Topic: Elections in Europe

[Garrus]

Oh dear. If he wins then will somebody please think of the artists, intellectuals, bankers, scientists and cultural superiors. Who will give them a home next?

It's not as simple as that though, is it? What is the incentive for anyone to be paid above the said amount? The loss in tax revenue alone will dwarf any benefits this scheme would provide. Not to mention other more permanent consequences. It is absolutely unworkable.

Finland has a maximum possible tax rate of around 60%.

[Garrus]

I wonder where he is getting the support from? In a way I hope that he is competing for the 'F-U Establishment' and 'F-U Europe' protest voters with the FN. That could be a good thing. It could shrink the FN tent. Melanchon went on the attack against LePen in the last debate.

I think he'll eat into the vote that's been vacated by Hamon's candidacy. Also, yes, there must be a subset of FN voters who have strong economically protectionist views for whom Melenchon would be basically Le Pen without the nastiness.

[Giono]

I think he'll eat into the vote that's been vacated by Hamon's candidacy. Also, yes, there must be a subset of FN voters who have strong economically protectionist views for whom Melenchon would be basically Le Pen without the nastiness.

But Hamon is on the left side of the Socialist party. I would figure that they would overlap constituencies somewhat. I guess they differ when it comes to Europe with Hamon being pro-EU.

But Melanchon being anti-EU with pro-working class policies could eat a bit into the FM. Let`s hope.

[Garrus]

I figured since Hamon does not have much of a chance, some of his supporters could jump on the Melenchon bandwagon.

He is also anti-NATO and pro-Russia, not much unlike FN 

[Libertine]

It's all a bit depressing look at the percentage of the electorate supporting such extreme positions - yes you can say that it's down to a failure of the mainstream parties, but voters swallowing such simplistics promises (blame everything on immigrants, Europe, big businees, the "elite" etc) doesn't bode well for democracy.

For those closest to the election in France - is the closeness of some of the contestants (Le Pen in particular) to Putin not a major issue? I would have thought effectively being a puppet for a foreign regime, and a despicable authoritarian one at that, would be an easy line of attack for their opponents.

Europe Elects hasn't tweeted for days - I'm having serious polling data withdrawal symptons.....

[killer-heels]

It's not as simple as that though, is it? What is the incentive for anyone to be paid above the said amount? The loss in tax revenue alone will dwarf any benefits this scheme would provide. Not to mention other more permanent consequences. It is absolutely unworkable.

Finland has a maximum possible tax rate of around 60%.

The tax regime is clearly mad but I do find it a bit funny how there is some massive clamouring by artists, technology businesses, scientists, bankers etc. to come out and complain about their status and feel like they have been 'rejected' since Brexit. No doubt if a hard left candidate wins in France then they will moan buckets again.

You had a technology firm yesterday saying they wouldnt start now in Britain due to the inability now to source talent and you had Macron coming to London creating a pitch and a home for these poor souls.

As if countries are ever going to turn down these skilled and creative people. Whilst there are loads of them moaning in the media about their difficulties its the poorer migrants who are coming here for a better life that will be turned away.

[Zimagic]

Oh dear. If he wins then will somebody please think of the artists, intellectuals, bankers, scientists and cultural superiors. Who will give them a home next?

Hang on, you'd be happy at capping your income at GBP £2,030.96 per month including bonuses & dividends while the government also persues a strategy highly likely to increase the cost of living ?

[BoRed]

Hang on, you'd be happy at capping your income at GBP £2,030.96 per month including bonuses & dividends while the government also persues a strategy highly likely to increase the cost of living ?

33,000 EUR is nearly £28,000, not £2,000.

[killer-heels]

Hang on, you'd be happy at capping your income at GBP £2,030.96 per month including bonuses & dividends while the government also persues a strategy highly likely to increase the cost of living ?

