Topic: The knife edge

[vicgill]

I'm sure Rafa has worked with a DOF before. Wasn't that the case at Valencia? Besides focussing soley on football would be good for Rafa and hence the club.

Didn't he work with one at Inter

[talklfc]

so you think they went and hired a director of football, just to bring back a notoriously stubborn manager who hates not having total control? If that's the type of thinking they show, then we'll be in the same mismanaged boat as we were with H/G.

Said that, I'd bet every cent I have on his name not being seriously considered for more than a tenth of a second.

Exactly.

People should also consider that there's a very strong possibility that Rafa was removed as part of the grooming process to sell us.  It's also quite possible that a/the potential buyer made this stipulation.

[Rome-77]

I like your reasoning !

One further point is this: Rafa walked away from LFC with a load of cash, and Hodgson will do the same.
Rafa's presumably also had a decent pay-off from Inter. He probably doesn't ever have to work again, in terms of financial resources.

I wonder how NESV/FSV would take it if Rafa returned his LFC pay-off in exchange for a 2 year (to start with anyway) deal ...
In essence, Rafa gets his money back if he does well and stays the course (which I'd expect), and the owners get shot of Hodgson at, effectively, no cost.

o my god

[Cid]

I wonder how NESV/FSV would take it if Rafa returned his LFC pay-off in exchange for a 2 year (to start with anyway) deal ...
In essence, Rafa gets his money back if he does well and stays the course (which I'd expect), and the owners get shot of Hodgson at, effectively, no cost.

Sadly Rafa is not the selfless martyr that half of rawk paint him as.  If he was, he wouldn't have taken all that cash out of the club in the first place.

We need someone who can unite the fans, not split them once again.  I think even the likes of Mourinho would split us less, even o'neil would be given a chance..the lines are drawn with rafa, the opinions deap seated and ingrained.  He is not an option.

Look at how much Kenny was able to do with a handful of words just a few days ago...at how much hope he inspired by simply suggesting he was open to a conversation.  He's our man.

[urshurak]

Hmm ...

1) 5 good seasons (and 3 of those very good indeed) out of 6;
2) delivered success under a burden (no money, boardroom disharmony, outright dishonesty) that his peers (Mr Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho) had no equivalent difficulty with;
3) available right now without compensation required (Hicks and Gillett coughed for the last payout, not NESV/FSV);
4) ambitious, and a winner;
5) loves the club, wants the best for it, and his family are settled here;
6) successfully worked with director of football before

Ticks every box for me !

[urshurak]

Sadly Rafa is not the selfless martyr that half of rawk paint him as.  If he was, he wouldn't have taken all that cash out of the club in the first place.

We need someone who can unite the fans, not split them once again.  I think even the likes of Mourinho would split us less, even o'neil would be given a chance..the lines are drawn with rafa, the opinions deap seated and ingrained.  He is not an option.

Look at how much Kenny was able to do with a handful of words just a few days ago...at how much hope he inspired by simply suggesting he was open to a conversation.  He's our man.

I don't think Rafa's a martyr or selfless, but he's an ambitious winner who bonded very well with LFC aspirations and expectations. His tenure here was good for him and, by extension, good for us.

I think Kenny's higher risk than Rafa. He'd start off with tons of goodwill, but he's been out of footy for a long time. Charisma and goodwill only get you so far (think Keegan at the barcodes) - good players and tactical astuteness get you
the big prizes. It'll take a while to improve the quality of the squad to match the current top 5 (at least 2 transfer windows) and the fans will be VERY impatient.

I'm not convinced Kenny still has it, and it would be a shitty way to tarnish his rep if it went badly

[MagicB8all]

Hmm ...

1) 5 good seasons (and 3 of those very good indeed) out of 6;
2) delivered success under a burden (no money, boardroom disharmony, outright dishonesty) that his peers (Mr Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho) had no equivalent difficulty with;
3) available right now without compensation required (Hicks and Gillett coughed for the last payout, not NESV/FSV);
4) ambitious, and a winner;
5) loves the club, wants the best for it, and his family are settled here;
6) successfully worked with director of football before

Ticks every box for me !

