Author Topic: Liverpool 1 - 1 Norwich (Read 163969 times)

stockdam · « **Reply #1920 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:36:26 pm »

Quote from: RedRush on September 21, 2015, 02:06:24 pm

And Mignolet... most fans correctly identified this as one of the major problem positions that needed the most attention, but sadly nothing was done over the summer. Every goalkeeper we've been up against has looked better than Mignolet, and Ruddy was no different - he was excellent on the day.

Simon is a good keeper but he is just not in the same league as De Gea etc. who can "win" games through a string of excellent saves. Mignolet comes off with some great saves but just not enough. Ruddy showed him how to dominate his area; if a keeper comes out to punch then the ball should travel well outside of the area, preferably to the side-line.

It's just not him though. I expect at least one mistake per game at free kicks or corners that result in soft goals. We huff and puff to create goals and then we give away simple sloppy goals that undoes all of the hard work. In general my view is that we give away more simple goals than anyone we play (that's probably totally wrong though).

RedRush · « **Reply #1921 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:36:32 pm »

Quote from: stockdam on September 21, 2015, 02:30:42 pm

Agree it's not good to pick on individual mistakes but instead look at the bigger picture. Running in on Norwich's goal you could see that he was looking around for support and I didn't feel that he was confident. He could have passed early to Ings but in the end the defender got too close to Danny and so Coutinho had no choice but to shoot. For me he doesn't finish enough of his chances and at times makes poor decisions. However when he does score they tend to be beauts. If he can sort out his finishing then he'll become a great player.

Think it is a confidence thing too, in that right now he has more confidence in himself than the team. I agree totally that he will be a great player one day. Just hope it's with us!

Quote from: stockdam on September 21, 2015, 02:36:26 pm

Simon is a good keeper but he is just not in the same league as De Gea etc. who can "win" games through a string of excellent saves. Mignolet comes off with some great saves but just not enough. Ruddy showed him how to dominate his area; if a keeper comes out to punch then the ball should travel well outside of the area, preferably to the side-line.

Mignolet would make a good 2nd keeper for a club like Liverpool. Ruddy showed good distribution too, which Mignolet doesn't have.

Quote from: stockdam on September 21, 2015, 02:36:26 pm

In general my view is that we give away more simple goals than anyone we play (that's probably totally wrong though).

You may be right, it certainly feels that way currently, although I haven't seen much of other teams to judge.

stockdam · « **Reply #1922 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:43:49 pm »

Quote from: RedRush on September 21, 2015, 02:36:32 pm

Mignolet would make a good 2nd keeper for a club like Liverpool. Ruddy showed good distribution too, which Mignolet doesn't have.

i expect a top keeper to dominate his area. Any crosses that are floated in are quickly gathered, just like Ruddy did. I expect a string of exceptional, breath-taking saves. De Gea often pulls off a string of difficult saves that keeps his team in the match. How many times have we gone there and said that if it wasn't for him then we would have scored 3 or 4. That's what top keepers do........they repel almost everything thrown at them and keep the team in the match. I'm sorry to say that we are sorely lacking at present but I do hope that Simon can still improve.

Keepers are one of the cheapest ways to improve a team. They are almost worth as much as top strikers but don't cost anywhere near.

ShayGuevara · « **Reply #1923 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:46:26 pm »

Quote from: Suareznumber7 on September 21, 2015, 01:20:31 pm

Read this last night about Tuchel which has some small bits about Klopp's final year at Dortmund.

http://spielverlagerung.com/2015/09/15/team-analysis-tuchels-borussia-dortmund/

Read it mate, it's an excellent read.

RedRush · « **Reply #1924 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:48:08 pm »

Quote from: stockdam on September 21, 2015, 02:43:49 pm

i expect a top keeper to dominate his area. Any crosses that are floated in are quickly gathered, just like Ruddy did. I expect a string of exceptional, breath-taking saves. De Gea often pulls off a string of difficult saves that keeps his team in the match. How many times have we gone there and said that if it wasn't for him then we would have scored 3 or 4. That's what top keepers do........they repel almost everything thrown at them and keep the team in the match. I'm sorry to say that we are sorry lacking at present but I do hope that Simon can still improve.

Keepers are one of the cheapest ways to improve a team. They are almost worth as much as top strikers but don't cost anywhere near.

Agree, although this is gonna be lost on those who merely look at clean sheets. De Gea wins at least 4-5 games per season for them, which translates to 8 points extra minimum. Is there anyone we can bring in the next window? Think this is still the most important position. We have to get rid of the jitters he transmits, as well as start off quick attacks, something we've sorely missed.

