Topic: End of Season Round Table 2016/17

[Rhi]

With a fairly routine 3-0 win at home to Middlesborough, the season ends. It was about as dramatic as a 3-0 win can be, in truth. Just due to the circumstances. But 2 goals either side of half time all but cemented our 4th placed finish, with Arsenal and Man City already winning elsewhere. A third made the last half hour a walk in the park.

But let's not delve too deep into that. We had to win against Boro, and we did. So we're back in the Champion's League.

With that done and dusted, how do we feel about that 4th placed finish?

Roy Keane had a pop a couple of weeks ago. We shouldn't be celebrating 4th place apparently. But it's not that simple, is it? Yes there's the money. Yes there's the added bonus of attracting the top players. But it's also just fucking brilliant. Some of the best nights of my life have been Champion's League nights at Anfield, and I know I'm not the only one. I was desperate to get back there, and not least because it was vital to our progress as a squad. Klopp made clear that it was the target before the season started. It wasn't going to be easy with Pep, Mourinho, Conte, Wenger and Pochettino all aiming for their own spot in the Top 4. We had no European football to worry about, that's true. But we also didn't have the squad depth of the other 5 teams.

A blistering start to the season meant expectations soared. We were simply sublime at times. Coutinho, Firmino and the insatiable Sadio Mane (who I will gladly admit to being wrong about!) linked up so well that we were unplayable at times. Man City on NYE was supposed to make or break the season, and a 1-0 win really made a statement...

But then... but then... but then everything just broke.

A 2-2 draw away at Sunderland, after a mere 46 hours of recovery. A 0-0 draw at Plymouth in the FA Cup. Sadio Mane went off to the ACN and we seemed lost. A loss against Swansea at home. Leicester sacked Ranieri just before playing us and they sparked into life again at just the wrong moment for us. January and February were grim.

By March we seemed to find our feet again. We started picking up points. Arsenal, City, then Everton in April. Things started to look good once again for the run-in. We were out of the title race, but very much still in the hunt for Top 4. The teams around us had games in hand, but we had the points on the board. Arsenal dropped away, and seemed out of it. United were back in the race for a while, until they weren't, and Arsene Wenger's Arsenal somehow clawed themselves back into the race. They put the pressure on us, that's for sure. Third was almost in our sights. Almost. In the end City were just too strong. And in the end, despite the bed-wetting, Liverpool FC clung on. Or at least that's the narrative. I wouldn't call a 4-0 win and a 3-0 win clinging on. In the end it was a pretty emphatic end to the season, and our target was reached.

If you'd have asked many of us at the start of the season if you'd have taken 76 points and a top 4 finish, I'd say most would have bitten your arm off. In the end it seemed, if anything, almost a little disappointing. But that does a disservice to what a huge jump it has been. Progress is a much-derided word in the football world, but make no mistake, there was very real progress here. You just have to look at the pundits' predictions for Top 4 before the season started to see that. But we made it. And it's onwards and upwards now, Reds.

And while we wait for the inevitable mind-numbingly dull transfer bullshit to start, here are a few questions to consider on the season:


1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?


2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.


4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?


7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

[JerseyKloppite]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

It's an achievement and should be seen in the context of the post-Rafa, post H&G Liverpool. Only the second time in 8 years we've come in the top 4 so it represents welcome progress. Could we have done better? Possibly, but our squad was pretty thin and we had some injury issues. Chelsea's form was superb. For all the criticism of some of our weak home performances against lesser sides, we had an excellent record against the rest of the top 7 and our form towards the end of the season was particularly impressive under pressure from 3/4 other sides for CL places. 8 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss was an excellent recovery from a really spectacular loss of form in January.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

It's a relief but he could get injured and we can't afford to rely on any one player. We look much less effective without him (though it was comforting to see us experiment with a pretty effective diamond in the last couple of games which resulted in good football, 7 goals, 2 clean sheets and 6 points). The only real solution is an alternative who offers at least pace and direct threat as we simply have no one even close to him. I'm not expecting the club to find another Mane, but there are players out there (Zaha being an example, not necessarily a likely signing but just an example) who have similar skillsets who would allow us to maintain a similar style of play.

In fairness there are a few players in the squad where our cover is limited. Karius doesn't yet look a ready replacement for Mignolet, few would want Moreno covering if Milner was injured, we only have one senior right back and most wouldn't want Klavan starting 20+ league games. We also look a body short in the centre of midfield but I'm hopeful Grujic will kick on.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Quite possibly but I don't think we'd have been pushing for the league so it wouldn't have made a spectacular difference. I like Henderson and think he's very important to our pressing game, which delivers our forwards with the ball a) quickly and b) in good positions. He's also developed his passing game and can score some wonderful goals (that one against Chelsea... yum). That said Can has kicked on and was a key part of our run in, with winning goals against Burnley and Watford alone being vital, let alone his wider contribution. For me, I'd like another top CM to play alongside Hendo, Can and Wij (using Grujic in cups or easing him in in the league) as I think with the extra European fixtures next year we're a player short.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Quite possibly. I think much depends on whether we bring in another quality CM or another goalscoring forward - and whether Mane is fit. If he is, and he stretches defences with his pace and running, it creates space between the opposition's defence and midfield which Coutinho (and to a very slightly lesser extent Lallana) is superb at exploiting. Him playing a bit deeper might then be a bit of a waste of his skillset. If our three CMs are fit, how do we fit everyone in, particularly if we do go ahead and sign someone else. However, it is really pleasing to see a player who can bring the ball out of midfield, create space and pick a pass so comfortably. It's certainly nice to have the option.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

One criticism I've seen repeated of Klopp is that he's tactically stubborn - suggestions we lack a plan B, we're too slow to make changes when things aren't working, and that we struggle to break down teams who just sit back and settle for a point. Personally I'm not really concerned. However, the diamond formation's (admittedly limited) success might be an indication that he's willing to be more flexible and try something else, but just as key is getting depth in quality in Klopp's preferred system so that if someone is having an off day, we can bring on a sub to change things and kick on. You only have to look at our bench on the last day of the season to see this illustrated - our only major injuries were Henderson, Mane and Ings and yet our bench had 4 defensive players (Klavan, TAA, Moreno, Lucas), a 19 year old CM with limited game time (Grujic) and one forward (Ings). It's fine to stick with Plan A if you can bring on a new player who can make a difference.

We like a pressing game, and we like a possession game, and when we get a chance we like a counter-attacking game. I can't see any of that changing, or Klopp bringing in some lump of a CF to hurl the ball up to in the last 20 minutes if things aren't working. But I can see us trialling different systems within the same general tactical approach, be that 3-5-2, 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2 diamond. It's useful to be able to mix things up in a way that teams aren't expecting.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Yes. In a word.

We have 5 forwards in our first teams squad: Firmino, Ings, Woodburn, Origi and Sturridge.

Firmino is an excellent footballer and a key part of our squad. He can play across the forward line or in the hole but I just don't see him as an out-and-out centre forward, a natural goalscorer. His superb creativity and link up play results in plenty of chances which can lead to plenty of goals, but again he might be wasted playing as a no. 9.

Ings is coming back from a second serious injury. He plays (or at least did play) an energetic pressing game which Klopp will appreciate, so I can't see him going anywhere, but how strongly he comes back is hard to predict so I'm not sure we should put too much expectation or pressure on him.

Woodburn is 17. He may well be on loan next season (hopefully in the PL at Huddersfield ) but again we shouldn't rely on him.

Sturridge is our most naturally talented CF. His injuries are infuriating but he retains an ability to make things happen AND finish off moves as a clinical striker that our other forwards don't combine. We won't get good value for him because he's not done a lot this season, AND we have more games next year anyway. Give him another year to prove his fitness and offer something to the club; I don't really see what we have to lose in doing so.

Origi is the last one, and the one where I have the controversial opinion... IF we could bring in a top striker, and only if, I would be open to offers for him. He's young yes and has potential, but I don't see much of a spark in him. If the team plays well, he's very effective in linking with the other attacking players, but if things are flat I don't think he ever looks all that likely to create something out of nothing.

