Author Topic: Harvey Elliott (Harvey Daniel James Elliott)  (Read 605559 times)

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #400 on: October 11, 2019, 06:26:02 pm »
I havent gone that far though have I.

You yourself have felt the need to ask what message is being sent based on the content that "nice" kids mock the disabled. That would suggest for me that we need to look at the situation.  I imagine in the 1950's nice landlords didnt want to rent to dogs, blacks and Irish. Thankfully we have moved on and now anyone holding such a view would be classed as a racist twat even at 16. With reagards to the disabled, weve still got some way to go it seems.

What age do you think we should draw a line at kids being eejits? A 4 year old says something he should get 40 lashes and fucked in jail for 6 months?
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #401 on: October 11, 2019, 06:40:01 pm »
I havent gone that far though have I.

You yourself have felt the need to ask what message is being sent based on the content that "nice" kids mock the disabled. That would suggest for me that we need to look at the situation.  I imagine in the 1950's nice landlords didnt want to rent to dogs, blacks and Irish. Thankfully we have moved on and now anyone holding such a view would be classed as a racist twat even at 16. With reagards to the disabled, weve still got some way to go it seems.

I totally agree that we have some way to go.  But I really don’t think that’s the case societally in this incident.  Kids really have no idea of the meaning of the word.  I’ve even had to admonish a kid who had a brother with DS for using it and he literally had no idea that it was connected.

For me, a fifteen year old doing this needs education.  Nothing else.  Because nothing else will have as much impact as education here.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #402 on: October 11, 2019, 06:43:49 pm »
Social media on-pitch bans are so bullshit I don't even know where to begin.

For a guy like him, a fine would actually even be felt. People will always be stupid and do stupid shit, especially at his age. He was fifteen damn years at the time. Whoever didn't say or do stupid shit at 15 cast the first stone. The FA need to get over themselves and get off their high horses sometime.

If someone proves they're an idiot on social media, then block him/her and move on with your life, just like someone like me who wouldn't touch Twitter even with a forklift and use Facebook only for the chat app. Snitching to the FA do-gooders ain't cool first of all and due to the Streisand effect more people now get to hear about Harvey Elliott doing something stupid when he was 15 then otherwise would, potentially making other kids think what he did was edgy or something. Then again there's no need to ban them from doing their job for that. There's only one "sanctioning body" that should have the ability to ban players for off-field idiocy and that's their own employer - the club, that pays their salary. If the FA had kindly asked the club to take him out for a week, they could've walked out with some moral high ground left intact but instead they resort to this lunacy. The FA are not their employer and they're not the police either.

Had he screamed that towards Kane on the pitch, of course that's a straight red and a ban for misconduct, but this is outside any legitimate FA jurisdiction and should be fully in the hands of the club he plays for.

It's gotten beyond tedious this past decade. FA is supposed to stand for "Football Association" not "Twitter Police". They should get in line, and quickly.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 06:54:58 pm by Linudden »
Linudden.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #403 on: October 11, 2019, 06:48:25 pm »
I totally agree that we have some way to go.  But I really don’t think that’s the case societally in this incident.  Kids really have no idea of the meaning of the word.  I’ve even had to admonish a kid who had a brother with DS for using it and he literally had no idea that it was connected.

For me, a fifteen year old doing this needs education.  Nothing else.  Because nothing else will have as much impact as education here.

I had no idea of the connotations either until this episode.
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Offline RedForeverTT

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #404 on: October 11, 2019, 06:58:32 pm »
Whether he meant it or not it is the wrong thing to say and it is better to make that stupid mistake at 15 than later. The club didn’t blame him in the statement but just made sure he learnt not to do it again. Elliot will mature from this experience.

Now the whole squad knows what not to say.

Obviously, with us being a high profile club every media or opposing fan will seize on this opportunity to knock him and knock us. There is no need to be defensive or say Bernardo Silva was worse.

