Poll

Obviously the Brexit effects are only just showing and it's going to get a lot, lot worse.. but for now..

.. Brexit is going great. Sunlit fucking plateaus full of fucking wonder
.. Brexit is just taking time, it'll be reet
Moo!
.. Brexit is pretty bad, but maybe will get better
.. Brexit is terrible
.. Rees Mogg and all the Brexiters should be hung off a lamp-post.
.. Rees Mogg and all the Brexiters should be hung off a lamp-post AND I like cheese

Author Topic: Brexit. the Con continues  (Read 533767 times)

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5760 on: November 19, 2021, 06:51:33 pm »
I was reading something the other day, that when we were in the EU, we had the right to send people back to the last safe country they were in, non EU countries don't have that right. Its fuelling the migrants taking even more risks, as they know if they can make it here they won't be sent back.

The Dublin Agreement https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/policies/migration-and-asylum/common-european-asylum-system/country-responsible-asylum-application_en

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5762 on: November 19, 2021, 07:24:51 pm »
I remember reading before that we often took in more people than we sent back based on the Dublin agreement. Presumably people that arrived in the uk by air.

Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5763 on: November 20, 2021, 11:00:05 am »
Further benefits for NI although the likes of Frost et al won’t shout about it

https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/ardagh-metal-makes-e178m-post-brexit-investment-in-northern-ireland-1216274.html

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5764 on: November 22, 2021, 10:20:20 am »
Is this basically Ireland (North and South) doing well but England isn't so they have to fuck everyone over?

Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5765 on: November 22, 2021, 10:30:04 am »
Is this basically Ireland (North and South) doing well but England isn't so they have to fuck everyone over?

This Brexit government won’t highlight the benefits of remaining in the EU single market, so prefer to keep quiet about it and divert attention by bluster from Frost re threatening to trigger Article 16 of the protocol.  Fairly sure they’d again happily throw NI under the proverbial bus only for US pressure to stick to the agreement Government negotiated and signed off.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5766 on: November 22, 2021, 10:49:11 am »
Is this basically Ireland (North and South) doing well but England isn't so they have to fuck everyone over?

To clarify the previous post - the answer is yes.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5767 on: November 22, 2021, 12:33:03 pm »
‘People expect cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted’: a hotelier on life without EU workers

Veryan Palmer should be looking forward to her Cornish hotel’s best ever November. Instead, she is having to shut rooms at the five-star establishment

Mon 22 Nov 2021 09.00 GMT

The Headland hotel in Cornwall has been in Veryan Palmer’s family all her life. Her parents bought the imposing Victorian pile overlooking Fistral Beach, Newquay, 43 years ago. Now Palmer, 37, is director. They have always had staff from Europe. “My parents would talk about when European countries joined the EU they would suddenly get an influx of staff from a new country,” she says. “They remember the summer that Poland joined and the sudden influx of Polish housekeeping staff who are just phenomenal.”

In 2019, about half the staff were non-British. Palmer attributes the identity and the success of the hotel – one of just two in the county with five stars – to them. “There is no chance we would be where we are now without the skills of people coming from other countries.”

It used not to be hard to recruit. “Cornwall is a lovely place to come and work; we’re pretty hot on the work-life balance, and the life part is pretty fun, with beaches and surfing. So it’s always been attractive for hospitality team members from across Europe.”

Workers came from all over: Spain, Italy, France, Poland, Romania, Estonia, sometimes whole families. Some came for just a summer, to practise their English; others came over and settled. They brought experience with them, says Palmer. “They have a greater understanding of what our European guests want, and a skill level you don’t always see in UK hospitality workers. In Europe, a lot of young people have part-time jobs from around the age of 16, so when they come over at 18 or 20 they have already got quite a bit of work experience. They understand that if work starts at nine, you turn up at five to nine. We end up doing quite a lot of life-skills training for people who have been brought up in the UK.”

Hospitality has been hit hard recently. Palmer says it’s difficult to distinguish what is Brexit and what is the pandemic: “It’s just all come together in one mighty swirl of a disaster zone.”

Your food and drink is going to cost a huge amount more and a lot of places won’t survive

What’s certain is that many workers went home during the pandemic and didn’t come back, either because they weren’t allowed to or didn’t want to. If they don’t already have settled status in the UK, applicants from both EU and non-EU countries have to be paid a salary of at least £25,600 under the new skilled worker visa scheme. More than 90,000 workers left the country’s hospitality sector during the past year. London, where up to 75% of hospitality workers were from the EU pre-Covid, has been hardest hit. Job vacancies across the industry are at the highest levels on record.