Weby72. · « **Reply #1925 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:48:28 pm »

Quote from: Buck Pete on September 21, 2015, 02:05:46 pm

Totally agree with this 100 fucking percent.

No academy kids should be anywhere near the squad let alone the starting 11.

A full strength team of available players. Get this won. The regulars need to celebrate a win together and hopefully a few goals.

I disagree 100%

The experience for younger/fringe players is vital in these (League Cup, Europa, FA Cup) competitions.

I don't see the point in established players giving mutual back-slaps for beating a 4th-tier club. And hey, what happens to the confidence of these established players if they struggle or, the gods forbid, lose?

wemmick · « **Reply #1926 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:52:19 pm »

Quote from: SP on September 21, 2015, 02:23:37 pm

We are not discussing who can be our next manager whilst we still have a manager. On RAWK we expect you to show the manager respect. And whilst we may have reached the point that we have allowed speculation as to whether Brendan's time is up, we have not declared open season on him. Discussing his replacement whilst he is still in the job is disrespectful, and we don't do that.

All right, SP. No offense was meant.

ShayGuevara · « **Reply #1927 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:53:16 pm »

Quote from: wemmick on September 21, 2015, 02:09:04 pm

Schmidt is a good manager, and Lucien Favre is available now. Both are better tactically than Rodgers, but I don't know if they are better than Klopp. He is a very good tactician and a supreme motivator. He lost his way a bit last season with all the injuries, but Klopp has mastered counter-pressing, and he is pretty damn good tactically in possession. They were awful in the first half of the season, but they battered some lower-table teams in the second half, and competed with those at the top. Tuchel seems to be largely refining Klopp's methods and the foundations he set at Dortmund, according to that article, and I think we'd be lucky to have such foundations here.

Honestly, I think I'd rather have Klopp than Schmidt or Favre, if only because we know he can create solid foundations for the club that other very good managers can build on. I'm not sure Rodgers has done that with the first team since Suarez left. In some ways we seemed foundationless last season, and it's continuing this season.

Wemmick I've just quoted a reply with a really interesting read on Dortmund post Klopp, would recommend you have a look if you haven't seen it already.

I agree with Klopps man management by the way. Most managers actually consider that the most important attribute in a manager, more so than tactics which us fans can get fixed up with. The other plus for Klopp is he is a proven big name, a lot of our fans won't be happy until they get that big name. Not that it makes him a better manager, just means he'll be given a bit more respect by some of the fans from day 1.

What's positive is that there is a few excellent options there. A quick look at Dortmunds shortlist (or ex manager) in the Summer would point FSG in the right direction to get the best of the current squad.

EDIT: just seen this, mods delete if you feel appropriate.

Quote from: SP on September 21, 2015, 02:23:37 pm

We are not discussing who can be our next manager whilst we still have a manager. On RAWK we expect you to show the manager respect. And whilst we may have reached the point that we have allowed speculation as to whether Brendan's time is up, we have not declared open season on him. Discussing his replacement whilst he is still in the job is disrespectful, and we don't do that.

saoirse08 · « **Reply #1928 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:55:33 pm »

Quote from: Weby72 on September 21, 2015, 02:02:25 pm

If that game would have come after performances against WHU & MU which matched those of the opening 3 games (not great overall, but adequate) and perhaps 4 points from those 2 games, then most would accept the Norwich result as one of those things (clearly the better team, a few wasted chances to put the game to bed, sucker-punched late on)

But the woeful displays in the preceding 2 league games, characterised as much for managerial tactical ineptness as players not performing, means that focus is going to be cranked up on Rodgers.

The fact is, we did play better - but you'd hope we would against one of the favourites for relegation. As many have said, the seemingly scattergun approach to choosing a formation, along with some other questionable tactics & substitutions, means that Rodgers still has a long way to go to convince a hell of a lot of fans that another manager could not do an awful lot better.

All very true. There's a very thin line between talking up an OK performance at home against Norwich (a team that will struggle to stay in the division) and polishing a turd.

exiledinyorkshire · « **Reply #1929 on:** September 21, 2015, 02:55:36 pm »

I was so so hacked off with it yesterday. I really felt it was time for a change.

But I woke up this morning and re-set myself. I think we need to stick with Brendan. He gets this team, and is trying to implement the kind of football we want to see. Its so difficult to match the Chelsea's and City's of this world. But I strongly believe we will get better after the end of October.

I'm off this site for a few months now, I have loved it on here for the most part, but I think the near constant repetition of negativity and listening to others venting isn't actually healthy in any way shape or form for me personally.

