Topic: Naby Keita Watch

[A-Bomb]

I think he just needs a cycle of games so he can build some momentum, become more familiar with his team mates in match day situations and the league itself.

It's tough for Naby, as we're in a title race, so it's difficult to accommodate his learning and development curve when others are more consistent and are settled into their roles within the midfield when called upon.

I think out of all our central midfield players he is the one with the highest ceiling in linking midfield to attack in the way he can break through a press between lines, so when up to speed will be an enormous asset for us. He just needs minutes on the pitch to continue acclimatising himself, i hope to see regular substitute appearances gradually looking more consistent where he can credibly be called upon to really take our midfield dynamic up another level.

Could be very useful in CL cup ties, where he can break and create havoc asking defenders to leave our front three to either step out to shut him out or keep backing off leaving him space to drive forward...

[redtel]

Keita won't be the first player to take time to adjust to the pace and physicality of the PL. I think Henry showed little at Arsenal in his first season but shone in his second.

Language may be a slight problem but from what I've seen and heard its most likely a lack of confidence and learning to deal with the way refs allow so much strong arm stuff in the PL. Klopp said he is a very shy guy which could mean his confidence has been knocked as he realises he has to cope with more kicks and pushes. He is not the biggest but his class should see him through as he learns how to deal with the battleground that is midfield.

I remember Markus Babel arriving from Germany and after a few games said the PL is like Gladiators out there. Anything goes.

Keita will gain confidence and then we will see him shine as there have been odd flashes of brilliance. He got red cards in Germany but no flashes of temper or foul tackles here so far. Maybe he needs to find that devil again to show his best form?

[Jookie]

I think Henry showed little at Arsenal in his first season but shone in his second.

Whilst I agree with your general point about players taking time to settle, you can't say Henry did little in his 1st season at Arsenal. Failed to score in his 1st 8 games but ended the season with 26 goals.

Over the years the myth that Henry (and Pires) struggled for long period before becoming the best player in the league has been perpetuated. Henry definitely got better over time but he was contributing significantly within months of being in England.

Think the same applies for Markus Babbel. He 'struggled' at times in his first few games. By Xmas he was proving he was one of the best defenders in the league.

Really great players will adapt to a league and system within months. The issue Keita has had compared to Henry, Babbel and Pires is that he probably hasn't played as regularly  as those players did in their 1st few months.

[HeartAndSoul]

He's showed us glimpses of what he's capable of but we've not seen anything close to his Leipzig form yet. Not seen much of him driving with the ball from deep or playing some of these eye of the needle passes that he's capable of. We've not really seen the snide side of him either when going in for tackles.

[tubby]

Wait does he really not have a decent grasp of English yet?  Surely he'd have been learning the language for the past year in preparation for the move.

He hasn't settled into a rhythm with us yet and it's difficult to see where he fits into the 4231 unless it's cover for Mane or Gini.  Think we'll see him make strides next season but for now he'll be a bit part player.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Southampton, West Ham, Swansea (2011-2018), Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, and Burnley (and soon Wolves) have all come up since 2010 and stayed multiple seasons in the Premier League, mostly solidly mid-table, some of them sometimes qualifying for Europe and pushing the top 6. The managers of Swansea and Southampton got jobs at Liverpool and Spurs respectively because of the excellent jobs they did.

Then there is the best of the lot: Leicester City, promoted in 2014, Champions of England in 2016, CL quarter-finalists in 2017.

As someone who watches it regularly, I'm very happy to say the Championship is a good league, and hard to get out of. As good as the Bundesliga? No, obviously not. But not some terrible footballing backwater.

Nice to see some common sense around here.

Whilst I agree with your general point about players taking time to settle, you can't say Henry did little in his 1st season at Arsenal. Failed to score in his 1st 8 games but ended the season with 26 goals.

Over the years the myth that Henry (and Pires) struggled for long period before becoming the best player in the league has been perpetuated. Henry definitely got better over time but he was contributing significantly within months of being in England.

Think the same applies for Markus Babbel. He 'struggled' at times in his first few games. By Xmas he was proving he was one of the best defenders in the league.

Really great players will adapt to a league and system within months. The issue Keita has had compared to Henry, Babbel and Pires is that he probably hasn't played as regularly  as those players did in their 1st few months.

Excellently put. Sometimes new signings just don't perform well - be it for a period of time, or full stop. There is no rhyme or reason to the 'bedding in' period. It's a myth to justify poor performances. Ozil begun his career in England excellently, yet has dipped ever since. What happened to his 'bedding in' period?