So yeah, if we were able to bring in someone new I'd be more inclined to sell Origi than Sturridge; if Sturridge gets injured etc we would have a new striker or Firmino (or Ings) to lead the line. If he doesn't, and he has a good season, then I think he offers more than Origi would.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Fantastic

Bollocks to everyone who thinks we shouldn't celebrate our return to the competition. From 2003 to 2010 we were a CL team, at times one of the very best, and it's been shite not being part of it even when we've had entertaining EL runs. It represents an important step forward under Klopp, but more importantly we get to watch our team play in the premier club competition in the world. Can't wait.

[Titi Camara]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?
I think the reason you've typed out those three options is that it's genuinely a case of it being a bit of all three. In the past 8 seasons we've only been in the top four once and that was when we had arguably the best attack in the league firing on all cylinders, so purely on the basis of our record over the past few years you have to see it as an achievement.
On the flip side, the way we started, the season had offered so much. Potentially we looked like having a decent crack at the title, so to have fallen away does feel disappointing but it's obvious to see the progress we've made, the 13/14 wonder season aside that's our highest points tally since Rafa!
Our league position and CL next season means we are a far more attractive proposition than we were 12 months ago. We need to take advantage and capitalise by buying the best players possible.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?
If Mane is able to come back from injury and rediscover his form from this season it's massive. Whilst we may have had other issues and injuries to cope with in January it's no coincidence that our drop off in form coincided with his absence. If he's here long term it will be a joyous RAWK when he hangs up his international boots!
If we don't buy another winger of Mane's quality this summer then someone needs shooting!

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.
Whilst Mane's absence may have possibly been the biggest limiting factor in our failed title bid, with Coutinho's injury and subsequent drop in form following close after, the next biggest miss has been Jordan. His engine is phenomenal, the sheer ground he covers and the rate as which he does it can't be replaced simply. Can has done a grand job as his understudy but due to his age the inconsistencies in performances were there for all to see. Whereas Lucas's experience and game intelligence mean he doesn't need to be the quickest (when he played at DM or no.6), Can's youth and inexperience means he does, and that was exposed on more than a few occasions.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?
Simply put, yes we will but it doesn't need to be an exclusive arrangement. Injuries and the quality of the opposition will dictate where he plays. I think the more interesting thing will be if he's there more than not though, and I suspect he will. Phil and Lallana ahead of Henderson with three pacey attackers ahead of them will be fucking awesome but we may have to reign that in with a Gini or a Can against those sides with more quality and/or physical presence in the middle.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?
A lesson learned is just that, it comes when it comes. We've intergrated several key players since Klopp arrived and shed a lot the other way, it takes time for things to click for everyone, whether on the field, the training pitch or from a tactical/managerial point of view. I think next season we'll be far more fluid tactically but only if we need to be. One thing which should help will be a full bench Klopp has some faith in to change a game.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?
And more. It may seem harsh but I'd be willing to let Origi go before Sturridge, he's just that fucking good. We've stood by him whilst nursing him back to health, we should be the one's to benefit from that not West fucking Ham! That said it would be remiss of the club not to buy an out and out first choice striker. Shiny New Player, Sturridge, Firmino would be my pecking order when everyone was fit too. Let him train as little as he wants, wrap him in bubble wrap, make him a vegan then let him loose once a week...whilst we all pray

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?
Fucking belting. Do they still have that song at the intro of the program....that's the money shot right there!

[Corkboy]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

No, yes and yes. Sure, it would have been nice to be challenging for a title, or another trophy, but we need those CL nights.


2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Lazar to do a Lazarus for us.


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Don't be silly. He can't run, Ferguson said so.


4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

I think this relates to Sturridge, who can't really play up top on his own like Origi can, meaning Phil drops back a little. He is still a good presser so play him anywhere.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

He's shown already he can adapt.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

I have a real difficulty with letting someone that talented go. He may not be a typical Klopp player, but he's a cold eyed killer in attack, and we don't really have one of them.


7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Mmmm......

[Yorkykopite]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?
All three.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?
It is good. But this annoying tournament is every two years isn't it? And it lands right in the middle of the busiest part of the English season. That's got to affect Liverpool's transfer policy in the future.   


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.
Henderson played in January, during our worst spell, so I'm not sure his injury threw us off balance. We'd already stumbled. Can took a little while to get going, but he's a better prospect. Quicker with the ball, better eye for goal. Sadly, neither of them tackle as well as Lucas. Then again, few players do.


4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?
I hope so. Klopp said that he's too peripheral on the left wing. I agree.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?
Not particularly. Liverpool have been fluent and aggressive for most of the season. Players have interchanged pretty well. Perhaps we played too much football in front of low-block defences for a while, especially after the New Year. There was an awful lot of sideways passing to no purpose. But towards the end of the season it was good to see Lucas and Can getting beyond the ball and even in to the box. Chelsea were masters of this. How many times did they score a goal this season simply because they had 7 or 8 men in the penalty area during open play? Next season I'd also like to see us re-discover the art of scoring early, in the first 5 minutes, as we did in Brendan Rodgers's best season.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?
I've ceased to think rationally about this. When he scores I forget about all the times he's injured. When he's injured I forget all about the time he scores. But, basically, I have no faith that he will ever play 5 games in a row for us again.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?
We're not there yet. But if we do get there it's good news for the Champions' League. The competition is always diminished by Liverpool's absence.

[4pool]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

Looking at the season in context, the goal was getting back into Europe and potentially the top 4. We achieved the target. Had a fantastic points total, even with the slump after the first of the year.


2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Obviously up to Jurgen and maybe incoming player(s) but the system we play needs balance. When Mane is out maybe two strikers and diamond midfield give us that balance. Just as January saw us have so many key players out at once, Jurgen will put out the best side that gives us a chance to win. With 4 clean sheets in the last 5 having a tighter defense will help as well.


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Hendo gives us a different dynamic. We can't project if he stayed healthy what would have happened because maybe Jurgen doesn't go to two strikers the last two matches and we scored 7 goals. We'll need him fit and firing next season. Hopefully his other heel does what the first one does and he gets back to a situation where neither proves a problem.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Horses for courses. We will see Phil in varying roles depending on the opponent.


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

Top managers are flexible. While we started 4-3-3 at the beginning of the season, that doesn't  mean during the match the formation won't morph into something else depending on where the opponent is getting some joy. Like Rafa he moves the pieces around during the match. So I don't worry so much about what the formation is, more that the players can change during the match to Jurgens wishes.


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Yes.



7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Well there is the little matter of the qualifiers. I fully expect us to get through. And when we do, it will be the other sides hoping to avoid us. Let's see how far that ride takes us.

The Reds are coming up the hill boys.

[Crimson_Tank]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

A bit of both really. I remember going into the season wanting to blow the competition away and make a title run at least. But given the improvement of the teams around us at this year's finish I feel getting back into the Champions League is a small achievement. One we can build upon and use as a stepping stone next season and seasons to come. This is compounded by the fact that both United and Arsenal did not make the top four this season which makes our finish all the more of an achievement, as Arsenal have not finished outside of the top four in what feels like a lifetime and that United out spent everyone last summer (Both on wages and transfers). In fact I feel so strongly that this is an achievement that I smoked a fine cigar to celebrate it.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

While it seems like it should be a minute thing, in actuality it is a hugely important  factor for next season. While we may still be plagued by injuries we will not be losing an inform player to international duty while the league plays on. Hopefully we will explore the diamond formation we used in the last two matches of this season should such an injury befall Mane. Additionally I would labor to guess that we will invest in another fast/pacy winger/wide-forward this summer.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Perhaps we might have finished in third but I don't think that Henderson's absence led us to missing out on the top two places. Also, Can came up with a few important goals while Henderson was out and his disruptive play continued to grow in Jordans absence.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Who is to say on this one, speculation is just that, speculation. Remember at the beginning of the season Klopp said don't expect him to line up his team in the same manner all season when, in fact, he did exactly that for nearly the whole season bar the last two matches. I think playing him as an 8 could be brilliant as he can always press up and occupy the no. 10 role whenever he wants or is needed. If I were an opposition manager I would hate, HATE, having to guess how we will utilize the little magician week in and week out. It would be both infuriating and memorizing. Captivating really. Sort of the opposite of most of United's games this season, in that one would not be able to look away.


