Author Topic: FSG (*)  (Read 832779 times)

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7360 on: March 28, 2017, 04:21:03 pm »
The  FSG issue about the Main Stand needing to be completed before they consider the ARE, is frankly pretty poor.

They have known for almost a year now the level of sales for corporate in the MS and whether there was saturation. In fact no one expects the ARE to have a significant corporate element to it for those reasons. They know that.

The excuse is all about the fact that they are being challenged to build a STH/GA improved stand and the return on investment does not suit FSG over the period needed.

Even that is a red herring though - if the stand improvement cost £70m for an extra 6,000 to 8,000 seats and the return was going to take 15 years then if they decided to sell LFC sometime before then the value of the Club is simply what the Club would be worth with a fully paid for stadium in 15 years time, less whatever was left to pay off depending when they sold before the end of the 15 years. It would simply be a valuation issue - and they would leave the balance of the funding to be sorted by the new buyers.

To further challenge them - in the next five years safe standing will return and this will allow a further look at capacity and configuration of stands - again having a cost (but not necessarily an associated increased income stream).

You can keep excuses coming for year after year.
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Offline Jookie

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7361 on: March 28, 2017, 04:44:13 pm »
I don't think a locally based CEO (which we've had in Ayre) would replace what a Barwick (advice on football business issues) or ex-player/people with long term association with the club (general advisory) could offer. They'd be there to bounce ideas off and given their previous experiences would be able to offer advice on which way to proceed. That doesn't mean you'd follow it, but it would be good to bounce ideas off.

Don't forget Gordon has seen his role both in FSG (his ownership has gone over the 10% mark) and LFC vastly increased in the last few years, and he's been pictured loads of times in Liverpool and around Klopp and other people at the club. So hopefully that's going someway to increasing the link across the pond.

Are you suggesting that Barwick type figure or ex-players would offer advice on sporting and/or business matters?

In terms of sporting decisions, that should be covered by Klopp and his coaching and technical staff (led by Michael Edwards). Additional minds to the sporting brains trust wouldn't be what I'd do.

If it's adding advice on financial or business matters, then I'd need convincing that ex-players are the way to go. Maybe we could groom an ex-player to take a significant business role in the long run.

A strong senior management team based in Liverpool with the autonomy to make decisions without significant input form FSG is what I would like to see. At the moment we have some staff based in Liverpool but the main decision makers based in London and Boston. It's leading to poor decisions in some instances.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7362 on: March 28, 2017, 05:09:14 pm »
Are you suggesting that Barwick type figure or ex-players would offer advice on sporting and/or business matters?

In terms of sporting decisions, that should be covered by Klopp and his coaching and technical staff (led by Michael Edwards). Additional minds to the sporting brains trust wouldn't be what I'd do.

If it's adding advice on financial or business matters, then I'd need convincing that ex-players are the way to go. Maybe we could groom an ex-player to take a significant business role in the long run.

No a Barwick type would lend his knowledge and past experience on the business/footballing business side of things. We don't necessarily need someone with past footballing experience in that CEO role, however I don't see why having someone around in an advisory role who does have that experience would be a bad thing.

The ex-players and those long associated with the club and local area wouldn't be for actual business advice, but more sounding ideas off for what the club may be looking to do to gauge reaction from those who know the fans and local area more than them.

Quote
A strong senior management team based in Liverpool with the autonomy to make decisions without significant input form FSG is what I would like to see. At the moment we have some staff based in Liverpool but the main decision makers based in London and Boston. It's leading to poor decisions in some instances.

Until Ayre left the main man and most of the suits (save for the commercial arm) were Liverpool based, with FSG stateside obviously. Ayre ran things day to day and he would certainly not have been micromanaged from the US.

Offline Graham Smith

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7363 on: March 28, 2017, 05:34:49 pm »
LFC are massively micro-managed from Boston.

I have first hand experience of that. It is one of the key weaknesses of their business model. They lose touch with Liverpool as a city, the matchgoing support and what the Club is all about. Their failure to engage with the city has been one of the reasons they have got so many thing wrong.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7364 on: March 28, 2017, 05:56:01 pm »
LFC are massively micro-managed from Boston.

