Topic: Football Has Let Us Down

[Anyone...]

Football was once a sport.

Now it's a business.

[mickfinney]

to me footballs been ruined by a number of things, firstly the end of standing a lot of day trippers i see nowadays wouldn't have dreamed of going on the terraces leaving it free for the more die hard fans. theres something about standing shoulder to shoulder, singing your head off and talking football with people are there week after week and know what they're talking about that helps educate you in the true ways of football.
    secondly money, i think it's always been a business of sorts but now it's gone stupid succsess brings money therefore you need the best players and start bidding for them at stupid prices and wages this cost gets passed on to us. if your profit is at a percentage the higher the turnover the more you make imo the only way to stop this is a salary cap but like 24 7 said earlier this won't happen while the people at the top are lining their own pockets.
    thirdly the media, i get fed up with arguing with freinds that have been to about 2 games in their lives who think they're experts because they watch sky and read the papers twisted version of things. you get a much wider perspective of a game when your there not just the bit in the camera lens and 20 years ago this was the only way to see it

  great post garstonite   

[Alf]

Are there morals in football?

No IMO but there are no morals in business which is what football has become since the inception of the Premier League and the Champions League. The disappointing thing is that people idolise players who earn more in a day than they do in a year. Supporters put their work and family lives on hold to follow a team who's players and owners couldn't give a Fuck about them. Is there any better example of brand loyalty than in football at the moment ? If you went a shop and didn't get good customer service then you'd take your business elsewhere you'd never consider doing that with your football club.

[shanklyboy]

I watched 60 mins with Mark Wright on Lfctv last night.
He was aked if players get paid too much these days and he agreed that they do.
He went on to say that when he was at Southampton in 1987 he was an England International and his weekly wage was £250 per week. He was paid exactly the same amount as a fee for playing for his country.

I believe the current fee for Internationals is about £5,000 which the players have agreed to pay into a charitable foundation.....all very nice!
The point is.....20 years ago the fee was equal to Mark Wrights weekly wage.
A 20 man England squad ALL donating their fees to charity and it still doesn't come close to John Terry's reported £130,000 per week.

[E2K]

Superb post, Garstonite, thanks.

I agree with everything you say, and if I could, I’d like to refer back to a post of mine from January which more or less sums up a lot of my feelings towards modern football: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=207123.msg3779809#msg3779809

I grew up watching football in the late eighties and I consider myself to be part of the last generation who will ever see football the way it should be (actually people nowadays can experience it too – on youtube). Sky came on the scene in the early nineties, and any supporter coming to the game since then has seen a very different version of football than the one that I fell in love with.

Don’t get me wrong, we all know that it wasn’t perfect back then. Clearly - hooliganism was running rampant, the police and politicians seemingly taking great glee in punishing and intimidating the ordinary fan, unsafe grounds, rubbish pitches, the European ban and the tragedies of Hillsborough, Heysel and Bradford. But the stands and terraces were always full of passionate supporters, and the players were honest. Perhaps most importantly of all, the top teams were more or less equal, especially financially (Liverpool, Man. Utd, Tottenham, Arsenal and Everton to name five were all able to spend big for the time). In addition, the likes of Coventry, Notts. Forest, Luton, Sheffield Wednesday and (unfortunately) Wimbledon all won silverware during my formative years of watching the sport. Crystal Palace came within minutes of doing the same. In other words, on the pitch, football was healthy.

I reckon the reason things have changed is that, back then, the clubs relied most heavily on their attendances. There were no major TV deals or flotations on the stock exchange. As a result, there was less money floating around to tempt clubs into ridiculous transfer fees and player wages, and therefore less expense passed on to the supporters. The game in general was just less money-obsessed, especially in England. For example, English football never entered into the grotesque world of big money transfers back then. What was the record fee for an English club back in 1990, £2.9m for Tony Cottee? To give some perspective, Juventus broke the world record by paying £12m for Roberto Baggio around the same time. By 1993, when Lentini moved to Milan for £13m, I believe Roy Keane was the top English mark at £3.75m.

