Topic: Harry Maguire considering his options thread

[ScouserAtHeart]

What I don't understand is how Woodward is still there. I mean, the entire football world knows he's completely incompetent and we're all making fun of United for it. Surely the Glazers are aware of this? They must see that Woodward is effectively the laughing stock of the PL?

I know they're still making money and he's just sorted out this nonsense LEGO partnership, but still. The Glazers aren't stupid, I'm sure they're aware that it'll be easier for them to make more money if United are successful on the pitch. It just doesn't make sense to me that they're continuing to employ someone that the entire football world can see is clueless.

Having said that, I personally think they should give him a lifetime contract 

Their stock price went up like 30%. He's not going anywhere

[Ghost Town]

Wonder what Simply Red makes of the goings on over there.

They're thinking how strange the change, from major to minor

[Sharado]

What I don't understand is how Woodward is still there. I mean, the entire football world knows he's completely incompetent and we're all making fun of United for it. Surely the Glazers are aware of this? They must see that Woodward is effectively the laughing stock of the PL?

I know they're still making money and he's just sorted out this nonsense LEGO partnership, but still. The Glazers aren't stupid, I'm sure they're aware that it'll be easier for them to make more money if United are successful on the pitch. It just doesn't make sense to me that they're continuing to employ someone that the entire football world can see is clueless.

Having said that, I personally think they should give him a lifetime contract 

Alan covered this, and I've tried too but just get on alan's quote below:

"A combination of Manchester United's global fame and the Premier League's allure to broadcasters mean United can make money regardless of results on the pitch, the club's vice-chairman Ed Woodward has claimed.

During United's quarterly conference call with shareholders, Woodward was asked if the improved performance in the Premier League this season had played a part in another bumper set of financial numbers for the world's richest club.

Woodward replied: "Playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business."

I know it's genuinely hard to understand - but football results quite simply don't matter when the glazers are making tens of millions of pounds every year. Yes it might be better from a status point of view or whatever, or indeed when they come to sell, but the glazers are going to make billions of pounds when they come to sell even if united are in the championship. As long as woodward is making them money, and he massively is, then the glazers aren't moving him anywhere. Football is an irrelevance to them, they are purely in it for the money.

[AllyouneedisRush]

What I don't understand is how Woodward is still there. I mean, the entire football world knows he's completely incompetent and we're all making fun of United for it. Surely the Glazers are aware of this? They must see that Woodward is effectively the laughing stock of the PL?

I know they're still making money and he's just sorted out this nonsense LEGO partnership, but still. The Glazers aren't stupid, I'm sure they're aware that it'll be easier for them to make more money if United are successful on the pitch. It just doesn't make sense to me that they're continuing to employ someone that the entire football world can see is clueless.

Having said that, I personally think they should give him a lifetime contract 

Look at what is driving the glazers ... The whole setup from when and how they purchased the brand that is Manchester United.

For me it's a simple transaction, a business deal... Winning things is nice but not the be all and end all for them...

Theyll make money until such time as they have had enough and call in their investment .... That could be 1 year or 20... Thing is, the glazers call all the shots.

[Mister Flip Flop]

People still blaming their owners  FFS they have given every single manager since Fergie a kings ransom in transfer funds. The managers have just spent it on shit hardly the owners fault the deluded fucks

[thaddeus]

People still blaming their owners  FFS they have given every single manager since Fergie a kings ransom in transfer funds. The managers have just spent it on shit hardly the owners fault the deluded fucks

Even this summer - the summer when Solskjaer allegedly cleared out the "dead wood" - they had a net spend of £50m.  The defence they named against us cost around £200m and they were playing in front of a goalkeeper they recently gave a £120m contract to.  Despite that they think it's progress to only concede two goals against us 

[reddebs]

For nearly 30 years I've had to endure being reminded that "the table doesn't lie" from opposition fans whenever discussing how this lot kept winning when they weren't always the "best" team.

Now apparently the whole league is shite and that's the only reason we're top and likely to win our first title in those 30yrs.

[Alan_X]

Ego does terrible things to decision makers.

Way I see it the owner's need to ensure the manager of the club has the best opportunity to implement his ideas....via recruitment of backroom staff/players whatever. And TIME to gauge success.

