Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Red Beret]

Just mind blowing at times how stupid some people are. Anyway I am back in work next week, dreading being on the trains with them getting fuller up to Christmas. But I suppose having had it, I will at least get the benefit for a while.

Almost nobody wearing masks on trains these days. Seems to be a bit better on buses, though not by much.

[filopastry]

Almost nobody wearing masks on trains these days. Seems to be a bit better on buses, though not by much.

Yes trains seem to be bloody awful on masking, local transport a bit better, I think masking on the Tube has held better than I thought, although depends on time of day, rush hour isn't usually too bad, other times of the day with leisure travellers seem worse

[Hedley Lamarr]

Masks should be made mandatory tonight, a bit of material and elastic.  Unless you’re medically exempt it’s an insignificant act.

[Crumble]

Hardly anyone wears masks anywhere at the moment. I took the granddaughter to her school book fair yesterday. Out of all the teachers, parents and children in the school hall, I was the only one with a mask on.

Maybe B1.1.529 will nudge people to starting wearing them again, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Red Beret]

Masks should be made mandatory tonight, a bit of material and elastic.  Unless you’re medically exempt it’s an insignificant act.

You'll be surprised at the number of people who are suddenly "medically exempt" from wearing masks.

[filopastry]

Interesting on B.1.1.529

Angelique Coetzee, chairperson of the South African Medical Association: “It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible but so far the cases we are seeing are EXTREMELY MILD.”

[mattybeard]

You'll be surprised at the number of people who are suddenly "medically exempt" from wearing masks.

All those people who have access to Amazon and buy a green lanyard...

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They were also unvaccinated.

That makes no difference though does it,my cousin and his daughter were both double jabbed,the vaccine doesn't give you immunity or stop you from spreading.

[flemingcool]

Interesting on B.1.1.529

IF that were true, it could actually be fantastic couldn’t it?  More transmissible to take out Delta, but so mild it actually could make it less of a problem? 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Have you any background in academic science, in particular virology or epidemiology? Posted this earlier from someone who is actually in a position to comment on shutting borders, and she's been against this pretty much from the beginning:

https://twitter.com/mugecevik/status/1464132156062535689

To those less familiar with virology, which is most of the population, shutting borders makes you 'feel safer'. In reality at this stage of the pandemic, it does nothing.

I guess we should shut travel even to lorry drivers crossing the channel from Europe, and just rely on what we produce in the UK to see us through to the end of this in...oh wait there's no end in sight and this could continue for the next decade? Surprised how little people have changed over the last 12 months, it's cringeworthy.

At this stage but had we acted sooner then variants cannot travel on their own can they.

[Jm55]

That makes no difference though does it,my cousin and his daughter were both double jabbed,the vaccine doesn't give you immunity or stop you from spreading.

It does make a difference because the main focus of concern surrounding this variant is its potential to evade the immune response (either from vaccines or previous infection).

Vaccines don’t 100% prevent infection or transmission but they do reduce both, the concern with this variant is that the protection against infection, transmission (and potentially serious illness) is that it further increases the chance of infection for those with antibodies.

It is a fair point though that with all the scaremongering surrounding in, millions have been and are being infected by other variants despite being double and triple jabbed, the really telling thing will be if it reduces the protection against serious illness and death.

[Broad Spectrum]

At this stage but had we acted sooner then variants cannot travel on their own can they.

So basically keep borders shut permanently is what you’re suggesting? Remember, when variants are identified as being ‘of concern’ it’s too late to shut borders. Shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted is the perfect analogy here.

[filopastry]

IF that were true, it could actually be fantastic couldn’t it?  More transmissible to take out Delta, but so mild it actually could make it less of a problem? 

Definitely, I suppose the one concern would be if you could have a mild case but still have longer term health issues like Long Covid, but others on here are no doubt much better qualified to comment.

[rob1966]

Bloody hell the "Worst Ever" variant label is very worrying. I hope they can contain it in South Africa

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/what-do-we-know-about-the-new-worst-ever-covid-variant

I'm sure someone posted a link to report from a scientist on here months ago that said for the virus to mutate enough to avoid the vaccines, its wouldn't be able to survive?