You'd have thought these things would count in his favor. But what if NESV wanted Rafa removed before they bought the club?

[vicgill]

You'd have thought these things would count in his favor. But what if NESV wanted Rafa removed before they bought the club?

Well if they wanted Rafa removed then they must be responsible for Roy and if that were leaked then there would be massive concequences for them.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Bang on. If they take some time, let them, the appointment should be spot on.

Yes - that is right. I can see the managers first day in charge.

LFC Rep: "And this is your office and your desk sir, coffee machine, chalkboards.....
New Manager: "....and what are those 3 envelopes in my 'IN' tray?"
LFC Rep: "Ah, those sir? Yes, you'll need to deal with those first!"
New Manager: "Why? What are they?"
LFC Rep: "Those are the transfer requests from Torres, Reina and Agger"
New Manager: "Oh, I, errrrm!"

They do need to take some time for the next manager - without doubt! But, such is the nature of this season, the right temporary appointment can get us safe and prove to the fans and players that LFC is moving forward. The club would be lifted and who knows what will happen to Chelsea, Spuds, Sunderland, Bolton et al.

In small patches, we've shown enough to suggest we are far better than what we are doing. Act now before it's too late.

[Ambrosia]

Sadly Rafa is not the selfless martyr that half of rawk paint him as.  If he was, he wouldn't have taken all that cash out of the club in the first place.

We need someone who can unite the fans, not split them once again.  I think even the likes of Mourinho would split us less, even o'neil would be given a chance..the lines are drawn with rafa, the opinions deap seated and ingrained.  He is not an option.

Look at how much Kenny was able to do with a handful of words just a few days ago...at how much hope he inspired by simply suggesting he was open to a conversation.  He's our man.

What cash did Rafa take out of the club? 

Agree with the rest of your post. Kenny is the only person that can unite and boost the fan base.

[fatlip13]

dalglish biggest fault is how do you sack the man whether he is good, bad or average and i think that is what is keeping roy in a job.
rafa is done with liverpool as he is not going to get the power he had. the set-up now is what rafa should have been working under.
to me sticking is not an option especially if 35000 turn up the next home match. appoint any of the 2 above and i would say you sell out the rest of the year.
ultimately you pick DALGLISH and let the summer take care of itself

[Torpedo Tommy]

Sadly Rafa is not the selfless martyr that half of rawk paint him as.  If he was, he wouldn't have taken all that cash out of the club in the first place.

We need someone who can unite the fans, not split them once again.  I think even the likes of Mourinho would split us less, even o'neil would be given a chance..the lines are drawn with rafa, the opinions deap seated and ingrained.  He is not an option.

Look at how much Kenny was able to do with a handful of words just a few days ago...at how much hope he inspired by simply suggesting he was open to a conversation.  He's our man.

Martin O'Neill? I'd sooner give Souness another crack.

Not saying Rafa would be the right manager but MON!? He spent money on an underperforming midtable side to get them punching slightly above their weight. He'd be little better than Hodgson in my opinion!

[Torpedo Tommy]

What cash did Rafa take out of the club? 

Agree with the rest of your post. Kenny is the only person that can unite and boost the fan base.

His pay off I think he means

[Red_Rich]

This is very presumptuous and dangerous. We could get relegated if we continue like the way we have. Do not be lulled into a false sense of security mate.

If we can't manage 5 more wins from our remaining 19 games (40pts surely being enough) then we deserve to be relegated!

[OldCold]

Getting relegated ? Behave.

Even with Roy till EOS, we won't go down.

[Torpedo Tommy]

dalglish biggest fault is how do you sack the man whether he is good, bad or average?

ultimately you pick DALGLISH and let the summer take care of itself

I honestly believe that Kenny would do the right thing for LFC. If we were struggling under him I think he'd resign if someone better came in.

I'd love to see Dalglish in with someone at the side ready to take the reigns.

[Ambrosia]

His pay off I think he means

So according to Cid, because he took the pay off (well deserved imo, for the crappy way he was treated), it means he didn't care about the club?

Love the logic. He was entitled to a lot more.

