Author Topic: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!  (Read 177934 times)

Offline stewy17

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4640 on: May 6, 2024, 06:15:03 pm »
A bully, yes.

When was he proven to be a cheat? Strange comparison and I’m not sure of the point you’re making.


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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4641 on: May 6, 2024, 07:10:08 pm »
A bully, yes.

When was he proven to be a cheat? Strange comparison and I’m not sure of the point you’re making.



Well he pressured referees to give decisions that weren't right because he'd threaten them, saying they'd be kicked out (Documented in books) and pressurised referees to add more time on than they should 'Fergie Time' and pressured them into giving wrong decisions against opponents.

Doesn't that sound like cheating to you?
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4643 on: May 6, 2024, 10:04:53 pm »
You lot


https://x.com/NoContextMarkG/status/1787574590497026411

:lmao

Welcome to our world. Imagine if he had to deal with this bs every week the way we do?
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4644 on: May 6, 2024, 10:51:49 pm »
Whether or not you believe in theories or not we've been royally fucked over by refs this season.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4645 on: May 7, 2024, 06:38:25 am »
You lot


https://x.com/NoContextMarkG/status/1787574590497026411

:lmao
Looked like a foul but apart from that I agree with most of what he said.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4646 on: May 7, 2024, 07:17:31 am »
The refs make it up as they go along. They showed a still frame of Jones to get him sent off something they haven't done before or since.

Offline stewy17

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4647 on: May 7, 2024, 10:30:34 am »
Well he pressured referees to give decisions that weren't right because he'd threaten them, saying they'd be kicked out (Documented in books) and pressurised referees to add more time on than they should 'Fergie Time' and pressured them into giving wrong decisions against opponents.

Doesn't that sound like cheating to you?

It's nowhere near the same thing and comparing the two things (one being gamesmanship, and the other being doping, financial doping, and bribery) reduces the reality of what City's manager and board have actually been found to be doing in the past.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4648 on: May 7, 2024, 10:51:31 am »
Hooper for Villa, Kavanagh on VAR.

Looks like they're giving them all one final shot each against Jurgen before he leaves!
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4649 on: May 7, 2024, 10:58:19 am »
It's nowhere near the same thing and comparing the two things (one being gamesmanship, and the other being doping, financial doping, and bribery) reduces the reality of what City's manager and board have actually been found to be doing in the past.

So Ferguson allegedly being given a Rolex for fixing a match against Juve. Was that gamesmanship?

Or how about Mark Halsey stating that he and Ferguson used to ring each other up and text each other?

Writing about the controversy last year when fellow official Mark Clattenburg was accused of racially abusing Chelsea star Jon Obi Mikel, Halsey claimed he called Ferguson personally to garner his support.

‘I took matters in my own hands and rang Sir Alex asking him to speak out,’ claimed Halsey.

‘He agreed and used his Friday press conference to say he could not conceive of Mark saying such things. It helped the situation a great deal.

‘It took time to gain Mr. Ferguson’s respect but in the end we had a very good relationship.


‘One thing should be made clear about my relationship with Sir Alex. I may have spoken to him a lot and shared texts but he knew when I crossed that white line there were no favours.

‘Players and managers would not respect you if you gave decisions based on friendship.’

Or how about Referees being terrified of giving decisions against United. How about journalists who didn't toe the party line being thrown out of press conferences. That isn't gamesmanship that is bullying and corruption. That is someone acting like a mob boss and not a football manager.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4652 on: May 7, 2024, 01:57:45 pm »
That’s actually quite shocking isn’t it?

You spelt expected wrong :)
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They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4653 on: May 7, 2024, 07:00:25 pm »
Off the five refs listed, we know for a fact one is a Liverpool fan which is why he hasn't reffed us. I'd imagine there are many more Liverpool supporting refs than there are Luton ones which obviously means the pool of refs who can take our games are smaller.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4654 on: May 7, 2024, 07:07:54 pm »
Off the five refs listed, we know for a fact one is a Liverpool fan which is why he hasn't reffed us. I'd imagine there are many more Liverpool supporting refs than there are Luton ones which obviously means the pool of refs who can take our games are smaller.

I wonder how many support one of the Manchester clubs?