We are better than that to take the bait.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #405 on: October 11, 2019, 07:21:04 pm »
I had no idea of the connotations either until this episode.
And if it were you I would not have any qualms about a two week ban.  You are old enough to know better
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #406 on: October 11, 2019, 07:23:30 pm »
And if it were you I would not have any qualms about a two week ban.  You are old enough to know better

Exactly. Ignorance is no defence, but we're talking about a child. Education should be his punishment, not hung drawn and quartered which it seems some people want.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #407 on: October 11, 2019, 07:39:19 pm »
I totally agree that we have some way to go.  But I really don’t think that’s the case societally in this incident.  Kids really have no idea of the meaning of the word.  I’ve even had to admonish a kid who had a brother with DS for using it and he literally had no idea that it was connected.

For me, a fifteen year old doing this needs education.  Nothing else.  Because nothing else will have as much impact as education here.

Hmmm  coupled with the impression he did, I think that defence is shaky at best.  I also agree on the education is whats required. However to be seen to not hand out any punishment would send out an even worse message societally. Its a 14 day ban, not the end of the world but a punishment was required.

Its definitely the case societally.  I experience it on probably a weekly basis. Nothing as base as Harveys video, but the constant patronising comments and 'jokes' that go unchecked. I am pleased to say that if similar was done to a person of colour they wouldnt go unchecked (generally speaking)

The kid with a DS brother rather proves my point. Do you think if the same kid had a black mate he'd think it ok to use the N word?

As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #408 on: October 11, 2019, 07:41:40 pm »
What age do you think we should draw a line at kids being eejits? A 4 year old says something he should get 40 lashes and fucked in jail for 6 months?

Sorry Barney but replies like this make you sound a right thick twat. If you dont get it, you dont get it, but in that case its best generally to keep your ignorance to yourself.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #409 on: October 11, 2019, 07:43:18 pm »
Sorry Barney but replies like this make you sound a right thick twat. If you dont get it, you dont get it, but in that case its best generally to keep your ignorance to yourself.

I have 2 disabled brothers. I get it very well thanks.
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #410 on: October 11, 2019, 07:49:21 pm »
I have 2 disabled brothers. I get it very well thanks.

no you really, really  dont, its not the first time youve moaned about punishing Harvey when its got fuck all to do with Harvey or his age. If the penny didnt drop previously, I doubt it will now.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #411 on: October 11, 2019, 07:56:07 pm »
no you really, really  dont, its not the first time youve moaned about punishing Harvey when its got fuck all to do with Harvey or his age. If the penny didnt drop previously, I doubt it will now.

Ok. And your opinion is the only one that matters yeah? You've yet to answer my question above anyway. At what age do you think a child becomes responsible and should know the connotations of every word in existence?
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #412 on: October 11, 2019, 07:58:46 pm »
Ok. And your opinion is the only one that matters yeah?

The point is you dont have any understanding of what my opinion is.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline stoopid yank

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #413 on: October 11, 2019, 08:03:49 pm »
A 15 year old Fulham kid mocks a rival London clubs player. Regrettable, but understandable.

442oons characterizes Kane as "mentally challenged" all the time, portraying him as dimwitted and slow, with slurred speech. Is the implication he is diasabled there? If not, what is the difference? Why not the same outrage there?
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #414 on: October 11, 2019, 08:05:09 pm »
Hmmm  coupled with the impression he did, I think that defence is shaky at best.  I also agree on the education is whats required. However to be seen to not hand out any punishment would send out an even worse message societally. Its a 14 day ban, not the end of the world but a punishment was required.

Its definitely the case societally.  I experience it on probably a weekly basis. Nothing as base as Harveys video, but the constant patronising comments and 'jokes' that go unchecked. I am pleased to say that if similar was done to a person of colour they wouldnt go unchecked (generally speaking)

The kid with a DS brother rather proves my point. Do you think if the same kid had a black mate he'd think it ok to use the N word?


No he wouldn’t have thought it was ok.

But that’s because everybody knows what the word means and the connotations of it.  Almost nobody does with the word person that I find irritating (at that age anyway).  That’s a failure in society’s approach to attitudes towards disabled people as a whole.

And that’s why I think that for a 15 year old, the correct action is to educate rather than punish .  An older player would be different.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #415 on: October 11, 2019, 08:23:42 pm »
No he wouldn’t have thought it was ok.

It was a rhetorical question.  ;D


Quote
  That’s a failure in society’s approach to attitudes towards disabled people as a whole.

