Topic: Those chants

[rob1966]

I think I remember that case. There's some really sick people around, unfortunately. 🫤

I still remember it, was 2002.

A few years ago a young lad from Liverpool who was studying at Manchester University was punched by some manc twat because of his accent. The poor kid died as a result of that punch. The c**t was never caught & is still probably walking the streets harbouring his hatred of all things scouse.

They did get him, he was a 24 yr old and he got 21 months for Manslaughter as it was a one punch killing

[Andy82lfc]

I still remember it, was 2002.

They did get him, he was a 24 yr old and he got 21 months for Manslaughter as it was a one punch killing

Just 21 months (likely less than a year real terms) for killing someone so young when you have knowingly tried to physically damage them? That’s absolutely fucking wild.

[Coyler]

Honestly I didn't used to believe this and was convinced there was an element of "bringing it on ourselves" in terms of the actual hatred - I'd had jibes and whilst poor taste still mild stick for being Scouse but it was around Christmas I was dropping my mate off near Manchester Airport and stopped for petrol.

The person in front of me (foreign lad) had a Man City shirt on and the woman working the tills gave him some stick for it and he mentioned that he just supported football so had Man U and other kits too - in my head I go "this is no different than maybe liking Torino and Lazio" (for example, just two teams, don't read into it) if you were English and so when I get to the front and she makes a comment I just deflect it as a "no harm no foul" thing. What is key here is that due to having lived in Yorkshire more or less since 18 my accent (especially when tired) is very flat due to the mixed influence on it and so she must have assumed I was from Manchester as she went on to go "even if that (insert term I won't type) doesn't get it with football at least he isn't a bin dipper".

I was flabbergasted - you are at work mate for one and it hasn't been provoked by anything. I'd had had more time for her if she had picked up the Scouse in my accent and had a go at me directly to be honest as the deadpan kind of "this is normal" attitude she showed to making clear her dislike/hatred of our city just blew my mind.

I will say that in the circles I run socially and professionally you don't tend to get the level of ingrained prejudice that many of you experience and I know I am lucky for that but seeing it first hand almost broke the glass on this as I'd previously been dismissive of it.

For hatred of people from another city to permeate your life so much is a horrible existence to live and I almost pity the people who feel this way

Honestly I almost feel privileged to have avoided it for so much of my life but after seeing it first hand (and this is relatively mild as far as it goes) it makes so much more sense now why their fans in the ground behave the way they do and is a testament to our city that we do our best to rise above it (the odd "oh manchester, is full of shit" and Andy's dislike of southerners aside)

This is the kind of post that makes you probably the most compelling contributor here. Struggling with your greys but often describing a development from almost black to almost white. No dogma and no words for words' sake. Love it.

[Coyler]

Just 21 months (likely less than a year real terms) for killing someone so young when you have knowingly tried to physically damage them? That’s absolutely fucking wild.

Incidents like this should probably be borne in mind when people talk flippantly online about "sorting people out" in alleyways because they couldn't handle a verbal argument. Gets my goat.

[ianburns252]

This is the kind of post that makes you probably the most compelling contributor here. Struggling with your greys but often describing a development from almost black to almost white. No dogma and no words for words' sake. Love it.

Very kind mate but there are so many here more articulate, more experienced, and more well versed in the overall history than I am.

Similar to what I said to 666 in the Conspiracy thread - I feel like I have had the wool pulled from my eyes a bit this year with a number of things.

I have been lucky, probably protected to an extent by being privileged growing up so not seeing some of the worst behaviours in society, but it began for real after Paris and actually experiencing things first hand for the first time that I began to change my view.

I remember seeing people in Athens streaming up the stairs in the stadium with their eyes running due to being tear gassed but it doesn't hit the same when it is other people (especially if you don't know them).

At Paris I was there with two mates who I worked with in London - Liverpool fans but they support the team for the glory not for the history and culture. I was texting them while outside Gate Z (they were in the posh seats so had not had any issues) and even after the game or on the way home they never once actually asked how I was or what it was like as because they couldn't fathom that experience not being your own fault they just didn't get it or try to get it. Since then we aren't as close as I lost a lot of trust in them for their lack of empathy or solidarity.

My Dad was at Hillsborough but he has never spoken to me about it - my mum has a bit in terms of how she felt at home with me worry about my dad but I've never heard it from him. It was only after being on this board for a few years and "getting to know" some of the posters (in terms of reading their posts, learning about them that way etc) a bit that the stories on here and the work by the likes of Mr Scranton really moved it from me knowing Hillsborough was bad, knowing in an almost mechanical way that I should feel a certain way and should do certain things (Don't buy the S*n for example) but I didn't start to feel people's pain until I had been here for a few years.