And however they facilitate that, they need to have the right people in place.
The tool they have chosen is Ed Woodward....and what a tool he is...

That problems drips down, the managers they have had have not ALL been bad....maybe not in the best moments of their careers but have not had either the staff/players or time to make it work. Or have just been shit. I think all of the managers they have recruited have had a mix of all these issues.

Is it all Woodward's fault? maybe.
Maybe its the people who appoint him...or both.

imo Ole should be gone and they should have been appointing Poch as soon as he was ready to take on another job (that might not be now - and if not they should have put in groundwork already for when that time comes) because he's one of the few managers out there that is really good.
I have not seen anything from Solksjaer to make me think he will be a success there....he obviously cares about the club but thats about all he offers to be honest. Maybe a good transition manager before they appoint the next/right one?

But obviously there is a mess at every level there....and am surprised it has been so long since they have competed for the title given their resources. It won't last forever but its enjoyable having this period of un-domination coincide with our successful rise to the top.

Funny ole game

What would appointing Pochettino do?

He still hasn’t won anything as a manager and was unable to impose his own ideas on Spurs. I see there are reports he’s in talks with United but he’s on a hiding to nothing going there. The attraction for Woodward is obvious - a trophy appointment to shut the fans up and a manager who was used to making the most of things at Spurs. Pochettino managed to finish behind Leicester when he had a good squad in their prime and the rest of the top four/six were a shambles.

If they get Pochettino it just guarantees another few years of Woodward and the Glazers.

[Alan_X]

People still blaming their owners  FFS they have given every single manager since Fergie a kings ransom in transfer funds. The managers have just spent it on shit hardly the owners fault the deluded fucks

Would you say that in any other business? The ownership and executives appoint managers who piss money away in poor signings and don’t put in place the kind of structures the best clubs have to assess players. They appoint managers with completely different playing styles (or no playing style in Ole’s case) meaning the next manager has a mish-mash of players to work with.

Of course it’s the owner’s fault. They are wrecking the club and don’t give a fuck as long as the dividends keep getting paid. Long may it continue. 

[Samio]

People still blaming their owners  FFS they have given every single manager since Fergie a kings ransom in transfer funds. The managers have just spent it on shit hardly the owners fault the deluded fucks

They've spent £948.13m on transfers since Fergie left. Net spend of £634.67m.

Often with the highest wage bill in the league too, and certainly always in the top 2 in the league.

For anyone that is interested in City/us for that 7 year period..

City are £1.084bn spent. £760.97m net.

We are £705.52m spent. £179.11m net.

[CraigDS]

The owners appoint the people who appoint the wrong managers and sign the wrong players (often for fee’s way over their true value). Ultimately the buck stops with them, so yeah they are massively to blame.

[Mighty_Red]

I think the only genuine way to stop the tide is for football fans to show solidarity with eachother beyond club allegiances. It's what's keeping the 51% rule intact in Germany, and there's many more examples of it. What the Glazers are doing to United is a concern to all of us, as is the Spanish Supercup and the Qatar World Cup. The powers that be are abusing the football community for their own gain, and them being able to do so has a lot to do with the fact that the solidarity and unity we showed in 2010 to rally around LFC, simply can not be done even over two clubs, let alone over football as a whole.

I completely agree, but to be honest with the state of fan tribalism these days, I'm not sure the fan groups have enough unity/organisation to work as one.

After some of the shite we have to put up from them, they would need to change their own fanbase just to get us onside.

Until there are mass walk-outs/tv sub cancelling etc. There is no chance of effecting change either at a club or league level.

Whilst Woody is very confident that his operation can continue to drive revenue and profit in the short term without onfield success, I wonder what the tipping point might be. There will always be money sloshing around, but it may well be that other clubs grow faster (like we're doing) and suddenly all the fans in the new markets are supporting other clubs and taking all the sponsor money you thought was yours.

Exhibit A is us - during the early to mid 90s we were still competitive in the transfer market (e.g. Collymore) but slowly we fell further and further behind Utd. Suddenly its 2005 and we cant compete with Utd & Arsenal let alone Chelsea and it took a special man to keep us with them.