She thinks her business will survive, by looking hard at costs, but that some hotels won’t and that it’s going to be incredibly tough for the industry. “Hospitality works on such tight margins. With the rising cost of food, most of us have used the drop in VAT to suck that up, instead of putting up our prices.”

But that VAT reduction for hospitality is tapering off: it’s up from 5% to 12.5% and in April will return to its pre-pandemic 20%. On top of that, hospitality wages are up 23%, Palmer says. “Someone’s got to pay for that. Your food and drink is going to cost a huge amount more and a lot of places won’t survive. The expectation of cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted.”

Palmer says that the percentage of British staff at the Headland has risen to about 80%, and that in Cornwall some businesses have been able to put wages up because they’ve had such a busy year. But that’s had a detrimental knock-on effect on other sectors – such as care, for example. “If you can get maybe two, three, four pounds an hour more in hospitality, where you’re not doing night shifts, what are you going to do?”

For now, Palmer has 11 international placement students at the Headland hotel. They are attached to UK universities, so have student visas and are permitted to work. But still she could do with another 30 or 40 staff, especially as Cornwall is such a hot destination. “We’ve got a crazy October and, in theory, this November will be the best November we’ve ever had. However, we have had to shut off 20 out of 91 bedrooms to make sure all our staff can have two days off a week.”

On Brexit, Palmer says a lot of promises were made by both sides, “when actually no one truly knew what the outcome would be. It was a bonkers thing to go to a referendum on, there was never going to be accurate and truthful information.”

So which way did she vote? She laughs – she’s not telling. “Whichever way I say, people would tear me apart.”
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Offline stewil007

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5768 on: November 22, 2021, 01:30:11 pm »


So which way did she vote? She laughs – she’s not telling. “Whichever way I say, people would tear me apart.”

Hmmm, i wonder........

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5769 on: November 22, 2021, 06:52:15 pm »
‘People expect cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted’: a hotelier on life without EU workers
Veryan Palmer should be looking forward to her Cornish hotel’s best ever November. Instead, she is having to shut rooms at the five-star establishment
Mon 22 Nov 2021 09.00 GMT
snip
And more from the Guardian here:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/22/all-my-friends-went-home-a-fruit-picker-on-life-without-eu-workers

This in regard to the "just pay more and people will come" argument:
>> The issue is that Turner cannot recruit British workers, and EU citizens can’t get into the country. The pay is decent: Popa tells me that she earns between £2,000 and £2,500 a month, after tax, depending on how much she picks. But it’s backbreaking, exhausting work, and UK workers don’t want to do it. “It’s too hard,” says Turner. Last year, he recruited 88 British staff under the government-backed Pick for Britain campaign. “Most of them didn’t last three hours,” he says. “Imagine the paperwork, to put 88 people on the books.” Only two people stayed for more than a few days.<<

And of course this makes sense from the EU worker perspective:
>>And it’s likely that this year will be Popa’s last in the UK. “I will miss the UK,” she says. “It’s a nice country. The people are nice.” But all her friends are in Spain, or Germany, picking fruit, so she’s probably going to head there and join them next year. “It’s easier to travel there,” she says. “The documentation is easier, and the money is similar. And it’s closer to Bulgaria.”<<

The UK really kicked itself in the teeth big time and with each passing month it gets harder to see how these issues could be resolved with the current donkeys leading the country.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 06:54:54 pm by lamad »

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5770 on: November 22, 2021, 07:02:44 pm »

The UK really kicked itself in the teeth big time and with each passing month it gets harder to see how these issues could be resolved with the current donkeys leading the country.

But they got the migrants to stop coming didn't they, so it was worth fucking the economy for, wasn't it?




Number of migrants crossing Channel to UK tops 1,000 in new daily record https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59257107

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Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5771 on: November 22, 2021, 10:30:41 pm »
Remember Johnson and this  ‘unicorn’ type project.  Another fairytale has ended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59368707

Meanwhile

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40740834.html

Online lamad

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5772 on: November 22, 2021, 10:44:52 pm »
But they got the migrants to stop coming didn't they, so it was worth fucking the economy for, wasn't it?