I found people like Spion and Rob's experiences (and many others of course but they come to mind first) hard to understand because, if I am honest, I have had more direct abuse in Liverpool (homophobic stuff when growing up and also shit for being emo/metal - my sister had it worse in the city centre than I did when a group of girls beat up her and a friend of hers for being gothy) than elsewhere but that I put down to being a teenager then vs being an adult when I have been in other cities. Again - I have either not understood the seriousness of things (in my first job I was told to be "less Scouse on the phone" - I thought it meant so the communication was clearer over the phone but I get now it comes from a place of prejudice; my second one of the audit managers sang "sign on" at me on a staff night out - again I hadn't experienced what it felt like to not be able to afford food and to have to sign on at that age so I put it down as banter. There is also the fact that I am inherently conditioned to try to please people and be liked so it takes a lot for me to see the bad - this has changed as I have gotten older and come to accept myself more) and so it has only been recently where I have been more aware to it and once it happens you suddenly start to understand and see it properly.

I have had my world view changed from growing up with a mum who taught me that everything should be fair and so I believed that and thought everyone else would too - I now know that is bullshit

I have had my world view changed from trusting authority and believing in the system - countless things mean I am now more wary and see through the haze more

I wish everyone could be as lucky (not the right phrase but the best I can get to) as I have been to avoid most of the negativity that society now brings but this is the hand we are dealt and so working together, educating people of the world, and looking out for each other is what we have to do

[Son of Spion]

That's a very interesting post, Ian.

I think our outlooks are shaped by our lived experience. So unless a person actually lives something, it can be more difficult for them to understand and empathise with those who have. I think that's quite natural and normal too.

It can be quite the eye-opener when a new lived experience changes a previously held general viewpoint, though. On a completely different topic altogether (yet still relevant I think) I got into the caring profession because I thought it was about caring and empathy. It's not though, it's about getting to one job, getting in and out then onto the next as quickly as possible. It's about your employer making money. Corners are cut, certain clients are neglected and staff are run ragged.

I got into counselling because I believed it was something my life experience would lend itself to quite well. I believed it would be full of good people doing good things. In many ways it is too, but there's also too many ego maniacs in it. Between my training, qualifying and today, it's changed beyond all recognition. A conveyor belt of get them in, throw a tiny number of sessions the client's way, then ship them out. Fill in a million forms. Dance like puppets on strings in order to try to attract any funding available. I could go on, but what I'm saying is we can believe one thing, but it's only when our lived experience shows us different, that we genuinely see what's really going on.

I had a rather romantic view of the caring professions, but the reality is that they're simply about money. There are so many good people in the professions, but most are burnt out and disillusioned. They're often run by people who don't actually care, too. Now I'd never have known and understood this unless I actually lived it.

A lot of people outside our city can't relate to our experiences either. They don't know what it's like to be hated simply for coming from the village, town or city they live in. How many other clubs' fans can genuinely say they've been the victim of government conspiracy? We have, over Hillsborough, but who else can really relate to us on that? They don't know what that feels like. They have no clue about the effect it has on us as a City, a community, a Club, as individuals. They've not lived it and have never personally known and felt it. Only experiencing something similar will genuinely alter their viewpoint. Look at how our own fanbase changed after Heysel the Hillsborough. Mindsets changed overnight.

Regarding abuse in own own City. I know how that feels too. I grew up with a major love/hate relationship with our City. I had a foot in two different camps. A Spion Kop regular and utterly fanatical about LFC, but in the late seventies onwards also a 'weirdo' Numan/Bowie/Cure head who scallies wanted to kick off on because I wore black clothes and had dyed hair. I could relate many a horror story of negotiating Liverpool back then.

In my counselling I used to work with young people in the city centre. The horror stories I heard from so many of them about being abused, spat at, attacked and scarred both mentally and physically were heartbreaking. All just because of how they looked. Now most people wouldn't be able to relate to being abused and attacked simply for being themselves. Similarly, it can often be difficult for heterosexuals to really understand what it feels like for the LGBT+ community to be hated and abused by many simply for being who they are. It takes that lived experience to really understand it. It took me many, many years to make my peace with this City. A City I loved, but also hated. A City I defended, but also seemingly wanted to kill me at times too.

I hope I haven't strayed too far off the core of the topic there. My point really being that it's lived experience that helps us understand ourselves and others. It's what helps give perspective.

[WestieRed]

Ian and Son of. Those are inspiring posts. As I live in NZ,  I can’t contribute anything meaningful in terms of your specific Liverpool City experiences, but the sense of ‘outsider’ and feeling wary and/or alone because of who you are, is universal. One of the key reasons my love of LFC still burns so brightly (I’ve been a supporter since the early 1970’s), is that it was a safe haven from domestic trauma when I was a kid. At times, the Club was my best friend. Seriously. It remains a place I love and feel needed!

