Author Topic: Safe Standing ( split from: Liverpool confirm decision to redevelop Anfield)  (Read 489001 times)

Offline Thepooloflife

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petition - bump

Offline Joff123

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They'll continue to treat football fans like shit though. Wouldn't expect any less from the tory scum.

I hope this keeps gathering momentum, shame the league didn't push for it, but glad the football league are.

Crystal Palace have now given full backing to the safe standing petition.

Offline Macred

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Crystal Palace have now given full backing to the safe standing petition.

A few teams have now tweeted on official accounts asking supporters to get behind it. Seems to have gathered momentum again. 96,500 now so close to triggering a debate. Interesting to see what happens. They should at least allow trials.

Offline Macred

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Over 101,000 now... interesting to see if the debate happens in any real sense. I did see that an MP was calling for it the other day before the petition got to 100k anyway.

Offline [new username under construction]

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Signed, 107 now?

Offline kopite321

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Debate in Parliament to take place in June...  https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43971245
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Offline Wabaloolah

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Debate in Parliament to take place in June...  https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43971245
25th June according to an email I received
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline TheShanklyGates

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Quote
The Government thanks all the football supporters who made their views known through this petition.

The Government believes that all-seater stadia are currently the best means to ensure the safety and security of fans at designated football matches in England and Wales, while continuing to work closely with the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and football authorities to consider advances in technology and data that may enhance the existing policy.

A debate in Parliament on this issue has been tabled for 25 June, when the nuances and complexities of sports ground safety will be covered in more detail.

Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport

'Fuck you', basically.
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Offline Redsnappa

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'Fuck you', basically.

Yeah just got my email, thought exactly the same.

Offline meady1981

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'Fuck you', basically.

Haha.
Might has we’ll have said ‘thanks for your little petition, we’ll put it up on the fridge next to your other potoato prints. Now go play outside and let the adults talk’.

Offline Maggie May

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But nobody is suggesting standing only terraces.  What is being put forward is rows of seats with a rail in front of them, which is ultra safe as opposed to the present arrangement of seats without a rail, which is, to my mind, very dangerous.  I stood on the Kop for years and never felt afraid once.  Mind you, I was always looked after by the gentlemen Kopites around me.  I have never felt safe in a seat - not even in the Main Stand, who have been known to run wild on occasion  ;).  I do hope that someone has the nouse to make this very clear at the outset of the debate.

PS.  The e-mail says CURRENTLY - which is correct.  The debate is on the petition which puts the case for the future.
« Last Edit: May 4, 2018, 09:02:07 am by Maggie May »
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Offline lfc79

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I really hope someone challenges them on why it only applies to "designated football matches" and how  Sunderland with their 48,000 capacity stadium could put in old fashioned terracing now them have been relegated to league 1.

Offline Maggie May

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Does anyone know if Luciana Berger has been approached on this and what her views are?  Plus any other Liverpool MPs.
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline Macred

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I'd just put rail seats in and leave the seat bit down all the time.... its a seat....  so compliant..  there is no rule about not putting a rail in.

Offline Jake

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No surprise from this shambolic Tory shithouse government.

Well in on the debate though, it's a good forward step.
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Offline andy07

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No surprise from this shambolic Tory shithouse government.

Well in on the debate though, it's a good forward step.

No surprise indeed but it will be interesting to see whether Labour actually say anything in support.
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Offline todda

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Unfortunately safe standing (and the clue is in the name) is a long way off in the premier league, especially at LFC, far too much money has been ploughed in to all seater stadia over the past 20 years for the powers that be to give a small section of the ground back to the man on the street. Too much money to be made in corporate hospitality 😡
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Offline CraigDS

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Unfortunately safe standing (and the clue is in the name) is a long way off in the premier league, especially at LFC, far too much money has been ploughed in to all seater stadia over the past 20 years for the powers that be to give a small section of the ground back to the man on the street. Too much money to be made in corporate hospitality 😡

Corp has got nothing to do with it.

Offline todda

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Corp has got nothing to do with it.
How come?
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Offline CraigDS

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How come?

Because they are in a small area of the ground which will never likely be standing.

