Topic: The Men in Suits behind the scenes

[disgraced cake]

Pretty sure Trent and Virgil will get sorted this summer, Salah would be a bit more sceptical about. Got a feeling it'll only be a few players in through the door this summer, even with a new manager.  The squad to be fair though is in a really good position. Rest will be contract extensions.

[killer-heels]

Van Dijk and Salah i can understand getting to this point but Trent getting to this point is silly. I believe its very likely he stays but he is 25 and one of our best players, we take a hit on his value should he turn around and say he wants to leave.

[Garlic Red]

The daft bit is allowing three of our most important players to go into the last year of their deal. We could lose Trent, VVD and Salah for nothing in the summer of 2025.

I don’t think it’s that bad having two players tied down until they’re 33 and 34 respectively. The weird one is Trent, there has to have been dialogue of sorts and thankfully it’s not been played out in the media like Mo’s was. Hopefully it’s a situation a bit like Mo where the deal gets done in the summer and we can all breathe a sigh of relief.

[G Richards]

I hope I’m wrong, but I wonder if Trent could be a surprising exit as a new manager comes in. Hypothetically let’s say it is Alonso. Let’s say he wants his right back to be more of a wingback, rapid, and weighing in with goals. So he signs Frimpong and Bradley is the back up. Trent is then looking at nailing down a midfield spot, which he might, but then again, with Real Madrid sniffing around there could possibly be a parting of ways.

Pure speculation on my part, but the ingredients are there for a potential surprise exit. On the other hand, maybe Trent signs a new deal and goes on to become our captain, which is just as possible, if not more likely.

[ianburns252]

You don't make Trent VC last summer if you don't have some assurances from him at least that he wants to stay long term.

Think same with Virgil for captain - reckon he will do a 2yr extension in summer

Salah is the one who they might look at the potentially sell this summer but I think only if Saudi league or someone like PSG will pay the silly money bandied about last summer (or close at least). Might see him as having more value in the squad to get one more year out of him should he not want to sign a longer extension

I do have faith in the club to make the right calls with this and get things over the line

One thing I noticed this year - which is a huge change from previous years - there hasn't been the forensic dissection of the club's accounts like in the past and that says a hell of a lot for how content we are as a fanbase currently

[farawayred]

Perhaps all three - VVD, Salah and Trent - are waiting to see who the next manager would be before signing a new contract. Trent has deeper roots at the club than the other two, but if he doesn't see himself winning loads of trophies in the new setup, he might consider his options; there won't be a shortage of those. VVD is the captain, and would likely want to remain the captain of Liverpool for a few more years, maybe the rest of his career. Salah's is a weird case - I can see him remaining here to break a few more records, the toughest ones, but who knows. In either case, I don't consider either of those three close to leaving or willing to leave, but if we get an underwhelming appointment things can change in a jiffy.

[CanuckYNWA]

I think VVD and TAA are nailed on to extend

Salah i think extends for 2 years till 2027 if the next manager wants him and as I cant see him wanting to go to Saudi at only 31 when he can go there when hes 35/36 and especially when hes still competing at a high level, the only question mark would be whether the next manager sees him in his system.

[spider-neil]

I think Trent will want to know the plans for him from the new manager before putting pen to paper.
Salah and VVD will want to know who the new manager is.

[Garlic Red]

I feel like I’ve read/heard in some of the recent coverage on Edwards returning that one of his ‘things’ was not giving the manager instant autonomy on transfers as soon as they arrive, and rather it be something that can develop as the manager settles into the role. Am I going nuts or have I completely made that up?

[Fromola]

Perhaps all three - VVD, Salah and Trent - are waiting to see who the next manager would be before signing a new contract. Trent has deeper roots at the club than the other two, but if he doesn't see himself winning loads of trophies in the new setup, he might consider his options; there won't be a shortage of those. VVD is the captain, and would likely want to remain the captain of Liverpool for a few more years, maybe the rest of his career. Salah's is a weird case - I can see him remaining here to break a few more records, the toughest ones, but who knows. In either case, I don't consider either of those three close to leaving or willing to leave, but if we get an underwhelming appointment things can change in a jiffy.