I genuinely can't believe Keita's performance the other night is being described as excellent by a few on here. He touched the ball the same amount of times as Camacho, our 19-year-old full-back starting for the club for the first time. As our main link to the attack, that was a game he should have grabbed by the scruff of the neck, dropping deep to receive the ball from Milner, Fabinho and Hoever, all of whom were playing out of position or (like Camacho) playing for the first time. Instead, he was often standing around in a left-of-centre position waiting for the ball to come to him. Confidence is a more than fair mitigation - but this bedding in stuff is, well, guff.

[Jookie]

Excellently put. Sometimes new signings just don't perform well - be it for a period of time, or full stop. There is no rhyme or reason to the 'bedding in' period. It's a myth to justify poor performances. Ozil begun his career in England excellently, yet has dipped ever since. What happened to his 'bedding in' period?

I think the idea of a 'bedding in' period is fine. Depends on a number of factors -some on the pitch and some off the pitch. I think with our tactical system, and how our manager tends to integrate new players, he likes a 'bedding in' period. Not with every player but he has done with numerous players. I think the other big factor is the pace and physicality of our league. I wonder if Keita is struggling with this. Maybe the disjointed nature of his appearance, due to injuries, have made it harder for him to get to grips with the different demands compared to the Bundesliga.

I'm relatively relaxed about Keita's performances so far, though I think others have over egged his contribution on occasions. I'm mainly relaxed because we have other good options and have got to our current position without him making many significant contributions. I think we can achieve our aims with him still being a peripheral figure for the rest of the season. It would be better if he really took off this season though. This is still a possibility.

Long term I still think he'll be a success. However, the more time goes on, the more pressure he'll be under to perform. This is my big concern. What has come from the club suggests he is a shy character. His performances on the pitch suggest someone who is currently lacking in confidence. How will he cope if the pressure and spotlight comes on him a lot more after the grace of a 'bedding in' period becomes eroded with more of the fanbase?

[Crouch Potato]

Just curious but how much German did he know?

I'm sure he would be fluent by now, as he spent time in Austria before he left for Germany, and the main language there is also German.

So basically he spent 4 years in German speaking countries.

[Felch Aid]

We've seen glimpses and I'm not worried about his development. Pace, physicality and playing in Klopp's system will simply take time. I do hope he gets some game time but for now you can't fault Klopp for team selection.

[BCCC]

No doubt he will get into the groove but he was the most disappointing against Wolves. It was a game where he had the opportunity to impose himself with the talent he's got but just drifted out of the game.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I think the idea of a 'bedding in' period is fine. Depends on a number of factors -some on the pitch and some off the pitch. I think with our tactical system, and how our manager tends to integrate new players, he likes a 'bedding in' period. Not with every player but he has done with numerous players. I think the other big factor is the pace and physicality of our league. I wonder if Keita is struggling with this. Maybe the disjointed nature of his appearance, due to injuries, have made it harder for him to get to grips with the different demands compared to the Bundesliga.

That is all completely fair (and with regards to the step-up I completely agree, hence the amusing custom title), but I think we're past the 'bedding in' period a little to be honest. We're talking about a player who we signed 18 months ago, and Klopp threw in from day one once he had actually joined. If he required 'bedding in', why would Klopp do this? Fabinho strikes me as a more accurate example of 'bedding in'. Physically and tactically he was clearly struggling with the demands in England and under Klopp, so he was eased into things. The player himself has spoken about a change in gym routine to build his hamstrings up to cope with all of this. This, combined with a change in midfield shape which clearly suits his game more, means he has now 'bedded in' (or in more logical terms, he is playing well).

Did Leroy Sané suddenly start playing well because he had 'bedded in'? Maybe. But I would say it had much more to do with Guardiola changing system to 4-3-3 and using him as a classic winger, suiting his natural game more rather than playing as an inverted one on the opposite side of the pitch.

Same goes for Firmino. 'Bedding in' may have been a small part of his improvement, but a change in manager and role had a lot more to do with it.

This is probably all a bit pedantic but it just strikes me as a 'momentum' type thing in football: a phrase which people use for things they are struggling to explain. Keita looks like a player short on confidence and struggling to step-up to a higher level of football - not a player short on speaking English or 'bedding in'. If he starts playing well, which I believe he will at some point as there is too much talent there not to, it'll largely because of small tweaks in his game, both by player and manager, not because his English improves or he 'beds in'. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Southampton, West Ham, Swansea (2011-2018), Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, and Burnley (and soon Wolves) have all come up since 2010 and stayed multiple seasons in the Premier League, mostly solidly mid-table, some of them sometimes qualifying for Europe and pushing the top 6. The managers of Swansea and Southampton got jobs at Liverpool and Spurs respectively because of the excellent jobs they did.