Exactly my point.  However it doesnt stop with people not knowing the meaning behind that particular, word there is a lot, lot more to the issue.

Quote
And that’s why I think that for a 15 year old, the correct action is to educate rather than punish .  An older player would be different.

And thats why hes got off very lightly. The punishment will have little or no effect on the club or the player. It was a token gesture that absolutely had to be made and I think its well proportioned.  Id love it if the club released some details of Harvey meeting with some disabled fans, maybe with Hendo or Milly alongside him and we all move on.
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #416 on: October 11, 2019, 08:29:24 pm »
It was a rhetorical question.  ;D


Exactly my point.  However it doesnt stop with people not knowing the meaning behind that particular, word there is a lot, lot more to the issue.

And thats why hes got off very lightly. The punishment will have little or no effect on the club or the player. It was a token gesture that absolutely had to be made and I think its well proportioned.  Id love it if the club released some details of Harvey meeting with some disabled fans, maybe with Hendo or Milly alongside him and we all move on.
I think we broadly agree, I just think you’ve got to treat kids slightly differently ....

Anyway, the great thing about football is that anyone can enjoy it and almost anyone can play it in some form.. it’s almost a universal sport and it should be accessible to all.
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“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #417 on: October 11, 2019, 08:31:41 pm »
I think we broadly agree, I just think you’ve got to treat kids slightly differently ....

Anyway, the great thing about football is that anyone can enjoy it and almost anyone can play it in some form.. it’s almost a universal sport and it should be accessible to all.

 :thumbup
As I've said before, the Full English is just the base upon which the Scots/Welsh/NI have improved upon. Sorry but the Full English is the worst of the British breakfasts.

Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #418 on: October 11, 2019, 08:34:02 pm »
Id love it if the club released some details of Harvey meeting with some disabled fans, maybe with Hendo or Milly alongside him and we all move on.

Or we could let the club and Harvey deal with it privately and move on anyway instead of publicly shaming a child for a silly mistake?
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Offline Kenny's Jacket

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #419 on: October 11, 2019, 08:42:44 pm »
Or we could let the club and Harvey deal with it privately and move on anyway instead of publicly shaming a child for a silly mistake?

Christ you get worse

Good night Barney
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Offline Barneylfc∗

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #420 on: October 11, 2019, 08:45:21 pm »
Night mate  :wave
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #421 on: October 11, 2019, 09:03:05 pm »
?
Is anyone suggesting that mocking disabled people is ok? I haven’t seen any comments like that.

I take it Donald Trump doesn't post on here then? :D

He's made a stupid, offensive comment at 15 and received a proportionate punishment.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #422 on: October 11, 2019, 10:00:53 pm »
It's actually better than that. It's saying don't mock such people even in private. Even if you're a kid.


Is right. He'll learn.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #423 on: October 11, 2019, 10:55:57 pm »
No he wouldn’t have thought it was ok.

But that’s because everybody knows what the word means and the connotations of it.  Almost nobody does with the word person that I find irritating (at that age anyway).  That’s a failure in society’s approach to attitudes towards disabled people as a whole.

And that’s why I think that for a 15 year old, the correct action is to educate rather than punish .  An older player would be different.

Pretty clear from the video that he has at least a simple understanding of what the word means or connotes. I don't see how anyone could complain about the message a two week ban sends really. And the punishment isn't mutually exclusive with the educating option. Can feel pretty sure various liaisons at the club have helped on that front, and perhaps in the formal punishment he receives from the FA he'll get some educational requirements/opportunities set out.

It's actually better than that. It's saying don't mock such people even in private. Even if you're a kid.
Yep, it's that simple

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #424 on: October 12, 2019, 02:56:53 pm »
2-week ban seems fine. No serious impact on his life/career but it teaches him a lesson.