So what happened? Well it probably isn’t a coincidence that English transfer fees and wages began to spiral upwards drastically once Sky’s influence began taking root. It went from £3.75m for Keane to £5.5m for Sutton to £7m for Cole to £8.5m for Collymore, and on and on until we started getting Veron for £28m and Ferdinand for £30m (both signed by the first English club to float on the stock market, a sign of the times). United bought Ferdinand in 2002. A short eight years earlier, the record for an English club had stood at £3.75m and Blackburn (pre-Sutton) were being accused of trying to buy the title after assembling a team in which the major stars (Flowers, Batty, Shearer) cost between £2m - £4m. How the fuck did it change so quickly?

In my view (and a lot of people’s), when money enters into sport in such quantities, then corruption is sure to follow. It could be actively trying to screw its only true lifeblood (the customer, the fan) or it could simply be standing idly by and watching it happen without lifting a finger, but English football changed for the absolute worst when Sky got their greasy little paws on it. Every club wanted a slice of the glory, so they began over-spending, living beyond their means. And while Leeds are the only real casualty of that, there’s no denying that we as supporters have paid a heavy price too across the board, whether it’s the price of tickets and merchandise or having to travel for miles on a Saturday evening or a Sunday morning just to suit Sky.

Then into all of this came the agents, and suddenly player wages went bonkers. There is no earthly reason that John Terry or Steven Gerrard should be earning over £100 grand a week other than the fact that it’s there and it’s the going rate. There is no other justification for it. Football players should not be earning that much money, end of story. I couldn’t care less how much money there is in the game. If a footballer like Terry or Gerrard earned even £20,000 a week, they would clear a million in a year. In other words, earning just a fraction of what they are paid at the moment, they would still be millionaires in a year, something all of us (and Del Boy) could only ever dream of.

We scrimp and save so that we can afford a house, a car, and they earn so much that they can never spend it all. And you know what? Good luck to them, we’d all do it if we could. But why should the craziness of their wages be passed on to us? Transfer fees are one thing, but it is my belief that the explosion in player wages are chiefly responsible for the price of tickets going up and up and up. How about if Fernando Torres or Steven Gerrard, or Cristiano Ronaldo or Lionel Messi or whoever, took £30,000 a week across the board? Still obscene money for what they do, but how much would their clubs save annually? Enough to lower ticket prices? Damn straight. Then you could have more faith in Ronaldo’s assertion that his prospective move to Madrid is for footballing reasons alone.

But it would be a crazy world where that would happen. And the likes of Hicks and Gillett would probably pocket it anyway. But a fella can dream…..

The bottom line for me is that there’s very little to love about the game anymore. Then Fernando Torres skips past three defenders and buries it, and you suddenly think that all is well. It isn’t. When I was growing up, Liverpool were the best team in the world, Man. Utd our greatest rivals and Wimbledon a constant thorn in our side. Twenty-odd years later, you’ve got AFC Liverpool, AFC Wimbledon and FC United starting at the bottom of the barrel and trying to work their way up, founded in response to a sport that is drifting further and further away from the one thing it needs more than anything – the supporters. A love of the game is what drives them on, and I think there’s a lesson to be learned there. Only trouble is, the only ones who’ll listen to it are the ones who already know.

[The Bill Hicks Appreciation Society]

excellent post E2K, echo my feelings on the modern game exactly. sorry I missed it first time.

[24/7]

Only trouble is, the only ones who’ll listen to it are the ones who already know.

Excellent response that, E2K. I wish the last line of it was not so close to reality

[Shanks1965]

All true but in the end its just words because neither me nor you are prepared to say "fuck it, its too expensive, I'm not going any more".  Are we?

It drives me nuts to think of the fans being screwed to pay more and more all the time while the greedy arsed players (yes our players the ones we supposedly idolise) take more and more out of the club and why? Becasue they can. They are worth it, they deserve it, its short careeer. MY ARSE.

It used to be s short career when they were earning £40 a game plus win bonuses (as St John did in his last season) when the average working man was earning about a fiver for a solid 40 hours. But today, some these players could retire after one season and live comfortably but the truth is they dont want to live comfortably, they want a lavish life style and they think they are entitled to that for life because they play football for a few years. Paying any player the sort of money our captain earns is a fucking disgrace. Why do you think they give the money from testimonials to charity these days? Because they dont fuckin well need it thats why!

So yes its wrong that your brother cant afford to go to the game anymore after being a fan that followed the team home and away but we can all talk about how wrong it is as much as we want. Until we use the power we have nothing will change.

[andeeeee]

Football was once a sport.

Now it's a business.

it used tobe a passion now its a fashion

[Death]

Spurs fan in peace. 