The reason football grounds will not get standing is some faux idea that any standing is unsafe. The fact a portion of the ground, which will remain seated (as will the majority of a stadium) is nothing to do with it.

Offline todda

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Because they are in a small area of the ground which will never likely be standing.

The reason football grounds will not get standing is some faux idea that any standing is unsafe. The fact a portion of the ground, which will remain seated (as will the majority of a stadium) is nothing to do with it.
Thanks, got it
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Offline Wabaloolah

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Goimg to be debated in parliament at the end of the month and Labour have now backed safe standing
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline Jake

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Gathering momentum. Nice.
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Offline Billy Elliot

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No surprise indeed but it will be interesting to see whether Labour actually say anything in support.

I got an email last week saying that Labour were supporting safe standing, haven't heard anything about it though.
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Offline Billy Elliot

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Sounds to me like Spurs are going for it anyway.  Rail seats in the away end as well.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11416505/tottenham-prepared-for-safe-standing-at-new-stadium

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Offline Jake

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Read the FSF feed of the mp debate, seemed pretty one sided and everyone wanting it, with Tracey crouch even bending her opinion a little.
2019/2020 too hopeful to think about hmm?
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Offline Billy Elliot

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Read the FSF feed of the mp debate, seemed pretty one sided and everyone wanting it, with Tracey crouch even bending her opinion a little.
2019/2020 too hopeful to think about hmm?

Sounded to me that most wanted it (including a lot of Tories which surprised me), but Tracey Crouch was being a stubborn little bitch.  With Spurs just putting the rails in anyway, I think it's just a matter of time.  I also think that once it's given the green light in England most countries that already don't have it will follow.  After that, it'll be a matter of time before UEFA have a rethink and the seat behind the rail will become a waste of time.
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Offline Maggie May

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Once Spurs put the rails in it will create a domino effect and clubs will follow because it will be seen that rail seating is perfectly safe, and those who refuse to listen to reasoned argument and who deliberately make out that this is a return to the old standing stadia (when of course it is nothing of the kind) will have to lump it.  Speaking of which, I see the Blessed Margaret was quoted as saying that "most of the bereaved families don't want standing ever brought back".  I would be interested to know where she gets her figures from, since the HFSG can surely only speak for its membership and does not and never has spoken for bereaved families who are not members, despite continually inferring that it does. 
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline Billy Elliot

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Speaking of which, I see the Blessed Margaret was quoted as saying that "most of the bereaved families don't want standing ever brought back".  I would be interested to know where she gets her figures from, since the HFSG can surely only speak for its membership and does not and never has spoken for bereaved families who are not members, despite continually inferring that it does.

Quite correct,

https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/28/members-hillsborough-justice-campaign-come-support-safe-standing-premier-league-7667322/

I can't remember off the top of my head how many bereaved families HJC support, plus of course survivors.  I imagine the majority of Kop ST holders are 'survivors', given the age profile.

Sheila Coleman (HJC in the article), represented six of the families.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 03:21:28 pm by Billy Elliot »
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Offline The Lord Admiral

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Be interesting to know if Spurs had future proofed it on a 1:1 basis or a bit more.


Offline davidsteventon

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Sounds to me like Spurs are going for it anyway.  Rail seats in the away end as well.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/11416505/tottenham-prepared-for-safe-standing-at-new-stadium

This is really interesting. They seem to have implemented safe standard, whilst not. It's like they've maybe cracked the code but nobody has twigged on yet? Or am I reading it wrong? Looking at those pictures, that's a good idea. I can see complaints from those who want to sit - but you'd guess by doing this they're sort of saying you'd be daft to think you can sit - but we're not going to publicly call it standing?

Offline CraigDS

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This is really interesting. They seem to have implemented safe standard, whilst not. It's like they've maybe cracked the code but nobody has twigged on yet? Or am I reading it wrong? Looking at those pictures, that's a good idea. I can see complaints from those who want to sit - but you'd guess by doing this they're sort of saying you'd be daft to think you can sit - but we're not going to publicly call it standing?

They haven't really figured much out other than what looks like comfortable seats rather than metal ones and possibly removable support bars (it's not clear if they are removable from what I've read).