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

Flexibility is a tool that Klopp showed us he has. It is a tool that many, fans and pundits alike, thought he did not possess. Well look out because Klopp can now be as unpredictable as our front three.  Watch out, because Klopp may try the diamond with Mane just to bamboozle the world and delight us.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Undoubtedly yes, but is he worth another season in Liverpool's red kit? That is a question. If his preseason is injury free and he sharpness remains, maybe so as we will not be able to sell the lad for what we value him and it is unlikely that he would leave us for club not on a similar level to us.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

I have been grinning for a few days now, but now the real work begins. We need remind everyone that we belong here, we didnt fluke this. We are here because we deserve to be. We have a European pedigree. We are Liverpool FC. We have won it FIVE TIMES.

"We won it in Wembley,
We won it in Gay Paris,
In '77 and '84 it was Rome,
We've won it four times,
we've won it four times,
In Istanbul we'll win it five times,
We won it five times, we won it five times.
In Istanbul we won it five times."

Liverpool FC and Champions League Football go hand in hand. "Liverpool without European football is like a banquet without wine." Roy Evans. Well, as many of you know I love wine and it is time we open some up from the cellar. I know I am.

Cheers.

[Hazell]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

We've certainly improved over the past couple of years and I think it needs to be seen as such as opposed to where we were mid season. That's obviously a disappointment but the more realistic target since the end of last season was to challenge/get into the top four. In that respect, we've done what we set out to do. It's obviously not an end in itself but a means to an end and a stepping stone to us hopefully competing for domestic and european trophies again.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Get back to you on 1st September We obviously need to strengthen the squad so that we won't feel injuries as we much as we have done this season. Having another Mane type is definitely something we could do with.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

We would have, though maybe still not challenged for the title. We were a little unlucky with the number of injuries we had but the squad needs strengthening so when injuries occur, the drop off in quality isn't felt as much. We don't have another like Henderson, or Mane for that matter, in the squad so it affects the way we normally play. This summer should hopefully rectify that.

I do worry about Henderson long term though, this injury seems chronic which would be awful for him but would make it imperative for us to fix it player wise this transfer window.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Not sure. I'll let the tactical experts decide. As long as we win and play well, I don't really care.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

I don't know if it's him needing to be more flexible or him still building the team he wants. A bit of both though I'm leaning more towards the latter. He's only been here a year and half and I didn't expect him to come in and blow everyone away immediately. We had a brilliant first half of the season and a not so great second half which was due to a number of factors - injuries, tiredness, teams defending deeper and deeper and being happy with a point (and some of them exploiting our defensive vulnerabilities and getting three). Player recruitment will go some way to resolving some of those next season but yeah, there's definitely things we could work on in terms of improving defensive solidarity and looking at how we could tweak things to break those types of teams down.

We'll have a much better idea of where we are under him next season I think.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Yep. I don't think he'll be a regular starter under Klopp, given he seems to like playing with three forwards and add to that, Sturridge is a bit of an individualist (not that I have an issue with that, strikes tend to be) unlike Firmino and yeah, he has his injury problems but I'd like him to stay, he's super talented and could be important in being the type of player that could break those aforementioned defensive teams down. I think it's 50/50 at the moment whether he stays or leaves but given the choice, it's a simple one for me.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

My immediate thoughts are let's get though the qualifiers as I tend to worry about these things (and I don't think I'll be as upset as some if we don't get through that) but those nights we had under Rafa were some of the best I've had supporting the club. I can see the same happening under Klopp. But I'll take his first season in the Champions League with us mirroring Rafa's for starters

[hesbighesred]

I'm delighted, it's been an extremely tough season at the top, and we're one of the last standing. 75 points to finish 5th for Arsenal is unprecedented. Leicester won it relatively easily in the end with only 6 more! Once again, they did the business over the course of the season but, just this once, 4 other teams did better, and took their place in that Champion's League.

Forgive me for not answering the questions directly, though my ramble will touch on some of the points, but I've been mulling over a comparison with Spurs. Look at their progression over the last two seasons. At key points, what would you have thought their targets were? I guess firstly, under Pochettino, establish a system. Check. Next, become consistent. Check. Next, solidify in some key areas. Check. After last season? Don't fall away at the end. Check. After losing Kane? Find a way to win without him. Check. Then Kane comes back in and they start obliterating teams.

Now think of us without Mane - but Coutinho also injured or coming back to form. Now think of us in recent weeks - finding a way to win without Mane, and often without Mane and Coutinho (not to mention other pretty important injuries and the unsettled back four). Imagine Mane's current spell out with Coutinho in form had been our January. Now imagine Mane coming back in to the team as it's been playing recently.

Managers and players learn a lot by coming through the bad times. Each bad patch we've had under Klopp, as with Spurs under Pochettino, we've come back with another string to our bow. Maybe not come back on blistering form, but come back in some way stronger. This run to end the season has been tough, gritty stuff. Agonising to watch at times, horribly frustrating at others. We didn't burst through the finish tape, not quite a sprint finish. But by hook or by crook, we got it done. We ground out results, we clung onto points, we refused to make it easy on ourselves - for sure - but we also didn't make it easy for anyone else.

I think if we set things out like that - had a look at realistic targets at each stage under Klopp, we'd find we'd been ticking them off too.

And, just like it must be for Spurs fans, it's frustrating that there's holes - that there's pieces of the jigsaw you can see missing. But isn't it better to see the picture and thus, see the exact shapes we're missing, rather than just having a jumble of random pieces without a real clue what's going on? It's the first time I've really consistently had that feeling since Rafa left - that the big picture is visible and the pieces needed to fill it are clear. I don't want to dwell on them - I think if we all put down our top, say, 7 things to improve we might have a different order but I bet nearly all of us would have 5 or 6 of those 7 as the same thing.

It's exciting.

Another exciting thing is Klopp's record in the Champion's League and our record against top teams under Klopp. We're going to be nasty bastards to play against in that competition, if we get far enough to be able to bloody some noses. The very top teams in Europe don't look quite as strong as they have in recent years - I think every one of them has a soft underbelly that we could rip out. Maybe not to win the thing, but I'd back us to make the Elite of the Elite shit in their pants again, for sure.

I can't wait for next season.

[Rhi]

Whilst Mane's absence may have possibly been the biggest limiting factor in our failed title bid, with Coutinho's injury and subsequent drop in form following close after, the next biggest miss has been Jordan. His engine is phenomenal, the sheer ground he covers and the rate as which he does it can't be replaced simply. Can has done a grand job as his understudy but due to his age the inconsistencies in performances were there for all to see. Whereas Lucas's experience and game intelligence mean he doesn't need to be the quickest (when he played at DM or no.6), Can's youth and inexperience means he does, and that was exposed on more than a few occasions.

Hmmm, for me it's more about the speed of play, and our transition from defence to attack, or holding possession to attack, when Can is playing as a 6 compared to Hendo. I just feel we lack incision. That was exacerbated by Mane's absence, no doubt, but I do feel that this part of our game was overlooked. We just looked so ponderous on the ball at times without Henderson's ability to change the pace of the game. It's something Alonso (and Gerrard as he matured) was a master at - knowing when to slow it down and when to play a quick ball forward. Can just doesn't seem to have that in his repertoire and we struggled because of it, IMO.

Who is to say on this one, speculation is just that, speculation. Remember at the beginning of the season Klopp said don't expect him to line up his team in the same manner all season when, in fact, he did exactly that for nearly the whole season bar the last two matches. I think playing him as an 8 could be brilliant as he can always press up and occupy the no. 10 role whenever he wants or is needed. If I were an opposition manager I would hate, HATE, having to guess how we will utilize the little magician week in and week out. It would be both infuriating and memorizing. Captivating really. Sort of the opposite of most of United's games this season, in that one would not be able to look away.

Did he really say that at the start of the season? I must have missed that! I wonder why things changed? Injuries presumably? But it's not like there weren't other opportunities to change things up.

If Coutinho is to play as an 8 more regularly, I'm desperate for us to get a real tackler in the midfield too. Players fucking coast through the middle of our team at times, and I'd love a real terrier (Mascherano!) in there that can break the play up. Especially if we've got Coutinho and Lallana both in a middle 3, or 2 of a diamond. Both put in a shift, but you don't want them doing too much defensive work. And I think we've proved this season we have a bit of a defensive weakness through the middle. Or, in truth, it's a weakness that's been there for a number of years.