[redtiler]

Please dont mention MON in any way concerning LFC

[Torpedo Tommy]

If we can't manage 5 more wins from our remaining 19 games (40pts surely being enough) then we deserve to be relegated!

My fear is we don't manage it! We could easily be bottom half again by the derby and go into it heavy legged with the number of tricky away games we have. Resting players is not an option to Roy at OT.....well, hope it's not!

[Ambrosia]

Please dont mention MON in any way concerning LFC

Seconded. I'd rather we handed a 5 year contract to Roy than have that goblin at our club.

[StanBull]

Getting relegated ? Behave.

Even with Roy till EOS, we won't go down.

Mate, we lost at home to the mighty Wolves! As for Blackpool and Northampton .........................................

[steve10]

If Hodgson stays we will finish outside the top 7 and forget about European football next season because we are not going to win the mickey mouse cup either. With a new manager we will finish in the top 6. Hodgson is a clueless manager with no tactics or understanding of mordern day football. If the owners do not sack him and wait till the end of the season- the attendances at the games will get lower and lower, quality players will not want to join next season immaterial of the manager because of lack of European football, Torres will be gone ,the value of the club will diminish further and we will be even further adrift from the top clubs.

[fatlip13]

I honestly believe that Kenny would do the right thing for LFC. If we were struggling under him I think he'd resign if someone better came in.

I'd love to see Dalglish in with someone at the side ready to take the reigns.

it is the position it puts FSG/NESV in, they don't want that position. if kenny got it and did well would he give it up? he said in his latest book he wanted the job again, also in the summer and he would realise it was his last chance. i would not make it easy if it was me and i was improving the team

[Cid]

Martin O'Neill? I'd sooner give Souness another crack.

Not saying Rafa would be the right manager but MON!? He spent money on an underperforming midtable side to get them punching slightly above their weight. He'd be little better than Hodgson in my opinion!

I agree he is average at best, and I hope he is not even on the list, but in the unlikely chance he came here I think most fans would at least give him a chance.  Most gave Hodgson a chance, despite the media trying to claim otherwise.

To the above question, forgive me for not quoting as I'm on a mobile, but the money to compensate Rafa came from the club, not the tumours.

Contractually, he had every right to it, but if he had the club at heart as much as some claim he wouldn't have taken it, especially as he knew he was walking straight into inter.

It's beside the point anyway, this very conversation is proof that people are divided on Rafa, always will be.  We need unity.

[Torpedo Tommy]

So according to Cid, because he took the pay off (well deserved imo, for the crappy way he was treated), it means he didn't care about the club?

Love the logic. He was entitled to a lot more.

Think a lot of people think that last seasons performance was purely down to poor management Don't think they take into account the numerous other elements he was fighting. Either that or they refuse to take them into account.

[Torpedo Tommy]

I agree he is average at best, and I hope he is not even on the list, but in the unlikely chance he came here I think most fans would at least give him a chance.  Most gave Hodgson a chance, despite the media trying to claim otherwise.

To the above question, forgive me for not quoting as I'm on a mobile, but the money to compensate Rafa came from the club, not the tumours.

Contractually, he had every right to it, but if he had the club at heart as much as some claim he wouldn't have taken it, especially as he knew he was walking straight into inter.

It's beside the point anyway, this very conversation is proof that people are divided on Rafa, always will be.  We need unity.

He'd be given a chance but with minimal top flight success it would be a risk, and an horrible risk to watch.

We need unity is a very good point. A manager can do that. One who knows the club and fans.

[Torpedo Tommy]

it is the position it puts FSG/NESV in, they don't want that position. if kenny got it and did well would he give it up? he said in his latest book he wanted the job again, also in the summer and he would realise it was his last chance. i would not make it easy if it was me and i was improving the team

You are right. But if we are improving then why not give it him full time. We would just need someone to take over when Kenny decides he's had enough. If he's working closely with Kenny it makes it so much easier

[Cid]

So according to Cid, because he took the pay off (well deserved imo, for the crappy way he was treated), it means he didn't care about the club?

Love the logic. He was entitled to a lot more.

Oh please read the thread before spouting such drivel.  I was replying to the fantasist who thinks Rafa is going to ride in on his white horse and hand all the cash back.