Clearly that tax is mad but my issues are not against that. It irked me a bit that Macron came to London and then rallied on a platform to plead with that specific group to leave the UK and come to France because it apparently will love everything that scientists and bankers have to offer.

[Garrus]

Well it makes sense for Macron to appeal to people who are set to be disadvantaged by Brexit to bring their investment and jobs to his country.

[killer-heels]

Well it makes sense for Macron to appeal to people who are set to be disadvantaged by Brexit to bring their investment and jobs to his country.

Of course it does. But of course he only wants a certain type of immigrant. It seems the ones who are shouting the loudest are the ones least to be affected. Thats politics in a nutshell.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Thought it was anything above 33k a month was taxed at 90%?

Anyway if it does happen PSG are fucked, so one positive there, we may get draxler after all.

[Garrus]

Of course it does. But of course he only wants a certain type of immigrant. It seems the ones who are shouting the loudest are the ones least to be affected. Thats politics in a nutshell.

He is fairly liberal on immigration. But to be fair, what you say about immigration is applicable to most countries in the world.  You've either got a load of dosh, have skills that are in shortage or are seeking asylum/fleeing persecution. No one ever really appeals to the ones in the middle.

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Most recent poll on Le Monde shows a very tight race.
Macron 22% slightly declining
Le Pen at 22% slightly declining
Melenchon at 20% and gaining ground
Fillon at 19%, slightly improving

The official socialist candidate Hamon is down at 7.5%. He's from the left of the party, but he really hasn't been able to show his core base why he should be preferred over the more charismatic (not that I agree with the vast majority of his policies) Melenchon, and the more moderate wing of the party has moved in bulk towards Macron.

[B0151?]

It's gonna be Fillon and Le Pen after all isn't it?

[TheShanklyGates]

It's gonna be Fillon and Le Pen after all isn't it?

Got a horrible feeling it's going that way.

[cloggypop]

French judges have asked for far-right leader Marine Le Pen’s parliamentary immunity to be lifted, the latest setback in a presidential election campaign in which she is no longer assured of reaching the decisive second round.

The judges are investigating the alleged misuse of European Union funds by Ms Le Pen, a member of the European Parliament, to pay for party assistants. Their request was signed on 29 March but only revealed on Friday. A source confirmed it to Reuters.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/french-election-marine-le-pen-judges-ask-parliamentary-immunity-lifted-misuse-eu-funds-a7684431.html

[Zimagic]

Clearly that tax is mad but my issues are not against that. It irked me a bit that Macron came to London and then rallied on a platform to plead with that specific group to leave the UK and come to France because it apparently will love everything that scientists and bankers have to offer.

Yeah, mistranslated that a little. It's €33k per month not anually. Sorry guys.

[dalarr]

Turkey votes on the referendum today to give Mr. Erdogan sweeping new powers. I haven't read enough in detail about the referendum to have a strong opinion on it, but I don't trust him. And every time a leader wants to concentrate power, I get worried.
I grew up around many Turks and they always came across as very nationalist. I can imagine many Turks (and Erdogan) longing for the jolly good old days of the Ottoman Empire.

[filopastry]

Turkey votes on the referendum today to give Mr. Erdogan sweeping new powers. I haven't read enough in detail about the referendum to have a strong opinion on it, but I don't trust him. And every time a leader wants to concentrate power, I get worried.
I grew up around many Turks and they always came across as very nationalist. I can imagine many Turks (and Erdogan) longing for the jolly good old days of the Ottoman Empire.

They are now projecting a narrow win for Erdogan's "reforms" based on 90% of the vote being counted.

I should find it hard to believe that so many British voters during the Brexit campaign appeared to believe that Turkey was about to imminently join the EU, but it wasn't even close to being the biggest lie told during that campaign.

[stoa]

They are now projecting a narrow win for Erdogan's "reforms" based on 90% of the vote being counted.

Which once again confirms that people in general are just idiots...