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4655 on: May 7, 2024, 07:38:29 pm »
Off the five refs listed, we know for a fact one is a Liverpool fan which is why he hasn't reffed us. I'd imagine there are many more Liverpool supporting refs than there are Luton ones which obviously means the pool of refs who can take our games are smaller.
We know Taylor is a United fan and he refs Manchester clubs

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4656 on: May 7, 2024, 07:45:42 pm »
Hooper for Villa, Kavanagh on VAR.

Looks like they're giving them all one final shot each against Jurgen before he leaves!

Jurgen is defo getting a yellow card.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4657 on: May 7, 2024, 07:57:12 pm »
Off the five refs listed, we know for a fact one is a Liverpool fan which is why he hasn't reffed us. I'd imagine there are many more Liverpool supporting refs than there are Luton ones which obviously means the pool of refs who can take our games are smaller.

If you are a Luton fan though that is okay though.



You can get to be the VAR when your closest rivals for relegation Forrest visit Goodison and deny them a stonewall penalty.
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Offline alonsoisared

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4658 on: May 7, 2024, 08:13:04 pm »
We know Taylor is a United fan and he refs Manchester clubs
No we don't.

I wonder how many support one of the Manchester clubs?
I'd imagine there's plenty who support United. Us and them are the best supported clubs in the country by a mile. I genuinely don't know the stats though.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4659 on: May 7, 2024, 08:43:58 pm »
No we don't.
 I'd imagine there's plenty who support United. Us and them are the best supported clubs in the country by a mile. I genuinely don't know the stats though.

There are 27 officials who have refereed Premier League games this season. Remarkably none of them support United. There are more referees who support Altricham and Droylesden than either of the Manchester big two.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4660 on: May 7, 2024, 08:57:41 pm »
No we don't.
 I'd imagine there's plenty who support United. Us and them are the best supported clubs in the country by a mile. I genuinely don't know the stats though.
I think we do. He grew up in a family of Man Utd fans. I’m a similar age to Taylor, and I know from growing up that is was extremely rare for any child growing up to support a different team to parents/siblings. It may be a little different now with access to the internet and social media etc, but back then it just didn’t happen. He is 100% a United fan.

As Eeyore has just mentioned, how is it possible that there isn’t one single Man Utd or Abu Dhabi supporting referee? It’s dodgy as fuck.

Apparently Taylor buys a season ticket for Altrincham every season, even tho he can never make it to games due to work. :lmao
« Last Edit: May 7, 2024, 09:18:53 pm by JRed »

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4661 on: May 8, 2024, 08:19:18 am »
I think we do. He grew up in a family of Man Utd fans. I’m a similar age to Taylor, and I know from growing up that is was extremely rare for any child growing up to support a different team to parents/siblings. It may be a little different now with access to the internet and social media etc, but back then it just didn’t happen. He is 100% a United fan.

As Eeyore has just mentioned, how is it possible that there isn’t one single Man Utd or Abu Dhabi supporting referee? It’s dodgy as fuck.

Apparently Taylor buys a season ticket for Altrincham every season, even tho he can never make it to games due to work. :lmao

What's the evidence for the bolded bit? I'm genuinely curious.

Just by the way, Man Utd fans hate him for some reason. A couple of incidents that I think they see as particularly egregious, but I'm pretty sure all of us would scoff at.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4662 on: May 8, 2024, 08:24:59 am »
What's the evidence for the bolded bit? I'm genuinely curious.

Just by the way, Man Utd fans hate him for some reason. A couple of incidents that I think they see as particularly egregious, but I'm pretty sure all of us would scoff at.
Someone said so on here, so it must be true.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4663 on: May 8, 2024, 09:58:11 am »
A fan in the MEN sums it up perfectly.

"There feels an element of Gary Neville's approach to commentating on United in Taylor's reffing, in that he's trying so hard not to be seen as biased that he's swung the other way."
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4664 on: May 8, 2024, 11:34:17 am »
What's the evidence for the bolded bit? I'm genuinely curious.

Just by the way, Man Utd fans hate him for some reason. A couple of incidents that I think they see as particularly egregious, but I'm pretty sure all of us would scoff at.

They come from Wythenshawe, I'd imagine a great number of them are Utd fans.

