Topic: Curse of the Hipster! When Popularity Kills the Cool

[Titi Camara]

Do you suffer from waning interest in something once the masses get their frenzied claws into it? Does something have to live eternally in the recesses of society to hold your undying adulation?

It's a peculiar human quirk, the more other people agree you...the less fervently you hold onto an artistic opinion

I think some will definitely see the potential reasons for such shifts to be embedded in their desire to define themselves as being part of the counter-culture movement and so anything mainstream gets viewed with suspicion or even derision.

I'm not immune to it's effects but I try to be conscious of this odd sort of bias when assessing my, potentially, changing opinion of any sort of art.

One of the biggest examples of recent times is Coldplay. I'm sure some will say, "nah they were always fucking shite mate", but when Parachutes came out no fucker was hating on them, they were seen as cool, universally. Then someone's mum liked them and it was all fucking over.

As soon as they blew up, as soon as they were perceived to be "mainstream", every hipster worth his dungarees and cereal fetish, was decrying how they fucking hated them. Not apathy, not lack of awareness, actual hate.

The change is opinion was as stark as it was immediate.

So do you suffer from similar afflictions? What are some of other big name examples that have suffered the same fall from grace?

[Sheer Magnetism]

There is an element of that, but I think it's more the other way round. Performers get big once they start creating work that's more like everything else in the mainstream, or they start acting differently once they get there and that's a turn off. Sometimes they get overexposed and you get sick of them, or that added exposure reveals something you don't like.

For instance, the first Coldplay album is relatively modest and understated compared to the stadium sound and pontificating that came afterwards. They were basically the next U2 once they got to their third. For me, it depends on whether they're still good/interesting or not, and you don't have to be either of those things to do well commercially.

[redan]

Kings of Leon were never a band I liked all that much but my mates from 2003 onwards bloody loved them (I was more of a Cooper Temple Clause and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club fan back then ) but then when they did that fourth album they all simultaneously dismissed them as being sell outs and their music was now terrible. Yes it was commercially focused but as rock albums go, imo it’s ok pretty good but as they were no longer ‘their KOL’ they weren’t interested anymore.

I do think especially with music if you get into an artist earlier than most you do have a strange sense of entitlement around them. Then when the late coming gatecrashers turn up it is somehow the artists fault and it turns you against then.

Then of course some bands just turn shit

[BarryCrocker]

I have this 'theory' that I keep dragging out about artists who, as they become more successful and wealthier have a challenge writing songs that relate to the everyday person. Elton John, Rod Stewart, Billy Joel all being examples of great songwriters who wrote about things we could relate to when they were young, but now that they fly in private jets and live extraordinary lifestyles they can't.

[Titi Camara]

For instance, the first Coldplay album is relatively modest and understated compared to the stadium sound and pontificating that came afterwards.

I absolutely agree.

I appreciate, that for you, your opinion changed on their artistic merits, that them becoming mainstream coincided with an altered sound and image which led to you disliking their later works.

I think though, that for the majority, them just becoming popular was enough to make them shite.

[Titi Camara]

I do think especially with music if you get into an artist earlier than most you do have a strange sense of entitlement around them.

Then of course some bands just turn shit

I have this 'theory' that I keep dragging out about artists who, as they become more successful and wealthier have a challenge writing songs that relate to the everyday person.

Some genuinely good points. The sense of entitlement exhibited by fans on the ground floor, his absolutely wild, it's like they own it or somehow through the power of their support actually created it

There's definitely something in the detachment that fame and fortune brings. Trying to take lyrics about pain and suffering seriously when they have been written in decadent luxury is a tough one!

[Son of Spion]

It happens for me with music. I recall way back seeing an almost pubescent U2 performing I Will Follow on some TV programme I can't even remember. I thought yes, I'll have some of them. But my interest ended after the 1983 album War. Everyone was into them, Bono eventually disappeared up his own arse and that was that.