Then there is the best of the lot: Leicester City, promoted in 2014, Champions of England in 2016, CL quarter-finalists in 2017.

As someone who watches it regularly, I'm very happy to say the Championship is a good league, and hard to get out of. As good as the Bundesliga? No, obviously not. But not some terrible footballing backwater.

As for Keita, shown flashes of real ability this season, the quality is clearly there; just needs to bring it to the table more often. A goal would help his confidence I reckon.

It's not terrible footballing backwater, it's a good league but the comparison was poor.

[spider-neil]

Quote from: redtel on Today at 10:11:48 AM
I think Henry showed little at Arsenal in his first season but shone in his second.

Henry not performing in his first season is a myth.

[bird_lfc]

Henry not performing in his first season is a myth.

26 goals is not bad for someone who showed 'very little'

There was a lot of hype for Keita on here when he arrived, and he's shown glimpses of his talent and why our fans were so excited to have him but overall it's been pretty underwhelming so far. We can't really afford at this point to have a player 'still settling in' starting regular games which doesn't help either so I expect him to be a bit part player for the remainder fo the season.

[Dougle]

I think the idea of a 'bedding in' period is fine. Depends on a number of factors -some on the pitch and some off the pitch. I think with our tactical system, and how our manager tends to integrate new players, he likes a 'bedding in' period. Not with every player but he has done with numerous players. I think the other big factor is the pace and physicality of our league. I wonder if Keita is struggling with this. Maybe the disjointed nature of his appearance, due to injuries, have made it harder for him to get to grips with the different demands compared to the Bundesliga.

I'm relatively relaxed about Keita's performances so far, though I think others have over egged his contribution on occasions. I'm mainly relaxed because we have other good options and have got to our current position without him making many significant contributions. I think we can achieve our aims with him still being a peripheral figure for the rest of the season. It would be better if he really took off this season though. This is still a possibility.

Long term I still think he'll be a success. However, the more time goes on, the more pressure he'll be under to perform. This is my big concern. What has come from the club suggests he is a shy character. His performances on the pitch suggest someone who is currently lacking in confidence. How will he cope if the pressure and spotlight comes on him a lot more after the grace of a 'bedding in' period becomes eroded with more of the fanbase?

Good post mate. I think it's confidence in a nut shell. He's come quite close to scoring a few times, he's also messed up a few assist opportunities. As soon as a couple go in he will bloom I feel. He has the ability, the technique, the fight for the Prem. It's ok so far because Gini, Milner, Fabinho, Hendo and Shaq have collectively carried the team. I have a feeling it could happen very soon for him. Fingers crossed.

[tornado]

He is obviously not at his best, reason could be anything - physicality of league, language, niggles, just a dip in form, even personal. Bottom line is we can't really say why. I think some might be fearing that maybe he is not as good as a player for the PL as he was made out to be but the good news is that the glimpses of form he has shown so far would not suggest so.
He came in with the highest expectations (except Van Dijk) so probably being scrutinised a lot more than he needs to be.

[christofu]

why did we pay an 'immediate use' premium?
can we get a partial refund?
(has anyone seen the receipt?)

[Keith Lard]

I think Lovren being injured and Fabinho being deployed as a central defender for a few games will give Naby Keita a run in central midfield. It may be beneficial having Fabinho behind him to build up their relationship from a defensive standpoint.

All I know is at some stage he needs to take on the mantle of an automatic starter. The midfield needs a quality upgrade and Naby is a level up in terms of raw quality compared to Gini, Hendo and Milner (and they are all very good players indeed). Naby turns 24 next month so it’s time to push on to that next level. It’s interestkng to chart his progress against Paul Pogba (who turns 26 in March), and I think it’s realistic to start expecting Naby to deliver similar levels of output to what Pogba was giving Juventus in his final season. The quality is most certainly comparable.

[RyanBabel19]

Its going to be quite funny to watch when it clicks for him and he's got that full confidence he needs

You can see when we get the glimpses he makes the game look easy, the turn and inch perfect pass for Salah against palace, the double nutmeg in the Burnley game being prime examples

[killer-heels]

Its quite obviously a confidence issue. He is playing within himself quite clearly but he has shown what ability he has.

It might take until next season, but does it matter? We have an amazing team already.

[RyanBabel19]

Random observation but just thinking, he doesn't seem to get any protection from referees and a lot of the players who get booted throughout games are smaller players for some reason. You look at someone like Kane and refs trip over themselves to save him when he goes down but there's a good few small quick players who get a lot of kicks and refs seem to wave play on a lot

[Nick110581]

Would start him Saturday

[Jookie]

Would start him Saturday

Instead of who?