I have first hand experience of that. It is one of the key weaknesses of their business model. They lose touch with Liverpool as a city, the matchgoing support and what the Club is all about. Their failure to engage with the city has been one of the reasons they have got so many thing wrong.

Then will be interesting how the new guy takes to that given he is a much bigger hitter.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7365 on: March 28, 2017, 06:17:30 pm »
Lallana injury more annoying because the squad is a disgrace. Even with everyone fit the bench is weak, a few injuries and it looks like what you'd expect Sunderland or Hull's bench to be. If that costs us top 4 then the quality depth won't be addressed so a vicious circle.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7366 on: March 28, 2017, 06:21:05 pm »
Paul Joyce recent quotes are interesting

Offline Zoomers

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7367 on: March 28, 2017, 06:21:46 pm »
Paul Joyce recent quotes are interesting

Juicy stuff.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7368 on: March 28, 2017, 06:22:36 pm »
Paul Joyce recent quotes are interesting

Which are?

Offline Caston

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« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 06:24:51 pm by Caston »

Offline Lynndenberries

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7370 on: March 28, 2017, 06:34:32 pm »
"FSG will give Klopp the largest transfer kitty in the club's history this summer.

There's no definitive figure but it is set to be a vast amount, the penny has dropped that proven players need to be recruited.

This is the summer Klopp and FSG have decided to try to compete with the elite again."

My biggest question would be why now? It also will be interesting to see how big of an impact Champions League qualification has on the amount of money the club decide to spend.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7371 on: March 28, 2017, 06:44:35 pm »
"FSG will give Klopp the largest transfer kitty in the club's history this summer.

There's no definitive figure but it is set to be a vast amount, the penny has dropped that proven players need to be recruited.

This is the summer Klopp and FSG have decided to try to compete with the elite again."

My biggest question would be why now? It also will be interesting to see how big of an impact Champions League qualification has on the amount of money the club decide to spend.

I think Klopp underestimated what he needed last summer, through no fault of his own, so we should see some progress if he's given money and has a plan.

Offline cdav

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7372 on: March 28, 2017, 06:45:34 pm »
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/competing-in-the-transfer-market-is-liverpools-biggest-challenge-7xvqwwhpw

@AnfieldHQ has some quotes from the article

Actions will speak much louder than words but at least that is an encouraging change of stance in trying for proven players.

I think it was always going to be our biggest ever budget- I mean what is our highest ever net spend previously, about £40m? The most important thing is how it compares to our rivals- if we get Champions League we will be competing with teams who have spent £120-150m net. We need to be pushing up to that level with our need for both quality and quantity, whilst keeping the nucleus of this team together.

If, and it is a big if, we can have a good summer window (with a big injection of talent) and with the announcement of the new training groud- plus a potential announcement on the ARE- I think that would go a long way to placating some of the negative views and show progress.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7373 on: March 28, 2017, 06:45:46 pm »
Getting that CL place would be huge, I'm sure decent money would be available regardless but a situation where the other 5 get a CL place and we are the ones left out while trying to fight them and every other big club in the transfer market would be a nightmare.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7374 on: March 28, 2017, 06:46:28 pm »
It is nice that the club leaked that we will be targeting more proven players, but the club put an asterisk next to the likes of VVD, Keita & Brandt saying competition is going to be fierce instead of trying to sell us that the likes of Goetze or Mkhitaryan are locked in to come and then the reality hits that they have no interest in joining.
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Offline sms1986

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7375 on: March 28, 2017, 06:48:28 pm »
the other 5 get a CL place

That situation is very unlikely to happen, though.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7376 on: March 28, 2017, 06:54:44 pm »
Then will be interesting how the new guy takes to that given he is a much bigger hitter.

Hopefully Peter Moore will be a game changer (forgive the pun) but someone with a proven track record in American business and locally born should provide the local power base, depending on how much power is delegated to him from Boston.