In the late ‘80’s (what a team) when I eventually travelled to the City to watch the team play at Anfield and away, I was shocked at the hate directed at me as a Reds fan. When Hillsborough happened, I was in Luton, watching it unfold on TV. My English relatives, were just brutal in apportioning blame and an utter lack of empathy. It made me love the team, the City, its culture and its resilience all the more. I don’t write too often on here, but I can’t stand ‘banter’. It’s my issue, not anyone else’s but i think it all comes from a terrible place. The chants about tragedies need to stop, it abhorrent. Anyway, I only came on this page to salute your posts, both really worthwhile. Thank you for them.

Up the Mighty Reds

[rob1966]

Went to get some tea for the kids before, coming out of the takeaway, sees a new looking red Vauxhall Mokka - reg plate M99 YSB

Sad c*nt

[Son of Spion]

Ian and Son of. Those are inspiring posts. As I live in NZ,  I can’t contribute anything meaningful in terms of your specific Liverpool City experiences, but the sense of ‘outsider’ and feeling wary and/or alone because of who you are, is universal. One of the key reasons my love of LFC still burns so brightly (I’ve been a supporter since the early 1970’s), is that it was a safe haven from domestic trauma when I was a kid. At times, the Club was my best friend. Seriously. It remains a place I love and feel needed!

In the late ‘80’s (what a team) when I eventually travelled to the City to watch the team play at Anfield and away, I was shocked at the hate directed at me as a Reds fan. When Hillsborough happened, I was in Luton, watching it unfold on TV. My English relatives, were just brutal in apportioning blame and an utter lack of empathy. It made me love the team, the City, its culture and its resilience all the more. I don’t write too often on here, but I can’t stand ‘banter’. It’s my issue, not anyone else’s but i think it all comes from a terrible place. The chants about tragedies need to stop, it abhorrent. Anyway, I only came on this page to salute your posts, both really worthwhile. Thank you for them.

Up the Mighty Reds

Hi Westie. It sounds like LFC got you through some tough times. It definitely has done for me too. I've grown to actually enjoy being something of an outsider. I tend to admire non conformists. Liverpool the City and Liverpool FC tend to stand alone. Thing is, the culture is so, so strong. It's resilient and defiant. All that abuse. All the vitriol, jealousy and hate, yet we're still here. We're still strong. I think this fact often gets under the skin of many people. We don't lie down and we don't go away.

As horrible as it feels to be scorned and derided simply for existing, as I got older and could see a bigger picture I began to realise that it's not really us who has the problem. The haters are the ones who have the real problem. You tend to hate what you fear. You lash out at what scares you and what you feel threatened by. So in many ways, when the away end is spouting its vile hatred and prejudice, it tells us a hell of a lot more about those dishing it out than it does a out those on the receiving end.

I think our resilience, our culture, our success and the fact we just won't go away actually frightens a lot of people. They then have to put us down in order to try to claw back some power. If our City, our culture and our club were non descript and run of the mill, there would be apathy towards us rather than the fear-driven hatred we often see.

What we see in the away end at Anfield and on away trips in England is their way of trying to slap us back down. Look at our response though. We've survived the Thatcherite era of our managed decline. We've survived government and media conspiracy over Hillsborough. We've survived decades of biased, anti-LFC and anti-City of Liverpool right-wing media influence. We're still here. Still standing and still enjoying being us. That absolutely boils a lot of piss. The hate we see in reply tells us an awful lot about those peddling it.

[Son of Spion]

Went to get some tea for the kids before, coming out of the takeaway, sees a new looking red Vauxhall Mokka - reg plate M99 YSB

Sad c*nt

A while back I came across a dickhead Manc bragging about getting his new YSB number plate and putting it on his car. 

I can't imagine how sad his life must be. It certainly shows just how much piss we boil, though. The power we have is extraordinary.

[WestieRed]

Hi Westie. It sounds like LFC got you through some tough times. It definitely has done for me too. I've grown to actually enjoy being something of an outsider. I tend to admire non conformists. Liverpool the City and Liverpool FC tend to stand alone. Thing is, the culture is so, so strong. It's resilient and defiant.

That’s typically wonderful writing Spion. That’s what I love about who we are. True Reds understand the strength and struggle needed to bat back all the shit. Just to be who we are. Strength is life as Black Uhuru once sang! I agree about being an outsider. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realised what sets me apart is what makes me an individual. I celebrate it to be honest as I have no desire to be anybody else (other than Kenny Dalglish!). Thanks again for replying and thanks for giving a shit about other people (care giving).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Incidents like this should probably be borne in mind when people talk flippantly online about "sorting people out" in alleyways because they couldn't handle a verbal argument. Gets my goat.

If that is directed at me then you are out of order. Had you met me, then I am the most calm and chilled person you will meet.

But if you are backed into a corner and you need to get away then you need to get away.

We all love situations you are in control of and we all love to feel we are in control. When people wish to do you harm then the best you can do is cause the least yourself and get away.

[BCCC]

Incidents like this should probably be borne in mind when people talk flippantly online about "sorting people out" in alleyways because they couldn't handle a verbal argument. Gets my goat.