I spoke to my mate this morning who is a good red, we both mentioned the football, and both agreed we were disappointed by the result, and that was that. I think i'll stick with those kind of after match exchanges from now on, hearing how angry hundreds of isolated people are about a Liverpool game is actually fucking horrible, im sure its not the best part of any of us, but its seeping into the real world a bit for me now, so I'm off for a while t get a grip.

See you all in a couple of months.

Exiled

Mighty_Red · « **Reply #1930 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:01:17 pm »

Taken me a while to post, pretty peeved all round.

Probably already been mentioned, but this was exactly the same as the last time Norwich took a point off us - missing silly chances, taking the lead, pissing it away then trying to throw the kitchen sink to get it back and failing. Then again, we've seen that so many times in the past.

The players were guilty of sloppiness in attack, so many good positions and we took the wrong decisions too often. The Coutinho chance summed it all up, really really poor from one of our best players.

It was a great finish by Ings however, and he probably should've got another but its a good start from him.

To let them back in the match was also stupid. Another error from Mig and whilst the lack of attainable options (and focus on attack) meant that he stayed put I think we will have to replace him in the summer if we want to progress long term.

The problem is that while the performance was better, we really don't know whether this will start a good run, or will we get through a couple of games before failing again.

Things need to click soon or this season will be another disaster

Mr Mingebag Squid · « **Reply #1931 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:02:21 pm »

Quote from: wemmick on September 21, 2015, 02:09:04 pm

Schmidt is a good manager, and Lucien Favre is available now. Both are better tactically than Rodgers, but I don't know if they are better than Klopp. He is a very good tactician and a supreme motivator. He lost his way a bit last season with all the injuries, but Klopp has mastered counter-pressing, and he is pretty damn good tactically in possession. They were awful in the first half of the season, but they battered some lower-table teams in the second half, and competed with those at the top. Tuchel seems to be largely refining Klopp's methods and the foundations he set at Dortmund, according to that article, and I think we'd be lucky to have such foundations here.

Honestly, I think I'd rather have Klopp than Schmidt or Favre, if only because we know he can create solid foundations for the club that other very good managers can build on. I'm not sure Rodgers has done that with the first team since Suarez left. In some ways we seemed foundationless last season, and it's continuing this season.

Don't agree discussing things while we actually have a manager in place still - but this Favre guy - is he the one that marched BMG to bottom in the Bundesliga?

lgvkarlos · « **Reply #1932 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:04:29 pm »

Serious question. Can anybody explain to me what our current footballing philosophy is, are we a defensive team, attacking team do we try to play on the break or keep possession.
I can't work out either by formation or players what we are. We don't play team football anymore not in defence or attack, where has the one touch football gone.
Coutinho has gone from give and go to give and shoot. Brendan has lost all conviction he has changed half his squad and all his backroom staff in search of what I don't know, surely the guy who talked of having courage in possession and playing attacking football is still in there somewhere.

luckyluke · « **Reply #1933 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:08:19 pm »

Quote from: Pradan on September 21, 2015, 02:30:53 pm

Considering as soon as he left, it's all gone to shit, then maybe it is a justified title.

Considering he played here before that season as well maybe it isn't.

zero zero · « **Reply #1934 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:14:52 pm »

Quote from: QC on September 21, 2015, 10:00:17 am

He needs to leave to lift spirits at Anfield again. Can someone provide me with one good reason to keep Rodgers at the club?

We haven't secured a suitable replacement.

Haven't some of learned anything from the Hodgson appointment - find somebody better suited to us before you fire the incumbent.

Fordy · « **Reply #1935 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:16:08 pm »

Quote from: Bonsky on September 21, 2015, 03:05:16 pm

Few guys mentioned "get Klopp" in this thread, but according to many german football experts (for example former Polish international footballer, real expert on Bundesliga's behind the curtain stuff) Bayern want Klopp and Klopp wants Bayern, so we can stop talking about him.

Like you know that 100% on both counts.

Like SP says we still have a manager and so do Bayern. Now until anything changes Klopp will be linked with both jobs. Shows how good a manager he is though linked with 2 of the best clubs in the world.

He is also bookies fav for us should Rodgers leave. Point is until FSG sort their shit out then really they is no point discussing who should be manager as we have one.

TheTeflonJohn · « **Reply #1936 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:18:38 pm »

Quote from: SP on September 21, 2015, 02:23:37 pm

We are not discussing who can be our next manager whilst we still have a manager. On RAWK we expect you to show the manager respect. And whilst we may have reached the point that we have allowed speculation as to whether Brendan's time is up, we have not declared open season on him. Discussing his replacement whilst he is still in the job is disrespectful, and we don't do that.