[JovaJova]

The owners appoint the people who appoint the wrong managers and sign the wrong players (often for fee’s way over their true value). Ultimately the buck stops with them, so yeah they are massively to blame.

Whoever is dumb enough to sign a cheque to approve the purchase of Harry Maguire for 80m or sign a contract that gives Sánchez 350k per week can have a fair share of blame assigned to them.

Even if the Glazers are utterly clueless about football they should still question transactions like this.

Lets give Woodward and the Glazers 50% of the blame and Moysey / Van Gaal / Jose / Ole the other 50% and be thankful for the sheer ineptitude of everyone involved with that awful club

[redk84]

What would appointing Pochettino do?

He still hasn’t won anything as a manager and was unable to impose his own ideas on Spurs. I see there are reports he’s in talks with United but he’s on a hiding to nothing going there. The attraction for Woodward is obvious - a trophy appointment to shut the fans up and a manager who was used to making the most of things at Spurs. Pochettino managed to finish behind Leicester when he had a good squad in their prime and the rest of the top four/six were a shambles.

If they get Pochettino it just guarantees another few years of Woodward and the Glazers.

I think he is a good coach, better than what they have and if their two main problems (Glazers and Woodward) are to remain....which we know they will....then their best bet of any success is to get the best possible coach to work with the squad he is given.

I think Pochettino fits that profile. If he wants to work in those conditions that is...

[MJD-L4]

better than what they have...

You could pretty much say this about every manager in the Premier League at the moment though. I do honestly believe OGS is the worst manager in the division, they're only where they are because of Rashford's form and because all the teams around them are shite as well.

They're only 11 points off relegation after 23 games and they've just lost their main goal threat for a few months. They don't have a manager who can set up tactically to get get them through that. They're fucked.

[Mark Walters]

It's not all down to Klopp and if you think the right manager could come in and sort out all the issues at United you're mistaken. I said in another thread that it's great that people don't actually understand what's going on at Liverpool. We do have the best manager in the world (in my opinion) but if you listen to him talking he acknowledges the importance of the people around him. 

A perfect example is Pep Linders. He's not a Klopp appointment. He was here before and his quality was recognised and appreciated by the club hierarchy who told Klopp that he would be part of the backroom staff. The analytics team was here before Klopp - they were involved in the selection process when he was being considered.

This.  I hadn't been the the caf before a few days ago and they were talking about how long our dominance might last and it was "Klopp's been lucky with his signings", "as soon as he leaves they'll capitulate", "the players will be run into the ground", "he'll never find players who are as good as their front 3", etc etc with absolutely none of them recognising that there's been a complete shift in our football operation so that it doesn't rely on the manager alone and that analytics plays a huge part in what we do from the under 18s, to the first team, to the scouting, to the manager, the playing style, team selection, and probably the half time oranges!

It was fantastic that non-one could see it. It all means that we could well dominate for a good few years yet.

[LanceLink!!!!!]

[jepovic]

Their stock price went up like 30%. He's not going anywhere

I mean it's not unthinkable to keep Woodward and let someone else do the recruitment bit.

Their stocks go up despite the results on the pitch, not thanks to them. If they continue hovering around sixth, it will hurt them commercially as well.

[Son of Spion]

People still blaming their owners  FFS they have given every single manager since Fergie a kings ransom in transfer funds. The managers have just spent it on shit hardly the owners fault the deluded fucks

The buck surely stops with them, though?

The fans cannot say the owners have not supported the manager(s) with obscene amounts of money, of course, because they have. It's just that the owners have appointed all the wrong people to make use of those extremely generous funds. They are very similar to Everton in that regard. They've spent massively, but on shite. Ultimately, the buck for all that stops with the owners.

The fans have scored an own goal of their own, of course. The pressure they put on the club to appoint Hodgekjaer after his predictable caretaker manager bounce did force their hand a little. The owners were still weak enough to cave in and go with the madness though.

[Son of Spion]

You could have done a spoiler on that. 

*Cannot unsee*

[slaphead]

A little while ago someone posted that in the other thread and said his body looks like its making a sad face , and when you look it really does

[stoopid yank]

What would appointing Pochettino do?

He still hasn’t won anything as a manager and was unable to impose his own ideas on Spurs.

