I don't think Corbyn is infallible by any means but before blaming every woe on Corbyn some people conveniently ignore that it wasn't under Corbyn that Labour was totally decimated in Scotland and didn't just lose a by-election but lost practically a whole country or that years of Blair led to real disillusionment and apathy in Labour amongst core supporters. The decline in the Labour vote didn't start when Corbyn was elected leader and rather than any serious comradely discussion this thread seems full of vitriol and would be one of the last places I'd want to discuss anything serious in. like many of us I talk to people of all political persuasions in work about politics and if I answered workmates like people talk to each other in here there'd be punches flying.
I wonder how some of you convince anyone of your politics in a work environment, where you come across all different views from people you have to work with and have work relationships with, because unless you're their boss and they're frightened of you, starting with your point of difference and shouting doesn't work, take it from someone who's had over a quarter of a century as a shop steward and wouldn't have lasted two minutes without respecting where people are and arguing with a bit of respect for each other. But hey it's the internet so carry on being right.
That's fair comment Albie except that for me and a lot of people the Corbyn discussion is not about politics, it's a question of competence and electability. And the reason Corbyn is so divisive is that you either see it or you don't. And then of course there's the whole Brexit issue.
All of those issues you raise need to be discussed if the party is ever to unite and get near to power again. Corbyn is simply too divisive and while he's there the Party will continue to self destruct.
My position is simple. The 'enemy' to be fought is the Tory Party and that's not because of 'politics' but because of what it means to people. The solution is not principled opposition - it's being in Government.
I disagree with Jon that what we need is a charismatic leader because that devalues why the party should be about. The party needs to work out how to make The Party the thing. It needs to remind itself that it doesn't exist as a political talking shop but to look after the people who need it most and those who would benefit in general. They may include the members and the activists but my understanding of socialism is that you don't do what's best for you as an individual, but what's best for the collective.
A lot of people on here that I like and respect probably think I'm a red Tory c*nt because of my position on Corbyn. That's sad and I have no doubt that their position is honestly and sincerely held but the all the evidence is that Corbyn is electorally toxic. His only chance of winning an election is Tory incompetence on a grand scale. Corbyn has shown that he can't make an impact despite the level of incompetence they have already shown over Brexit and austerity. In fact, on Brexit he has managed to tie the Labour Party firmly to the mast of HMS Leave despite the majority of Labour supporters being in favour of staying in the EU.
This is longer than I intended but I honestly don't know how the party gets itself out of this. I do know that trying to make Corbyn look electable is a non-starter for all the reasons I outlined when he was first up for election.