Finally

spider-neil · « **Reply #1937 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:18:46 pm »

Quote from: Weby72 on September 21, 2015, 02:48:28 pm

I disagree 100%

The experience for younger/fringe players is vital in these (League Cup, Europa, FA Cup) competitions.

I don't see the point in established players giving mutual back-slaps for beating a 4th-tier club. And hey, what happens to the confidence of these established players if they struggle or, the gods forbid, lose?

Midweek should be about building up confidence to bring into the Villa game.
Sakho and Moreno built on their excellent midweek game in Europe and took that confidence into the Norwich game.
We need to be doing the same again. Giving time to the likes of Firmino, Lallana and maybe Allen if he is up to it.

Bendomac · « **Reply #1938 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:40:11 pm »

Quote from: spider-neil on September 21, 2015, 02:27:09 pm

So it's called 'The Suarez season' now. Despite the contributions of Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho and Sterling?

He got man of the match in just under half of the matches he played in that season. So yes, it was the Suarez season.

2013/2014
Games: 33
Mins: 2965
Goals: 31
Assists: 12
Man of the Matches: 14
Who Scored rating: 8.43

PIPA23 · « **Reply #1939 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:46:50 pm »

Quote from: spider-neil on September 21, 2015, 02:27:09 pm

So it's called 'The Suarez season' now. Despite the contributions of Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho and Sterling?

he made players around him better no doubt... but it is unfair i think, because we played good football and had results even without him...during his ban as far as i remember.

spider-neil · « **Reply #1940 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:50:07 pm »

Quote from: Bendomac on September 21, 2015, 03:40:11 pm

He got man of the match in just under half of the matches he played in that season. So yes, it was the Suarez season.

2013/2014
Games: 33
Mins: 2965
Goals: 31
Assists: 12
Man of the Matches: 14
Who Scored rating: 8.43

Sturridge
21 league goals.
Sturridge scored the most goals (Including Suarez) directly leading to points (winner or equaliser).

carling · « **Reply #1941 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:50:29 pm »

Quote from: LFCsupporter on September 21, 2015, 02:08:15 pm

Chelsea'll click sooner or later. Might even overhaul Arsenal yet. I'd say the only weak competition for 4th is United provided that van bellend falls out with a few senior players over the season. Not a given by any means, and with De Gea still there I think they'll have that ability to just scrape a 1-0 when they're not in form.

I had the Mancs on in the background when watching the Norwich game. Just about the same time we conceded they were showing a replay of a ridiculously good De Gea save after a corner. They were 1 goal up at the time and so were we. Their keeper kept them a goal up when you couldn't have blamed him if the goal went in, ours let a goal in when he should have done better. You're right that De Gea will help them when on the margins. Problem is I think they are a fair bit better than us even after that.

Our best chance is if our best players are fit and firing all season... so not much chance if you ask me

If Rodgers is going to go down I'd rather see him go down fighting. Two up top, diamond, attacking players starting.

If we start more games with a midfield trio of Milner, Lucas and Can I can see him going out with a whimper on the back of some turgid football..

carling · « **Reply #1942 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:53:28 pm »

Quote from: spider-neil on September 21, 2015, 02:27:09 pm

So it's called 'The Suarez season' now. Despite the contributions of Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho and Sterling?

Just watch all the goals from that season. I did about 10 times on LFC TV... the others were great, but by god it was insane how many times Suarez was the catalyst.

Flaccido Dongingo · « **Reply #1943 on:** September 21, 2015, 03:56:06 pm »

Quote from: Mighty_Red on September 21, 2015, 03:01:17 pm

Taken me a while to post, pretty peeved all round.

Probably already been mentioned, but this was exactly the same as the last time Norwich took a point off us - missing silly chances, taking the lead, pissing it away then trying to throw the kitchen sink to get it back and failing. Then again, we've seen that so many times in the past.

The players were guilty of sloppiness in attack, so many good positions and we took the wrong decisions too often. The Coutinho chance summed it all up, really really poor from one of our best players.

It was a great finish by Ings however, and he probably should've got another but its a good start from him.

To let them back in the match was also stupid. Another error from Mig and whilst the lack of attainable options (and focus on attack) meant that he stayed put I think we will have to replace him in the summer if we want to progress long term.

The problem is that while the performance was better, we really don't know whether this will start a good run, or will we get through a couple of games before failing again.