That smacks of someone who's never been in that situation. If you had you know when the verbal argument isn't going anywhere at which point you do what you have to do to get out of the situation unscathed.

If you're dealing with people who you can't reason with then there's a choice of either let them harm you or you stop them. Learning to understand the level you need to operate at was a life skill back in my day.

[ianburns252]

That smacks of someone who's never been in that situation. If you had you know when the verbal argument isn't going anywhere at which point you do what you have to do to get out of the situation unscathed.

If you're dealing with people who you can't reason with then there's a choice of either let them harm you or you stop them. Learning to understand the level you need to operate at was a life skill back in my day.

There is also the answer of just keep your head down and keep moving - stopping to argue back only puts you at greater risk

If someone has you cornered then I get you might have to physically defend yourself but I've had the shit kicked out of me enough times to know that the mistake was reacting to the verbal in the first place - as this thread proves, it isn't as if the people you are giving it back to are inclined to listen and think "ooooo yeah, that was a really good point - and rather the witty rejoinder - and it has changed my outlook forever".

Trust me as well - it isn't a binary choice if you aren't as strong as them or you don't have that mentality/aggression within you to stand your ground.

[9 kemlyn road]

Hi Westie. It sounds like LFC got you through some tough times. It definitely has done for me too. I've grown to actually enjoy being something of an outsider. I tend to admire non conformists. Liverpool the City and Liverpool FC tend to stand alone. Thing is, the culture is so, so strong. It's resilient and defiant. All that abuse. All the vitriol, jealousy and hate, yet we're still here. We're still strong. I think this fact often gets under the skin of many people. We don't lie down and we don't go away.

As horrible as it feels to be scorned and derided simply for existing, as I got older and could see a bigger picture I began to realise that it's not really us who has the problem. The haters are the ones who have the real problem. You tend to hate what you fear. You lash out at what scares you and what you feel threatened by. So in many ways, when the away end is spouting its vile hatred and prejudice, it tells us a hell of a lot more about those dishing it out than it does a out those on the receiving end.

I think our resilience, our culture, our success and the fact we just won't go away actually frightens a lot of people. They then have to put us down in order to try to claw back some power. If our City, our culture and our club were non descript and run of the mill, there would be apathy towards us rather than the fear-driven hatred we often see.

What we see in the away end at Anfield and on away trips in England is their way of trying to slap us back down. Look at our response though. We've survived the Thatcherite era of our managed decline. We've survived government and media conspiracy over Hillsborough. We've survived decades of biased, anti-LFC and anti-City of Liverpool right-wing media influence. We're still here. Still standing and still enjoying being us. That absolutely boils a lot of piss. The hate we see in reply tells us an awful lot about those peddling it.

I think you’re absolutely correct,,SOS.
Liverpool the city and scousers really do frighten the media ,establishment to the point of putting us down at every opportunity.any negative news story is front and centre on the news and in the press and the fact it’s in Liverpool /Merseyside is bonus points .these things happen in other parts of Britain then it’s not as prominent and newsworthy .
The point about away supporters is very true ,they’ve been brainwashed by all the negativity and stereotypes of the city and act accordingly towards us ,doing the establishments bidding with their moronic chants ,not any support for their own team just the usual small time crap they all come out with ..about US …we frighten them so they mock,ridicule and disparage us because deep down they wish they could have what we have ,what we’ve had ,Utd fans are at the front of that envious queue.
Even when they should have been  enjoying the best days of their sporting lives in the 90sand 00s all they could think about was us ,all they could sing about was us .when they won a trophy,the moment it was lifted the joy they felt was ,we’ve done the scousers I bet they’re gutted .this is their mindset ,now they’re back to being what they were  in the 70 s and 80s and we are enjoying great days the vitriol has been ramped up and guess what ,the hillsborough slurs are at the forefront of their minds because that’s where we live ,rent free, they’re prisoners in their own minds and we’ve jailed them ,we own them.
They’ll never change ,they’ll still be singing this filth long after I’m gone with it all being passed down ,generation to generation and the media still won’t say a word about it because they’ll still be fearful of us ,all the anti Liverpool shit they throw our way and we’ll still be there ,defiant ,proud .we just won’t go away .

[Andy @ Allerton!]

There is also the answer of just keep your head down and keep moving - stopping to argue back only puts you at greater risk

If someone has you cornered then I get you might have to physically defend yourself but I've had the shit kicked out of me enough times to know that the mistake was reacting to the verbal in the first place - as this thread proves, it isn't as if the people you are giving it back to are inclined to listen and think "ooooo yeah, that was a really good point - and rather the witty rejoinder - and it has changed my outlook forever".

Trust me as well - it isn't a binary choice if you aren't as strong as them or you don't have that mentality/aggression within you to stand your ground.

You don't need agression. You need to be competent. Most people like this are bullies at heart. They want an easy win and they want to walk away unharmed and to brag to their mates.

If straight away they are hurt enough to think then you are usually already able to walk away.