They will be now, but Trent should have been sorted last summer, why would we let that drag on?

Ultimately we'll have to sign him or sell him in the summer as a result of that. I'd imagine it'll get sorted but it should have been done already.

[spider-neil]

They will be now, but Trent should have been sorted last summer, why would we let that drag on?

Ultimately we'll have to sign him or sell him in the summer as a result of that. I'd imagine it'll get sorted but it should have been done already.

Klopp still had two seasons left on his contract last season.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

They will be now, but Trent should have been sorted last summer, why would we let that drag on?

Because we can't force him to do anything? Do you honestly think the Club hasn't tried to give him a new contract yet? Or maybe that they don't actually realise he has only a year left?

[Fromola]

Because we can't force him to do anything? Do you honestly think the Club hasn't tried to give him a new contract yet? Or maybe that they don't actually realise he has only a year left?

There's no talk of him turning down a contract though or noises of him reluctant to sign a deal. He was made vice captain last summer, the contract should have been sorted then. Let it get to the last year and the player holds the cards. What's to stop him doing a Mcmanaman?

I get the fact once Klopp announced he was leaving to the club in November, that contracts were going to be on the backburner until the new structure is in place and manager is in situ.

[spider-neil]

There's no talk of him turning down a contract though or noises of him reluctant to sign a deal. He was made vice captain last summer, the contract should have been sorted then. Let it get to the last year and the player holds the cards. What's to stop him doing a Mcmanaman?

I get the fact once Klopp announced he was leaving to the club in November, that contracts were going to be on the backburner until the new structure is in place and manager is in situ.

I Trent feels he has outgrown the right back position and will wait to see how he is utilised under the new manager. I think he will be okay as both Alonso and Amorim use wing backs (I think).

[Garlic Red]

We don’t do our business in public, though. Even if he’d been offered a contract and stalled/rejected it, nobody benefits by that being out in the media so it will be kept under wraps. The club will have obviously spoken to Trent and his team, let’s not be silly, there is obviously something stalling negotiations. Whether that’s from the club or the player (I suspect a bit of both if I’m honest), it doesn’t really matter, I’m sure it will be resolved in the coming months. If he goes into next season without it being resolved the writing’s on the wall, I can’t see the club allowing for that, but then we end up in a situation where a club like Madrid can lowball us and the player will probably only consider joining them, a la Owen.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

There's no talk of him turning down a contract though or noises of him reluctant to sign a deal.

Because we don't know about everything that happens within the Club.

He was made vice captain last summer, the contract should have been sorted then.

Again, do you honestly think we didn't try?

Let it get to the last year and the player holds the cards. What's to stop him doing a Mcmanaman?

Absolutely nothing, but we can't force any player to sign anything. Any player can do a McManaman.

[spider-neil]

You’d hope if Trent decides to move on he’d do the honourable thing and allow us to earn a fee.

[Fromola]

Again, do you honestly think we didn't try?

Not saying we didn't but you thrash it out and get it done, there must be a reason he didn't sign a deal last summer, even if it's inertia.

Makes the Henderson contract more annoying though, the fact he demanded a new contract with 2 years still to run, at 32, and got it right off the bat. Trent's one of our biggest assets, heading into the prime of his career. They're the ones you need to sort out with 2 years to run and not let the contract run down. We got stung with Mcmanaman and Owen by doing that.

[spider-neil]

Not saying we didn't but you thrash it out and get it done, there must be a reason he didn't sign a deal last summer, even if it's inertia.

Makes the Henderson contract more annoying though, the fact he demanded a new contract with 2 years still to run, at 32, and got it right off the bat. Trent's one of our biggest assets, heading into the prime of his career. They're the ones you need to sort out with 2 years to run and not let the contract run down. We got stung with Mcmanaman and Owen by doing that.

Maybe we thought an academy graduate wouldn’t hesitate to sign or think of leaving.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Not saying we didn't but you thrash it out and get it done, there must be a reason he didn't sign a deal last summer, even if it's inertia.