I'm assuming we are going with the front 3, Shaqiri and 2 midfielders. Given the 2 midfielders will be playing in front of a makeshift centre back I'd much rather have Wijanldum and Henderson than Keita for this game.

Unless you are playing him instead of Shaqiri?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Instead of who?

I'm assuming we are going with the front 3, Shaqiri and 2 midfielders. Given the 2 midfielders will be playing in front of a makeshift centre back I'd much rather have Wijanldum and Henderson than Keita for this game.

Unless you are playing him instead of Shaqiri?

You could play him ahead of Shaqiri and revert to an actual 3 man midfield.

[LFCTikiTaka]

I'm sure he would be fluent by now, as he spent time in Austria before he left for Germany, and the main language there is also German.

So basically he spent 4 years in German speaking countries.

Klopp has already said he speaks very little German.

"We don't have a common language," said Klopp, explaining: "He speaks a little bit of German, a little bit of English. Not too much though like 'hello' and 'goodbye'."

The Liverpool boss added: "But obviously he's a natural footballer though so that's really cool."

Klopp also explained that other players can interpret for Keita: "We have some French speaking players who can help him," said the German.

https://www.90min.com/posts/6142892-liverpool-manager-jurgen-klopp-reveals-one-problem-with-naby-keita-despite-impressive-debut

[redmark]

Unless you are playing him instead of Shaqiri?

I'm not Nick , but as posted in the pre-match thread, I would indeed do that. Shaqiri has been more productive so far, but a) a fair bit of that production has been from the bench and b) I think a confident and fully firing Keita can have a more significant transformative effect on this team, adding some real dynamism from central midfield, than Shaqiri. That's not to say Keita should start every game and Shaqiri none, but he's not going to grow in confidence sitting on the bench. I think we need to get him more involved, sooner rather than later.

[Jookie]

You could play him ahead of Shaqiri and revert to an actual 3 man midfield.

You could do that.

I'm not sure I would. Nothing to do with Keita. I would just try and get the 4 boss attackers on the pitch as much as possible for games against anyone in the bottom 12 of the Premier League (home and away).

[redmark]

You could do that.

I'm not sure I would. Nothing to do with Keita. I would just try and get the 4 boss attackers on the pitch as much as possible for games against anyone in the bottom 12 of the Premier League (home and away).

But then against the top clubs, an unconfident/rusty Keita isn't going to displace Fabinho/Wijnaldum/Henderson/Milner.

If he's going to gain confidence, express himself and start delivering - penetration, goals, assists - it'll start against teams exactly like Brighton.

[Jookie]

But then against the top clubs, an unconfident/rusty Keita isn't going to displace Fabinho/Wijnaldum/Henderson/Milner.

If he's going to gain confidence, express himself and start delivering - penetration, goals, assists - it'll start against teams exactly like Brighton.

I can see the logic in picking Keita and trying to play him into form. But I'm more arsed about us winning games and winning a league title than incorporating Keita into the team.

I know those things aren't necessarily exclusive. We could pick Keita in a run of games, we win, he gains confidence and off we go.

The flip side is that he hasn't produced anything like Shaqiri has so far in a red shirt. I'd be more confident in us getting a win with Shaqiri starting than Keita. That's why I'd pick Shaqiri against Brighton away. If it was Everton or United away, for example, I'd go with Keita. Not to give him a start to build confidence but because I think a proper 3 man midfield would work better

[redmark]

I can see the logic in picking Keita and trying to play him into form. But I'm more arsed about us winning games and winning a league title than incorporating Keita into the team.

I know those things aren't necessarily exclusive. We could pick Keita in a run of games, we win, he gains confidence and off we go.

The flip side is that he hasn't produced anything like Shaqiri has so far in a red shirt. I'd be more confident in us getting a win with Shaqiri starting than Keita. That's why I'd pick Shaqiri against Brighton away. If it was Everton or United away, for example, I'd go with Keita. Not to give him a start to build confidence but because I think a proper 3 man midfield would work better

It is a fine balance, and we do need to win every possible game we can. Playing Keita hasn't 'hurt us' at any point; he's had a few very good games, and a number of fairly anonymous ones. Half of Shaqiri's goals (and one of his three assists) have come as a sub.

My point isn't that I "want" Keita to be playing and playing well for his own sake; but that we might yet need him to be fully upto speed before the season is out (injury or loss of form elsewhere in midfield), and that would be easier if he's fully involved rather than having to step in cold. He's the most expensive midfielder in our history because he is, on paper (or spreadsheet) a pretty phenomenal talent; underlying offensive and defensive numbers in his career that look like peak Gerrard. Those would be useful any time; they could yet be critical in the title race.