Maybe people forget with cheaty how few fans they actually have, especially local ones, you are far more likely to get a cheaty fan from outside of Manchester. You are also far more likely to get a ref who has no affiliation with any club becoming subconsciously bias after a few all expense trips abroad.
« Last Edit: May 8, 2024, 11:37:24 am by Draex »

Offline BoRed

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4665 on: May 8, 2024, 12:35:30 pm »
There are 27 officials who have refereed Premier League games this season. Remarkably none of them support United. There are more referees who support Altricham and Droylesden than either of the Manchester big two.

Seen this recently, no idea what the source is:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F1qo1f8jbudwc1.jpeg

Just 20 refs on this list, not 27, but its striking that five out of those 20 don't do Liverpool (or Everton) games. Presumably, some because they like us, some because they hate us, some because they're from Liverpool.

This, in itself, is probably not surprising. What is remarkable, though, is that there's not a single ref there that doesn't do Man Utd (or City). To start with, many are from (Greater) Manchester. And if you picked 20 random people across England who were all growing up in the 1990s, how likely would it be that none of them had any (either positive or negative) feelings towards Man Utd? And these are not random people, they are people who obviously had some affinity with football all along.

Also interesting, "Darren Bond, from Wigan, never involved in Liverpool, Everton or Wigan Athletic matches" and "Paul Tierney, from Wigan, Wigan Athletic fan" (record breaking involvement in Liverpool matches).

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4666 on: May 8, 2024, 02:00:09 pm »
PGMOL next season
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Offline tray fenny

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4667 on: May 8, 2024, 03:11:34 pm »
They come from Wythenshawe, I'd imagine a great number of them are Utd fans.

Maybe people forget with cheaty how few fans they actually have, especially local ones, you are far more likely to get a cheaty fan from outside of Manchester. 
This isnt true, i worked in Stretford & then Walkden for about 5 years. The lads & girls in Stretford were all city, i was really shocked and they were ALL hardcore match goers. Stretford. A few man u in Walkden but about even.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4668 on: May 8, 2024, 03:16:51 pm »
This isnt true, i worked in Stretford & then Walkden for about 5 years. The lads & girls in Stretford were all city, i was really shocked and they were ALL hardcore match goers. Stretford. A few man u in Walkden but about even.
How many Altrincham fans?

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4669 on: May 8, 2024, 03:24:37 pm »
This isnt true, i worked in Stretford & then Walkden for about 5 years. The lads & girls in Stretford were all city, i was really shocked and they were ALL hardcore match goers. Stretford. A few man u in Walkden but about even.

I live in Urmston, most people I know from Stretford support Utd, same with Walkden. My kid is in reception mainly utd shirts, few cheaty and one liverpool :D

I'd say in any manchester town it's 10 to 1 Utd to Cheaty supporters.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4670 on: May 8, 2024, 03:51:29 pm »
This isnt true, i worked in Stretford & then Walkden for about 5 years. The lads & girls in Stretford were all city, i was really shocked and they were ALL hardcore match goers. Stretford. A few man u in Walkden but about even.

I used to work in Whythensaw - every fan I knew from there supported United.

I also used to work in Cheadle - every fan I knew from there supported City


Manchester is just plain weird - like London, I suppose - or maybe it's Liverpool that's weird? In every Liverpool home you'll have blues and reds, but in manchester (And it seems other cities) then if you live HERE then you support THIS TEAM.


I accept that in this day and age that has deffo changed with the global game - I see kids in Liverpool wearing City, Barca, Madrid and other football shirts.

Back in the day, they'd be Reds and Blues and back in the day (When Taylor was growing up) - you supported the team from your area that your family support (Though I have heard of random exceptions to this with manc fans supporting City or United - but I have yet to meet a single Manc that doesn't support City or United - from what I've read, Altricham fans don't just suppor them in the same way Southport or Marine or Bootle or Runcorn fans don't / didn't just support that lower club - every single 'lower league' fan I have met in my life also supports a 'bigger club' - in the case of those 'lower league' fans coming from in or around a City - then they tend to also support one of the major teams there)
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4671 on: May 8, 2024, 06:13:29 pm »
How many Altrincham fans?
They all support Weatherfield County and idolise Tommy Orpington, even though he bagged off with Tracey Barlow.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4672 on: May 8, 2024, 06:26:04 pm »
They all support Weatherfield County and idolise Tommy Orpington, even though he bagged off with Tracey Barlow.
That’s ok then, they can still ref our games and the manc clubs.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4673 on: May 8, 2024, 06:51:17 pm »
London is quite regional but not exclusively so. Seem to be a lot of Arsenal fans in West London. And probably glory hunting Chelsea fans (from a few years back anyway) dotted all over. The likes of Palace, Wham, Fulham and Brentford from a smaller catchment area.