I do like the idea of opposition managers not knowing where Phil is going to play, though.

[Rhi]

Forgive me for not answering the questions directly, though my ramble will touch on some of the points, but I've been mulling over a comparison with Spurs.

No probs at all. A welcome move to bringing a bit of discussion in now rather than just a Q&A! Thanks!

Interesting to see the comparison to Spurs. I think they'll fall off a bit next season with having to play at Wembley, so if we continue on our upwards trajectory, there's a very exciting season ahead for us. Definitely know what you mean about good managers learning from each period of struggle. Learning to grind out hard away wins was really big for us this season, as was learning to win without Mane. But we need to do that more consistently next season now. And we need to do it with the added distraction of European football. What a lovely challenge to have in front of us!

[hesbighesred]

No probs at all. A welcome move to bringing a bit of discussion in now rather than just a Q&A! Thanks!

Interesting to see the comparison to Spurs. I think they'll fall off a bit next season with having to play at Wembley,

A big challenge for them, for sure.

But we need to do that more consistently next season now. And we need to do it with the added distraction of European football. What a lovely challenge to have in front of us!

Yes indeed, and that consistency rests, I think, on bloody mindedness. It's a shame we ended the season with a bit of a whimper ('Boro aside) at Anfield, but it's encouraging how few we've conceded in the last month or two.

By the way, before I forget, a special word for Mignolet. He started the season well enough that it was harsh for him to be dropped, and he's been class since coming back in, he really looks like he's believing in himself as a top-class 'keeper. I never thought I'd use this word to describe him, I've been a critic since almost day one, but: Commanding.

And thanks for gathering us round this, err, round table Rhi!

[Crimson_Tank]

Did he really say that at the start of the season? I must have missed that! I wonder why things changed? Injuries presumably? But it's not like there weren't other opportunities to change things up.

If Coutinho is to play as an 8 more regularly, I'm desperate for us to get a real tackler in the midfield too. Players fucking coast through the middle of our team at times, and I'd love a real terrier (Mascherano!) in there that can break the play up. Especially if we've got Coutinho and Lallana both in a middle 3, or 2 of a diamond. Both put in a shift, but you don't want them doing too much defensive work. And I think we've proved this season we have a bit of a defensive weakness through the middle. Or, in truth, it's a weakness that's been there for a number of years.

I do like the idea of opposition managers not knowing where Phil is going to play, though.

He did say something of the sort, sometime early in the season, but then the cheeky sod kept up playing Bobby as a false 9 and the rest was just goals, goal, goals.

I agree, I would love a player in the build of Masherano/Kante. Some to disrupt play and hound the opposition endlessly. Give them no quarter. Make them tire-out then we hit them with more pace. 

[Rhi]

^

[SerbianScouser]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?
All three really.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?
I'm pretty sure we'll be better prepared next season if Mane gets injured again. I think the bigger issue than his injury was Klopp's insistence to continue with 433 instead of looking at players available and tailoring adequate tactical frame for them like he did with 442 diamond. What gets lost in this is that it wasn't just Mane it was Mane plus Lallana which in total was a debilitating blow for us.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.
Not for me. Emre is a superior to Hendo as a DM option, more dominant, more direct, more ability to make forward passes through the middle, it's not even a contest in my book. It was lovely seeing him clatter into Boro's grock of a striker on a couple of occasions. It's beautiful to know that with Emre in our DM we won't be bullied in this league. If given a chance there I'm more than sure by the end of next season he'll be recognised as an elite DM in this league, now for that contract to be sorted out, it's a must.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?
It's all about knowing when to use him there. Whenever you see Lovren and Milner having all of the ball in the build-up you can be sure we'll struggle in that game to get going and it's always coupled with Mignolet's hoofing which make things even worse. All this issues go away when Phil is dictating tempo and taking control of the middle third. The key will be to recognise the perils of using him there against the teams against which games will be box-to-box affairs like Spurs and City for example. What excites me about Phil in CM even more than his creativity is that in theory we should now fare much, much better when teams want to press us high in order for us to kick it long which is exactly what these teams want and with Phil our chances of turning these teams around improve dramatically.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?
Yes. With two years to go silence around his potential contract renewal is deafening but it would be really shrewd if we kept him around because you can go away with ultra attacking line-ups against bottom half teams especially at home. We have to be creative next season, maximize our capacities , utilise horses for courses approach and I think that would put us in a better position to be successful.


7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?
I'm convinced out of my mind that we will make some serious damage in CL. Since Klopp took over we lost only one single game out of 21 within Top 7. You just can't underestimate how impressive that is. And those are practically CL level teams against which we have a way of playing that works, the way we put organised pressure on these teams and make them play worse than usual. If we manage to get our primary targets in you can mark my word, Liverpool will again be a massive force in the elite competition.

[EPortJake]

Before the season started I was just looking for improvement - a sign that Klopp was really stamping his mark. 5th would have been a good season, anything extra a bonus.
But after our amazing run up until December, 4th seems about right. I still think we have excelled though. On paper I think we had the weakest squad of the top 6.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[Rhi]

I still think we have excelled though. On paper I think we had the weakest squad of the top 6.

Yeah, I think that's fair, actually. Our first 11 is up there, but as a squad we have nowhere near the depth of quality of the other 5 teams. Given that, I really do think we should consider it a successful season, good progress, and a platform for bigger and better things next season.

[exiledintheUSA]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

No disappointment here.  If I'm honest we probably have the 6th best squad in the league, when our first 12/13 players are fit our starting 11 is as good as anything around, once 3 or 4 of them are out we struggle. 

I honestly believe us getting CL footy back is the real start of the Klopp era.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Cry.  Or work this summer to ensure we have options if he does get injured, same for Lalana, Phil and Bobby.


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Yes, think we would have ended with 8-10 pts more with Hendo chugging along nicely in the 6 role.


4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Have a sneaky feeling this may be all part of a master plan to stop his head being turned by a team in Sunny Spain.  Yes, he'll play in the 8 role moer next season.


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

I think he does need to be, the PL requires a different way of thinking, especially with all the anti-football teams like Stoke, Palace, United and Everton.


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

100%.  You'll know if he moves on he'll have a full season, injury free and bang in 20 goals.


7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Boss

[FlashingBlade]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

At beginning of season 4th was the hope ..along with a Trophy....but the bastards raised our hopes ...and then let us down...4th was great but I see no Trophy. So to conclude lost a shilling found a sixpence!


2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Once I worked out what ACN meant , I say , yes its good. If Mane gets injured we play that other shit hot winger/striker back up we bought in the summer.


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

No!...maybe!..yes!..er!...what are the lottery numbers?


4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Thought early on in season he would suit that role...think he played it at home to Hull...but! if continued next season, he will be man marked. Some games he will, some he wont, depends on opposition.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

Sort the defending out ( individually, unit and team)  is the priorty.


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Only if his mentally and physically 100%...ok I will take 99% ...but thats it.


7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Tell you after the qualyfying games.

[JackWard33]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?


No disappointment. We had the 5th or 6th best squad this season so we over achieved. 
We didn't do enough last summer or in January and - given the level of our first team when fit - we turned top 4 from something that should have been comfortable (Spurs situation) to a scramble.
Very happy we got over the line; its vital for this club we're in the Champions League


2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?


No one player should be vital to the team - its mismanagement that we had one pacy forward in the squad this season.
Hopefully our summer will make us less reliant on him because he's unlikely to play every game



3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.


Yeah. He's still stupidly under rated by sections of our fan base but you can see the difference when he doesn't play. For all the talk of DMs or other players in his position - we've never been credibly linked with one and Klopp hasn't picked anyone above him there when he's fit. Can showed enough that he should be his back up / rotate with him



4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?


Yeah we will.
Klopp historically plays pacy forwards in the wide positions - Coutinho can play there because he's just so fucking good he can play anywhere.
Depends what shape we play - he could be one of 3 if we go back to using 4231 sometimes.
He should definitely be playing in midfield at home and away against the bottom 12. Nit picking its probably a mistake we didn't try it sooner this year when we struggled against some bus parkers....hindsight and all that



5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?