Number of migrants crossing Channel to UK tops 1,000 in new daily record https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59257107
Oops, yes, totally forgot the UK just barely escaped a Turkish invasion, all thanks to this whatshisname bearer of truths. The good British folk would all have been assimilated by alien beings from strange lands. How stupid of me!  ::) ;)

Online lobsterboy

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5773 on: November 23, 2021, 09:35:30 am »
On Brexit, Palmer says a lot of promises were made by both sides, “when actually no one truly knew what the outcome would be. It was a bonkers thing to go to a referendum on, there was never going to be accurate and truthful information.”

This is the kind of shite that drives me insane.
Any expert on trade and business could and did tell you it was going to be terrible and wreck our economy.
Only grifters like frottage and johnson, funded by billionaire tax avoiders were arguing otherwise and all were proven liars.
There was plenty of accurate and truthful information. That's since been evidenced by the results of exiting. The truth is that many english people were simply too thick, selfish and racist to listen to that, instead preferring the crap spouted by the wanabe hitler and mussolini, Frottage and Johnson. They are getting what they deserve but unfortunately taking the rest down with them.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5774 on: November 23, 2021, 10:29:36 am »
Agree. The whole "oh, nobody knows what is going to happen, it might be alright" shite gives her away as a Leave voter.
Everybody who gave it a split seconds thought knew it would be desastrous for the economy.
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5775 on: November 23, 2021, 11:18:02 am »
Agree. The whole "oh, nobody knows what is going to happen, it might be alright" shite gives her away as a Leave voter.
Everybody who gave it a split seconds thought knew it would be desastrous for the economy.

Remainers who accept Brexit describe it as something to live with. Leavers who are inconvenienced by Brexit highlight supposed unknowns.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5776 on: November 23, 2021, 11:23:33 am »
‘People expect cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted’: a hotelier on life without EU workers

Veryan Palmer should be looking forward to her Cornish hotel’s best ever November. Instead, she is having to shut rooms at the five-star establishment

Mon 22 Nov 2021 09.00 GMT

The Headland hotel in Cornwall has been in Veryan Palmer’s family all her life. Her parents bought the imposing Victorian pile overlooking Fistral Beach, Newquay, 43 years ago. Now Palmer, 37, is director. They have always had staff from Europe. “My parents would talk about when European countries joined the EU they would suddenly get an influx of staff from a new country,” she says. “They remember the summer that Poland joined and the sudden influx of Polish housekeeping staff who are just phenomenal.”

In 2019, about half the staff were non-British. Palmer attributes the identity and the success of the hotel – one of just two in the county with five stars – to them. “There is no chance we would be where we are now without the skills of people coming from other countries.”

It used not to be hard to recruit. “Cornwall is a lovely place to come and work; we’re pretty hot on the work-life balance, and the life part is pretty fun, with beaches and surfing. So it’s always been attractive for hospitality team members from across Europe.”

Workers came from all over: Spain, Italy, France, Poland, Romania, Estonia, sometimes whole families. Some came for just a summer, to practise their English; others came over and settled. They brought experience with them, says Palmer. “They have a greater understanding of what our European guests want, and a skill level you don’t always see in UK hospitality workers. In Europe, a lot of young people have part-time jobs from around the age of 16, so when they come over at 18 or 20 they have already got quite a bit of work experience. They understand that if work starts at nine, you turn up at five to nine. We end up doing quite a lot of life-skills training for people who have been brought up in the UK.”

Hospitality has been hit hard recently. Palmer says it’s difficult to distinguish what is Brexit and what is the pandemic: “It’s just all come together in one mighty swirl of a disaster zone.”

Your food and drink is going to cost a huge amount more and a lot of places won’t survive

What’s certain is that many workers went home during the pandemic and didn’t come back, either because they weren’t allowed to or didn’t want to. If they don’t already have settled status in the UK, applicants from both EU and non-EU countries have to be paid a salary of at least £25,600 under the new skilled worker visa scheme. More than 90,000 workers left the country’s hospitality sector during the past year. London, where up to 75% of hospitality workers were from the EU pre-Covid, has been hardest hit. Job vacancies across the industry are at the highest levels on record.

She thinks her business will survive, by looking hard at costs, but that some hotels won’t and that it’s going to be incredibly tough for the industry. “Hospitality works on such tight margins. With the rising cost of food, most of us have used the drop in VAT to suck that up, instead of putting up our prices.”