Fighting is pathetic and stupid and there are many occasions where I've been in a position where I have done nothing wrong and yet apologised or done nothing wrong and bought someone a pint or done nothing wrong and backed down.

You judge each situation as it comes, but usually if three lads are cornering you in an alley and preventing you from leaving then that's the sign that talking and apologising won't work, sadly. The best you can do is something quickly to the ringleader. Once they don't want to be involved then their mates usually don't and you can go on your way.

[Crosby Nick]

Chuck@Norris Green

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Chuck@Norris Green

As people will tell you, I'm as soft as shite. I love everyone and I never want to get into anything ever. Absolutely hate it when shit happens. Really upsets me to be honest.

[9 kemlyn road]

That smacks of someone who's never been in that situation. If you had you know when the verbal argument isn't going anywhere at which point you do what you have to do to get out of the situation unscathed.

If you're dealing with people who you can't reason with then there's a choice of either let them harm you or you stop them. Learning to understand the level you need to operate at was a life skill back in my day.

Those sort of situations you got caught up in were the norm when I was a late teen ,20s age era .some pubs and social clubs you were on your guard as there was always some knobheads out for trouble ,it was a part of their night out ,a pint and a punch up ,follow someone into the toilets and give him a smack because he wasn’t a known regular in that place .
One of the places I would go on a Friday night there was a disco on ,very popular but it was known locally as fight night purely because it always ended up in a fight among themselves or better still,if another group of lads came from outside the town ,all because they were pissed and it was the norm.you really did have to watch yourself and have your back .
It really was a necessary life skill you needed back then and unfortunately,trying to talk your way out of a situation wouldn’t work with some of the dickheads in those days who just wanted trouble.

[ianburns252]

You don't need agression. You need to be competent. Most people like this are bullies at heart. They want an easy win and they want to walk away unharmed and to brag to their mates.

If straight away they are hurt enough to think then you are usually already able to walk away.

Fighting is pathetic and stupid and there are many occasions where I've been in a position where I have done nothing wrong and yet apologised or done nothing wrong and bought someone a pint or done nothing wrong and backed down.

You judge each situation as it comes, but usually if three lads are cornering you in an alley and preventing you from leaving then that's the sign that talking and apologising won't work, sadly. The best you can do is something quickly to the ringleader. Once they don't want to be involved then their mates usually don't and you can go on your way.

Aggression isn't the right word for it - basically I know that I am not throwing the first punch as I know from experience I haven't got that instinct. I am getting into a ball and covering myself up.

Again (and this is me being fortunate) I have not been in that situation of being cornered since I was a kid and as an adult the approach if I am out at night is to stay on main roads, don't engage if someone is shouting stuff, use a taxi if it doesn't feel safe.

I come back round to my main point though - BCCC is having a go at someone for pointing out the post about the lad who died literally from one punch and saying to avoid the conflict and then goes on to say you need to "understand the level you need to operate at" which " was a life skill back in my day". Frankly I'm glad that people don't need to anymore (for the most part) as it isn't something to be looked back on fondly or as a requirement for life.

I don't know BCCC and I am sorry if I have misunderstood them but it feels too much a case of having to show you are "hard" and intimidating those who aren't/for who fighting hasn't had to be part of their life

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Aggression isn't the right word for it - basically I know that I am not throwing the first punch as I know from experience I haven't got that instinct. I am getting into a ball and covering myself up.

Again (and this is me being fortunate) I have not been in that situation of being cornered since I was a kid and as an adult the approach if I am out at night is to stay on main roads, don't engage if someone is shouting stuff, use a taxi if it doesn't feel safe.

I come back round to my main point though - BCCC is having a go at someone for pointing out the post about the lad who died literally from one punch and saying to avoid the conflict and then goes on to say you need to "understand the level you need to operate at" which " was a life skill back in my day". Frankly I'm glad that people don't need to anymore (for the most part) as it isn't something to be looked back on fondly or as a requirement for life.

I don't know BCCC and I am sorry if I have misunderstood them but it feels too much a case of having to show you are "hard" and intimidating those who aren't/for who fighting hasn't had to be part of their life

No, I'm sorry mate, I don't agree with your point.

I live in Liverpool and mostly it's OK, but I've been on this planet for coming up to 60 years. There are still dickheads out there and I have worked around the country.

We all try and stay out of things and we all avoid what we can, but occasionally that can't be done. I go out quite a lot and it happens. Wrong place, wrong time.

What he was saying though was that back in the day, it was a usual occurance, in the 80s in London where I worked, it was fucking nuts, in the 90s around the North West it had its moments.

If you are confident and you are capable then quite often that was enough to stop something before it started, but not always.

But I do feel this thread has gone way off track now - everyone should stay safe, and follow the advice you give. In the case I cited though I was followed outside where three lads were actively going to kick my head in 'for being a scouser' - that didn't work out well for them or me because I got involved in something I didn't want after a nice night out.