An excellent post that has stirred thoughtful and heartfelt responses and I can only add my agreement to the sentiments already aired.

Perhaps its time for supporters of all clubs to ask “Can we have our ball back please?”
It was our ball to start off with after all.

[walshys_mullet]

Tell you what going the game on a saturday, buying a squelchy pie (before the hiking prices came in at Anfield) and getting a program for 50p before sitting the bar of the kop with your old fella holding onto you as the crowd swayed forward and back and watching eleven honest redmen do their damndest against someone like Luton Town or Coventry City or Liecester City at 3 o'clock on a saturday afternoon before going home for your tea on your dads shoulders is the stuff off legend and sadly one i will struggle to repeat with my son if i ever have one.

[24/7]

Spurs fan in peace. 

An excellent post that has stirred thoughtful and heartfelt responses and I can only add my agreement to the sentiments already aired.

Perhaps its time for supporters of all clubs to ask “Can we have our ball back please?”
It was our ball to start off with after all.

Nice first post mate - and the missus had a good giggle at the "Can we have our ball back please?" remark. Nice one

[Rosti]

I have to wonder how long it'll be before fans drop the Premier League altogether. It's ceasing to become a sport and instead is just bowing down to money grabbing and capitalism.

Manchester City are starting to take things into a really worrying direction. With Chelsea it was bad enough, but the fact is that I can see them quite easily winning the Premiership next season if they pump a load of cash in over the various transfer windows. Most likely Liverpool or Arsenal (though I'd hate for it to be us) will be pushed out of the top 4 and probably won't return for a while. We're going to reach a point soon where history, supporters, youth academies and the like aren't going to mean shit. I'll merely come down to who has the owners wealthy and willing enough to put in more money than the rest of the competition.
We might as well cut the shit, hold a bidding contest in August for who actually wins the Premiership, and then let the rest of the season be exhibition matches.

It's hard to argue in terms of quality that the Premiership isn't the best league in the world. But in terms of the fans? In terms of the heart and soul of the football? What heart and soul? The beautiful game is being reduced to little else than a massive corporate spectacle. I'm a University student. There's no fucking way I can afford tickets to go see Premiership games on even a monthly basis. Every year my Dad debates on whether it's worth the while to renew his season ticket because he finds it hard to justify the expense. Soon Premiership football will be for the extremely wealthy, or those who have corporate seats. For the majority of the fans it'll just be a luxury we can't afford.

And what really pisses me off is that I keep reading about this 39th game idea still being alive? Why? It's the most fucking retarded idea in the history of football. They don't need more globalisation. They don't need more money. Why the hell would the compromise the very nature and fairness of the league just for that?
In a close season, where the top two teams are fighting for the title and are separated by a point, how the fuck is it fair if one draws another team in the top 4 as a 39th game, and the other draws Stoke. You'll basically be adding a minor lottery to the result of the season. The only way it could possibly be even remotely fair would be if 1st played 2nd, 3rd played 4th and so on. We have teams play every other team twice because it's a completely fair system. They shouldn't fuck with that.
And does football really merit globalisation anyway? Football is an old and well-known sport. People in American or Thailand aren't going to have not heard of it. That isn't why they don't have strong leagues over there. They don't have strong leagues because the general population over there don't care about the sport. And because the people that do follow European clubs anyway.
Bringing the Premiership to America would do two things. It'd raise support over there for Premiership teams, bringing more money into an already overly wealthy system, and it'd completely destroy the already struggling Major League Soccer over there. Every single American I've ever met, online or otherwise, who follows football to a reasonable extent supports a European club. Usually one of the big four in England. The MLS is struggling not just because people over there don't give a shit about football, but because those that do don't support local teams, but instead foreign ones.

I've stopped going to Liverpool games on a regular basis, because I can't afford it. Instead I now tend to go to Burscough matches instead (though I'll always go to see Liverpool if I can, and if not I'll watch it on TV or listen on Radio City). They're a team that actually need the money, and they're not trying to fleece me for every penny they can get either.

The FA can't realistically impose a wage cap on English clubs. If they did, the players would just fuck off overseas to leagues without the wage caps. It'd seem money-grabbing in a way, but at the end of the day you're not going to work for someone if someone else is offering you twice the amount for the exact same job. With the credit crunch and all that stuff, I really can't see the Premiership continuing the way it is without coming to a massive halt at some point. Prices for tickets can't rise so far above inflation forever. Sooner or later the fans will revolt en masse, and it'll either implode on itself or FIFA will have to place some sort of wage cap on all leagues to keep things under control.

