Topic: Should Politicians be held accountable for lying to the public?

[Titi Camara]

We live in an age of disinformation and outright lies. Politicians are continually caught out lying but rather than facing any consequences of their actions they actually appear, in certain circumstances, to be rewarded for it.

Should there be direct and actionable consequences to politicians openly lying whilst in office? Would this call a halt to all dialogue and debate? Is it too much to expect open and honest discourse with our elected officials and be able to trust the things that they are telling us?

My personal opinion is that MPs should be answerable to an independent panel, where if they are judged to have lied to the public (to a preset, pre-agreed threshold of say 5 times) they are struck off, losing the right to be an MP at any point in the future. There could and should be a knock on impact to the party they represent as well.

[A-Bomb]

We live in an age of disinformation and outright lies. Politicians are continually caught out lying but rather than facing any consequences of their actions they actually appear, in certain circumstances, to be rewarded for it.

Should there be direct and actionable consequences to politicians openly lying whilst in office? Would this call a halt to all dialogue and debate? Is it too much to expect open and honest discourse with out elected officials and be able to trust the things that they are telling us?

My personal opinion is that MPs should be answerable to an independent panel, where if they are judged to have lied to the public (to a preset, pre-agreed threshold of say 5 times) they are struck off, losing the right to be an MP at any point in the future. There could and should be a knock on impact to the party they represent as well.

I said this after the Brexit fiasco, that particularly when campaigning to the public, the information should be with the intent to provide an accurate statement and presentation of facts. Any malicious or deliberate, tacit manipulation or outright misrepresentation should see politicians not only punished but stricken from representation as they are not fit for office.

[Zeb]

Is the law, or a semi-judicial hearing, the right place to try and hold a political problem to account? Won't it push things further onto those who cannot be held to account for the words whatsoever?

[TepidT2O]

Lie can be such a subjective term.

People see the same thing in different ways

[rob1966]

Concerning Brexit, some of them should be executed for treason.

[RedGlen]

I would advocate for an independent body to fact check and regulate MP's, maybe a regulationary body like many professions have? There is the Law Society for Lawyers, and the NMC/GMC/HCPC for the healthcare professions. All of these professions have to adhere to a standard of conduct, both professionally and personally to remain on the register. This includes bringing the profession into disrepute, and lying to their clients/patients, which are both grounds for being struck off. There are obviously situations in which the MP's may have to omit information to the public on grounds of national security, but for everything else - it could be regulated. In the aforementioned professions, it is a requirement to stay updated on news/information from the professions, and if you give outdated or false information or advice, that can be grounds for misconduct. So MP's giving it the '"I honestly believed that was true" wouldn't fly, because they'd have to show they actually researched the issue before spaffing on about it. 

Thoughts?

[So… Howard Philips]

Concerning Brexit, some of them should be executed for treason.

Hanging, drawing and quartering is too good for them.

[Max_powers]

I would advocate for an independent body to fact check and regulate MP's, maybe a regulationary body like many professions have? There is the Law Society for Lawyers, and the NMC/GMC/HCPC for the healthcare professions. All of these professions have to adhere to a standard of conduct, both professionally and personally to remain on the register. This includes bringing the profession into disrepute, and lying to their clients/patients, which are both grounds for being struck off. There are obviously situations in which the MP's may have to omit information to the public on grounds of national security, but for everything else - it could be regulated. In the aforementioned professions, it is a requirement to stay updated on news/information from the professions, and if you give outdated or false information or advice, that can be grounds for misconduct. So MP's giving it the '"I honestly believed that was true" wouldn't fly, because they'd have to show they actually researched the issue before spaffing on about it. 

Thoughts?

This would be my approach too. I think anyone calling themselves journalist should also be held to these standards. The truth is what the politicians and journalists say can lead to policies than can ruin many lives and even cause deaths. Why shouldn't they be held accountable?

Some would argue that people can vote them out if they lie. But general public is just not interested in the political nitty gritty to even realize the lies, additionally they sometimes suffer from bad case of cognitive dissonance.

[oldfordie]

I think we must already have a system in place now (a select committee) but I assume it doesn't have the power to actually enforce any sort of punishment. remember Johnson writing a article claiming the EU have a rule that stops children under 8 blowing up balloons, he was asked by a select committee to explain which EU rule says children under 8 can't blow up balloons, Johnson tried to bluff his way out of it but the wording of the EU rule he quoted was clear, he was lying, the EU rule was a advisory warning printed on all packets of Balloons similar to warnings on boxes of fireworks, it advised parents not to leave children under 8 unsupervised when blowing up balloons as they can choke.
Johnson has a long history on making up outrageous lies about the EU, they are not opinions, they are not said in ignorance, the intention is to deceive voters. many of us have been outraged listening to the likes of Redwood continually arguing 90% of the world trade on WTO terms so we have nothing to fear.
It's not about opinions or predictions it's  about facts,everyone can have a opinion but they can't have their own facts. Johnson can't argue China has frictionless trading with the EU, China does not have frictionless trading with the EU. it's not up for debate as it's a fact.

[eddymunster]

Lie can be such a subjective term.

People see the same thing in different ways

There's fuck all subjective about the lies that were spewed by many pre-brexit.

[gregor]

I think what is being proposed in the OP is an absolute minefield. What constitutes a lie? Who decides the criteria? In which situations are they speaking to "the public"?

The whole point of our system is that the constituents decide who they want as their MP. If they don't like him/her they can vote them out. They can also recall them if found guilty of wrongdoing. It's not up to a panel to decide who is and isn't worthy of holding a position they were elected to.