We do need to get the African countries to take the vaccine though, even if it means giving it to them on the sly in food or whatever way if the vaccine uptake is low.

[[new username under construction]]

Chise is posting regular (ish) updates about it on Twitter

Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household.

Angelique Coetzee, chairperson of the South African Medical Association: “It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible but so far the cases we are seeing are EXTREMELY MILD.”

[Andy82lfc]

Chise is posting regular (ish) updates about it on Twitter

Update on the case in Belgium. Unvaccinated and developed flu-like symptoms after being infected with Nu but NO WORSE symptoms 11 days after returning from Egypt. NO other symptomatic individuals in their household.

Angelique Coetzee, chairperson of the South African Medical Association: “It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible but so far the cases we are seeing are EXTREMELY MILD.”

From my limited knowledge is it not right that the more transmissible a virus is the more milder the symptoms? Think that was also to do with viruses in general like how Ebola transmits quite badly as it is so deadly and shuts the host down so quick. The common cold being a good example of one that transmits like wildfire but less symptomatic.

I could be talking complete crap but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable posters can fill us in.

[didi shamone]

Took a hit there too today. Full results from Merck's Molnupiravir trial had a drop in efficacy to 30% from 50% for prevention of hospitalisation and death. It still looked better for older populations maybe.

30% is still something though.

Pity, but Pfizer are claiming 89% in early studies according to what I heard. Obviously it's early days but anywhere close would be a game changer.

[courty61]

From my limited knowledge is it not right that the more transmissible a virus is the more milder the symptoms? Think that was also to do with viruses in general like how Ebola transmits quite badly as it is so deadly and shuts the host down so quick. The common cold being a good example of one that transmits like wildfire but less symptomatic.

I could be talking complete crap but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable posters can fill us in.

I think Measles is one of the most infectious. Remember reading that last year. And most people have immunity from the MMR and also it is usually mild.

Too early to jump to any conclusions yet and too many people after a quick like or click on their website. Just have to wait and see at the end of the day for the science

[Red-Soldier]

Failure to share Covid vaccines ‘coming back to haunt us’, says Gordon Brown

Ex-PM says world was ‘forewarned’ of dangers of failing to vaccinate poorer countries amid rise of new variant

The failure of the world to get vaccines to the developing world is “coming back to haunt us”, Gordon Brown has warned, as experts said the emergence of variants such as B.1.1.529 could have been avoided if jabs had been more fairly distributed.

Writing in the Guardian, the Labour former prime minister said the world had been “forewarned” that a lack of vaccines in poorer countries could have serious consequences for the pandemic.

He said there had been embarrassing failures to meet promises on fair distribution of vaccines by the west, highlighting figures that show only 3% of people in low-income countries are fully vaccinated compared with more than 60% in the rest of the world.

He said world leaders now needed a global accord to ensure better distribution and accused the EU of “neocolonialism” in its approach to buying up vaccines made in South Africa.

“The good news is that our medical genius has ensured that the new Nu variant has been identified quickly; is being sequenced at speed; and, if it proves not only more transmissible but immune to current vaccines, a new vaccine will soon emerge,” Brown said. “But given the contrast between the success of our scientists and the failure of our global leaders, only a herculean effort starting this week can allay fears that new mutations among unvaccinated people in the least-protected places will take Covid into a third year – with even fifth, sixth and seventh waves.”

Experts such as Tim Bierley, a pharma campaigner at Global Justice Now, said the rise of the variant had been “entirely avoidable” and that conditions for its emergence had been created by low- and middle-income countries being “actively prevented” by the UK from having equitable access to vaccines.

“For more than a year, South Africa, Botswana, and most countries have been calling for world leaders to waive intellectual property on coronavirus vaccines, tests and treatments, so they can produce their own jabs,” he said. “It’s a vital measure that will be discussed at next week’s World Trade Organization conference. But, so far, the UK and EU have recklessly blocked it from making progress.