Yeah - its weird - he keeps getting touted as a "world class manager" in the press. He is a good manager, but the assumption he would automatically fix them is baseless.

[slaphead]

Yeah - its weird - he keeps getting touted as a "world class manager" in the press. He is a good manager, but the assumption he would automatically fix them is baseless.

I've never quite got that,  the world class manager thing. Overall I think he did a decent job, he'd certainly do a better job that Oleh,  but, when you look at some key factors of a managers success. Did he buy well ?  Did he get the best out of his players ?  Did he improve players ?  Did he win things, if not how did his teams react after going close ?
A lot of them don't stack up to be considered as a great manager. I don't think his signings have been great .Sanchez, Sissoko, Jansen, Aurier, Llorente to name a few. Even Moura isn't that good
Players like Deli Ali, Rose, Wanyama even - did they get better under under him ? Some players did for sure, but its to inbalanced
And their reaction after getting to the CL final last season was shocking. Whether thats a player thing or the manager I dont know
He's a bit of a myth.

[rob1966]

The buck surely stops with them, though?

The fans cannot say the owners have not supported the manager(s) with obscene amounts of money, of course, because they have. It's just that the owners have appointed all the wrong people to make use of those extremely generous funds. They are very similar to Everton in that regard. They've spent massively, but on shite. Ultimately, the buck for all that stops with the owners.

The fans have scored an own goal of their own, of course. The pressure they put on the club to appoint Hodgekjaer after his predictable caretaker manager bounce did force their hand a little. The owners were still weak enough to cave in and go with the madness though.

Got to agree with this, the buck ultimately stops with them. Looking at FSG, they made changes based on where they wanted to go as a club and were not scared to sack Kenny and Rodgers when they decided things weren't going to way they wanted.

You cannot fault them with the funds as a lot of Mancs do, they've given it to spend, but they do need the blame for having the wrong people deciding on managers and transfers

[RedSince86]

Someone showed that Bitter Manc with facts.

[Andy82lfc]

[Red-Soldier]

Van Gaal was ok, at least he had a long term plan/vision.  They sacked him too soon and have just been a laughing stock since.

[Samio]

Let’s not forget how much of a say Ferguson had in the appointment of Moyes. If you think that particular appointment was solely down to the owners then I would think again.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I think what's genuinely discomforting is that the Glazers serve as a reminder that every club can be reduced to a rich man's plaything. It's not just the clubs but football as a whole. What many of us live and breathe for is so far out of our hands it's depressing. The Spanish super cup was completely revamped and moved to UAE, and there's fuck all anyone could do about it. The next World Cup is in Qatar, I digress.

United have horrible owners, and there's nothing they can do about it. While our protests were very well organized and successful, it's not something that can be necessarily repeated. And with the money in the Premier Leauge, it's becoming financially viable for investors to go for boom or bust in the Championship, because gaining promotion is worth tenfold the risk of annihilating a club entirely. Bury and Bolton are just the beginning.

I think the only genuine way to stop the tide is for football fans to show solidarity with eachother beyond club allegiances. It's what's keeping the 51% rule intact in Germany, and there's many more examples of it. What the Glazers are doing to United is a concern to all of us, as is the Spanish Supercup and the Qatar World Cup. The powers that be are abusing the football community for their own gain, and them being able to do so has a lot to do with the fact that the solidarity and unity we showed in 2010 to rally around LFC, simply can not be done even over two clubs, let alone over football as a whole.

Fans laugh at the Glazers and the green and gold, even though they probably realize, deep down, it could be us.

I'm laughing my head off. It's wonderful 

[gazzalfc]

Solskjaer said: "Marcus is going to get as long as he needs. We are not going to risk him when he has had an injury. When he comes back he will be 100% fit."

On an article titled 'Marcus Rashford: Manchester United forward 'will be back this season''

[Andy82lfc]

Solskjaer said: "Marcus is going to get as long as he needs. We are not going to risk him when he has had an injury. When he comes back he will be 100% fit."

On an article titled 'Marcus Rashford: Manchester United forward 'will be back this season''

And also right after he risked him when he had an injury. 

[farawayred]

And also right after he risked him when he had an injury. 

Good managers learn from their mistakes however rare they may be.

