside… Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves.

Offline gazzam1963

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #275 on: October 19, 2015, 03:43:19 pm »
I can certainly see a boost to the atmosphere at home due to the fast pressing we witnessed at tottenham , just need to turn it to our advantage points and results wise

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #276 on: October 22, 2015, 08:40:02 am »
APLT Full Table : Round 9
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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #277 on: October 23, 2015, 05:21:02 am »
I was curious to take a look back at where we were after 9 rounds in previous APLTs to try and get a sense of what where we are now might indicate:

LFC APLT AFTER 9 ROUNDS ONLY (finishing score, finishing position):
2015/16: -4   (finished ??, ??)
2014/15: -7   (finished -28, 6th)
2013/14: -5   (finished -6, 2nd)

I couldn't get the prior year graphs to work, so maybe someone else who has access to the data could advise?

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #278 on: October 23, 2015, 06:07:50 am »
Thing about Chelsea is that, once they get on form, they'll go on a run of +3 game wins. Whats more relevant for them is how happy they are with their manager, how confident. Fix that, and they won't care who they play or where.

For me that hinges on whether Mourinho can get his shit together, or whether they sack him.

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Re: The Alternative Premier League Table 2015-16
« Reply #279 on: October 23, 2015, 07:39:04 am »
Thing about Chelsea is that, once they get on form, they'll go on a run of +3 game wins. Whats more relevant for them is how happy they are with their manager, how confident. Fix that, and they won't care who they play or where.

For me that hinges on whether Mourinho can get his shit together, or whether they sack him.

As far as I'm aware, there's no such thing as a "+3 game" in this model, is there? Every game is either par 1 or par 3? It is that which makes it hard in this model just to keep pedaling and maintaining a flat line (i.e. staying on par, which is effectively title-winning form), let alone pushing the line "up".