Coldplay was another. I saw them as unknowns playing support to Muse in Liverpool. Even Muse fans were very impressed and they went down a storm. People in work always used to ask who I was going to see. When I said Coldplay they all said "never heard of them." Later that very same year they'd exploded and were playing at the much bigger Royal Court in town and headlining their own tour. The very same people who'd said "never heard of them" just months earlier were raving about them and making out they'd been there from day one with them. I lost interest in Coldplay pretty quick and actually find them unlistenable now.

Oasis was another. I'd heard them before Supersonic hit the charts. I remember saying in work that they'd be massive. Same "never heard of them" response. Not long later the whole world was onto them. They lost me by the second album. I wouldn't piss on either of the brothers now if they were on fire.

[So… Howard Philips]

Back in the early 70s when I read the NME the likes of Charles Shar Murray would initially praise the likes of Bowie and Roxy Music to the high heavens. Give it about a year and the criticism would start.

Roll on to the next round of praise for another idol who, again, turned out to have feet of clay.

Mind you we see it on here with some of our players!

[tubby]

I think it's just natural evolution and bands/singers change their approach over time.  When they record their first album they won't produce it themselves, it'll be on a tight budget, and they won't be as world weary.  Once you get to the third album, suddenly you've got your own ideas about how it should be produced, you want to move away from the music style you've been playing for the past 5 years, etc.

Bands just lose parts of their original audience because they've evolved into something different.

[Crosby Nick]

I think it's just natural evolution and bands/singers change their approach over time.  When they record their first album they won't produce it themselves, it'll be on a tight budget, and they won't be as world weary.  Once you get to the third album, suddenly you've got your own ideas about how it should be produced, you want to move away from the music style you've been playing for the past 5 years, etc.

Bands just lose parts of their original audience because they've evolved into something different.

Yeah, a familiar tale over the years. Arctic Monkeys the most recent version of it I think. They’ve evolved a fair bit over the years, and only natural that they move away from songs about nights out as teenagers but many (probably myself included) prefer their early stuff.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Nickelback

[Claire.]

Muse are probably the band that best fit this for me, I'd seen them supporting Skunk Anansie around when Muscle Museum was released and really liked them, loved the first album - Coldplay actually supported when I saw them at the L2 in like 2000 and muse were fucking brilliant live. Hated the second album and then they went a bit weird and I've never seen them in a large venue. I've seen Coldplay a few times as well but only ever supporting as never been a band I like really, they seemed like nice lads though.

Stereophonics kinda similar but I've never really 'gone off' them as such, just loved the first two albums and then only liked bits of others.

[Crosby Nick]

Muse are probably the band that best fit this for me, I'd seen them supporting Skunk Anansie around when Muscle Museum was released and really liked them, loved the first album - Coldplay actually supported when I saw them at the L2 in like 2000 and muse were fucking brilliant live. Hated the second album and then they went a bit weird and I've never seen them in a large venue. I've seen Coldplay a few times as well but only ever supporting as never been a band I like really, they seemed like nice lads though.

Stereophonics kinda similar but I've never really 'gone off' them as such, just loved the first two albums and then only liked bits of others.

Stereophonic are another on that well worn path of a debut album all about a small town/growing up and then having to move on from it. I drifted away from them somewhere after about the third album I think.

[Claire.]

Stereophonic are another on that well worn path of a debut album all about a small town/growing up and then having to move on from it. I drifted away from them somewhere after about the third album I think.

Yeah, first two are great and I'd still listen to them now.

[ToneLa]

I hated hipsters before it was cool

[Titi Camara]

I hated hipsters before it was cool

[jillcwhomever]

I agree with SoS, Oasis really spring to mind so many people insisting they were the height of cool. Yet when I listened to their albums I just went cold, they did some good songs but the rest for me where meh. I get that way with films as well, certain ones get hyped up way beyond what they actually are and I am guessing you could include certain television programmes as well.