Although Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham all spill out to the Home Counties a fair bit too I’d say.

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4674 on: May 8, 2024, 09:07:20 pm »
I used to work in Whythensaw - every fan I knew from there supported United.

I also used to work in Cheadle - every fan I knew from there supported City



Manchester is just plain weird - like London, I suppose - or maybe it's Liverpool that's weird? In every Liverpool home you'll have blues and reds, but in manchester (And it seems other cities) then if you live HERE then you support THIS TEAM.


I accept that in this day and age that has deffo changed with the global game - I see kids in Liverpool wearing City, Barca, Madrid and other football shirts.

Back in the day, they'd be Reds and Blues and back in the day (When Taylor was growing up) - you supported the team from your area that your family support (Though I have heard of random exceptions to this with manc fans supporting City or United - but I have yet to meet a single Manc that doesn't support City or United - from what I've read, Altricham fans don't just suppor them in the same way Southport or Marine or Bootle or Runcorn fans don't / didn't just support that lower club - every single 'lower league' fan I have met in my life also supports a 'bigger club' - in the case of those 'lower league' fans coming from in or around a City - then they tend to also support one of the major teams there)

Unless they went on to become Premier League referees. Then they supported Cheadle Town and Wythenshawe Town.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4675 on: May 8, 2024, 11:21:40 pm »
Unless they went on to become Premier League referees. Then they supported Cheadle Town and Wythenshawe Town.

But you're using Andy's claim that everyone he knows in Wythenshawe is a United fan as some sort of unimpeachable argument that couldn't possibly be disagreed with ;D the keys to this thread have well and truly been handed over to the inmates (or is it patients?) In a couple of pages we'll have someone else state that Taylor grew up a Utd fan as a fact, and the fact that Andy knew exclusively Utd fans in Wythenshawe will be the supporting evidence, and JRed knowing that back in his day you only supported the same team as your parents (and his parents were definitely Utd fans, because they were from Wythenshawe) is equally conclusive, and Luton get lots of different refs but we don't, and that is why Taylor told Areola to go down.

It's all so self-perpetuating and conspiratorial when honestly, almost certainly, they're just quite shit at their jobs, have rubbish, informal processes and do whatever they can to try to cover their arses. We've been unlucky to be on the receiving end of a lot of the results of that -agreed - but if you truly believe they just won't let us win, unless you're going to do something about it, what's the fucking point?
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4676 on: May 8, 2024, 11:51:22 pm »
But you're using Andy's claim that everyone he knows in Wythenshawe is a United fan as some sort of unimpeachable argument that couldn't possibly be disagreed with ;D the keys to this thread have well and truly been handed over to the inmates (or is it patients?) In a couple of pages we'll have someone else state that Taylor grew up a Utd fan as a fact, and the fact that Andy knew exclusively Utd fans in Wythenshawe will be the supporting evidence, and JRed knowing that back in his day you only supported the same team as your parents (and his parents were definitely Utd fans, because they were from Wythenshawe) is equally conclusive, and Luton get lots of different refs but we don't, and that is why Taylor told Areola to go down.

It's all so self-perpetuating and conspiratorial when honestly, almost certainly, they're just quite shit at their jobs, have rubbish, informal processes and do whatever they can to try to cover their arses. We've been unlucky to be on the receiving end of a lot of the results of that -agreed - but if you truly believe they just won't let us win, unless you're going to do something about it, what's the fucking point?

I'm not saying Taylor is a United fan, but referees from that area shouldn't be getting our games as a general rule, certainly not Liverpool-United. Yet we get them all the time.

There was an enough fuss over the years when Mike Dean (a snob from the posh part of the Wirral and by any measure a Tranmere fanatic) got given a Liverpool game.
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4677 on: May 9, 2024, 10:16:01 am »
But you're using Andy's claim that everyone he knows in Wythenshawe is a United fan as some sort of unimpeachable argument that couldn't possibly be disagreed with ;D the keys to this thread have well and truly been handed over to the inmates (or is it patients?) In a couple of pages we'll have someone else state that Taylor grew up a Utd fan as a fact, and the fact that Andy knew exclusively Utd fans in Wythenshawe will be the supporting evidence, and JRed knowing that back in his day you only supported the same team as your parents (and his parents were definitely Utd fans, because they were from Wythenshawe) is equally conclusive, and Luton get lots of different refs but we don't, and that is why Taylor told Areola to go down.