“If and when this new variant starts to tear through the world, remember that the British government has led opposition to the plan that could have stopped it.”

Dr Ayoade Alakija, a co-chair of the Africa Vaccine Delivery Alliance, said: “I am so angry right now. Even if the moral argument didn’t work for them, if we had lost sight of our common morality, and common humanity, then even from an enlightened self-interest perspective, surely, surely, they understood that if they did not vax the world as equitably and as quickly as possible, that what we were going to see was variants springing up that we don’t know whether we’re going to be able to control.”

rof Azra Ghani, an epidemiologist at Imperial College London, said new variants were likely to arise in any setting where the virus was circulating at high levels, including in the UK.

Adam Finn, a professor of paediatrics at the University of Bristol and a member of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI), warned that the approach of vaccinating and revaccinating increasingly low-risk people in wealthy countries would “rebound on rich countries”, noting they would end up with more deaths and more economic damage as a direct consequence.

“There isn’t any need for altruism here, just hard-nosed self interest – but somehow the politicians continue to fail to grasp this and those of us advising them are told very clearly that anything outside our borders is outside our remit,” he told the Guardian.

Danny Altmann, a professor of immunology at Imperial College, emphasised there were additional complexities around B.1.1.529, as South Africa had excess vaccine stocks that it could not use due to vaccine hesitancy. Research has suggested the problem is larger among white adults, with one study from August revealing just over half were willing to receive a Covid jab compared with about 75% of black adults.

But Alakija said the issues were unrelated. “Had South Africa and indeed the rest of Africa been allowed access to vaccines at the same time as the rich countries of the world there wouldn’t have been uncontrolled spread replication and subsequent mutation of the virus,” she said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/rich-countries-could-have-prevented-new-covid-variant-say-experts

[TSC]

50091 new cases and 160 deaths reported today.

[67CherryRed]

Angelique Coetzee, chairperson of the South African Medical Association: “It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible but so far the cases we are seeing are EXTREMELY MILD.”

If this turns out to be the case then surely we should just sit back and let it take over? A dominant but mild variant all but ends the pandemic.

[Jm55]

From my limited knowledge is it not right that the more transmissible a virus is the more milder the symptoms? Think that was also to do with viruses in general like how Ebola transmits quite badly as it is so deadly and shuts the host down so quick. The common cold being a good example of one that transmits like wildfire but less symptomatic.

I could be talking complete crap but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable posters can fill us in.

I think it’s more the case that if the virus is too deadly it’s unlikely to last for long because, as you say, it kills its host too quickly to spread effectively.

I don’t think there’s a sliding scale of transmissibility equals milder symptoms sadly, I think it’s perfectly possible to have a more transmissible variant which also has stronger or similar symptoms to the original.

[So… Howard Philips]

50091 new cases and 160 deaths reported today.

 Never mind the new variant the current one is bad enough.

[djahern]

From my limited knowledge is it not right that the more transmissible a virus is the more milder the symptoms? Think that was also to do with viruses in general like how Ebola transmits quite badly as it is so deadly and shuts the host down so quick. The common cold being a good example of one that transmits like wildfire but less symptomatic.

I could be talking complete crap but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable posters can fill us in.

They can proceed together in that direction - more transmissable, less severe - but they're not usually linked. It's a common thought that they are always linked when actually the more transmissable element comes from virus evolution while the less severe element comes from changes in the population where the virus goes from completely novel to everyone to one most encountered previously. That's not to say it cant happen, it certainly can happen that a change to make it more transmissable makes it less severe, but it's not a given. But we could get lucky.

[TSC]

I think it’s more the case that if the virus is too deadly it’s unlikely to last for long because, as you say, it kills its host too quickly to spread effectively.

Think similar happened with SARS. 

[Andy82lfc]

I think it’s more the case that if the virus is too deadly it’s unlikely to last for long because, as you say, it kills its host too quickly to spread effectively.