But that VAT reduction for hospitality is tapering off: it’s up from 5% to 12.5% and in April will return to its pre-pandemic 20%. On top of that, hospitality wages are up 23%, Palmer says. “Someone’s got to pay for that. Your food and drink is going to cost a huge amount more and a lot of places won’t survive. The expectation of cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted.”

Palmer says that the percentage of British staff at the Headland has risen to about 80%, and that in Cornwall some businesses have been able to put wages up because they’ve had such a busy year. But that’s had a detrimental knock-on effect on other sectors – such as care, for example. “If you can get maybe two, three, four pounds an hour more in hospitality, where you’re not doing night shifts, what are you going to do?”

For now, Palmer has 11 international placement students at the Headland hotel. They are attached to UK universities, so have student visas and are permitted to work. But still she could do with another 30 or 40 staff, especially as Cornwall is such a hot destination. “We’ve got a crazy October and, in theory, this November will be the best November we’ve ever had. However, we have had to shut off 20 out of 91 bedrooms to make sure all our staff can have two days off a week.”

On Brexit, Palmer says a lot of promises were made by both sides, “when actually no one truly knew what the outcome would be. It was a bonkers thing to go to a referendum on, there was never going to be accurate and truthful information.”

So which way did she vote? She laughs – she’s not telling. “Whichever way I say, people would tear me apart.”

She's looking at it the wrong way. we did know a lot of things would happen but we didn't know all the negative effects Brexit would bring.
I remember saying, "Brexit will hit us in ways we never imagined." it was always mostly going to be negative.

It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline nayia2002

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5777 on: November 23, 2021, 11:48:30 am »
She's looking at it the wrong way. we did know a lot of things would happen but we didn't know all the negative effects Brexit would bring.
I remember saying, "Brexit will hit us in ways we never imagined." it was always mostly going to be negative.



You know she's a gammon (and the majority of gammons are coming out with this now)when she said "nobody knew what would happen"  :wanker :no

It was classed as project fear sweet heart if you don't remember  :butt :no :wanker
who are you to judge the life i live?
i know im not perfect-and i dont live to be,
but before you start pointing fingers make
sure your hands are clean!.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5778 on: November 23, 2021, 11:56:45 am »
You know she's a gammon (and the majority of gammons are coming out with this now)when she said "nobody knew what would happen"  :wanker :no

It was classed as project fear sweet heart if you don't remember  :butt :no :wanker
Yeah, we put up trade barriers, add extra costs to our exports and imports, we add more costly bureaucracy but nobody knows what's going to happen.
Same with our trade deals,  who gets the best deal, 65mill UK customers or 350 mill EU customers, you don't need to be a trade expert to work these things out.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline kavah

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5779 on: November 23, 2021, 01:04:42 pm »
A post-Brexit scheme to draw the world’s most celebrated academics and other leading figures to the UK has failed to attract a single applicant

 :lmao

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/23/post-brexit-scheme-to-lure-nobel-winners-to-uk-fails-to-attract-single-applicant


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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5780 on: November 23, 2021, 01:07:39 pm »
A post-Brexit scheme to draw the world’s most celebrated academics and other leading figures to the UK has failed to attract a single applicant

 :lmao

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/23/post-brexit-scheme-to-lure-nobel-winners-to-uk-fails-to-attract-single-applicant



The scheme itself is a joke – it cannot be discussed seriously. The government thinks if you pump up UK science with a verbal diarrhoea of optimism – it can somehow become a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

Ouch...  ;D

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5781 on: November 23, 2021, 01:10:35 pm »
A post-Brexit scheme to draw the world’s most celebrated academics and other leading figures to the UK has failed to attract a single applicant

 :lmao

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/23/post-brexit-scheme-to-lure-nobel-winners-to-uk-fails-to-attract-single-applicant



Even the ‘pick for Britain’ scheme had a handful turning up until they cried off with sore backs after a few hours graft.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5782 on: November 23, 2021, 07:15:07 pm »
A post-Brexit scheme to draw the world’s most celebrated academics and other leading figures to the UK has failed to attract a single applicant

 :lmao

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/23/post-brexit-scheme-to-lure-nobel-winners-to-uk-fails-to-attract-single-applicant



Saw that.

Depressing just how much prestige and influence the UK has lost.