The thing is it is you who is conflating loads of issues and then trying to bind them together in some grand strawman conspiracy. Then looking to ridicule it. The environment Taylor grew up in which was a staunch anti-Liverpool area is enough to disqualify him from refereeing Liverpool games. Even more so games involving a Manchester and Liverpool based team in direct opposition.

The vast majority of people from Manchester dislike scousers and especially Liverpool FC. That in itself is grounds for Manchester officials not to referee games involving Liverpool. It is the PGMOL who have come up with the absurd rule that it becomes okay if you put down on your form that you support a lower League or none League team.

It is preposterous. Imagine if Bayern had rocked up at the Santiago Bernabeu and found out the referee was from Madrid. Would they say that's okay he doesn't support Real or Atletico he is a fan of Rayo Majadahonda. Of course they wouldn't. So why should Liverpool have to put up with continually being officiated by Manchester-based officials, especially when we play United or City.

It's all so self-perpetuating and conspiratorial when honestly, almost certainly, they're just quite shit at their jobs, have rubbish, informal processes and do whatever they can to try to cover their arses. We've been unlucky to be on the receiving end of a lot of the results of that -agreed - but if you truly believe they just won't let us win, unless you're going to do something about it, what's the fucking point?

Being shit at their job is hugely convenient. These are officials who are professionals. Have unbelievable resources at their disposal and are ranked as some of the best officials in the World.

Again why come out with exaggerated comments such as they won't allow us to win?

For me it is very simple the way the PGMOL corruptly allows bias whether conscious or subconscious both to play out and then defends it makes it less likely that Liverpool will win domestic trophies. It doesn't make it impossible. Over long hard seasons that come down to tight margins then allowing bias to flourish results in the final table being skewed.

I will flip the question if you truly believe that City cheating makes them almost certain to win the League then why fucking bother?
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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4678 on: May 9, 2024, 10:26:25 am »
London is quite regional but not exclusively so. Seem to be a lot of Arsenal fans in West London. And probably glory hunting Chelsea fans (from a few years back anyway) dotted all over. The likes of Palace, Wham, Fulham and Brentford from a smaller catchment area.

Although Spurs, Arsenal and West Ham all spill out to the Home Counties a fair bit too I’d say.

I'm not from London but I worked there for a while. Weirdly, I found West Ham fans everywhere. I remember starting a new teaching job and sitting in the staff room and a guy started talking to me about football. He asked me who I supported and when I answered Liverpool, he shot back "You don't sound like a Scouser, are you from there originally?" When I said no, he got annoyed and said everyone should support their local team. I just smiled and calmly asked him who he supported. He said "West Ham". I then asked him where he was from and without a shred of awareness or irony he said "Charlton"

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Re: The corruption fallacy - they’re all out to get us!
« Reply #4679 on: May 9, 2024, 10:51:07 am »
But you're using Andy's claim that everyone he knows in Wythenshawe is a United fan as some sort of unimpeachable argument that couldn't possibly be disagreed with ;D the keys to this thread have well and truly been handed over to the inmates (or is it patients?) In a couple of pages we'll have someone else state that Taylor grew up a Utd fan as a fact, and the fact that Andy knew exclusively Utd fans in Wythenshawe will be the supporting evidence, and JRed knowing that back in his day you only supported the same team as your parents (and his parents were definitely Utd fans, because they were from Wythenshawe) is equally conclusive, and Luton get lots of different refs but we don't, and that is why Taylor told Areola to go down.

It's all so self-perpetuating and conspiratorial when honestly, almost certainly, they're just quite shit at their jobs, have rubbish, informal processes and do whatever they can to try to cover their arses. We've been unlucky to be on the receiving end of a lot of the results of that -agreed - but if you truly believe they just won't let us win, unless you're going to do something about it, what's the fucking point?

Just stating the facts at the time. It came up in conversation and it was Mancs themselves telling me how it was in Manchester - as it differered a lot from Liverpool families and Everton/Liverpool FC..

But they were probably wrong, growing up in Manchester themselves. You clearly know far more than them, so I'll bow to your superior knowledge on this.
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