Offline Billy Elliot

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They haven't really figured much out other than what looks like comfortable seats rather than metal ones and possibly removable support bars (it's not clear if they are removable from what I've read).

If I understand it right, it sounds like a big step forward in getting the law changed.  If they've got rail seats in the away end, are they really going to make people sit on the seats?  I can't really see them making people use the seats in the home end.

I think that's what David meant when he said 'figured it out'.  They've effectively got safe standing areas without waiting for the law to be changed. 
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Offline CraigDS

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If I understand it right, it sounds like a big step forward in getting the law changed.  If they've got rail seats in the away end, are they really going to make people sit on the seats?  I can't really see them making people use the seats in the home end.

I think that's what David meant when he said 'figured it out'.  They've effectively got safe standing areas without waiting for the law to be changed.

Just because they install safe standing seats does not allow them to ignore the current laws and allow fans to stand. Otherwise clubs would have just done that years ago.

I'm not even sure if these are permanent rails or if they click in for games that allow standing. So they could well be standard seats (no rails) for all games anyway.

Offline Billy Elliot

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Just because they install safe standing seats does not allow them to ignore the current laws and allow fans to stand.

Maybe, but the stewards let us stand on European matches and I'd guess that at White Hart Lane and Wembley they let certain sections stand, what's the difference when they put the rails in?  All clubs have had certain sections (even if it's only the away end) where stewards have let people get away with it.  Imagine how silly it would be if they let another section of their new ground stand up, but made the sections with the rails sit down.

I remember there was threats to us from the Council about the safety certificate if the Kop continued to stand for European matches.  If whatever London Council threatened Spurs I imagine it would only intensify the debate, and ultimately lead to them being officially allowed even quicker.  Spurs have said this was the first part of the ground to sell out, I imagine their supporters will be wanting to stand.

Otherwise clubs would have just done that years ago.

Maybe they were waiting for the verdict.  Spurs mentioned the verdict when they announced this.  Can't imagine any Club going ahead with it until it was in black and white, the Hillsborough was not caused by standing.  It's also easier to do with a new ground / redeveloped stand.

I'm not even sure if these are permanent rails or if they click in for games that allow standing. So they could well be standard seats (no rails) for all games anyway.

The way I read it I just presumed they were permanent.  Has anybody installed rails that can be removed?  It doesn't make sense.  As far as I'm aware there's nothing to say that they can't put a rail in, and they have a good argument for doing it.  As long as they're sold as a seated area I can't see a problem.  Is there anything to stop them putting in permanent rails?  If there isn't and there's clear site lines when people are seated, why would they put in removable ones?
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Offline Jake

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Anyone could install rail seating at any time, but they'd still have to enforce sitting.
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Offline Maggie May

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I take the view that clearly there is no reason why rails cannot be installed now if the club wishes.  Obviously sitting has to remain enforced, but the whole concept of sitting only in modern stadia is a farce, as  we all know that if large sections of the ground wish to stand, there is bugger all the stewards can do about it.  The monster is "standing"  :shocked and Hillsborough is wielded like a club by the HFSG despite the proven fact that standing per se did not cause the Hillsborough Disaster.  Rails, in my opinion, are the way that safe standing will naturally occur, because a very large number of supporters want it to, and it will matter not one jot whether people get themselves into a lather over a change in legislation or not, because "standing" will no longer be an emotive issue.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2018, 05:32:04 am by Maggie May »
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

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I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline Nessy76

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Anyone could install rail seating at any time, but they'd still have to enforce sitting.

Which is rarely enforced as it is.
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Offline Maggie May

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Which is rarely enforced as it is.

Absolutely.  In fact clubs could say that rails are being installed as an additional safety measure, and let the naysayers argue against that.   ;D   
Rather a day as a lion than a lifetime as a sheep.

I can only be nice to one person a day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look too good either.
I tried being reasonable.  I didn't like it.  Old enough to know better.  Young enough not to give a fuck.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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I was at Chester yesterday and it looked a bit weird seeing one end standing only.

Hopefully this will be resolved soon and some form of safe standing introduced.