He places a lot of importance on drilling a system - especially without the ball. And I think that's why he was so slow to change it.
Apart from our transfer activity the biggest mistake was our failure to adapt when we lost Mane and Coutinho - though the two are linked
I suspect he'll try and get the players this summer to allow him to play a similar approach that worked so well in the first part of the season. Not sure on shape it might depend on personnel... it'll have Firmino as the first choice 9 so everyone can stop banging on about new high priced strikers


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?



Of course.

Big clubs don't move top talent on for accountancy reasons. They acquire and keep it.
Unless Klopp has a report from doctors saying he's can't play more than a few games a season you keep him and add more attackers



7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?


It's awesome - most important football competition in the world.
Top 4 isn't a trophy but its vital for our club.

I'll sign off on a controversial note... I hope we fuck off the domestic cups in a big way next season
Use them to develop the kids and don't worry about the results (we still might be good enough to do well)
We're never going to be deep enough to compete on 4 fronts and every year our season is derailed over the winter with the extra games
If we get the summer right with the first team that already exists and our world class coach we have a legit shot to be near the top of the league and go deep in the CL everything should be geared to those 2 goals

[Gnurglan]

We started off well and then came January and our season crashed. Performance wise, the good stuff was our performance against the top sides. The bad was our dreadful record against the bottom half sides. I don't like that. I kind of wish we had smashed all the bottom half sides, but struggled a bit against the top sides. Reason being that the big games are always a bit 50/50. Now we played well there and then threw it all away against worse sides. This is also why I'm disappointed we didn't get 3rd. We really should have. The best side we lost to, looking at the league position, was Bournemouth (9th). If we take all season, all competitions, it was Southampton (8th). And for this we got 4th. I struggle to see real joy in that. It's like we prefer to turn up for big games and then we take a more casual approach against the bottom half sides. Next season we need to get the job done against those teams. We will not be able to avoid defeat against the best sides another season.

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

Like I hinted above, I find 4th a bit of a disappointment. It's OK, but more as a relief that we managed to get the job done at the end to finish top four. It should be a stepping stone to better things. I mean, after being out of the CL a natural first step is to get back in again. Now we have the chance and that's fine. We should have secured 3rd. It was there for the taking. Personally, I think 2nd was within reach. That Chelsea were extraordinary is actually a good thing for me. We didn't have it in us to win the title this season. Makes it easier to accept those results against the bottom half sides.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Mane turned out to be a key player for us. A fantastic signing. Every time he doesn't play we'll see the effect. So no African Nations is a good thing for us. For next season I think we'll secure another player who can contribute with similar things that Mane gives us. So the effect will be there, but I believe/hope we should be better off next season if he's out.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Henderson was a big loss. He's been out for so long that we've almost forgotten about him. But I think he's the first pick in a midfield three and I welcome him back. We'll be stronger with him in there. With him and Mane fit all season, I reckon we would have made 2nd.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

The way I see Coutinho is as the central player in the '3' in a 4-2-3-1. We could call it a 4-3-3, but it's the same role. There's a slight problem with that role though. If we move Coutinho to the center, that's fine for him. It would be him and Henderson guaranteed in two of the three central roles. But what happens to Wijnaldum and Lallana? What happens to Can? Expand on that a little. Let's say we sign a new first pick striker. That would immediately throw Firmino to the same group of players as Lallana & Co. When we play Coutinho on the left, it's easier to find room for the other players. I suspect he'll play quite a few games down the left next season as well.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

The diamond suits us with the options we have. We are short of wide options, in particular with Mane out. But that's not all. We also create room for two strikers. Which is better than shifting Firmino or Origi to the wing. I'm undecided which direction we should go from here. My preference is to think in terms of 4-2-3-1 because I think it highlights the roles for the players the best. I'll leave it at that.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

I'd like to say 'yes, if he could stay fit'. We all know his quality. Etc. But I'll avoid that and make a call. I think we need to sell. He's a high quality striker, but he's not reliable enough. In reality he's been third pick this season. We can't afford that. I've discussed this in other threads recently, partly to see what people say for/against and see which side I think has the stronger case. The more I've read, the more I believe we need to stop being so sentimental. The reality is Sturridge has not been reliable since 13/14. During that time we haven't had a striker performing like a first pick. We can't wait anymore. Get the first pick and if we need to, sell all current strikers bar Firmino. Origi won't be a first pick for us in the near future, but he's available to play and he's likely to be on much lower wages than Sturridge.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

It's great! Hasn't been the same watching the competition when we're not in it. Looking forward to it, even if we have a qualifier first.

[Gnurglan]

He did say something of the sort, sometime early in the season, but then the cheeky sod kept up playing Bobby as a false 9 and the rest was just goals, goal, goals.

I agree, I would love a player in the build of Masherano/Kante. Some to disrupt play and hound the opposition endlessly. Give them no quarter. Make them tire-out then we hit them with more pace. 

Yes. We'd improve straight away if we had one. It may not be top priority for next season, but we will need to add this kind of quality in a near future. For the time being we need to sign a first pick LB and address some other things, but a first pick defensive midfielder would definitely be welcome. Can isn't this player. Lucas isn't and Henderson isn't either. Play Kante with Henderson and Coutinho in a midfield three and things would be different. Then keep Wijnaldum, Lallana and even Can/Lucas and that's all the CMs we need. And we'd be in a much better shape.

[JackWard33]

Yes. We'd improve straight away if we had one. It may not be top priority for next season, but we will need to add this kind of quality in a near future. For the time being we need to sign a first pick LB and address some other things, but a first pick defensive midfielder would definitely be welcome. Can isn't this player. Lucas isn't and Henderson isn't either. Play Kante with Henderson and Coutinho in a midfield three and things would be different. Then keep Wijnaldum, Lallana and even Can/Lucas and that's all the CMs we need. And we'd be in a much better shape.

It would make us worse. Just like having Lucas there made us worse. This system needs someone who can distribute from deep not a destroyer. That's why Henderson has been picked there whenever he's fit and why we haven't been credibly linked with a single kante / mascherano type since klopps been here

[Yorkykopite]

It would make us worse. Just like having Lucas there made us worse. This system needs someone who can distribute from deep not a destroyer. That's why Henderson has been picked there whenever he's fit and why we haven't been credibly linked with a single kante / mascherano type since klopps been here

You would admit, though, that we lost our way in January when Henderson was playing?

[JackWard33]

You would admit, though, that we lost our way in January when Henderson was playing?

This is a season round table and for the sake of everyone's sanity and reading pleasure I'd suggest we don't rehash the dumpster fire that was the Henderson thread. People can go back there and find out where everyone stands and no one is changing their minds with a rehashing are they?

[Yorkykopite]

This is a season round table and for the sake of everyone's sanity and reading pleasure I'd suggest we don't rehash the dumpster fire that was the Henderson thread. People can go back there and find out where everyone stands and no one is changing their minds with a rehashing are they?

I agree. That's why I was puzzled that you singled out Gnurglan's  mild criticism of Henderson and started off on one.

[JackWard33]

I agree. That's why I was puzzled that you singled out Gnurglan's  mild criticism of Henderson and started off on one.

I didn't and he didn't. You're on a hair trigger over this.  I was talking about player type and system
If we didn't have Henderson klopp would sign a similar player to play in his position - he won't be signing a "kante / mascherano " type because our deepest lying midfielder can't just be a destroyer

[Gnurglan]

It would make us worse. Just like having Lucas there made us worse. This system needs someone who can distribute from deep not a destroyer. That's why Henderson has been picked there whenever he's fit and why we haven't been credibly linked with a single kante / mascherano type since klopps been here

I'm not sure Henderson's best role is as the deepest in midfield. He did a lot of good when he was used in a more advanced role under Rodgers, when Gerrard was deep. Should Lucas leave, then Can is the only first team player we have that I'd class as a defensive midfielder. While he's doing alright, he's no Kante or Mascherano. And if I'd have the option between those two, I'd pick Mascherano. His ability on the ball, together with his defensive abilities would be most welcome.