[rob1966]

I think what is being proposed in the OP is an absolute minefield. What constitutes a lie? Who decides the criteria? In which situations are they speaking to "the public"?

The whole point of our system is that the constituents decide who they want as their MP. If they don't like him/her they can vote them out. They can also recall them if found guilty of wrongdoing. It's not up to a panel to decide who is and isn't worthy of holding a position they were elected to.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson stating that the EU force an Isle of Man kipper exporter to send the kippers with an ice pack, when it is actually Isle of Man legislation that insists their food producers adhere the UK and EU food standards? He insisted the producer was utterly furious with the EU and had his costs increased because of it.  When I went the TT in 1989, we bought kippers for my stepdad to be posted to him. They arrived in a parcel packed with bags of ice. Everything he claimed was utter lies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49030873

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Fucking right they should & the speaker of the house should be able force the twats to answer any questions put to them & if they lie he should start the next pmqs by reading out a correction list and force the c*nts to acknowledge what he says is true.

Sick to death of the bastards.

[west_london_red]

Fucking right they should & the speaker of the house should be able force the twats to answer any questions put to them & if they lie he should start the next pmqs by reading out a correction list and force the c*nts to acknowledge what he says is true.

Sick to death of the bastards.

Problem is they are not allowed to call each other liars in the house. If you can’t call them out for being liars you can’t expect them to admit it and stop doing it.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Problem is they are not allowed to call each other liars in the house. If you can’t call them out for being liars you can’t expect them to admit it and stop doing it.

Should be able and the childish twats are always screaming liar.

[Mutton Geoff]

Lying is now tolerated and given this cosy False Facts title, in the end though politicians lie they have always lied to get elected they produce manifesto's that we know they wont proceed with once elected, they lie in the house in the media and they always will.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Lie can be such a subjective term.

People see the same thing in different ways

yeah, does mean that someone who got something wrong ‘e.g. I think Brexit will be great’ only for it to fuck up, there will be some that do genuinely think that but when it’s a redwood telling his clients it won’t be good whilst saying to the public it’s fine then that’s a clear case of lying, ditto for those who are involved and making decisions based off it to make money

[Max_powers]

Lying is now tolerated and given this cosy False Facts title, in the end though politicians lie they have always lied to get elected they produce manifesto's that we know they wont proceed with once elected, they lie in the house in the media and they always will.

I think manifesto's are different. They are essentially promises. They can be broken due to many things (e.g. not having enough political clout to achieve your goals once elected) I think to punish politicians for failing to live up to them would be silly.

However, inaccurate statements that can be easily disproven by facts, conflicts of interests ( if not declared to public) and blabbering about a topic that they themselves have not researched should be punishable.

[gregor]

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson stating that the EU force an Isle of Man kipper exporter to send the kippers with an ice pack, when it is actually Isle of Man legislation that insists their food producers adhere the UK and EU food standards? He insisted the producer was utterly furious with the EU and had his costs increased because of it.  When I went the TT in 1989, we bought kippers for my stepdad to be posted to him. They arrived in a parcel packed with bags of ice. Everything he claimed was utter lies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49030873

Excellent example.

Would this be considered addressing "the public"? It was said at a private Tory party hustings. As far as I'm aware the general public wouldn't have been in attendance. Also, I'm sure Johnson would claim that this was an oversight, rather than an outright lie. It's extremely difficult to define, and this would need to be really rigid if MPs were potentially losing their jobs over it.

The media widely reported that the kipper story was bollocks almost immediately after it was said. Any member of the public can see that. The majority of people won't give a shit and it won't affect their opinion of Brexit. Their minds are already made up, and they'll use confirmation bias to pick and choose what they want to believe. The idea in the OP would be a nightmare to implement, and would just lead to MPs declining interviews in case they slipped up at all. It's unworkable and unnecessary.

[AndyMuller]

I’d rather there was a modern day Guy Fawkes who blew parliament to pieces with them all in it but there isn’t so I clicked Yes.

[oldfordie]

Excellent example.

Would this be considered addressing "the public"? It was said at a private Tory party hustings. As far as I'm aware the general public wouldn't have been in attendance. Also, I'm sure Johnson would claim that this was an oversight, rather than an outright lie. It's extremely difficult to define, and this would need to be really rigid if MPs were potentially losing their jobs over it.

The media widely reported that the kipper story was bollocks almost immediately after it was said. Any member of the public can see that. The majority of people won't give a shit and it won't affect their opinion of Brexit. Their minds are already made up, and they'll use confirmation bias to pick and choose what they want to believe. The idea in the OP would be a nightmare to implement, and would just lead to MPs declining interviews in case they slipped up at all. It's unworkable and unnecessary.

Well it's certainly is necessary considering the position this country is in right now and how we got here, whether it's workable depends on how it's implemented, I agree with your point, Johnson said this without checking his facts, it made him and the people who applauded him look foolish but imagine if this never got the reaction it did, imagine 3 or 4 yrs ago when nobody gave much of a s,,.and he was free to say whatever he wanted without much accountability. he would be told this just isn't true by people who know the facts , they tell him it's a UK law not a EU law, Johnson ignores all this proof and repeats the claim on a regular basis. Johnson is now telling deliberate lies. some things are not a matter of opinion, they are facts, he should be brought in front of a committee and asked to explain why he keeps claiming this is a EU law, he should be warned if he repeats the claim some sort of punishment will be given.