I'm on the waiting list for an Anfield season ticket. At this rate I'm going to need to sell some organs or something to pay for it when I finally get one.

[24/7]

We might as well cut the shit, hold a bidding contest in August for who actually wins the Premier League, and then let the rest of the season be exhibition matches.

My fave line in another great post

[woof]

Manchester City won't be the last of the capitalistic ventures. Soon, every EPL team will be owned by someone obscenely wealthy

[free savannah]

Great post, Garstonite. Completely agree with the whole thing. Football used to be everybody's sport. Not anymore...I have to say I'm also beginning to lose interest since the money concentrated in just a few clubs has made a huge gap with the rest of the league, making it too predictable and less exciting to watch...even the champions league is starting to get boring too...

I think FIFA needs to address this issue as soon as possible, perhaps thru wage cap and also transfer cap.

[Mad Men]

I totally understand and in agreement..well written as you touched on the same sentiments I feel..

[cal_liverpoolfc]

great piece of writing, first time ive read it. well said mate.

[Barrowboy]

........... what the fuck happened was you finally broke the chain INABITSKI..... Its easier once you do that you see. When I was a teenager I couldn't dream there would ever be a time when I wouldn't be going the match every weekend but it happens to a lot of people eventually, you make a break from it and its never quite the same again, then you get nostalgic about it not being the same and prices are not the same etc etc until you stay away almost every week. This is not a good thread for regular match-goers to be honest as some will see it as negative and depressing, especially those who are busting a gut to just get the match and follow the reds but fuck me, the cost these days is ridiculous and something has to give. Prices just cannot compare with wages imo, if the average wage had increased in line with ticket and transport costs then fair enough but it seems that working class folk are just priced out of the game these days. Garstonite summed it up for a lot of people, not just 'arl arses' and its a fucking sad state of affairs. People who are considering making the 'break' beware, once you do it will never be quite the same again and you may just find yourself posting in a thead like this!

[yafoy]

IMO...

LFC & "kick out racism" - kick out (UE)FAscists Too?

Recent quotes :

Steven Gerrard ; "Liverpool's a family. The players, staff at the club and you – the fans – are all part of that family. It doesn't matter what colour your skin is or where you come from. You're always welcome in the Liverpool family".
 
Rafael Benitez ; "Today's game marks the beginning of the two weeks of action to highlight this year's Kick Racism out of Football campaign.As always, everyone at Liverpool Football Club is glad to play their part.It is important to send out the right message regarding racism in football and society in general.  Quite simply, there is no place for racism anywhere.In my experience, football is a good example of how everybody can work together regardless of nationality or race. The message doesn't just apply to football though. We have to respect one another equally in all walks of life."

BOYCOTT v (UE)FAscists (fans or police)
 
kick racism out action fortnight? = kick what out of footy? how about kicking out UEFA & all these tinpot dictators that RUIN one of the most important parts of our lives ; You'll Never walk alone! - Well, I might....AT the risk of getting a "RAWK ban", I am starting a one-man BOYCOTT of the game at(letico) MAD-rid...

I want to declare that i am ANti-(UE)fa-scist - and I want ANYONE to stand up against the mentality that spoils this forum, the cowardice of a mass mentality in this "fast-food lifestyle" - I dont accept these FASCISTS at UEFA or in the stadium, on the forum or in life in general to have any say about y-oUR REDS....The Recent "mass-debate" over (Atletico) MADrid , and UEFA and the "fascist chants" to my mind is FAR from over for US, REDS, who grew up with a Social-Liberal mentality..the sort of mentality that made me sure that the REDS were my team when Shanks was manager, the witty, rebellious slightly arrigant jaunt that said whio we are & what we stand for an no-one is better...UEFA changed their decision, but the real culprits wont get punished, since those (according to my contacts) who chanted against black players or made NAZI salutes could have got to the game had its venue been changed and THE POLICE - yet again who wade into a crowd containing men, old men, kids & women ESCAPE without even one policeman being charged with violence..YET AGAIN

Since 9/11 - (especially) the (human)rights of the individual have been eroded in deference to the bimbo-barbi & ken - bling, money-at-all costs, mentality of wa*king all over the rest of the people to get yourself-ishness on top...and I NOW boycott THIS in a one-Fan PROTEST because REAL fascists (fans AND police ) rarely get punished...nearly 20 years after HILLSOROUGH the police still dont get punished...