[killer-heels]

Why would you vote to give a person even more power? Looks like over 50% of the people of Turkey are idiots.

[Trev20]

They are now projecting a narrow win for Erdogan's "reforms" based on 90% of the vote being counted.

I should find it hard to believe that so many British voters during the Brexit campaign appeared to believe that Turkey was about to imminently join the EU, but it wasn't even close to being the biggest lie told during that campaign.

There is more chance of the EU putting sanctions on Turkey as opposed to making it a member of the Union.

[Trev20]

Victory confirmed for Erdogan in Turkey.

[redbyrdz]

There is more chance of the EU putting sanctions on Turkey as opposed to making it a member of the Union.

If Erdogan re-introduces the death penalty, as he has promised, the EU will put an immediate stop to any further talks of Turkey joining.

[Trev20]

If Erdogan re-introduces the death penalty, as he has promised, the EU will put an immediate stop to any further talks of Turkey joining.

Yes mate.

Plenty of EU Ministers already want to cancel talks of Turkey joining the Union, even before the result today.

[dalarr]

As was said by another poster, who the hell would vote to give a person even more power? Have these people never read a history book? Seems like blind nationalism. No rational human being could vote yes here.

[Libertine]

As was said by another poster, who the hell would vote to give a person even more power? Have these people never read a history book? Seems like blind nationalism. No rational human being could vote yes here.

Seems like a 51-48 vote, supported mostly by the old, conservative and uneducated.

Plus ca change.....

[filopastry]

As was said by another poster, who the hell would vote to give a person even more power? Have these people never read a history book? Seems like blind nationalism. No rational human being could vote yes here.

Erdogan basically controls most of the media there now, so I doubt the public are exactly getting an unbiased view of what is being proposed

[Xabi Gerrard]

What the hell is going on in the world right now? Why are so many people actually choosing extremism? Brexit, Trump, now this ridiculous decision. Beggars belief. It's a slippery slope the world's headed in.

Erdogan basically controls most of the media there now, so I doubt the public are exactly getting an unbiased view of what is being proposed

I used to think this was the case whenever I'd hear of things like this. But witnessing it first hand with Brexit, it feels there's more to it than people being spoon fed just one side of the argument. People actually want this shit and no amount of reasoning or exposure to the other side will dissuade them. I think there are underlying reasons why which go way deeper than one side controlling the media, I just dont know what they are.

[Garrus]

It's almost as if people are hoping for a benevolent dictator.

It's a worrying trend where people are being seduced by these strongman leaders and have absolute blind devotion towards them. As long as it's not them or their family suffering the consequences, fuck everyone else.

[GreatEx]

What the hell is going on in the world right now? Why are so many people actually choosing extremism? Brexit, Trump, now this ridiculous decision. Beggars belief. It's a slippery slope the world's headed in.

I used to think this was the case whenever I'd hear of things like this. But witnessing it first hand with Brexit, it feels there's more to it than people being spoon fed just one side of the argument. People actually want this shit and no amount of reasoning or exposure to the other side will dissuade them. I think there are underlying reasons why which go way deeper than one side controlling the media, I just dont know what they are.

It's probably more to do with the internet creating echo chambers and misinformation to capitalise on individual prejudices, than the mainstream media being controledl by one side or the other. Although it must be said, many news sources are becoming increasingly partisan in an effort to win back customers from cyberspace.

And yes, it is remarkable the choices people are making. Above all else, I cannot understand the increasing wave of support for the disbandment of the European Union. Perhaps it's because the EU has been so effective that people have forgotten what a war-torn mess the continent has been for most of its existence, and in their complacency they're falling back into all the old traps. Unlike the US, Europeans can't point to a failing education system for their bizarre choices. Perhaps the human race really is wired for self-destruction.