Makes the Henderson contract more annoying though, the fact he demanded a new contract with 2 years still to run, at 32, and got it right off the bat. Trent's one of our biggest assets, heading into the prime of his career. They're the ones you need to sort out with 2 years to run and not let the contract run down. We got stung with Mcmanaman and Owen by doing that.

But again what if we tried to thrash it out and get it done, but no matter what Trent said nah I want to wait? You're asking the Club to do something that is ultimately out of its hands. The Henderson example just makes it even more obvious that we will be doing everything we can to make Trent stay.

What you're saying is just like me saying Klopp is the best manager in the world so we should have just thrashed out a deal to make him stay. Who cares if he didn't want to? Just get it done.

I know you're the most pessimistic person in the world, but you're not stupid.

[Caston]

The contracts will be sorted. We’ve got CL football next season and a great squad. No worries from me

[Eeyore]

But again what if we tried to thrash it out and get it done, but no matter what Trent said nah I want to wait? You're asking the Club to do something ultimately out of its hands. The Henderson example just makes it even more obvious that we will be doing everything we can to make Trent stay.

What you're saying is just like me saying Klopp is the best manager in the world so we should have just thrashed out a deal to make him stay. Who cares if he didn't want to? Just get it done.

I know you're the most pessimistic person in the world, but you're not stupid.

Contract renewals for the likes of Trent, VVD, and Salah are eye-wateringly expensive strategic decisions. Decisions that would take up a significant chunk of our budget. Those are the kind of long-term decisions a Sporting Director makes. So was it Trent hesitant to commit or was it the fact that we didn't really have a Sporting Director in place to make those kind of decisions?

It is very easy to say just give them what they want but huge deals set a precedent going forward. 

[spider-neil]

Contract renewals for the likes of Trent, VVD, and Salah are eye-wateringly expensive strategic decisions. Decisions that would take up a significant chunk of our budget. Those are the kind of long-term decisions a Sporting Director makes. So was it Trent hesitant to commit or was it the fact that we didn't really have a Sporting Director in place to make those kind of decisions?

It is very easy to say just give them what they want but huge deals set a precedent going forward. 

World class players cost. It's also worth remembering that the wages of Matip and especially Thiago are about to be freed up.

[MonsLibpool]

World class players cost. It's also worth remembering that the wages of Matip and especially Thiago are about to be freed up.

Exactly.

[Garlic Red]

I’d suspect it’s a bit of both. The club would be hesitant to make those sort of decisions without key decision makers in place. The player’s probably reluctant to commit for a few reasons: the club were out of the CL last summer, I suspect he wants assurances over the position he’ll be playing moving forward and I do wonder if he’s backed himself to go up another level to secure a greater contract. As you say, these decisions are huge, often very complex and aren’t as straight forward as sticking a sheet of paper down in front of the player and expecting the autograph.

The Mo and Virgil ones are slightly different. Their age is a huge factor, I don’t think Edwards would have an issue with offering them new contracts, but there will be data telling the club what their current level is, what direction they’re heading in physically and how long at the very top they have. I imagine there wouldn’t be a huge issue with VVD leaving at the end of his contract age 34, if he’s still at a good level and wants to stay we could possibly offer another year, but it’s whether the player wants to accept the insecurity or would rather leave and potentially take a 3-4 year deal from a Serie A side, for example.

Salah is slightly younger and hasn’t had any major injuries/surgeries to suggest an alarming decline, but there’s not a lot of evidence to suggest a forward who does rely on speed/agility can play until he’s 35 in England. People keep bringing up Ronaldo as an example of longevity, but Ronaldo had the full team sacrificing for him at Juve and United, part of that was his ego, but can Mo remain an elite premier league player without his teammates carrying him? It’s a really tough one to answer and I suspect the club’s data team will have all the science behind any decision they make. His value is such that keeping him for that final year probably isn’t worth it vs what we could get for him this summer. He’s at an age where players do begin to sharply decline, though. I always remember Henry having that sensational 2006 season where Arsenal made the CL final, he then had a good World Cup for France and then fell off massively. He went to Barca in 2007 for a lot less than they could have anticipated they’d get for him in 2006 and never quite looked the same devastating player. Mo’s actually becoming more complete I feel with age, but it’s ultimately a business decision and it’ll be really interesting to see what direction the club goes in. I’d love him to sign another two year deal, the option to sell him to Saudi will probably still be there in a couple of years, it’s whether the club want to offer him probably even more money to remain. The club’s about maximising value, at what point does that principle become compromised if you’re offering a 32/33 year old player £500k-£750k a week.