[gandalf50]

so you think they went and hired a director of football, just to bring back a notoriously stubborn manager who hates not having total control? If that's the type of thinking they show, then we'll be in the same mismanaged boat as we were with H/G.

Said that, I'd bet every cent I have on his name not being seriously considered for more than a tenth of a second.

No they hired a DOF on the advice of a Baseball nut who had happened to meet Comolli once or twice.

[silver 5 star]

Getting relegated ? Behave.

Even with Roy till EOS, we won't go down.

So losing at home to the team bottom of the Premiership wasn't enough to wake you up then?

What if we lose Gerrard and Torres?

[silver 5 star]

Oh please read the thread before spouting such drivel.  I was replying to the fantasist who thinks Rafa is going to ride in on his white horse and hand all the cash back.

No Rafa was hit with the snide comment "If he loved the club so much, why did he take all that money out of it"?

Erm..........because he was entitled to?

How much money did the two yank c*nts take out?

You have an anti-Rafa agenda.

Enjoy Istanbul did you?

You better had, we won't see another CL final for another 20 fucking years.

[givemekaliber]

Hodgson will not be sacked before the season ends

Kenny will never become Liverpool manager again

Neither will Rafa

Both of the above are indeed regrettable

Lets make do with what we've got

[xerxes1]

Love the logic. He was entitled to a lot more.

The pay off was what he was entitled to (mutual consent settlements are paid net).

The issue of how a Dofs will play out with the appointment of a new manager in the first instance,and then on a working basis, does put the management of the Club on a knife edge. Should be interesting.

[Liverbird 2010]

I am still not convinced by the new owners once bitten twice shy and all that......
Actions speak louder than words, they have said the right things up until now but what a worry about is Broughton & Purslow selling to them and bringing Roy in, they made a dreadfull mistake appointing Hodgson what if they also made a dreadfull mistake selling to NESV? We dont know yet do we?
People keep saying they dont understand football, well why buy a football club then? They have bought us for a reason and one reason alone to make money out of us, and the way things are going at the momment they probably think to themselves what the fuckinell have we wasted our money on.
Nearly 10 thousand empty seats on saturday, due to the absolute dire football thats been on offer since the Croydon Crank took charge, an ugly atmosphere a few days before against Wolves this is not the famous Anfield atmosphere this is on par with Gillett & Hicks out chants, I agree with the Hodge for England chants but I dont like it, I dont like what we have become through no fault of our own.

We didnt ask for this but its been forced onto us by men in suits, who should stick to finance and not meddle in football matters, the people that brought Roy in have deserted him and abandoned him, he is on his own he has no friends and knows he's not wanted yet he wont walk away from his big pay day, and we have to suffer because of it.
If NESV want to be taken serious they have to act now so we can enjoy the rest of the season a caretaker manager is a better option than keeping Roy here for the remainder of the season because this downward spiral will continue we will win a match, and get beat the next and so on, and so fourth, this needs to be nipped in the bud asap, put Roy and us out of his and our misery and see what the rest of the season brings, those that say we are in transition and its not Roys fault well we will only know that if he is relieved of his duties and the caretaker is a total failure, but I dont think it will be the case.

The Hicks & Gillett era still hasnt gone from the club and it needs to be before we can move on.

[urshurak]

Oh please read the thread before spouting such drivel.  I was replying to the fantasist who thinks Rafa is going to ride in on his white horse and hand all the cash back.

Err, I think you're referring to me. Where do I say that I think this will happen ?
Nowhere actually - so learn to read, and get someone to help you with the big words, before making statements like that.

I suggested this: Rafa handing the pay-off cash back in return for a 2 year deal is a gamble on both sides. If he fails the cash is lost, but it's a chance to finish his project
under more reasonable working conditions. For NESV, the risk is mitigated by the fact that both sides would make financial committments AND they'd get rid of Hodgson for nowt.