[ianburns252]

No, I'm sorry mate, I don't agree with your point.

I live in Liverpool and mostly it's OK, but I've been on this planet for coming up to 60 years. There are still dickheads out there and I have worked around the country.

We all try and stay out of things and we all avoid what we can, but occasionally that can't be done. I go out quite a lot and it happens. Wrong place, wrong time.

What he was saying though was that back in the day, it was a usual occurance, in the 80s in London where I worked, it was fucking nuts, in the 90s around the North West it had its moments.

If you are confident and you are capable then quite often that was enough to stop something before it started, but not always.

But I do feel this thread has gone way off track now - everyone should stay safe, and follow the advice you give. In the case I cited though I was followed outside where three lads were actively going to kick my head in 'for being a scouser' - that didn't work out well for them or me because I got involved in something I didn't want after a nice night out.

It is likely the case that I have just been lucky since I have been an adult to be honest - I am not small enough for people to think they can intimidate, not big or strong enough looking for people to see me as a threat, and generally just blend into the background enough to stay out of things.

My take way the way it was phrased came across as it if was a failing to not be "capable" but appreciate I have the wrong end of the stick with it.

A situation like the one you found yourself in then you have to do what you have to do and I'm sorry you found yourself in that.

Agree - drifting away from the main point

[Anthony]

There's a discussion of Tragedy Chanting on the Storm Huntley call-in programme on Channel 5 at midday - on the backs of 3 Arsenal 'Fans' being banned for Hillsborough chanting.

[BCCC]

I come back round to my main point though - BCCC is having a go at someone for pointing out the post about the lad who died literally from one punch and saying to avoid the conflict and then goes on to say you need to "understand the level you need to operate at" which " was a life skill back in my day". Frankly I'm glad that people don't need to anymore (for the most part) as it isn't something to be looked back on fondly or as a requirement for life.

I don't know BCCC and I am sorry if I have misunderstood them but it feels too much a case of having to show you are "hard" and intimidating those who aren't/for who fighting hasn't had to be part of their life

I wasn't having a go at anybody for anything least of all losing their life so I'll accept your apology for that.

Now, I'm not "hard" I didn't go around looking for trouble, but what you learned was that in certain circumstances you had two choices either stick up for yourself or you, we'll call it, let the bullies win.

Nothing to do with being violent or looking for trouble and always a last resort.

[Andy82lfc]

So at the risk of being on topic in here, why have the club not done anything about the chants the other week yet?

They were all for these 'joint' statements against chanting with man united a while back, so what now? Is it sticking our fingers in our ears time for the club as usual?

[Barneylfc∗]

So at the risk of being on topic in here, why have the club not done anything about the chants the other week yet?

They were all for these 'joint' statements against chanting with man united a while back, so what now? Is it sticking our fingers in our ears time for the club as usual?

They've not done anything for 30 years, why do you expect them to start giving a shit now?
Anything up to this point has been token gestures. That joint statement they released was an embarrassment.

[Andy82lfc]

They've not done anything for 30 years, why do you expect them to start giving a shit now?
Anything up to this point has been token gestures. That joint statement they released was an embarrassment.

That's kind of my point, it's absurd that, especially in this climate now where tragedy chanting is the talk of the day, the club are not utilising this to push to have it erased once and for all.

I am genuinely baffled at how we (rightly) hear warnings about homophobic chanting over the tannoys (for the Chelsea chanting), yet when it comes to survivors of Hillsborough they have to sit back and hear tens of thousands chant just a week or two ago with radio fucking silence from the club.

It needs calling out more on how he club are doing nothing about this. At the very least I would have expected some lip service and a petty statement. Having said all of that I can't believe they will do nothing and maybe they are waiting until after the break/closer to the next match at the mancs for saying something. At least if they do that it will be highlighted more when it's sung and the club can then go from there. Fuck knows.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

That's kind of my point, it's absurd that, especially in this climate now where tragedy chanting is the talk of the day, the club are not utilising this to push to have it erased once and for all.

I am genuinely baffled at how we (rightly) hear warnings about homophobic chanting over the tannoys (for the Chelsea chanting), yet when it comes to survivors of Hillsborough they have to sit back and hear tens of thousands chant just a week or two ago with radio fucking silence from the club.

It needs calling out more on how he club are doing nothing about this. At the very least I would have expected some lip service and a petty statement. Having said all of that I can't believe they will do nothing and maybe they are waiting until after the break/closer to the next match at the mancs for saying something. At least if they do that it will be highlighted more when it's sung and the club can then go from there. Fuck knows.

I do hope that the club are going to wait until a few days before the Manc game and then get Klopp, The players and pundits talking about it beforehand.

Obviously you're going to get 90% of Old Trafford singing that shite again when we play them next, but that should be highlighted by everyone.

The club should be pushing for the FA and Premier League to acknowledge it and do something about it.