The club now have a business big hitter as CEO and a world class manager but if there is no real financial support we really are in the last chance saloon.

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7377 on: March 28, 2017, 06:54:53 pm »
This upcoming summer's budget was always gonna be massive as we didn't spend a penny last two transfer windows not to mention if we can add CL money to it. Money available was never the problem though, it was manager's decision not to spend all of it and it'll be his decision again what to do with all the money that will be available to him in the summer.

I think Klopp intentionally kept the squad thin because most managers do that when they're not in Europe but we'll definitely have an additional competition next season which makes me believe Klopp will bring in a good couple of players for that reason and since he'll be looking only at those who are good enough to improve us it's safe to say all those are probably gonna be boss players just like the players he bought last summer.

Offline amirani

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7378 on: March 28, 2017, 06:55:33 pm »
The top quality players want high wages. are FSG willing to break the current wage structure?

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7379 on: March 28, 2017, 07:04:00 pm »
I think Klopp underestimated what he needed last summer, through no fault of his own, so we should see some progress if he's given money and has a plan.

I don't think he undestimated so much as he just didn't want to be in a situation bringing in 10 new players and bedding them all in.

Cos quite frankly, he could have brought 10 in, that is how much changes needed to be made to the bloated, and lacking in quality squad he took over.

 

Offline BOBSCOUSE

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7380 on: March 28, 2017, 07:14:06 pm »
"FSG will give Klopp the largest transfer kitty in the club's history this summer.

There's no definitive figure but it is set to be a vast amount, the penny has dropped that proven players need to be recruited.

This is the summer Klopp and FSG have decided to try to compete with the elite again."


Let's go full Everton with this one :-)

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Offline lamonti

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7381 on: March 28, 2017, 07:29:57 pm »
I don't think he undestimated so much as he just didn't want to be in a situation bringing in 10 new players and bedding them all in.

Cos quite frankly, he could have brought 10 in, that is how much changes needed to be made to the bloated, and lacking in quality squad he took over.
 

Ha, our squad manages to be described as both bloated and dangerously thin on different days of the week.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7382 on: March 28, 2017, 07:33:23 pm »
Ha, our squad manages to be described as both bloated and dangerously thin on different days of the week.

I was clearly talking about the squad Kloppo took over, which was bloated, a lot of those players went in the summer. It's still lacking in quality though, but not as bloated as it was!

and to be honest, the squad can still be thin, even if it's got lots of players in it, that's was our problem under Rodgers and 3 or 4 years before that, far too many players brought in, but not enough quality.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 07:35:01 pm by Die Nullfünfer »

Offline simesy

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7383 on: March 28, 2017, 07:37:51 pm »
Maybe klopp needed to all this time to assess the squad and improve existing players first and now his next targets are not squad players but first team starters. That's going to cost a lot of money especially in todays market.
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Offline DangerScouse

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7384 on: March 28, 2017, 07:51:23 pm »
Great to hear, exactly what's needed and what many of us were hoping for. Here's hoping we can land our top targets.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7385 on: March 28, 2017, 08:00:29 pm »
Great to hear, exactly what's needed and what many of us were hoping for. Here's hoping we can land our top targets.

If it's true we're now looking to spend big on proven players there are a lot of posters on here that went to extreme lengths to argue that the manager hates that's idea, hates transfers and wants to develop what we have at the exclusion of spending that will have to reasses.
It's a medium level of bonkers that our PR has gone from 'we won't play the money game we can buy cheap and coach' to 'we're going to spend big watch this space'
God knows

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7386 on: March 28, 2017, 08:09:46 pm »
Good signs. But it's more about spending on the right players. I hope because of pressure FSG dont go and blow it all on someone like Redmond and say told you we'd spend. Rather spend nothing then buy average players.
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Offline DangerScouse

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7387 on: March 28, 2017, 08:12:11 pm »
Good signs. But it's more about spending on the right players. I hope because of pressure FSG dont go and blow it all on someone like Redmond and say told you we'd spend. Rather spend nothing then buy average players.