[JackWard33]

I'm not sure Henderson's best role is as the deepest in midfield. He did a lot of good when he was used in a more advanced role under Rodgers, when Gerrard was deep. Should Lucas leave, then Can is the only first team player we have that I'd class as a defensive midfielder. While he's doing alright, he's no Kante or Mascherano. And if I'd have the option between those two, I'd pick Mascherano. His ability on the ball, together with his defensive abilities would be most welcome.

Doesn't it seem pretty evident that Klopp doesn't want that type of player there? He's had plenty of opportunity to go get one

[Yorkykopite]

I'm not sure Henderson's best role is as the deepest in midfield. He did a lot of good when he was used in a more advanced role under Rodgers, when Gerrard was deep. Should Lucas leave, then Can is the only first team player we have that I'd class as a defensive midfielder. While he's doing alright, he's no Kante or Mascherano. And if I'd have the option between those two, I'd pick Mascherano. His ability on the ball, together with his defensive abilities would be most welcome.

I actually think Can is more creative than Mascherano. He's certainly better on the ball.

My last word on Henderson (and my first post on the subject since Xmas) - since Jack Ward 33 doesn't like to hear me on this. I agree with you Gnurglan. Henderson's best games have been in an advanced role. Think of Tottenham and Arsenal away in the season we were pipped for the title. See how he exploited their high line with powerful off-the-ball runs into all that empty space.

But who would you drop to accommodate this Henderson? Lallana? Mane? Coutinho? And what's Hendo like when the opposition does not play a high line and sits back instead, with 10 men behind the ball? 

 

[Gnurglan]

Doesn't it seem pretty evident that Klopp doesn't want that type of player there? He's had plenty of opportunity to go get one

True. He's had time. I don't think it will be a top priority just yet. We have other areas where we're lacking and in CM we have quite a few options. For example, I think LB and CB, plus an attacking player are more important. We'll gain more from addressing that.

That said, I do believe a more defensive CM would represent an improvement. Wijnaldum, Henderson and Lallana have shown to be good going forward before. Coutinho and Mane are naturally the same. What our group of midfield options doesn't have is that leading more defensive-minded CM. We have Can, Lucas and Stewart.

[riismeister]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?
All of the above. If you asked me on August 13th last year if I'd take 4th I probably would have. If you asked the same on January 1st this year I'd say 'hell no'. Based on our performances in recent years this was a significant improvent of performance in the league and hopefully it's just a stepping stone to better things.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?
Pretty good. We have needed another quality winger all season (in addition to Mane) and should definitely do everything necessary to get one this summer. I'd even take two if one of them can double as an alternative centrally.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.
In the sense that continuity is good, perhaps. Altough, he did play in 5 out of the 7 January/February league matches which was our weakest period by far. We only took 6 points from those 7 matches. In the 12 matches we've played in March/April/May we've taken 27 points, which is actually close to league winning form. I personally don't think turning on the ball and quick transitions are among Henderson's strengths, and it's definitely something I'd look for in new midfield signings. (For the record; I rate Henderson highly, but I do think he has a couple of weaknesses that needs to be addressed)

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?
As long as he can be close to the goal to score when needed and drop deep to create something when needed I don't think his initial starting position is actually all that important. It would be nice to be able to play Coutinho behind a striking trio though (Mane/Firmino/new winger), but it would probably mean the other two midfielders would have to run their legs off.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?
I think this will depend on who we bring in, who leaves, and of which players are available for any given match next season. We'll probably start next season with more quality debth, which in turn may give Klopp the opportunity to play his prefered system even with a couple of key players unavailable. On the other side of the coin, Klopp may see that other systems works as well and may change the system as a tactical desition depending on our oppoistion. Time will show.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?
Yes. We have to replace him if he leaves and I think there are at least 4 positions other than striker that is more in need of new blood.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?
I can't fekkin wait.

[Gnurglan]

My last word on Henderson (and my first post on the subject since Xmas) - since Jack Ward 33 doesn't like to hear me on this. I agree with you Gnurglan. Henderson's best games have been in an advanced role. Think of Tottenham and Arsenal away in the season we were pipped for the title. See how he exploited their high line with powerful off-the-ball runs into all that empty space.

But who would you drop to accommodate this Henderson? Lallana? Mane? Coutinho? And what's Hendo like when the opposition does not play a high line and sits back instead, with 10 men behind the ball?   

I think Henderson could work against those sides as well. When we've played those defensive sides, I've missed runs from deep. Like the play that Wijnaldum scored from vs Boro. We can't rely on our only striker to make all the runs.

Realistically, we can't drop Mane and we can't drop Coutinho. So we have to choose two from Wijnaldum, Can and Lallana (if we forget Lucas, Milner, Stewart,... as options) and leave the third one out. Add a first pick LM and move Coutinho to the center and we're in for a real selection headache. I just don't see how we'll leave Henderson out and if we want him in a free-er role, I think we need to consider a more defensive CM behind Henderson and Coutinho.

[DanA]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

4th was an overachievement based on spending and the squad so it was a good achievement, all seasons ebb and flow and if you take our performance from New Years on it was a disappointment but we also recovered nicely after a horror patch. We had some problems that we should have seen coming and hopefully will be addressed. Chiefly, those related to squad depth and a lack of quality wide options. Once Mane was missing we were on the ropes. 

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Very thankful not to have ACN this year and it could have been worse if Matip had have gone. The reality is we probably weren't going to win the title given the way Chelsea played but it has to be a learning experience, we have to reduce the reliance on Mane which means a new winger, maybe two that have pace and score goals.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.
We are definitely a much better player with Jordan Henderson, at least in my opinion we are. I do agree we move the ball better with Henderson in the team but probably more than that is the ground he covers and how well he performs when isolated as is the case sometimes with our defenders the way we play. We weren't a mile off 3rd so not unrealistic to think we could have finished there, the good news is his injury I(if it's plantar fasciitis) isn't really a permanent thing, it's just really hard to fuck off. Once it's gone though there should be no residual lingering effects.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?
To me, this comes back to reducing reliance on Mane. If we get the kind of winger with the talent to cover for Mane than that talent will warrant regular game time in a wide position. I still think Coutinho will play a fair bit on the left side but I also think he might be deployed centrally and we might see Mane play some time as a striker in a 4-4-2 diamond or as the AM in a 4-2-3-1 in addition to our regular 4-3-3.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

I think the more valuable lesson is that we need an alternative to Mane that can play wide but, yeah it's probably fair to say that without him, we need Coutinho centrally and our strikers pulling the defense apart. We can't really do it with the likes of Lallana and Coutinho out wide. They can dribble and beat a man but they don't have the pace to take advantage of it in wide areas.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?
I'm firmly in the no camp and it was the same with Daniel Agger in the end. I love the talent but it hinders our progress waiting on a player that is so rarely fit. We need to move on to the next chapter where hopefully we can identify the next Suarez, Torres or Owen.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?
It's exciting, bigger games, more tension and the carnival atmosphere is hard to match. For me it's not about the money or the signings, it's about our lads matched up against the likes of Barcelona, PSG, Juventus and Bayern Munich. Given our record against top 6 teams, I think we're a sleeper team to do well in the competition. Just need to have the depth to cope with it all. We blew it last time around with Rodgers, Klopp is a bit more experienced though, he should know better.

[DanA]

On Henderson, I think he's a DM. He had a cracking season up until Chrismas where injury really slowed him down. He started missing time right after New Year, returned for the Man City game, and hobbled through the next month before pulling the pin.  But it was a pretty impressive year from our captain and I think he was the best DM in the league up til that point.

The way I see it Henderson is our best no.6 at a canter but as a no.8 I'm not sure he's any better than either of Can or Wijnaldum. I think Jordan's best position is debatable but the competition limits the benefit of pushing him forward. What I would like though is for the level of competition at DM to improve, replace Lucas and Stewart with a quality option to challenge Henderson. I still think our captain will beat out just about anyone we bring in but that doesn't mean I don't want to see it.