[jillcwhomever]

World class players cost. It's also worth remembering that the wages of Matip and especially Thiago are about to be freed up.

You don't know how much money Trent is wanting though, it all has to come together. He will be expecting a big jump up and we will have to see if we can afford to pay him. I don't imagine Matip's wages will make that much difference for example.

[spider-neil]

I’d suspect it’s a bit of both. The club would be hesitant to make those sort of decisions without key decision makers in place. The player’s probably reluctant to commit for a few reasons: the club were out of the CL last summer, I suspect he wants assurances over the position he’ll be playing moving forward and I do wonder if he’s backed himself to go up another level to secure a greater contract. As you say, these decisions are huge, often very complex and aren’t as straight forward as sticking a sheet of paper down in front of the player and expecting the autograph.

The Mo and Virgil ones are slightly different. Their age is a huge factor, I don’t think Edwards would have an issue with offering them new contracts, but there will be data telling the club what their current level is, what direction they’re heading in physically and how long at the very top they have. I imagine there wouldn’t be a huge issue with VVD leaving at the end of his contract age 34, if he’s still at a good level and wants to stay we could possibly offer another year, but it’s whether the player wants to accept the insecurity or would rather leave and potentially take a 3-4 year deal from a Serie A side, for example.

Salah is slightly younger and hasn’t had any major injuries/surgeries to suggest an alarming decline, but there’s not a lot of evidence to suggest a forward who does rely on speed/agility can play until he’s 35 in England. People keep bringing up Ronaldo as an example of longevity, but Ronaldo had the full team sacrificing for him at Juve and United, part of that was his ego, but can Mo remain an elite premier league player without his teammates carrying him? It’s a really tough one to answer and I suspect the club’s data team will have all the science behind any decision they make. His value is such that keeping him for that final year probably isn’t worth it vs what we could get for him this summer. He’s at an age where players do begin to sharply decline, though. I always remember Henry having that sensational 2006 season where Arsenal made the CL final, he then had a good World Cup for France and then fell off massively. He went to Barca in 2007 for a lot less than they could have anticipated they’d get for him in 2006 and never quite looked the same devastating player. Mo’s actually becoming more complete I feel with age, but it’s ultimately a business decision and it’ll be really interesting to see what direction the club goes in. I’d love him to sign another two year deal, the option to sell him to Saudi will probably still be there in a couple of years, it’s whether the club want to offer him probably even more money to remain. The club’s about maximising value, at what point does that principle become compromised if you’re offering a 32/33 year old player £500k-£750k a week.

Good post. Totally agree.

[afc tukrish]

I’d suspect it’s a bit of both. The club would be hesitant to make those sort of decisions without key decision makers in place. The player’s probably reluctant to commit for a few reasons: the club were out of the CL last summer, I suspect he wants assurances over the position he’ll be playing moving forward and I do wonder if he’s backed himself to go up another level to secure a greater contract. As you say, these decisions are huge, often very complex and aren’t as straight forward as sticking a sheet of paper down in front of the player and expecting the autograph.

The Mo and Virgil ones are slightly different. Their age is a huge factor, I don’t think Edwards would have an issue with offering them new contracts, but there will be data telling the club what their current level is, what direction they’re heading in physically and how long at the very top they have. I imagine there wouldn’t be a huge issue with VVD leaving at the end of his contract age 34, if he’s still at a good level and wants to stay we could possibly offer another year, but it’s whether the player wants to accept the insecurity or would rather leave and potentially take a 3-4 year deal from a Serie A side, for example.