If true, it'll be players Klopp wants. Can't really argue with that unless we miss out on our top targets which has been a common theme in recent seasons.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7388 on: March 28, 2017, 08:22:50 pm »
If true, it'll be players Klopp wants. Can't really argue with that unless we miss out on our top targets which has been a common theme in recent seasons.

Klopps choice of course. But still reckon we'll end up with Keane and Redmond. Accepted that already, not getting my hopes up like the last 5 years. Just not worth the disappointment.
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Offline Dim Glas

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7389 on: March 28, 2017, 08:25:10 pm »
who's Redmond? Sorry, I don't really keep up with the transfer gossip, and it seems I also don't keep up with players in the league, as I have no clue who that is  ;D

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7390 on: March 28, 2017, 08:36:04 pm »
who's Redmond? Sorry, I don't really keep up with the transfer gossip, and it seems I also don't keep up with players in the league, as I have no clue who that is  ;D
A winger who plays for Southampton, will evidently be linked to us because of who he plays for.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7391 on: March 28, 2017, 08:38:51 pm »
A winger who plays for Southampton, will evidently be linked to us because of who he plays for.

oh right Nathan Redmond, I should have guessed, for some reason I thought he was a lot older than he is so didn't twig  :D

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7392 on: March 28, 2017, 11:53:40 pm »
LFC are massively micro-managed from Boston.

I have first hand experience of that. It is one of the key weaknesses of their business model. They lose touch with Liverpool as a city, the matchgoing support and what the Club is all about. Their failure to engage with the city has been one of the reasons they have got so many thing wrong.

I know we disagree on a lot of your concerns, but this is one point I completely agree with. FSG's power structure is all in Boston and the communication disasters it has caused needs to be fixed. I'm not sure Edwards is the right man for that job.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7393 on: March 29, 2017, 01:22:24 am »
I know we disagree on a lot of your concerns, but this is one point I completely agree with. FSG's power structure is all in Boston and the communication disasters it has caused needs to be fixed. I'm not sure Edwards is the right man for that job.
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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7394 on: March 29, 2017, 01:27:12 am »
If it's true we're now looking to spend big on proven players there are a lot of posters on here that went to extreme lengths to argue that the manager hates that's idea, hates transfers and wants to develop what we have at the exclusion of spending that will have to reasses.
It's a medium level of bonkers that our PR has gone from 'we won't play the money game we can buy cheap and coach' to 'we're going to spend big watch this space'
God knows


Nope,  i think most people were saying klopp wont buy anyone he doessnt want...he wont spend big for the sake of it....mane proves he will spend if the player is the wanted one and available.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7395 on: March 29, 2017, 02:55:59 am »
Two to three players who are 30m plus, one 50m plus player and keep Coutinho. Do it FSG.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7396 on: March 29, 2017, 04:36:58 am »
A big spending year would make sense this summer, especially if we manage to get a Champions League place. We've underspent in the last two or three windows at a time when big TV money is kicking in and we've cut the squad and got rid (or will be getting rid) of some of the highest earners. If we do get into the CL I'd expect something like £100m to £150m in buys (offset by sales like Sakho and Sturridge). Hopefully the club has learned and we'll be buying a relative few top notch players for precise positions rather than rolling the dice on prospects who need a couple of years to bed in.

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7397 on: March 29, 2017, 05:17:39 am »
If it's true we're now looking to spend big on proven players there are a lot of posters on here that went to extreme lengths to argue that the manager hates that's idea, hates transfers and wants to develop what we have at the exclusion of spending that will have to reasses.
It's a medium level of bonkers that our PR has gone from 'we won't play the money game we can buy cheap and coach' to 'we're going to spend big watch this space'
God knows
Bit of hyperbole there...No one argued that at all. It was mentioned he has a good track record bringing up youth players and finding gems but that doesn't mean he hates transfers or is against a sizeable signing. But the main argument was that Klopp values the idea of value for money for the club and players with the attitude to come here not just for high wages e.g. not paying overs and going for Teixeira at 50mil or like he said for Pogba 90m. Why would you pay fees like 70m+ for someone unless you are so rich that the risk doesn't matter e.g. our club can't really afford to sign an Angel Di Maria for 70m+ and high wages then have him fail and sold on for half the price next season or someone that expensive e.g. Bale could get regularly injured and become the next Sturridge.