[Son of Spion]

Let’s not forget how much of a say Ferguson had in the appointment of Moyes. If you think that particular appointment was solely down to the owners then I would think again.

Ultimately the decision is still on the owners. I got the feeling that the owners put their trust in the club legend there. Whisky Nose knew more about the club than they did. Without him they'd probably have remained the plucky cup side they always were. Ferguson pretty much was United. The supposed 'United Way' was actually the Ferguson Way. They were floundering for decades before him and have floundered ever since he binned them off. Ferguson's judgement had not really let them (the club) down, so I think they were content to trust in his judgement with his successor. Ultimately, the decision is theirs. They own the club, they hire the staff and they pay the wages.

[rebel23]

I read that they will appoint a director of football this summer and do everything over again.  Seems to make sense.

[Mark Walters]

People blame the owners but they're only partly to blame.  It's clear they know nothing about football and thus rely on employing people that they think are the best fit for whatever their vision is, then take a hands off role. 

If, for example, I decide to buy a nightclub because I like the idea of going somewhere that plays the music I like, serve the drinks that I like, gets some good looking girls through the doors, and makes me money then I can either employ a nightclub manager with the knowledge and experience to run the place or I learn the ropes and do it myself.  If it's the former, I won't care about what brand of prosecco the barman serves, how many watts the sound system is, and whether the bouncer is taller than 6ft 4in as long as the money's coming in.

And for the Glazers, the money's still coming in so Woodward is doing his job.  Sure, he's not doing a great job but in this analogy, I haven't got a clue what the most popular brand of prosecco is, whether a laser light show will attract more punters, or whether the toilets need a refurb because it's the nightclub manager's job to sort all of that out.  Woodward has been given that responsibility and he's fucking it up for them and they don't have a clue!

[Mark Walters]

I read that they will appoint a director of football this summer and do everything over again.  Seems to make sense.

That was last summer.  They've now shelved the idea! Great stuff!

[Mighty_Red]

I read that they will appoint a director of football this summer and do everything over again.  Seems to make sense.

Hopefully they will recruit Rio Ferdinand or Fletcher or someone else steeped in the "United Way"

[redgriffin73]

Reminds me of...

[rebel23]

That was last summer.  They've now shelved the idea! Great stuff!

Your right. its been shelved according to the BBC

There is still no director of football at Old Trafford - and the word I am hearing is that there is not going to be one in the foreseeable future.

But Woodward thinks United got it right in the summer when they signed Harry Maguire, Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Daniel James. Now he knows they need to get it right again this month - a top-four place is still a possibility - and, more importantly, next summer before they can be judged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51178288

So Woodward is going to do the signings again this summer.  Great news.

[Son of Spion]

People blame the owners but they're only partly to blame.  It's clear they know nothing about football and thus rely on employing people that they think are the best fit for whatever their vision is, then take a hands off role. 

If, for example, I decide to buy a nightclub because I like the idea of going somewhere that plays the music I like, serve the drinks that I like, gets some good looking girls through the doors, and makes me money then I can either employ a nightclub manager with the knowledge and experience to run the place or I learn the ropes and do it myself.  If it's the former, I won't care about what brand of prosecco the barman serves, how many watts the sound system is, and whether the bouncer is taller than 6ft 4in as long as the money's coming in.

And for the Glazers, the money's still coming in so Woodward is doing his job.  Sure, he's not doing a great job but in this analogy, I haven't got a clue what the most popular brand of prosecco is, whether a laser light show will attract more punters, or whether the toilets need a refurb because it's the nightclub manager's job to sort all of that out.  Woodward has been given that responsibility and he's fucking it up for them and they don't have a clue!

For me, your last line there shows exactly where the finger of blame should point.

The Glazers should know exactly what's going on and who is doing what. Attendances are slipping, morale is low, the natives are restless, their biggest rivals and their neighbours have overtaken them longsince, the league table doesn't lie. If they cannot see that something is very wrong when all this is on their watch, then they are 100% to blame for the current incompetence and malaise. I know those at the top always try to shift blame onto the lower ranks, but the buck ultimately stops with those at the top. If the Glazers cannot see what's stinking the place out right under their noses, then it's on them.