[Andy82lfc]

I do hope that the club are going to wait until a few days before the Manc game and then get Klopp, The players and pundits talking about it beforehand.

Obviously you're going to get 90% of Old Trafford singing that shite again when we play them next, but that should be highlighted by everyone.

The club should be pushing for the FA and Premier League to acknowledge it and do something about it.

Yeah, I mean it's a bit of an open goal for the club really and simple to do. They know it will happen again, so put out a club statement before the next game, non of this joint bollocks, and wait for them to incriminate themselves. Then the narrative can finally change from this absurd 'tit for tat' utter bullshit and the club can then have a platform to keep pushing for punishment, bans, etc.

If they don't do anything before the next game it really will cement for me that they don't give a shit about the effect this has on fans.

[Reds r coming up the hill]

The following is my attempt to complain to the BBC. Apologies to anyone if I offend by not getting my facts right but I just hate what is allowed to be reported.


YOUR COMPLAINT: 


Tragedy chanting,  incorrectly reported
  

I would like to complain about your article on “Tragedy chanting arrests after Man Utd and Liverpool's FA Cup clash” on todays website
 By Ewan Gawne on bbc news… 



Wow you have failed many times before to address tragedy chanting which has come over the airwaves on your broadcasts and now when thousands of Man Utd fans are clearly heard many times to mock innocent victims of Hillsborough some of whom were in the stadium …. Some family members and some survivors of a terrible tradgedy present and had to endure being called murderers …. Etc… but also those watching worldwide … instead of addressing that major issue you decide to say ”8 arrested“ so as to make it seem the tragedy chanting was a both sides issue … it was not … but well done on your narrative to somehow try and equate thousands of fans that should have been arrested with one or 2 Liverpool fans in possession of various drugs etc … Jesus wept.. Tragedy chanting on both sides is yes to be stopped and Liverpool have for 99% cut it out or if some knobhead starts he is usually told to stop.. whereas thousands in the Stratford end are encouraged to continue with your type of journalism that tries to place blame falsely on both sides… well done, narrative satisfied. Your article should have read “disgusting levels of abuse from thousands of Man Utd fans mocking hillsborough tragedy/victims” that my friend is the appropriate headline … you also hide the story in the basement of your website … why? Are you not wanting this issue to be highlighted… why not? Any reason…? 

……..
Their reply was:

Thanks for contacting us about the BBC News website.

We note your concerns regarding the article entitled 'Tragedy chanting arrests after Man Utd and Liverpool's FA Cup clash'.

I can assure you that BBC News always aims for the highest standards when reporting, and we aim to include accurate, impartial and comprehensive information likely to be of interest to our readers.

In this case, the article aimed to report on this specific incident, including factual information about those arrested made available by the police. Within one individual report or article it simply isn't possible to include every aspect of an issue - or everything each of our individual readers might like us to.

Our coverage is intended to be balanced and informative in the long run - where issues can be examined in more depth, when time and research permits further analysis over weeks and months.

We have previously provided further coverage of the issue of tragedy chanting which you might be interested in:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-64796080

We very much value your feedback. Complaints are sent to senior management and we’ve included your points in our overnight reports. These reports are among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC. This ensures that your concerns have been seen by the right people quickly, and helps to inform decisions about current and future content.

This is our response at Stage 1a of the BBC’s complaints process. If you’re dissatisfied with this reply, a follow-up complaint may be considered at Stage 1b. You must submit a follow-up within 20 working days through the BBC
………
Again I responded:

………

Well I looked at the link you provided where you also discussed “a man“ who was involved in tragedy chanting so no that is not good enough.

 Your report after the recent fa cup quarter final was trying to equate tragedy chanting by thousands of Man utd fans to a few arrests made .. leaning to the belief that both sides were involved in tragedy chanting by some equal measure.


One Liverpool fan threw a flare into the disabled section, another had some minor drugs and there are reports of a man also acting out a Munich airplane gesture. All indefensible, all should also be punished, all should be called out as inappropriate behaviour.
 

BUT you ignored thousands of Man utd fans who broke the law by chanting about the deaths at Hillsborough…. Maybe you are unaware of the smear campaign by the media that contributed to lies being believed for 30 years where the victims of the tradgey were blamed. The families of the dead, the survivors of that day and the Liverpool community do not deserve to be continually made out to be the ones to blame. 

And it was not a one off chant they did it several times … I was in another country and was listening and could hear this offensive chanting.
I have tried to complain before about you allowing this …for this  to be ignored by your commentators, your previous response was: for me “to identify exactly the time during a broadcast when the chanting was happening” … but now it is so clear you still ignore it. 
My point is when your commentators hear thousands from one side chanting illegally you should note it, you should report it, you should explain it’s thousands and it’s all one sided, you should shame them into stopping but you allow it to fester. 

One of the chants Liverpool fans chant is “fergies right your fans are shite… the united response is always the “sun was right your murderers” .