We're just a complete laughing stock.
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5783 on: November 23, 2021, 07:31:55 pm »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/23/brexiters-france-eurosceptic-tories-britain-eu

For Brexiters who dreamed of taking back control, France is too close for comfort

Eurosceptic Tories, here’s the bad news: it’s a fiction that Britain can have a foreign policy fit for purpose without the EU


Considering that the width of the Channel does not change, it is surprising how often British politicians seem surprised by the proximity of France.

Currently, Priti Patel is enraged by the volume of people making the crossing in small boats. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is frustrated by Patel’s inability to stop the traffic. Tory MPs who told constituents that Brexit had secured the nation’s perimeter are alarmed to find that their boast was premature.

Britain alone cannot deal with migrations that are launched from Calais. The home secretary and the prime minister tried blaming French authorities for slack policing, but then realised the folly of antagonising a government whose help they badly need.

The problem is that borders have two sides and there are limits to what can be achieved by “taking back control” of just one of them. Also, Brexit ideologues were confused about water. They saw the ocean west of Britain as a maritime motorway for shipping goods and the much smaller sea on its south-eastern flank as a moat to keep out people. In 2018, Dominic Raab stunned a conference auditorium with the admission that he “hadn’t quite understood the full extent” of UK economic reliance on Dover-Calais trade.

Managing EU frontiers post-Brexit was always bound to be tricky. It is harder when relations with Paris are tetchy. Migration is just one point of tension. Fisheries access is another. Emmanuel Macron was affronted by his country’s exclusion from the recent UK-Australian-US (Aukus) security partnership deal.

Downing Street sees the French president as an enemy of Brexit who preaches Anglophobia in Brussels. It is true that Macron takes a hard line against anything that might undermine the single market or chip away at EU solidarity. That is because he recognises the European project as an amplifier of French power. Also, there is a presidential election next year in which the incumbent will face Eurosceptic challengers. He could do without a nuisance neighbour furnishing his rivals with positive anti-Brussels case studies.

Ministers talk about Macron’s posturing for a domestic audience with patronising indulgence, as if it is a uniquely foreign practice unknown in straight-talking Britain. Downing Street is reported to be planning a grand rapprochement once next year’s Elysée poll is out of the way. There is talk of a deep strategic partnership, building on the Lancaster House agreement that David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy signed in 2010.

That is a plausible ambition to the extent that western Europe’s two biggest military powers share long-term security interests that transcend any bickering over cod. Also, defence issues are primarily a nation-state concern, even for the most integrationist EU leaders.

The Lancaster House treaties were signed between two EU members. Brexit does not undo the logic of that partnership, but Johnson’s government makes life harder for itself by pretending that its foreign policy with continental capitals and its trading relationship, as mediated through Brussels, are separate things and scarcely related.

Lord Frost, Johnson’s Brexit minister, has been explicit on this point, describing a future relationship with the bloc as a patchwork of bilateral deals with member states. The foreign secretary, Liz Truss, does not appear to consider European relations part of her job at all (perhaps because Frost has bitten off that portion of the portfolio).

Denigration of EU relevance is a requirement of belief in Brexit. To accept that Macron’s pro-EU stance reflects a rational appraisal of his nation’s interests risks admitting that an equivalent dynamic once applied on this side of the Channel. After all, the two countries have so much in common. But that was the remainer argument (albeit one that was poorly articulated in the campaign).

So other reasons must be confected as to why relations with France have become so prickly. The leader of the House of Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, suggested that dialogue was uniquely tricky last month because “the French are always grumpy in October, the anniversaries of Trafalgar and Agincourt upset them”. Even if he was not being serious, it says something about the degradation of British political culture that seriousness is not a requirement when cabinet ministers intervene in delicate matters of foreign relations. No one on the French side has felt compelled to raise the Battle of Castillon.

The childish compulsion to reference medieval wars, Napoleon and the Third Reich is a way for Brexiters to deny contemporary economic and strategic reality of the European project. There is no need to build an analysis from modern facts or even recent history if the EU’s immutable character and secret agenda are encrypted in events that pre-date the Treaty of Rome.