Useless Egotistical FAscists
 
Isnt that  what "UEFA" really means?  WHATEVER the final decision after Atletico's appeal, the badly thought out(do they think?) reaction to the "problem" at the recent CL A.MADrid v MARSeilles game..the "elite" at "UEFA" have once again (especially Gaillard) shown their complete disregard and contempt for the situation of the (extra)ordinary REDS supporter. How many times have we been slandered by UEFA, (post Athens for example) WE boycotted the away game @ Beşiktaş - after complaints I made to UEFA & the stadium about REDS "being put in cages" earlier this year.

JOIN the UNION?

The main points to emphasise are that:
 
IF we had a strong SUPPORTERS UNION/shared ownership of LFC - a strong voice would fight for the (real) SUPPORTERS rights, which are the LAST thing considered by footy-biz corporates & UEFA etc etc..
- The fascists @ any club need weeding out by US..the supporters - (see the report from Carole from Marseilles, below)
- THE UNIFORMED fascists (and any of us travelling supporters know this is not an isolated incident ARE NOT getting punished with extreme examples @ MADrid & Hillsborough as long as I can remember...(its the same outside of footy...too!)
- WE the non-rich supporters loyal to our club who spend almost all our disposable income on LFC suffer - remember Uefa's Gaillard saying scandalous LIES about US last year after Athens?...
 
a REAL UNION would / could go a LONG way to really representing US...and IF it was strong..we might get the game back in OUR hands, with this financial CRISIS there may never be a better time to invest in Y-OUR CLUB>>??
 
the FINANCIAL CRISIS & SHARING Y=OUR CLUB
 
At a time of uncertainly any RED who has a bank deposit or investment to withdraw could DO SO NOW and re-INVEST in Y-OUR CLUB, I am sure the Yanks could and Would be forced to accept at LEAST a shared ownership and the banks are too weak to resist a cleverly structed "Supporters SHARE/BUY out plan"...(for more info on how this could work contact S.O.S or ShareLFC or ChriS@eured-san.net) ...IF U like myself are a TRUE RED have devoted your spare time (and disposable income) to y-our club then its LOGICAL to INVEST in it, and INFLUENCE y-our FUTURE???
NOW!

 (no) Tickets ...& "International Break...a leg"

I am sure I will be accused of taking the "easy way out" ,, because when this fiaso about MADrid started I had already booked my RYanAir flights to MADrid (as I had been to Marseilles for the 3rd time via Eindhoven with them) - thanks to a typical foul-up between my local (official) LFC supporters club & LFC.TO I had somehow "lost" my attendance "history" although I have been to most of the Champions League games since Graz away (04/05) ..!!! ...so when (UE)FA-scists started discussing changes in the venue I stopped chasing the LFC TO because I cant afford extra costs (although my ticket application for A. MADrid away had been registered against my membership on october 1st 08 ), mind you I cant get anyone on the phone at LFC anyway!- usually I travel anyway (sometimse its more expensive to get to home games than away games in Europe or southern venues in UK ,  I get a spare or a mate with a season ticket gets one, or via one of the benelux based fan clubs or via our ("EuRED") network contacts.Doesnt it just expose the ridiculous situation @LFC that despite my (REAL) loyalty I was offered FIVE tickets in Marseilles but cant get ONE ticket for MADrid via "direct" means?
 
"OURKid" Babel & Mascherano all possibly injured before vital games (V Wigan @ home, and A.MADrid & Chelsea away ) I just started training with a local Dutch club and the lads there find it hard to believe that I HATE our LIVERPOOL players playing for the NATIONAL teams - I explained my Celtcs ancestry but most of all that 15 players are away with 12 national teams and nationalism is an enemy of the people, and footy...and they dont even pay compensation for our players getting injured playing for "them"...(suggestions for "FiFA" welcome? <smile>) ................I plan to take an European RED team of supporters to the "antiFa" (how about anti-UEFA?) tournament near Bologna in JULY 09...so my training schedule has started as I intend to lead out one of those teams next year..(insha'allah) ...as I am "middle aged" (mind you, that infers that I will live to be about 100!) and my legs wont carry me many years longer, so I will go training with the lads on wednesday instead of MADrid, even if that means I lose my flight costs, as I can work of my frustrations better and safer than in MADrid, (unless we can play a game v the MADrid police, Fascist fans & UEFA "officials")
 