France will be the big one. Sadly, developments in Turkey don't surprise me at all; given the prejudicial rhetoric against them by Europeans, it's no surprise they've said fuck EU; and given the instability in neighbouring countries, it's no surprise they've been seduced by the "strong leader" schtick. Austria was a lucky near-miss, and then the Netherlands gave hope that the insane lurch to racist nationalism was losing steam, and although the French system should keep the horrible Le Pen family from seizing ultimate power, I won't breathe easy until it's done. The other scary thing about FN is that they are very big with the young, so it's not like Brexit and Trump where it's the older generation fucking it up and hopefully the next generation can repair it. In any case, this needs to stop with France, otherwise I honestly believe we're headed for another global war in the next 30 years.

[Giono]

What the hell is going on in the world right now? Why are so many people actually choosing extremism? Brexit, Trump, now this ridiculous decision. Beggars belief. It's a slippery slope the world's headed in.

I used to think this was the case whenever I'd hear of things like this. But witnessing it first hand with Brexit, it feels there's more to it than people being spoon fed just one side of the argument. People actually want this shit and no amount of reasoning or exposure to the other side will dissuade them. I think there are underlying reasons why which go way deeper than one side controlling the media, I just dont know what they are.

In my opinion it is the speed of technological change as well as the forces that it has unleashed like globalisation of industry, culture and capital.


When I see "make America great again", I hear "stop this train I want to get off".

[Trev20]

Erdogan basically controls most of the media there now, so I doubt the public are exactly getting an unbiased view of what is being proposed

A large proportion of No campaigners handing out leaflets on the street etc were arrested for 'insigting social unrest'.

What a mess.

[Johnny B. Goode]

Melenchon is stealing votes from everyone except Fillon, who's gaining some serious ground.

Yep. It'll be Fillon vs Le Pen in the second round. You just know it. Perfect storm for that nazi sympathiser c*nt.

[Libertine]

Melenchon is stealing votes from everyone except Fillon, who's gaining some serious ground.

Yep. It'll be Fillon vs Le Pen in the second round. You just know it. Perfect storm for that nazi sympathiser c*nt.

Weeks/months of looking like a Macron/Le Pen run-off - grim that she would make it but at least the outcome would have been good.

Now? Fuck knows what's going to happen. On the plus side, Le Pen could be eliminated and the narrowing polls could at least remove any complacency in Macron voters or centrists/moderates thinking of voting for someone else.

On the negative side, could have a Putin puppet run-off and the disaster that would follow. How is Fillon still gaining support? Just because it's been a few weeks since the last scandal broke? 

Latest poll from Terrain - first to have Le Pen fail to make the run-off:

[BoRed]

Why do you think Melenchon is a Putin puppet?

[killer-heels]

Why do you think Melenchon is a Putin puppet?

He maybe isnt a puppet but he wants better relations with Russia (which makes sense). But he wants France to quit NATO and quit the EU.

[Libertine]

Why do you think Melenchon is a Putin puppet?

Mélenchon wants to quit NATO, the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and block European trade treaties with the United States and Canada. He promises a French referendum on whether to stick with the reworked EU he is pledging to negotiate or leave the bloc altogether.

Critics have slammed Mélenchon as soft on Russian President Vladimir Putin’s expansionism, tending as the Frenchman does to view Russia as a bulwark against US imperialism. “It’s the moment to negotiate borders,” Mélenchon said during one televised debate. “We must discuss all borders. For example, the border between Russia and Ukraine, is it at the extremity of Crimea or before?” he asked, raising the ire of an incredulous Benoît Hamon, the Socialist candidate, in particular.

http://www.france24.com/en/20170413-france-melenchon-far-leftist-giving-presidential-election-frontrunners-run-money

Putin would be delighted with either Le Pen or Melenchon - a pro-Russian/Putin voice in the French presidency and a weaker Europe.

[BoRed]

Thanks. I know next to nothing about him, no idea why he's gaining popularity. Very worrying if nearly half the voters are voting for an anti-EU candidate, even if, in his case, that may not be the primary reason for voting for him.