He can play CM and do it very well, especially in a Klopp type system. To me, if comes down to who we sign, if we sign a midfielder at all. If we got a guy like Keita then I'd keep Henderson as our no.6 and play Keita in front of him, pulling him back when Henderson is needs a rest or is out. But if we signed a guy like Bakayoku then I would push Henderson forward and play him as our 2nd choice DM.  But the way I see it, he is currently our best DM and 3rd best CM (behind Coutinho and Lallana) with it pretty close between Can, Wijnaldum

[deFacto please, you bastards]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

It's still an achievement considering a couple of things. One being that this is only the 2nd time we've finished in the top four in the last 8 years. Also despite the great start, it was unsustainable due to the size of the squad, and the injuries. When you take into account that Coutinho,Firmino,Lallana,Henderson played only 10 league games together and we finished 4th, that's a massive achievement, they're all integral parts of the system and the side. It' an achievement because it's a stepping stone in the right direction. Someone mentioned the other day that this is probably the only time since 2006 that we finished the season on a high note. Everything else since then has ended in some kind of disappointment [Athens,2nd place, Rafa being sacked, no trophies or significant finishes, losing the title in 13/14, losing the two finals last year] It's a sign of better things to come under a manager that suits this club and its players.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

It's fantastic, its a month of football where Mane will be available. What we should do to prepare for a potential injury to Mane is sign a player of similar playing style and pace right now this summer [i.e. Salah], we need more quality and pace if we want to compete in 4 competitions. People are in love with the starting XI idea, and only having quality players in the starting XI, you need quality player on the bench in a 65 plus game season.


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

I am not entirely sure. I do believe that if Lallana,Mane and Coutinho weren't injured and played more often we would have finished 2nd .

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

I don't think anything is set in stone. I do believe though that it will give us an option and I am pleased that Klopp is willing to adapt and make changes to his line up. Because for a chunk of the season he wasn't budging with 4-3-3 even when we didn't have the players to play well in that system due to injuries.


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

I believe everyone learned something this past season, Klopp especially as he knows now even more how to prepare the squad for a long season, especially with Europe this year. He will need to be flexible as possible and hopefully we will sign another player similar to Mane, because pace is a huge asset in our system


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Yes but we need another center-forward.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?


It feels nostalgic. Last time we were there we were poor, I didn't like Rodgers in Europe at all and we didn't give a good account of ourselves. I'm more confident in Klopp

[dudleyred]

Overall i'm pleased with the season to be fair.

Last year we threw all our eggs in one basket with the Europa League and came up short. This was especially disappointing as it meant no European football for us. For me there was two aims to the season. Regain European football and show progress in the league.

Firstly the league - we have put an extra 16 points on top of what we had last year. Slightly skewed by the last 4 or so games last year when we played shadow sides but progress nonetheless. We had the most points from losing positions this time around of any team in the league. that shows progress. Yes we still have a soft under belly and dropped stupid points but on the whole that was a successful season. We cant help what other teams do. Chelsea were exceptional, but they were exceptional with a title winning squad just two seasons ago. Tottenham were excellent but in the end they won as much as we did! If i look at the Tottenham team i think they struggle to improve their first eleven next season. I look at ours and we have a chance to improve the starting line up and the squad.

European football is going to be back. As a fan i wasn't fussed which competition in all honesty. I just love European nights at Anfield. We got Champions league. what does this mean? It means huge games at Anfield, it means a scramble for tickets and it also means a huge expense. Fully expect to see tickets in the main stand go north of £70 for the tournament. But more importantly it means we are back where we belong. Klopp is built for European battles. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us in the Champions league still in April.

in specific reply to the questions posed:

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

No its about right. We started great and we probably raised our expectations too high. top four for only the second time in what, 8 years? 16 points more than last year. stepping stone to better things is a fair report

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

In 6-9 months he's become the main man. Great there's no ACN this season but we desperately need a backup or plan B. Mane can't play all 50+ games next year and perform at his best so we need cover or if we are really moving forward we need equally good and not just cover. my concern with being touted towards Salah is he will be off to future ACN too - that for me would be bad planning

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

I'm not sure in all honesty. We struggled in the games where we had 70% possession and a wall of oppo in front of us. I look at it and think Can came on great when Hendo was out. We have now developed a player more than we would have. Do i think we would have broken the resistance down with Henderson - only if he hit one from 30 yards in my opinion. Henderson being out was exacerbated by the fact Mane was out. Had Mane been fit i don't think we would have noticed the miss of Henderson as much

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Tricky one. I think we will see more of it because i see us buying a top class wide man or striker or both. You cant drop Mane when fit and he wont drop Firmino and rightly so. So to get everyone on the pitch he will have to play Coutinho a bit deeper. Given Lallana will be in the midfield three it leaves one spot for Henderson, Can and any other midfielder we buy. But i go back to us playing 50+ games next year. There will be plenty of opportunity for game time and i think playing Coutinho as an 8 in the games against the defensive wall gets another attack minded player in the line up


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

I think this boils down to what we had squad wise. Had we had bigger and better i think we would have stuck with plan A. Has he learnt? i'm sure he has. I have every faith in the gaffer. My only slight criticism of the man is his speed to change from the bench. Unless there's an injury i reckon you count on one hand the number of times we've made a sub before the 67th minute


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Yes but not as main man. If we can keep him happy as a squad member and not guaranteed starter then we keep him. He is world class but made of glass. Next year there will be laods of games and he can win us points. To replace him would cost a fortune. Stick an arm round him, keep him happy, keep him motivated


7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

For the club its great and moves us back to where we belong as i mentioned earlier. As a fan its ok for this season but it does become a bit repetitive in my opinion. I have enjoyed the Europa league for seeing different teams and nationalities. That said it will be nice to see us up against a Bayern or Barcelona in the group stage which is inevitable given our seeding in pot 3. I'd give CL up next season for a league win though!!


Overall i reckon the season would be marked as B+. Would have been better with a domestic cup victory. Expectations of next season? Break the 80 point mark and see where that leads us. Win a domestic Cup. QF of Champions league

[redk84]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

I'll take it. A step in the right direction.
Ultimately I want us to be competing for the league and the CL every season just as we've only briefly done in the last 20-odd years when Rafa was here

Klopp came with a lot of expectation and I think it was very important that we had some kind of progress this season. 76 points pleases me a lot more than the 4th place tag that comes with it.....that's +16 points on last season and we do even half that again we could be champions next year

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

We have got to put ourselves in a position that he is not relied upon so much. yeah it's great the impact he has had, and that there is no AFCON next year......but if we get another player or two in the same mould it can only be good for us. Without going too far down the line of what we need in terms of transfers.....Mane has been an excellent addition to this team and another like him would be great for us.

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Yes we would have. Hendo, Gini, Lallana was very good for too short a time.....with our struggles at home he would have definitely come in handy. This is not a slight on Can, who I think has gone from strength to strength as the season wore on but Hendo is just that little bit quicker in thought and process on the field.

There's also the resource klopp would have had to switch things round a bit. We were limited with what we could do because of who he had available in that midfield a lot of the time.

Some bruised foot that.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

Shouldn't see why not. Lallana worked there in the midfield 3 and didn't take much of a leap to figure Coutinho would be good there.

If anything it's another option, and Klopp loves to have a fluid system whereby everybody can do everything so maybe that can be a bit more of a tactic we use next season whereby Coutinho and Lallana switch in-game or even Gini (I really thought he would be used as part of the front three this season actually)

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

We've had almost 2 seasons with Klopp and the first season-ish we set up quite differently to this season just gone. With the expected business to be done who knows how we will set up for next season.....I don't think klopp is afraid to switch things up in terms of personnel and their roles within the team but from what I've seen he does have a preferred system to use and tries not to sway from it. And I expect the same however we set up this August.

What I am hoping is that he has seen and learnt from how our players react to certain other players being missing.....and the impact it has on his systems. So you say for example the diamond worked so well against West Ham, maybe we'll see that being thrown out there more next season straight after a CL away and he decides to bench a couple players he'd usually start for a league game for example. The more experience the better and I do think that he's the type of coach that will evolve with his players. He strikes me as somebody that feeds off his players so will want to find a way to play with who he has at his disposal and the resulting system will be more of a give/take process as opposed to :
This is how we play
Go do it this way

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

My opinion has always been yes. He is so intelligent in the final 3rd, can make something out of nothing and even if what he wants doesn't always come off (to score, always to score) he'll still open up space or opportunity for somebody else to do just that (ask the bitters). I know he gets injured a lot but he was available for quite a few games this year but not used, next year we'll have more.