Salah is slightly younger and hasn’t had any major injuries/surgeries to suggest an alarming decline, but there’s not a lot of evidence to suggest a forward who does rely on speed/agility can play until he’s 35 in England. People keep bringing up Ronaldo as an example of longevity, but Ronaldo had the full team sacrificing for him at Juve and United, part of that was his ego, but can Mo remain an elite premier league player without his teammates carrying him? It’s a really tough one to answer and I suspect the club’s data team will have all the science behind any decision they make. His value is such that keeping him for that final year probably isn’t worth it vs what we could get for him this summer. He’s at an age where players do begin to sharply decline, though. I always remember Henry having that sensational 2006 season where Arsenal made the CL final, he then had a good World Cup for France and then fell off massively. He went to Barca in 2007 for a lot less than they could have anticipated they’d get for him in 2006 and never quite looked the same devastating player. Mo’s actually becoming more complete I feel with age, but it’s ultimately a business decision and it’ll be really interesting to see what direction the club goes in. I’d love him to sign another two year deal, the option to sell him to Saudi will probably still be there in a couple of years, it’s whether the club want to offer him probably even more money to remain. The club’s about maximising value, at what point does that principle become compromised if you’re offering a 32/33 year old player £500k-£750k a week.

Balanced, well-argued take...

[Eeyore]

World class players cost. It's also worth remembering that the wages of Matip and especially Thiago are about to be freed up.

That is kind of the point though. If you think you have a crack recruitment team that can spot a player who is just about to break out. Then you pay a smaller fee and crucially much lower wages. Do that and you have an appreciating asset on relatively low wages.

Give new deals to the likes of VVD and Salah and you have an asset that is depreciating to almost zero on massive wages.

[spider-neil]

That is kind of the point though. If you think you have a crack recruitment team that can spot a player who is just about to break out. Then you pay a smaller fee and crucially much lower wages. Do that and you have an appreciating asset on relatively low wages.

Give new deals to the likes of VVD and Salah and you have an asset that is depreciating to almost zero on massive wages.

I'd rather gamble on replacing a goal scorer than someone who organises our defence. Our defence was terrible before VVD (pre 18/19), and terrible in the season he was out. We're very brave if we are going to make VVD see out his contract and leave.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I'd rather gamble on replacing a goal scorer than someone who organises our defence. Our defence was terrible before VVD (pre 18/19), and terrible in the season he was out. We're very brave if we are going to make VVD see out his contract and leave.

Our defence personnel wise was totally different before Van Dijk when compared to now. We are generally fine when he doesn't play, and we were even fine in 20/21 until he, Gomez and finally Matip were all injured.

[rawcusk8]

Why is Trent leaving even being discussed? Have I missed something?

[Garlic Red]

Why is Trent leaving even being discussed? Have I missed something?

He’ll have 12 months left on his deal in the summer. Been speculation that Real Madrid are interested.

Regardless of if we think he’ll leave or stay, it’s pretty fair to at least discuss the possibility he leaves and why his contract’s been allowed to run down.

[CraigDS]

Regardless of if we think he’ll leave or stay, it’s pretty fair to at least discuss the possibility he leaves and why his contract’s been allowed to run down.

Unless he's leaving to take up a job in a suit behind the scenes then it's prob one to discuss elsewhere.

[Eeyore]

Unless he's leaving to take up a job in a suit behind the scenes then it's prob one to discuss elsewhere.

I would say appointing a new manager and looking to renew the deals of Trent plus possibly VVD and Salah is very much the remit of the suits behind the scenes. We are at a crossroads this summer. We have had a situation in which we haven't had a settled Sporting Director since Edwards left. We have also had a situation in which Kloppo earned the right to have a massive say in our recruitment and retention policies.

We have gone from a situation in which the balance of power had swung towards the manager. That has now almost certainly pivoted the other way. The dynamic has changed and it will be interesting to see how it develops. 

[farawayred]

I’d suspect it’s a bit of both. The club would be hesitant to make those sort of decisions without key decision makers in place. The player’s probably reluctant to commit for a few reasons: the club were out of the CL last summer, I suspect he wants assurances over the position he’ll be playing moving forward and I do wonder if he’s backed himself to go up another level to secure a greater contract. As you say, these decisions are huge, often very complex and aren’t as straight forward as sticking a sheet of paper down in front of the player and expecting the autograph.