[gerrardisgod]

The ultimate example from myself for this would be The Killers, don’t think their sound has particularly altered that much and I do still enjoy the odd track…but as soon as I heard Human (a truly dreadful song that became bizarrely popular) I just totally dropped off a cliff.

[BarryCrocker]

I hated hipsters before it was cool

I like bands that don't even exist yet.

[Crosby Nick]

I like bands that don't even exist yet.

And I hate them already.

[Crosby Nick]

Away from the bands we’ve listed, do you have any favourites who had a nice little following who had a song or album that suddenly propelled them to a wider/more mainstream audience and then you went off them/resented their success? I’ve now drawn a complete blank but there’s loads of examples of bands/artists like that.

[gerrardisgod]

Away from the bands we’ve listed, do you have any favourites who had a nice little following who had a song or album that suddenly propelled them to a wider/more mainstream audience and then you went off them/resented their success? I’ve now drawn a complete blank but there’s loads of examples of bands/artists like that.

Snow Patrol, first two albums I loved, then along came Run.

[tubby]

I like bands that don't even exist yet.

[BobPaisley3]

Kings of Leon were never a band I liked all that much but my mates from 2003 onwards bloody loved them (I was more of a Cooper Temple Clause and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club fan back then ) but then when they did that fourth album they all simultaneously dismissed them as being sell outs and their music was now terrible. Yes it was commercially focused but as rock albums go, imo it’s ok pretty good but as they were no longer ‘their KOL’ they weren’t interested anymore.

I do think especially with music if you get into an artist earlier than most you do have a strange sense of entitlement around them. Then when the late coming gatecrashers turn up it is somehow the artists fault and it turns you against then.

Then of course some bands just turn shit

Cooper Temple Clause. Wow, I’d forgotten all about them. Saw them and bought the album circa 2002. Don’t think I’ve listened to it since.

[ToneLa]

I think the best as in most rewarding  experience is when you get into an artist early and you're there in the intimate venues and the little clubs and it's the artist and their people and the people are only there as the music knocks them dead and the artists are there because the music knocks them dead

I admit for me there is an element of appreciating the underdog but it helps when they're fucking brilliant.

Comparatively it feels a bit soulless when a decade later your fav band from back in the day only play Wembley

And there is no time travel tourism option for music sadly. I'm seeing Peter Hook and the Light but let me tell you I'd give you someone else's Xmas bonus to see Joy Division. Hooky is an arse but the JD covers might give me what I hope is a tiny slice.

When you come too late you get all you can - with recorded music, that's where it stays Holy and uncompromised. Perfect Sound Forever as the CD was supposed to be.

The live animal is difficult. I fucking love Janis Joplin yknow so much but I'm sure some old crusty somewhere sees me as some 60s hipster, I wasn't there man, I can't KNOW. Nor do I want to be the guy who gatekeeps fucking MUSIC like that. Woah no thank you this is about art and soul and freedom

All the complaints feel meagre when it's you and the music

I've been fortunate to meet new, younger La's fans recently, in the last 18 months, not even just in Liverpool, not even just in England, and it's just an absolute pleasure when you meet someone who similarly responds to the music with the seriousness and passion you feel.

That isn't mainstream though.

I would love a band who truly made it not do a few stadium dates but actually tour like they did when they were newer. The sound is often better in the more medium venues. Don't you ever feel it's sometimes about packing them in? You can say it's about reaching the most people but at some of the prices I dunno, it feels a teensy bit like gatekeeping when only the (very slightly) rich can go

It seems impossible. I dunno though. I can do festivals. I can do stadium shows. I would do anything for the right music.

But I suppose I wish to retain the romance of it. Which is probably as bullshit as the rest of it to be frankly honest.

I wish I saw Husker Du in their prime, man, a sweaty little rock club somewhere in the States.

.... Meanwhile, the mainstream pay Ludicrous prices for stadium gigs to see a speck who could be Taylor Swift. But if it means as much to them as it does to rock moron here, good

I see a young person with a Nirvana Tshirt and all I hope now is they've lived with the tunes. I don't mean listened to. I don't mean heard. I mean lived with. Not out of some weird Pay Yer Dues thing though perhaps there is an element of that but the most serious benefit here is living with the music.