Non-football reasons may mean he has to go....if we have to free up wages for new signings for example. I hate that we even have to think like that to be honest but it is what it is if that's the case.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

It's fucking great.

I sat there in the stands last time when we were playing Real Madrid and people were taking pics of their players taking throw ins and clapping and joking..

fuck that

Do something, everything we can to do well in the competition. Sing for our team and intimidate whoever the fuck we're playing if you're there.
I don't want this treated as a fucking novelty which it felt like it was at times the last time we were in it...

It's great to be in it, but we have a pedigree in this competition which means we have to act the part. I'm sure Klopp will have the lads heads rights.

In the CL and the league. 80 days to go....

[Bergersrightwingviews]

Firstly, thanks for a great opening post, Rhi.

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?


At the start of the season I said I would be delighted with top 4. That's what we got so I am pleased notwithstanding the drop off in January.

2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?


Fantastic to have no ACN. We need another Mane type player to (i) play with him most games (ii) give us some pace when he isn't available. For that reason Salah is not ideal (as he will be away at ACN too) but he is the right kind of player and we should get him anyway. I would prefer that he were Estonian or something, but what are you going to do? 

3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.


Probably not. I think our problems were in defence and not in midfield. In my opinion Henderson simply is not good enough to be a starting midfielder at a club with our ambitions (i.e. challenging for the league and champions league on a regular basis). As I have banged on about at length - he is our best CM and that is a huge problem. Our best CM needs to be a lot better.

My main gripe with him is his touch and short passing. He does not have to ability to control the tempo of a game. He does very good defensive work and can hit a good long pass, but he does not move the ball quick enough on the break and he is not good enough in tight areas when we play against sides that sit deep. he should be first sub. 

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

I really like him in midfield. I would play him there at home most of the time and away to all the weaker sides. Against the strongest side I would put him back in the front 3.

5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

I think the diamond and 4-2-3-1 should be options for us as well.

6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

No. Every time he comes back and does well as he has done we get excited. The next injury won't be too far away. If he is happy to stick around and be a back-up when available I could warm to that idea, but we should get a new "best striker" in as well.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Really fucking good.

Other thoughts

We have the best manager we could possibly hope to have for a club in our position.

Klopp is also the best fit for us specifically.

We have CL football and the money that comes along with that (subject to getting through qualifier). FSG need to make this count.

In my view we need a top class player in every part of the spine. Top CF (though a top wide forward would work too), top CM and top CB. Ideally I want a top GK too, but they are few and far between and we can probably get by with Mignolet.

We also need a starting LB who will give us more going forwards.

[Jookie]

1. Given how well we started the season, is a 4th placed finish a disappointment, or still an achievement in itself, as well as a stepping stone to better things?

4th is a good reflection of our performances throughout the season. CL football is what we needed going into Klopp's 2nd full season and it's what we've achieved. It feels like we are still moving forward under Klopp and momentum is so important in football. I dread to think what some supporters would have been like if we'd let 4th slip.


2. How good is it that there is no ACN next year? And what do we do if Sadio Mane gets another injury?

Firstly Mane has been brilliant this season. His pace scares the life out of teams and gives us a different dimension. His movement off the right hand side is so good too. He's not your typical winger in that he can do the things you expect from a typical pacy winger but he offers so much more goal threat due to his movement and finishing ability.

No ACN is a good thing. However, we need an alternative when Mane is not fit. I don't buy the argument that a Mane back up cost us loads this season. If we could have a back up to Mane, that had his skill set and was willing to sit on the bench for us, then that would have been great. The reality is that finding a player as good as Mane who is willing to be back up is going to be difficult. I think the bigger criticism that can be aimed at Klopp is not the lack of signings in January but that it we didn't shift from the 4-3-3 formation very often during that tough January/February period. Particularly when our 2 back up options for Mane (Sturridge and Origi) are not like for like replacements and would rather play in a 2 upfront.

I'd definitely buy another wide player this summer. One that has pace and is also a goal threat. I've thought Salah would be a great option so pleasantly surprised to see us linked with him. Anyone we bring in needs to be able to compete with Mane, Firmino, Coutinho etc.. for a place in the starting line up. We shouldn't be buying anyone just to come in as Mane's back up.


3. If Jordan Henderson hadn't have been injured for so much of the season, would we have finished higher up in the table? I think we turn the ball over so much better with Hendo as a 6 instead of Can, and feel we struggled with this in the last couple of months.

Maybe. I think we could have finished 3rd. We did pretty well in his absence from end of February onwards. If we'd have had Henderson, Mane and a Lovren/Matip partnership in place from the January 1st onwards then I think we could have pushed Spurs for 2nd. Talk that we could have had a title challenge if we'd bought a Mane replacement in January is fanciful. From after the City home game (19th game) we'd have had to only dropped 7 points in the 2nd half the season to match Chelsea's points total. That doesn't seem realistic to me.

Despite saying that I'm looking forward to having Henderson back next season. He was great up until January. Klopp does have a conundrum though. Emre Can was arguably are best player in the last 3 months of the season. If both are fit, who is his main man in that pivotal No.6 position? Personally I'd go with Henderson...just!

People will point to Mane's absence in January as a key turning point. It was but I think the absence of a settled CB pairing during that period was more detrimental. We conceded a lot of goals in the games against Sunderland, Hull, Swansea, Leicester in January/February. We saw at the end of the season what a settled defence can give you. When you are not playing well you need to be able to rely on your defence. We hit a bad spell in January/February and our defensive side of things didn't hold up. That needs to change next season if we are going to push on.

4. Coutinho as an 8? It worked for the last 2 games of the season, and Klopp has hinted we'll see more of it next season. But will we? Really?

At home against teams who defend deep against us I can see Coutinho playing deeper more often. I don't see it as a regular thing away from home. Unless we are moving away from 4-3-3 as the preferred formation. If we start going 4-4-2 (diamond) then I can see Coutinho playing CM more often away from home. If we go for the diamond it raises couple of questions. Firstly, how do you ensure your full backs don't get exposed? Secondly, where does Mane fit in that formation?


5. On that note, did Klopp learn a valuable lesson a little bit late in the season, that with Sadio's absence, we need to look at different formations? The diamond seems to have worked, though admittedly with a very small pool of data to corroborate that. Will Klopp be more flexible in his approach next season? Does he need to be?

Yes to both. With a wider pool of players he trusts to pick from I think we could see more flexibility in our approach to certain games. I wonder what Klopp has learnt over the last 18 months in terms of dealing with the bottom 12 teams in the league. I think we may see more games with 2 up top next season. Get a solid defence, have physicality in midfield, pace/creativity out wide and 2 genuine goal threats upfront. It's a tried and trusted formula for winning the premier league over the last 20 odd years.


6. Is Daniel Sturridge worth another season?

Yes and No.

If we can keep him, he's happy to stay and it doesn't affect any other purchases then I'd be very happy to keep him. He'd be an option in the squad.

I don't see him as a starter anymore. He's an absolutely brilliant player. But I don't think he's one you build your team around anymore. If he'd have stayed fit in 2014/15 and beyond I think we'd now see him as one of the best players in the Premier League, maybe even Europe. It's sad to say but I think that time has passed and I don't see him consistently hitting the very highest levels.

I just think it might be best for both Daniel and the club to part ways. The risk is that he stays fit and you've binned off a 20 goal striker for a fraction of his worth. I expect it's a chance the club will be willing to take.

7. How fucking good is it going to be to play in the Champion's League again?

Hopefully we can get through the qualifiers and make the group stage. The group stage and, hopefully beyond, will be brilliant. The last time we were in the competition it was a farce. Not just Rodgers team selections or our performances. The way we treated Real Madrid as a fanbase was shite. We rolled the red carpet out for them like we were grateful to play them. I don't want to see any of that shite next season. We are at our best as a club when we are gnarly and in your faces. Don't give the opposition an inch and back our lads all the way. We are at our best as a club when we display this attitude in European competition. The folklore of this club is built on European nights. I'm looking forward to us adding to the rich history with some great European nights in 2017/18.