The parochialism that masquerades as historical erudition is a chronic syndrome in Tory Euroscepticism. It is Johnson’s preferred idiom as a propagandist, not least because it excuses him from a duty to engage with detail. But it does not translate into practical government. It nurtures the fiction that Britain can have a foreign policy for old continental powers that avoids engaging with their modern interests as members of the EU. That is the core of the misunderstanding with France, and the relationship will not be fixed until it is resolved. The reality of 21st century Europe cannot be wished away any more than the Channel can be made wider.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline JohnnoWhite

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5784 on: November 24, 2021, 08:21:49 am »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/23/brexiters-france-eurosceptic-tories-britain-eu

For Brexiters who dreamed of taking back control, France is too close for comfort

Eurosceptic Tories, here’s the bad news: it’s a fiction that Britain can have a foreign policy fit for purpose without the EU


Considering that the width of the Channel does not change, it is surprising how often British politicians seem surprised by the proximity of France.

Currently, Priti Patel is enraged by the volume of people making the crossing in small boats. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is frustrated by Patel’s inability to stop the traffic. Tory MPs who told constituents that Brexit had secured the nation’s perimeter are alarmed to find that their boast was premature.

Britain alone cannot deal with migrations that are launched from Calais. The home secretary and the prime minister tried blaming French authorities for slack policing, but then realised the folly of antagonising a government whose help they badly need.

The problem is that borders have two sides and there are limits to what can be achieved by “taking back control” of just one of them. Also, Brexit ideologues were confused about water. They saw the ocean west of Britain as a maritime motorway for shipping goods and the much smaller sea on its south-eastern flank as a moat to keep out people. In 2018, Dominic Raab stunned a conference auditorium with the admission that he “hadn’t quite understood the full extent” of UK economic reliance on Dover-Calais trade.

Managing EU frontiers post-Brexit was always bound to be tricky. It is harder when relations with Paris are tetchy. Migration is just one point of tension. Fisheries access is another. Emmanuel Macron was affronted by his country’s exclusion from the recent UK-Australian-US (Aukus) security partnership deal.

Downing Street sees the French president as an enemy of Brexit who preaches Anglophobia in Brussels. It is true that Macron takes a hard line against anything that might undermine the single market or chip away at EU solidarity. That is because he recognises the European project as an amplifier of French power. Also, there is a presidential election next year in which the incumbent will face Eurosceptic challengers. He could do without a nuisance neighbour furnishing his rivals with positive anti-Brussels case studies.

Ministers talk about Macron’s posturing for a domestic audience with patronising indulgence, as if it is a uniquely foreign practice unknown in straight-talking Britain. Downing Street is reported to be planning a grand rapprochement once next year’s Elysée poll is out of the way. There is talk of a deep strategic partnership, building on the Lancaster House agreement that David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy signed in 2010.

That is a plausible ambition to the extent that western Europe’s two biggest military powers share long-term security interests that transcend any bickering over cod. Also, defence issues are primarily a nation-state concern, even for the most integrationist EU leaders.

The Lancaster House treaties were signed between two EU members. Brexit does not undo the logic of that partnership, but Johnson’s government makes life harder for itself by pretending that its foreign policy with continental capitals and its trading relationship, as mediated through Brussels, are separate things and scarcely related.

Lord Frost, Johnson’s Brexit minister, has been explicit on this point, describing a future relationship with the bloc as a patchwork of bilateral deals with member states. The foreign secretary, Liz Truss, does not appear to consider European relations part of her job at all (perhaps because Frost has bitten off that portion of the portfolio).

Denigration of EU relevance is a requirement of belief in Brexit. To accept that Macron’s pro-EU stance reflects a rational appraisal of his nation’s interests risks admitting that an equivalent dynamic once applied on this side of the Channel. After all, the two countries have so much in common. But that was the remainer argument (albeit one that was poorly articulated in the campaign).

So other reasons must be confected as to why relations with France have become so prickly. The leader of the House of Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, suggested that dialogue was uniquely tricky last month because “the French are always grumpy in October, the anniversaries of Trafalgar and Agincourt upset them”. Even if he was not being serious, it says something about the degradation of British political culture that seriousness is not a requirement when cabinet ministers intervene in delicate matters of foreign relations. No one on the French side has felt compelled to raise the Battle of Castillon.

The childish compulsion to reference medieval wars, Napoleon and the Third Reich is a way for Brexiters to deny contemporary economic and strategic reality of the European project. There is no need to build an analysis from modern facts or even recent history if the EU’s immutable character and secret agenda are encrypted in events that pre-date the Treaty of Rome.