[BrandoLFC]

Southampton, West Ham, Swansea (2011-2018), Crystal Palace, Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, and Burnley (and soon Wolves) have all come up since 2010 and stayed multiple seasons in the Premier League, mostly solidly mid-table, some of them sometimes qualifying for Europe and pushing the top 6. The managers of Swansea and Southampton got jobs at Liverpool and Spurs respectively because of the excellent jobs they did.

Then there is the best of the lot: Leicester City, promoted in 2014, Champions of England in 2016, CL quarter-finalists in 2017.

As someone who watches it regularly, I'm very happy to say the Championship is a good league, and hard to get out of. As good as the Bundesliga? No, obviously not. But not some terrible footballing backwater.

As for Keita, shown flashes of real ability this season, the quality is clearly there; just needs to bring it to the table more often. A goal would help his confidence I reckon.

Leicester the year they came up were favorites to go right back down but I'll give you they were better than most.  The rest don't change anything about what I said, they were all bad teams that needed teams already up to become worse in order to avoid a similar fate.

And even with that said that doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the league, more the consistent and ever growing money gap between the PL and below.

[Crouch Potato]

Klopp has already said he speaks very little German.

https://www.90min.com/posts/6142892-liverpool-manager-jurgen-klopp-reveals-one-problem-with-naby-keita-despite-impressive-debut

Doesn't sound good if he spent 4 years in two German speaking countries, and yet still hadn't learnt much of the language.

Makes me think it could be more of a language problem. Not all players are going to adapt to new languages very quickly.

Wonder if the club has hired a language tutor?

[L.Suarez]

Keita-Wijnaldun-Fabinho is gonna be the way to go and it will be beautiful.

[bornandbRED]

Wolves wasn't great but in general he's been pretty decent. On the periphery at times, but the signs of quality have been there and there were some good performances against West Ham, Spurs, Burnley, United in there. Certainly wouldn't object to a start on the weekend.

[RedG13]

Doesn't sound good if he spent 4 years in two German speaking countries, and yet still hadn't learnt much of the language.

Makes me think it could be more of a language problem. Not all players are going to adapt to new languages very quickly.

Wonder if the club has hired a language tutor?

It seems he has tutor, likely provided by the club. On what i can find looks he set a six month target to learn English and also sturridge helped him settle. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/naby-keita-ongoing-liverpool-difficulty-15403654

[ThePoolMan]

He clearly has the talent and skill required but he has yet to really shine as he is capable of. Whatever the reason for this, the club will wait for him and try to help him adjust faster but it really depends on him. Obviously the club cannot wait for him but must make sure it has the strongest team possible to challenge for the league and CL. So of he doesnt fulfil his potential in time, the club will have to use another player who is more effective and hopefully he will be able to show his quality eventusally.

[tubby]

Don't think him not learning the language yet should have much bearing on his football - Aguero seems to barely speak a word of English and he's been here for years.

[JackWard33]

Don't think him not learning the language yet should have much bearing on his football - Aguero seems to barely speak a word of English and he's been here for years.

It's chutney.. we've had players from all over the planet as have over teams who've been successful without speaking english or only speaking minimal english.
Unfortunately it was given prominence/credence on a popular LFC podcast and has taken root in the fan base as an issue

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It's chutney.. we've had players from all over the planet as have over teams who've been successful without speaking english or only speaking minimal english.
Unfortunately it was given prominence/credence on a popular LFC podcast and has taken root in the fan base as an issue

I'm not sure I agree. Until he learns how to ask for a tuna sandwich and a caffé latte in perfect English, I think he'll continue playing below-par. It has nothing to do with him needing to make more runs off the ball and pass it more quickly when he has it

[redk84]

Quite a young fellow....only 23/24?

I wasn't one of the many salivating at his arrival. Having not seen much of him in other teams but from what I've seen of him with us there looks to be a player there.

At times he's shown glimpses of what he can do and I think some of his poor performances are mainly down to confidence. He's had some decent performances too.

But not sure what's best for him in terms of minutes on the pitch although Klopp has good instincts usually on that side of things. A goal would definitely help lift his spirits. Think this run of 5 games are a great opportunity to play him into a bit of form however this Saturday we need to win (as we do in all games I know but especially on the backl of the recent losses).......and that has to come first. I like Shaqiri from the bench so if Keita starts then great, but if not then I wouldn't be surprised or that bothered to be honest. It'll come.