As for what he did - I think that unlike racial slurs, words like this that disparage the disabled have only seen serious, widespread condemnation for about half of my life. I myself used the R-word (the word Elliott used doesn't exist here in the States) plenty when I was an adolescent, without really understanding what it meant and simply associating it with "stupid." Eventually, I learned otherwise and stopped. I try not to judge people for things like this unless they keep doing it even after they fully understand how hurtful it can be. So, unless he does this sort of thing again, I think he deserves for everyone to move on from it. Even if he only stops "so he doesn't get in trouble again." That kind of behavior tends to become genuine after a while.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #425 on: October 12, 2019, 03:11:06 pm »
Maybe it would be nice if the Club organised some voluntary work for Harvey with a disabled group, use it as an opportunity to help educate Harvey and the wider community about the matter.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 03:12:55 pm by Al 666 »
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #426 on: October 12, 2019, 07:06:41 pm »
Maybe it would be nice if the Club organised some voluntary work for Harvey with a disabled group, use it as an opportunity to help educate Harvey and the wider community about the matter.

I agree but behind closed doors.

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #427 on: October 12, 2019, 07:46:36 pm »
It's actually better than that. It's saying don't mock such people even in private. Even if you're a kid.

The punishment will have little or no effect on the club or the player. It was a token gesture that absolutely had to be made and I think its well proportioned.

is right
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Offline Jon2lfc

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #428 on: October 30, 2019, 07:53:00 pm »
It's been bugging me for quite a while... Harvey reminds me of someone... hmmmmmmm

It's just dawned on me!

He has the same face and gait as Khabib Nurmagomedov!

Could even be the same person. Would explain why Harvey doesn't play all that much. Fight training can be intense. Plus recovering from title fights.
And that top-knot is probably stuck on just to throw us..

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #429 on: October 30, 2019, 08:26:54 pm »
It's been bugging me for quite a while... Harvey reminds me of someone... hmmmmmmm

It's just dawned on me!

He has the same face and gait as Khabib Nurmagomedov!

Could even be the same person. Would explain why Harvey doesn't play all that much. Fight training can be intense. Plus recovering from title fights.
And that top-knot is probably stuck on just to throw us..

Who the fuck is that?!
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #430 on: October 30, 2019, 08:30:59 pm »
Who the fuck is that?!

He's a young lad we signed from Fulham earlier this year ;D

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #431 on: October 30, 2019, 09:08:16 pm »
Who the fuck is that?!

A UFC fighter

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #432 on: October 30, 2019, 09:55:46 pm »
Incredible decision making from a 16 year old, always passes the ball and never tries to play for himself. He's more than ready for some Premier League appearances off the bench.
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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #433 on: October 30, 2019, 10:05:12 pm »
i thought he was quality for his age most definetly...some nice passing and cross to Origi should have been goal...

made one big mistake on the line, but other than that...he was among our best players on the pitch..

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #434 on: October 30, 2019, 10:15:38 pm »
It's been bugging me for quite a while... Harvey reminds me of someone... hmmmmmmm

It's just dawned on me!

He has the same face and gait as Khabib Nurmagomedov!

Could even be the same person. Would explain why Harvey doesn't play all that much. Fight training can be intense. Plus recovering from title fights.
And that top-knot is probably stuck on just to throw us..

Oh fuck off with that. I thought you were going to say Messi.
Rick for the rikes, prick for the pricks

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Offline Crimson

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #435 on: October 30, 2019, 10:20:39 pm »
Worked his bollocks off throughout the match. Really impressed by his touch and game intelligence. Cracking player.
I have no idea what I’m taking about

Offline macmanamanaman

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #436 on: October 30, 2019, 10:25:31 pm »
sorta like Kewell
"A Football team is like a Piano: You need 8 people to carry it and 3 to play the damn thing" - Shankly

Offline Lastrador

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #437 on: October 30, 2019, 10:43:32 pm »
i thought he was quality for his age most definetly...some nice passing and cross to Origi should have been goal...

made one big mistake on the line, but
other than that...he was among our best players on the pitch..
Tbf, the pass that Gomez played to him before that was horrible, put him in an absolute terrible position.

Offline Giono

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #438 on: October 30, 2019, 10:45:57 pm »
I lovehis work rate to go along with his obvious skills.
"I am a great believer in luck and the harder I work the more of it I have." Stephen Leacock

Offline Magz50

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Re: Welcome Harvey
« Reply #439 on: October 30, 2019, 10:46:22 pm »
Had a great game today, mistake aside, (he's only a youngin). Tons of potential!