 That is not a both sides issue that is disgusting, that should be condemned by you that should not be ignored.

Contd…..
This is thousands times worse than a profanity being inadvertently broadcast, but when that happens you apologize to the audience for the profanity, typically you say “ our apologies for the bad choice of offensive words” or something along those lines.
Seriously what are your standards if a swear word is such a big deal but thousands can chant murderers to victims of a tragedy?
Please for the love of God will you stop making ridiculous excuses and highlight the issue and do it correctly.
You defend your report by saying you were reporting on specific incidents reported by the police. But your headline was “Tragedy chanting arrests..” so you ignore the thousands of disgusting chants that you broadcast and pick out incidents under THAT headline … maybe reporting is not the BBC’s strong point.

I do not need a reply … I need you to do your job, I need you to stand up for a change to the chanting and condemn it instead of broadcasting it and ignoring it, thus encouraging it. It is time for it to stop and you by accurate reporting have a role to play in stopping it, what are you waiting for ? What if the Liverpool fans have had enough of this and decide to say enough is enough where would that go?
What are you going to do in a few weeks when this happens again at Old Trafford? 

……………
 

[SvenJohansen]

Could we start a proper e mail campaign ?. Like when we bombarded banks to stop Hicks getting a refinance job. The Premier League, MUFC, LFC.

I'm just echoing this but would anyone be interested in getting this going? I'm thinking along the lines of emails targeting our club, the Premier League and the FA. Perhaps tailored emails to each of those. There's no point in targeting MUFC or any of the rest of the clubs because they won't do anything about it. But the PL, FA and Liverpool FC have to address it meaningfully. We can complain about it amongst ourselves here and on other forums, at home and in the pub, but we really should be complaining to those in power who  can and simply must do something about it. I liked what Reds r coming up the hill sent to the BBC and I commend you on it, but I think emailing the media won't do anything either. They haven't addressed it yet and I doubt if the mainstream media will do some actual reporting of it. All they do is shy away from it in fear of telling it straight. They won't do what they are supposed to be doing; giving us true and factual reporting of what is happening. There's only a handful of reporters with the balls to call it out so I would suggest emailing them.

My email has one of many questions that I demand answers to, but the biggest ones are why is tragedy chanting not being punished meaningfully? What is LFC doing about it and why is it being allowed to continue? Will those who do it and the clubs that they represent be punished for it? When and how? We need clear and transparent answers. It's all very well teaching kids in schools about it and making the odd arrest here and there, but this is not good enough. There has to be a deterrent big enough to actually mean something.

So yeah I'm going to put together a coherent list of questions and target all of those I mentioned earlier. If anyone is interested they can join me and I can share this email with them to use it as a template if you want. It's up to us to demand answers. Waiting for LFC, the PL and FA to do something of their own accord is useless. I have to try something.

[oojason]

'Liverpool FC and Manchester United Foundations join forces to educate on tragedy chanting':-

The Foundations of Liverpool FC and Manchester United have come together to deliver an education programme on the impact of tragedy-related abuse and why it must stop.

www.liverpoolfc.com/news/liverpool-fc-and-manchester-united-foundations-join-forces-educate-tragedy-chanting

[mainone]

disgusted , just been on granada reports about tragedy chanting at the recent game and 1 person arrested for tragedy chanting. Then said they had been in a school in huyton with liverpool children and manchester children , and then just went on mainly about munich chants and how bobby charlton felt, and im afraid it came across as more a liverpool problem, wes brown and phil thompson were the people who spoke to the tv.
Obviously the editing of the piece will be blamed.

[DelTrotter]

Absolutely fucking sick of this "joint" stuff as if it's loads of tit for tat stuff and not 90mins of twattish chants from them.

Pathetic that's the only thing on our website after that disgusting game but not surprised, weak as fuck.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

The only people we need to be emailing at this moment in time are at our Club, need them onside & then we can do the others.

[Eeyore]

Why would the club want to rock the boat though when they are earning hundreds of millions from commercial deals. Much better to sweep it under the carpet and keep raking the money in.

[Son of Spion]

Well that piece on Granada Reports was infuriating. This constant need to make out it's a joint problem is wearing very thin indeed.

Any initiatives on this need to come from those in Manchester, educating Mancunians. This ceased to be a Liverpool issue after Heysel and Hillsborough.

[BCCC]

Well if the media reports on the clubs foundations are to be believed it's a joint problem with both sides equally accountable.

Yet another smokescreen to protect manc masses.

[mainone]

just made sure i watched bbc north west  to see was it on there , and the piece was  more balanced where they mentioned chants of the sun was right was mentioned and spoke more to the students who were involved, and there feelings.Also margaret aspinall was able to say on bbc north west it is not the children who need educating, but they should be able to educate the older ones, who make these chants.

[Jwils21]

Zero coverage on sky sports social media where most of the braindead sheep get their opinions from. Instead they’re pushing Player v Player comparisons and combined XI’s. Pricks.