It's funny as fuck seeing people with Beatles t-shirts on. But it's no less honest. Hey, least they're representing right? I've never not immediately liked anyone I've spoken to in a Beatles shirt. I do however have stories about bitter people I've met who hate the Beatles Alright, that's a stance I suppose.

Been getting into Fred Neil lately. I wish this was an act. Life would be simpler to be mainstream constantly. But I've been in a huge fucking crowd responding to the music and that's soulful and beautiful in a totally different way, when you are part and parcel of the crowd and you all believe.. Well that's why I like Anfield yous must know what I mean

After all, the music stands alone. And that's all it's ever really about. Everything else is paraphernalia

[Claire.]

Away from the bands we’ve listed, do you have any favourites who had a nice little following who had a song or album that suddenly propelled them to a wider/more mainstream audience and then you went off them/resented their success? I’ve now drawn a complete blank but there’s loads of examples of bands/artists like that.

I haven't gone off them in any way, shape or form, but I suspect future gigs will be... different. My favourite band is deftones and for whatever reason one (or more, I don't know) of their songs started being a thing on TikTok and now there's all irritating children infiltrating the reddit like they're brand new and being surprised that they're all 50 and been around forever.

[Riquende]

when Parachutes came out no fucker was hating on them, they were seen as cool, universally.

Sorry but I heard Yellow way back in the day and hated it. Awful dreary sludge. Maybe I'm just culturally isolated sometimes but I didn't even know Coldplay had any fans until 2010, when I got a job in a school and some spotty 14 year old in the lunchtime computer club asked me which of their songs I liked best. He was gobsmacked I didn't have an answer.

But, it is an interesting topic and reminds me of this 'long read' from a few weeks ago that touches on it: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/18/nirvana-sell-out-data-music-industry

I'm not sure if this has happened to me, I did feel that a lot of the artists behind the music I listed to in the 90s suddenly released really crap albums towards the end of the decade and into the 2000s, and I totally went off following anything new by them: Green Day, Foo Fighters, The Offspring, Marilyn Manson, many more. I don't think they were getting more popular or mainstream when I lost interest, just that the arse largely fell out of rock music as the 'noughties' loomed. But I might be wrong. Certainly I've never moaned about any of them 'selling out' or anything like that.

Maybe some artists only really have one album in them, however great it is, but the nature of the industry has them sign up for multi-album deals anyway, and then those later albums are going to have major label money behind the marketing, regardless of the quality. There's a huge part of society that don't really make much effort to find alternative music so will just see these bands on TV and buy the records anyway.

[redan]

Away from the bands we’ve listed, do you have any favourites who had a nice little following who had a song or album that suddenly propelled them to a wider/more mainstream audience and then you went off them/resented their success? I’ve now drawn a complete blank but there’s loads of examples of bands/artists like that.

I don’t know if it’s related to their success but for me there’s the White Stripes before and after Seven Nations Army. I loved them in the early 00’s and even loved the album that song is on but I never bought any of their stuff or saw them live afterwards. It just didn’t feel the same.

However some bands like Feeder for example, I liked before their big breakthrough but I still loved them throughout their commercial hey day and would still watch them now. Same with the Killers, I saw them in a pub in Birmingham supporting a band called Stellastar! They played 5 songs I think and I thought they were bloody great! When Hot Fuss arrived, I didn’t resent it, I loved it and Sam’s Town is one of my favourite 00’s albums. So I guess it depends

[tubby]

Same with the Killers, I saw them in a pub in Birmingham supporting a band called Stellastar!

I can beat that, way before she broke through, I saw Adele supporting Tilly and the Wall (they're an indie band who have a tap dancer instead of a drummer).