CU next time?
YNWA/J4t96
 
Caroles Report>sent by email to me 10 days ago (after A.MADrid v OM)
we met Carole @ o'malleys (marseille) last month, lass born there but spent 12 years in Dublin, (her accent is a joy to hear ;-) ......)
> To: eured@live.com
> Subject: FW: News from Mars(eille)-forward to LFC/RAWK?
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: carole > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 13:28:44 +0000 (GMT)
> To: chris> Subject: News from Mars(eille)
>
> How ya, hope u're well,
> Just been back from Madrid so I thought I'd better warn u about what you might expect yourselves when u go there.
> U might have seen the pictures of that bastard guardia civil charging us on  the telly, but it's not the half of what really went on.
> - getting into the stadium took ages...and there were only 1400 of us! they are very badly organised and their stewards very aggressive. They nearly
> started the beating then, pushing people queuing on one side then on the  other. Even looking at them is seen as provocation, and we felt right away
> they were ready to go...you know marseille supporters, lot of men and women of all ages like myself and my godmother, and you could see that they
> didn't give a f**k if a 60something woman was to take a few strokes.- then they searched us and pushed us away when they were done like animals.
> -once inside we started our usual singing and everything was going fine till they asked the Ultras to remove one of their banner because they
> didn't approve of the Jolly Roger on it... the thing is thatwe could see the same skull and crossbones drawn on one of their supporters'banderole.
> Of course the Ultras refused and then the guardia civil just went in without any warning and started bashing people to get to it and remove it.
> The truth is that they were only waiting for an excuse.
> - Reaction of the spanish supporters when they see that??... they start  clapping.
> - A few minutes later second charging of the police... for what??? I do not know. Our security chief comes up in the stand to try and calm everybody
> down... he finds himself on the ground at the bottom of the stairs and the  only reason he didn't get hit is because one of our steward went between
> him and the coppers and took the blow for him. And that's an official  representative of Marseille football club, with his badge on!!!  the same
> man who had been to meetings with the spanish authorities a couple of days before.
> Our president had to come up for things to settle.
> - During the game, monkeys cries towards our black players, fascist  salutes, permanent abuses from the spanish coach towards our players on the
> field... just unreal.  At the end of the game a sickening "zieg heil" could be heard rising from a  part of the spanish stand.
> - But it wasn't over yet! when we get out of the grounds there were many  madrid supporters a few yards from our buses. we are made to understand
> that we should get back into our buses pretty quickly by the police... but  it wasn't quick enough, the robocops start charging us again, the last ones
> to get into the coaches feel the truncheon on their backs.
> They even went inside one of the coaches, the Dodgers, a real family  orientated supporters club, and their representative, a 73 years old woman
> gets hit!!!
>
> All that to tell you the rumour has it the spaniards are very nervous about  you lot coming over and they needed a bit of practice before welcoming you.
> In the city though (where we were all day) nobody had any problems, nobody caused any problems ... that's why the attitude of the guardia civil is
> unbelievable. We really hadn't a clue what we were in for before arriving  near the grounds. Franco may be dead but his sons are still alive and
> kicking (litterally!!!)
>
> And of course we lost against them b*****ds! Well done for your victory,  you're practically through and I'm delighted for you.
> Enjoy your trip to madrid, the whole of marseille will be right behind you > when you play them. I hope your Gerrard and your Torres give them a good
> lesson in football. Pity we couldn't do it.
>
> Bye bye from Marseille. good luck.
>
> Carole.

[Hinesy]

my head hurts.

[stewo4lfc]

Far roo much money in the game, takes away the enjoyment.

[stewo4lfc]

my head hurts.

been butting walls again 

[stewo4lfc]

Football was once a sport.

Now it's a business.

Agree.

[Anfieldite]

Football was once a sport.

Now it's a business.

It is mate, and we're reaping the rewards

[Masch20]

Great post, and i completely agree with it

[Shanks1965]

I'll stop watching us one day and switch to AFC Liverpool. This game has changed and continues to so and some changes are for ever... not for better.

At least though we have throw backs like Jamie Carrgher to remind us what footballers are supposed to be like.