Is it not common sense for our club when we live by our own means and don't/can't rely on the type of money that came into Man City and Chelsea initially? We shouldn't get "mugged" on deals thereby creating a long term problem where selling clubs see us paying massively over inflated fees (beyond the EPL norm) and therefore demand more inflated fees in the future which is what happens to the likes of Man City and PSG. Furthermore we did actually buy some good 1st team players worth a sizeable amount like Mane and Gini but that was all off-set by selling our unwanted players for good fees which we thought we could afford to do because we had less competitions but some posters took a big exception to that citing it as evidence FSG is not backing the manager, when he has said the opposite. Having the likes Benteke, Allen, Skrtel or Ibe unhappy and not match fit having been sat on the bench for 5 months and not getting into the matchday squads was not going to help us much in January when the whole squad was devoid of confidence and form. Not to mention players want to leave (or avoid joining) if they know their playing time will be limited, Chelsea for example had players like Ivanovic and Begovic wanting to leave their club midseason despite most likely going to win the EPL and they even let Ivanovic and Oscar go midseason to make money on the latter.

There were a lot of people previously unhappy about us paying overs for players but now want the club to pay overs. There were people unhappy we were selling players for low fees then when we sell them for higher there is a complaint there was no net spend without looking at the context of being in less competitions and allowing youth players a chance/pathway to get a few games to see what they're made of. You can't win...

Now seeing the current situation in context. Next season we will have European football most likely so our squad needs to expand instead of being trimmed like at the end of last season so it is reasonable to expect good investment into the squad especially considering we didn't spend in the last windows so the transfer kitty will be large. But don't expect 70m+ signings realistically because those types of players are very very unlikely to join our team e.g. Griezmann. Our ability to attract the top end targets will be further hampered if we don't make CL. So the reality is we will be looking to spend mainly for 4-5 players in the 20-50mil bracket (which is actually what all the top EPL players have cost their clubs in the past, not more, think Hazard, Costa, Sanchez, Mane, Kante, etc)  - hopefully say at least 2-3 of them can become genuine 1st teamers and the others are good enough to challenge to be in the 1st team. We don't really need to replace squad players unless they demand to leave for more playing time - Lucas being a likely example. All the noises are pointing to us having a sizeable transfer kitty, obviously with no set amount. What we spend depends on the targets that want to come here that we actually want. Every poster in this thread regardless of which side they appear to be arguing on will be disappointed if a sizeable amount of money isn't spent in the next window. But the problem is too many posters speculating they aren't backing the manager without looking at the blatantly obvious context. Now all we should do with regards to this issue is wait and see what happens in the summer window. There is so little point speculating and spreading the negativity here.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7398 on: March 29, 2017, 08:01:59 am »
If it's true we're now looking to spend big on proven players there are a lot of posters on here that went to extreme lengths to argue that the manager hates that's idea, hates transfers and wants to develop what we have at the exclusion of spending that will have to reasses.
It's a medium level of bonkers that our PR has gone from 'we won't play the money game we can buy cheap and coach' to 'we're going to spend big watch this space'
God knows

Eurgh.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline WillG.LFC

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Re: FSG (*)
« Reply #7399 on: March 29, 2017, 08:42:30 am »
If it's true we're now looking to spend big on proven playersthere are a lot of posters on here that went to extreme lengths to argue that the manager hates that's idea, hates transfers and wants to develop what we have at the exclusion of spending that will have to reasses.
It's a medium level of bonkers that our PR has gone from 'we won't play the money game we can buy cheap and coach' to 'we're going to spend big watch this space'
God knows
might be the same people who said he may not be spending in jan so he has more to spend in the summer. If we get a large transfer fund that pushes us on, will those demanding a purchase this january admit they were wrong? pointless judging the owners until we see their actions, said earlier in here the jan window will be judged after this summer not in Feb.