[redan]

I can beat that, way before she broke through, I saw Adele supporting Tilly and the Wall (they're an indie band who have a tap dancer instead of a drummer).

That’s great and the best bit of the story has nothing to do with Adele! A band who had a tap dancer instead of a drummer?! More of that I say!

[Crosby Nick]

That’s great and the best bit of the story has nothing to do with Adele! A band who had a tap dancer instead of a drummer?! More of that I say!

A one armed tap dancer?

[rob1966]

Kings of Leon were never a band I liked all that much but my mates from 2003 onwards bloody loved them (I was more of a Cooper Temple Clause and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club fan back then ) but then when they did that fourth album they all simultaneously dismissed them as being sell outs and their music was now terrible. Yes it was commercially focused but as rock albums go, imo it’s ok pretty good but as they were no longer ‘their KOL’ they weren’t interested anymore.

I do think especially with music if you get into an artist earlier than most you do have a strange sense of entitlement around them. Then when the late coming gatecrashers turn up it is somehow the artists fault and it turns you against then.

Then of course some bands just turn shit

Our kid tried to get me into KOL god knows how long ago, he's seen them loads in Bournemouth in small clubs down the years, I just couldn't get on with Calebs voice. I missed the chance to see them in 2007, they were playing at Hard Rock in Orlando when we were there on honeymoon, but we flew back before they were due. Anyway Only By the Night came out, I liked it and then suddenly everything clicked and I fell in love with the first 3 albums. Then every man and his dog got onto sex on fire and suddenly there were people going to see them just on the back of that who you knew would absolutely hate the early stuff. I still like them now, I prefer bands who develop and change, than just stay the same.

Marillion releasing Kayleigh did it for me, I'd been into them since Script, then suddenly everyone started liking them

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

I'm sure some will say, "nah they were always fucking shite mate", but when Parachutes came out no fucker was hating on them, they were seen as cool, universally.

Think the whole premise of the thread falls down when mentioning Coldplay as having ever been cool. Think the Pitchfork (literally Hipster Blogsite #1) review from the time sums it up: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/1539-parachutes/

[Elmo!]

A one armed tap dancer?

Def Step Hard?

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Most, if not all, of the bands mentioned in this topic didn't become poor after they became big.

They were always poor.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I can beat that, way before she broke through, I saw Adele supporting Tilly and the Wall (they're an indie band who have a tap dancer instead of a drummer).

I went with the Missus to see the Pussycat Dolls two years in a row, first we saw them, Rihanna was her support act, the next time, Lady Gaga, I'm not a fan of either, but it's a bit mad thinking back to them performing to half empty halls.

[Crosby Nick]

Most, if not all, of the bands mentioned in this topic didn't become poor after they became big.

They were always poor.

I knew someone too cool for us was going to say something like that and the bookies had you near the top of the pile.

[Nitramdorf]

Some bands that have been around for a while go back around to where they started. Seen a fair few bands in a pub not far from me who in the 80s were playing in big arenas. Now theres a few hundred or so I'd guess watching and its great again. Saw UFO a while back and you could stand at the bar and watch and it was fantastic.

[rob1966]

Def Step Hard?

[Indomitable_Carp]

Kings of Leon were never a band I liked all that much but my mates from 2003 onwards bloody loved them (I was more of a Cooper Temple Clause and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club fan back then ) but then when they did that fourth album they all simultaneously dismissed them as being sell outs and their music was now terrible. Yes it was commercially focused but as rock albums go, imo it’s ok pretty good but as they were no longer ‘their KOL’ they weren’t interested anymore.

I do think especially with music if you get into an artist earlier than most you do have a strange sense of entitlement around them. Then when the late coming gatecrashers turn up it is somehow the artists fault and it turns you against then.

Then of course some bands just turn shit

I can't say I was ever a huge KOL fan, but I do remember liking their early stuff and then hating "Sex is on Fire". Besides being bland, shite, stadium rock, that song was completely overplayed to the extent that I ended up hating it and never listened to KOL again.