Things need to click soon or this season will be another disaster

Matthew Ryan joined Valencia for €5m and Asmir Begovic joined the Rent Boys for £8m, both a significant upgrade on Mignolet, and at affordable prices.

ShayGuevara · « **Reply #1944 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:04:01 pm »

Quote from: Flaccido Dongingo on September 21, 2015, 03:56:06 pm

Matthew Ryan joined Valencia for €5m and Asmir Begovic joined the Rent Boys for £8m, both a significant upgrade on Mignolet, and at affordable prices.

Begovic not suited to our style either and Ryan wouldn't of moved without the promise of first team football, I've watched interviews with him in Australia hes a clever lad and only wants what's best for his career. Not money motivated.

Kopenhagen · « **Reply #1945 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:04:31 pm »

Quote from: ShayGuevara on September 21, 2015, 04:04:01 pm

Begovic not suited to our style either and Ryan wouldn't of moved without the promise of first team football, I've watched interviews with him in Australia hes a clever lad and only wants what's best for his career. Not money motivated.

Should have given him first team football then. He's significantly better than Mignolet.

Flaccido Dongingo · « **Reply #1946 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:07:09 pm »

Quote from: ShayGuevara on September 21, 2015, 04:04:01 pm

Begovic not suited to our style either and Ryan wouldn't of moved without the promise of first team football, I've watched interviews with him in Australia hes a clever lad and only wants what's best for his career. Not money motivated.

Well he's second choice for Valencia behind Diego Alves, you don't think he'd be knocking on the door after Mignolets fuck up yesterday?

And as for Begovic, he's miles better than Mignolet, and does Mignolet suit "our style"?, what exactly is "our style"?

Chakan · « **Reply #1947 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:07:57 pm »

Quote from: ShayGuevara on September 21, 2015, 04:04:01 pm

Begovic not suited to our style either and Ryan wouldn't of moved without the promise of first team football, I've watched interviews with him in Australia hes a clever lad and only wants what's best for his career. Not money motivated.

Mignolet doesn't suit our style, whatever that is ...

wemmick · « **Reply #1948 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:10:00 pm »

Quote from: Mr Happy Squid on September 21, 2015, 03:02:21 pm

Don't agree discussing things while we actually have a manager in place still - but this Favre guy - is he the one that marched BMG to bottom in the Bundesliga?

Yes, but see the Bundesliga thread for more on him.

muyuu · « **Reply #1949 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:12:18 pm »

Quote from: ShayGuevara on September 21, 2015, 04:04:01 pm

Begovic not suited to our style either and Ryan wouldn't of moved without the promise of first team football, I've watched interviews with him in Australia hes a clever lad and only wants what's best for his career. Not money motivated.

I'm honestly curious about what our style is right now. Because a few seasons back we did seem to have a style, but now, other than playing no real wingers, I don't know what it is.

Allowing a lot of crosses and giving space in front of the box?

Mr Mingebag Squid · « **Reply #1950 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:16:48 pm »

Quote from: wemmick on September 21, 2015, 04:10:00 pm

Yes, but see the Bundesliga thread for more on him.

Clint Eastwood · « **Reply #1951 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:18:13 pm »

How bloody good was Moreno though? Great response from being dropped.

Phil M · « **Reply #1952 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:19:23 pm »

Quote from: Suareznumber7 on September 21, 2015, 01:20:31 pm

Read this last night about Tuchel which has some small bits about Klopp's final year at Dortmund.

What's that got to do with Liverpool 1-1 Norwich?

Anywhichwayicant · « **Reply #1953 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:20:52 pm »

Quote from: spider-neil on September 21, 2015, 02:27:09 pm

So it's called 'The Suarez season' now. Despite the contributions of Sturridge, Gerrard, Coutinho and Sterling?

Tell, what did those others achieve when Suarez left?

L666KOP · « **Reply #1954 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:20:59 pm »

Quote from: Clint Eastwood on September 21, 2015, 04:18:13 pm

How bloody good was Moreno though? Great response from being dropped.

Moreno and Sakho come as a pair mate.

Alberto's tendancy to bomb on means he can't be beside Lovren.

Sad really, great chunks of our team are in place because of deficiencies in certain positions...

Blue @ngel · « **Reply #1955 on:** September 21, 2015, 04:21:10 pm »

Quote from: Flaccido Dongingo on September 21, 2015, 03:56:06 pm

Matthew Ryan joined Valencia for €5m and Asmir Begovic joined the Rent Boys for £8m, both a significant upgrade on Mignolet, and at affordable prices.

Ryan moved for 7m€ actually, not that it makes a big difference