The parochialism that masquerades as historical erudition is a chronic syndrome in Tory Euroscepticism. It is Johnson’s preferred idiom as a propagandist, not least because it excuses him from a duty to engage with detail. But it does not translate into practical government. It nurtures the fiction that Britain can have a foreign policy for old continental powers that avoids engaging with their modern interests as members of the EU. That is the core of the misunderstanding with France, and the relationship will not be fixed until it is resolved. The reality of 21st century Europe cannot be wished away any more than the Channel can be made wider.

This article is both an exemplary analysis of how disgracefully far astray from practical reality this Brexiteering brainwashing con has shepherded us and a critical reveal of the political and economic shambolics still pervading their"faux-patriotic" backs to the wall Little Englander agenda. I label the Tories' deliberate act of Union Jack-waving deception in order to protect their financial and political off-shore billionaire masters stashes from an EU tax to be an act of treachery against our PEOPLE on a scale unequalled in living memory. In former times, its consequences would have been an incitement to revolution.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5785 on: November 24, 2021, 08:51:12 am »
This article is both an exemplary analysis of how disgracefully far astray from practical reality this Brexiteering brainwashing con has shepherded us and a critical reveal of the political and economic shambolics still pervading their"faux-patriotic" backs to the wall Little Englander agenda. I label the Tories' deliberate act of Union Jack-waving deception in order to protect their financial and political off-shore billionaire masters stashes from an EU tax to be an act of treachery against our PEOPLE on a scale unequalled in living memory. In former times, its consequences would have been an incitement to revolution.

Not in this country it wouldn't  ;)

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5786 on: November 27, 2021, 11:19:49 am »

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5787 on: November 27, 2021, 12:11:41 pm »
Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5788 on: November 27, 2021, 01:38:06 pm »
Save the bacon Boris.

Joking aside this is awful.

https://news.sky.com/story/weve-run-out-of-alternatives-vets-carrying-out-pig-abortions-as-labour-crisis-continues-12479182
Would it be cynical to suggest they are angling for a lowering if welfare standards?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5789 on: November 27, 2021, 01:41:56 pm »
Would it be cynical to suggest they are angling for a lowering if welfare standards?

Main driver is no staff largely due to Brexit but who knows, timely anyway given Johnson’s ramblings about peppa the other day.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5791 on: December 5, 2021, 01:02:48 am »
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-economy-outperforms-rest-of-uk-as-region-prospers-under-protocol-according-to-ons-41101009.html

Quote
However, the ONS said the experimental data should be treated with some caution as they are “subject to a degree of uncertainty

London must be really fucked then if the data is "subject to a degree of uncertainty". I suppose its better to be top of a disputed pile than not at all...

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5792 on: December 5, 2021, 01:08:56 pm »
But they got the migrants to stop coming didn't they, so it was worth fucking the economy for, wasn't it?




Number of migrants crossing Channel to UK tops 1,000 in new daily record https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59257107



Nauseatingly, this turd keeps re-surfacing. What a piece of nasty shite he is and no-one of any conscience or nouse should ever allow him elbow room. A dead wrong 'un.
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5793 on: December 6, 2021, 11:14:23 am »
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5794 on: December 6, 2021, 02:10:03 pm »
They can stick their racist Brexit up their arse. I hope it does fail spectacularly & they get the blame they deserve. It’s such a backwards move at the worst possible time for it.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5795 on: December 6, 2021, 02:33:36 pm »
"If Brexit fails, it's Remainers' fault."

Of course. Because the last I checked, the country was being run by Remainers.  ::)
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5796 on: December 6, 2021, 02:36:07 pm »


Fucking c*nts. Go fuck yourselves you racist inbred pieces of shite.

Jurgen, you made us laugh, you made us cry, you made Liverpool a bastion of invincibilty, now leave us on a high - YNWA

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5797 on: December 6, 2021, 03:55:50 pm »
"If Brexit fails, it's Remainers' fault."

Of course. Because the last I checked, the country was being run by Remainers.  ::)

As I like to say on here often: The Tories - always in charge, somehow never their fault.
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5798 on: December 6, 2021, 04:39:51 pm »
I didn't click through. Is it an admittance though that brexit is failing?
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #5799 on: December 6, 2021, 04:41:42 pm »
As I like to say on here often: The Tories - always in charge, somehow never their fault.


A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"