The Mo and Virgil ones are slightly different. Their age is a huge factor, I don’t think Edwards would have an issue with offering them new contracts, but there will be data telling the club what their current level is, what direction they’re heading in physically and how long at the very top they have. I imagine there wouldn’t be a huge issue with VVD leaving at the end of his contract age 34, if he’s still at a good level and wants to stay we could possibly offer another year, but it’s whether the player wants to accept the insecurity or would rather leave and potentially take a 3-4 year deal from a Serie A side, for example.

Salah is slightly younger and hasn’t had any major injuries/surgeries to suggest an alarming decline, but there’s not a lot of evidence to suggest a forward who does rely on speed/agility can play until he’s 35 in England. People keep bringing up Ronaldo as an example of longevity, but Ronaldo had the full team sacrificing for him at Juve and United, part of that was his ego, but can Mo remain an elite premier league player without his teammates carrying him? It’s a really tough one to answer and I suspect the club’s data team will have all the science behind any decision they make. His value is such that keeping him for that final year probably isn’t worth it vs what we could get for him this summer. He’s at an age where players do begin to sharply decline, though. I always remember Henry having that sensational 2006 season where Arsenal made the CL final, he then had a good World Cup for France and then fell off massively. He went to Barca in 2007 for a lot less than they could have anticipated they’d get for him in 2006 and never quite looked the same devastating player. Mo’s actually becoming more complete I feel with age, but it’s ultimately a business decision and it’ll be really interesting to see what direction the club goes in. I’d love him to sign another two year deal, the option to sell him to Saudi will probably still be there in a couple of years, it’s whether the club want to offer him probably even more money to remain. The club’s about maximising value, at what point does that principle become compromised if you’re offering a 32/33 year old player £500k-£750k a week.

Excellent well-reasoned post.

The only thing I'd add is that It seems that letting both VVD and Salah go in the same summer is undesirable. We'd risk disturbing both the organization of our defense at the back and the goal thread upfront at the same time. It would be hard to replace either, but both seems nearly impossible. Massive task for Edwards and team.

[farawayred]

He’ll have 12 months left on his deal in the summer. Been speculation that Real Madrid are interested.

Regardless of if we think he’ll leave or stay, it’s pretty fair to at least discuss the possibility he leaves and why his contract’s been allowed to run down.

The uncertainty with Trent may be two-fold - who the new manager would be and (maybe) where he wants to play. Judging by his words, he seems to be intent to move to midfield, but hasn't quite yet (although he spends a lot of game time there). I don't see Real chasing him for a midfield position.

[Eeyore]

The uncertainty with Trent may be two-fold - who the new manager would be and (maybe) where he wants to play. Judging by his words, he seems to be intent to move to midfield, but hasn't quite yet (although he spends a lot of game time there). I don't see Real chasing him for a midfield position.

I think a major part of Trent wanting to play in midfield is because of the England situation. The thing is both Walker and Trippier are 34 this year and Reece James simply can't stay fit. Trent could easily have a clear run at the England right-back position after the summer. That might make it easier to convince him to sign a new deal.

[Bennett]

I think a major part of Trent wanting to play in midfield is because of the England situation. The thing is both Walker and Trippier are 34 this year and Reece James simply can't stay fit. Trent could easily have a clear run at the England right-back position after the summer. That might make it easier to convince him to sign a new deal.

I think the major part of Trent wanting to play in midfield is his ability to get on the ball and influence proceedings. He can't be the next Gerrard while he's stuck at right back. His defensive frailties are overplayed but racing back to handle 1v1s clearly isn't his favourite part about playing football either.

[Garlic Red]

Unless he's leaving to take up a job in a suit behind the scenes then it's prob one to discuss elsewhere.

Sorry to have derailed the thread, I think it sits within here though. We’ve just appointed a new SD and FCEO, the two biggest tasks they’re facing is appointing a new manager and sorting the situation of three of our most important players. Can take it to the relevant player threads if there’s no interest in discussing it here, it sits under strategy for me like.