I don’t think there’s a sliding scale of transmissibility equals milder symptoms sadly, I think it’s perfectly possible to have a more transmissible variant which also has stronger or similar symptoms to the original.

They can proceed together in that direction - more transmissable, less severe - but they're not usually linked. It's a common thought that they are always linked when actually the more transmissable element comes from virus evolution while the less severe element comes from changes in the population where the virus goes from completely novel to everyone to one most encountered previously. That's not to say it cant happen, it certainly can happen that a change to make it more transmissable makes it less severe, but it's not a given. But we could get lucky.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So basically keep borders shut permanently is what you’re suggesting? Remember, when variants are identified as being ‘of concern’ it’s too late to shut borders. Shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted is the perfect analogy here.

No that's just how you're interpreting what I said.

The Gov stopping flights from S.Africa and any other country is pointless.

[smicer07]

Omicron

[Stockholm Syndrome]

From my limited knowledge is it not right that the more transmissible a virus is the more milder the symptoms? Think that was also to do with viruses in general like how Ebola transmits quite badly as it is so deadly and shuts the host down so quick. The common cold being a good example of one that transmits like wildfire but less symptomatic.

I could be talking complete crap but hopefully one of the more knowledgeable posters can fill us in.

I think statistically that's correct but from my (again limited) knowledge that's not a general link between the two, just that milder diseases are more easily transmissible as the person with it may just carry on with life regardless and infect more people because they are not dying or seriously unwell.

[Son of Spion]

Interesting on B.1.1.529

Please be true.

[Spezialo]

Bloody hell the "Worst Ever" variant label is very worrying. I hope they can contain it in South Africa

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/25/what-do-we-know-about-the-new-worst-ever-covid-variant

The next variant after this one will be the 'worst one ever'.

[The G in Gerrard]

Interesting on B.1.1.529

How true is this? As most media stories today seem to air on the side of scare mongering or along those lines.

[TepidT2O]

How true is this? As most media stories today seem to air on the side of scare mongering or along those lines.

Too early to tell really. Give it another week

[Bincey]

Moderna has announced it's working on an update to address it.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-strategy-address-omicron-b11529-sars-cov-2

[The G in Gerrard]

Too early to tell really. Give it another week

Fingers crossed cause I like many others are fed up. Depressing.

[Macphisto80]

If there's cases of that as far as Belgium already, then it's only a matter of time before it finds its way to UK and Ireland and beyond. In fact, its an absolute cert it already has.

[[new username under construction]]

Moderna has announced it's working on an update to address it.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-strategy-address-omicron-b11529-sars-cov-2

I think Moderna and Pfizer were working on an update for Delta as well weren't they? Probably just covering bases

[thejbs]

I think it’s more the case that if the virus is too deadly it’s unlikely to last for long because, as you say, it kills its host too quickly to spread effectively.

I don’t think there’s a sliding scale of transmissibility equals milder symptoms sadly, I think it’s perfectly possible to have a more transmissible variant which also has stronger or similar symptoms to the original.

From what I've read, you're right. Evolution doesn't always follow logic. Evolutionary biology shows that diseases can also get nastier as they mutate and that there's no dependable link between virulence and transmissibility. In fact, there have been very few cases of viruses losing their virulence as they mutate.

SARS was brought under control by contact tracing and quarantining - this was easier than with covid as symptomless transmission was virtually non-existent. H1N1 didn't get less virulent, immunity brought it under control. That's our best bet against covid - our body putting up a better defence, rather than hoping the virus will become weaker.

[Jm55]

How true is this? As most media stories today seem to air on the side of scare mongering or along those lines.

Hopefully it’s true but it’s worth noting it’s come out of South Africa who are likely to want to err on the side of positivity considering the travel bans.

Ultimately we just will have to wait and see.

[John Higgins]

South Africa is a large enough country geographically speaking (5x that of the UK) that one region might have been spared a delta surge and gets one of the new variant without there being much of a difference in transmissibility.

Your ability to be spectacularly wrong on this from day dot is unparalleled. This is nonsense.