[vicgill]

His pay off I think he means

Of which he donated large portions of it to local charities

[Torpedo Tommy]

I am still not convinced by the new owners once bitten twice shy and all that......
Actions speak louder than words, they have said the right things up until now but what a worry about is Broughton & Purslow selling to them and bringing Roy in, they made a dreadfull mistake appointing Hodgson what if they also made a dreadfull mistake selling to NESV? We dont know yet do we?
People keep saying they dont understand football, well why buy a football club then? They have bought us for a reason and one reason alone to make money out of us, and the way things are going at the momment they probably think to themselves what the fuckinell have we wasted our money on.
Nearly 10 thousand empty seats on saturday, due to the absolute dire football thats been on offer since the Croydon Crank took charge, an ugly atmosphere a few days before against Wolves this is not the famous Anfield atmosphere this is on par with Gillett & Hicks out chants, I agree with the Hodge for England chants but I dont like it, I dont like what we have become through no fault of our own.

We didnt ask for this but its been forced onto us by men in suits, who should stick to finance and not meddle in football matters, the people that brought Roy in have deserted him and abandoned him, he is on his own he has no friends and knows he's not wanted yet he wont walk away from his big pay day, and we have to suffer because of it.
If NESV want to be taken serious they have to act now so we can enjoy the rest of the season a caretaker manager is a better option than keeping Roy here for the remainder of the season because this downward spiral will continue we will win a match, and get beat the next and so on, and so fourth, this needs to be nipped in the bud asap, put Roy and us out of his and our misery and see what the rest of the season brings, those that say we are in transition and its not Roys fault well we will only know that if he is relieved of his duties and the caretaker is a total failure, but I dont think it will be the case.

The Hicks & Gillett era still hasnt gone from the club and it needs to be before we can move on.

Excellent points made Liverbird

Think it's important to highlight failure. To Fulham, failure wil be anything less than top half. Failure for a club which wishes to challenge for the league should be anything worse than 2nd. 2nd would suggest a challenge has happened assuming the points difference to first isnt silly. 2nd shouldn't become acceptable long term though!

I agree that the squad isn't exactly the one it was 18 month ago but our targets must be raised. Last season has got us talking about top half of the table when in reality even average performances against Wolves, Blackpool, Birmingham and Wigan could have seen us 7-10 points better off in this season.

If expectations are lowered again we as a club are on a knife edge. A new manager coming in should not set is target of top half / Euro League spaces. It should be winning the league. Yes he should be afforded time but if we aim for 7th and get 8th is that deemed as a nearly miss? We aim for winning the league every season and see where that takes us - give it the Blackpool approach.

I don't understand NESV. I genuinely dont get this sticking by Roy. If half a season isn't long enough to make a decision I'm at a loss what is. Forgetting the game at OT, can anyone see us getting more than a point in our next two away games?

My worry is that those two away games will take us nicely to mid January. If Roy is sacked then it leaves only 2 weeks to appoint a manager and make new signings. It gives NESV the chance to say new signings were not possible given the timescales.

They've been very professional so far. Just the first seeds of doubt are creeping in. I personally dont want them to sign numerous players of Roys standard when it is not possible for him to succeed. But they really do need to see the light and get the club turning another corner now.

He shouldn't be on a knife edge! He fell from that back in the autumn.

[Torpedo Tommy]

Of which he donated large portions of it to local charities

Yes

[Torpedo Tommy]

Hodgson will not be sacked before the season ends

Kenny will never become Liverpool manager again

Neither will Rafa

Both of the above are indeed regrettable

Lets make do with what we've got

Ha ha! Yes WUM

[Cid]

I suggested this: Rafa handing the pay-off cash back in return for a 2 year deal is a gamble on both sides. If he fails the cash is lost, but it's a chance to finish his project
under more reasonable working conditions. For NESV, the risk is mitigated by the fact that both sides would make financial committments AND they'd get rid of Hodgson for nowt.

Do you honestly think there is even the tiniest possibility that Rafa would hand back his pay-off to get the job? I'm more likely to sprout wings, but if it happens I'll take it all back, and admit the man is a saint.

As for my 'anti-rafa agenda', that is pretty much true in rawk terms.  I don't think he is or was the second coming of Shankly, I don't even think he did much more than Houlier.

Appointing Roy was the fuckup.  If we had gone with someone like Pellegrini in the first place we wouldn't be having this conversation.