Topic: LFC's next manager - chat and informed speculation

[killer-heels]

It can’t be understated that Alonso will have watched us go toe to toe with the financially doped Man City again and again, only to be pipped by a side that’s created an uneven playing field, despite being nearly perfect ourselves and having a once in a generation manager.

And then you have to consider that with the emergence of Arsenal, Newcastle trying to replicate Man City, the inevitability of Chelsea/Man Utd returning to the fore amongst others - the PL is a much, much more difficult league to win than La Liga/Bundesliga. It’s so easy to slip out of that top 4.

And we are a club that will continue to spend frugally, with a transfer budget that will pale in comparison to the other clubs around the top of the table. Whoever takes the job has to do so with the wholehearted acceptance that it will be somewhat of an uphill battle from day one, and success is far from guaranteed. Adversity will have to be embraced.

Considering the above - you can see why there might be some hesitance to take the job when you’re only two years into management, and your other options are 1) winning guaranteed titles and gaining CL experience with Bayern or 2) taking a bit more time to oversee the project at Leverkusen and then managing a super team with the likes of Bellingham, Mbappe, Endrick, Camavinga etc in Madrid…

What is the attraction at Madrid for a young coach? You hardly have any say in transfers, you are 3 bad performances away from the sack and quite frankly you can win the lot and still be questioned about your ability as a coach. Obviously Ancelotti is rated for his work before Madrid but look at Zidane, he has won 3 CL’s and still people question whether he is an actual good manager or not.

As for the PL, only managers who are weak look at it and be scared by it. Despite all the challenges, Klopp has had us competing and im sorry but I cant be afraid of Man United, Chelsea or Arsenal. We are a club as big as United and bigger than Chelsea and Arsenal. We should not be fearing them.

There are numerous reasons why Alonso may not come here. Im not invested in him compared to others. But if the fear of competition is one then surely even the most ardent fan must be comforted that the person isnt the right manager for us?

[Nick110581]

Why aren’t we getting Alonso then ?

Is there anything concrete to suggest we won’t?

[Tobelius]

What is the attraction at Madrid for a young coach? You hardly have any say in transfers, you are 3 bad performances away from the sack and quite frankly you can win the lot and still be questioned about your ability as a coach. Obviously Ancelotti is rated for his work before Madrid but look at Zidane, he has won 3 CL’s and still people question whether he is an actual good manager or not.

As for the PL, only managers who are weak look at it and be scared by it. Despite all the challenges, Klopp has had us competing and im sorry but I cant be afraid of Man United, Chelsea or Arsenal. We are a club as big as United and bigger than Chelsea and Arsenal. We should not be fearing them.

There are numerous reasons why Alonso may not come here. Im not invested in him compared to others. But if the fear of competition is one then surely even the most ardent fan must be comforted that the person isnt the right manager for us?

Good post k-h.

[spider-neil]

Why aren’t we getting Alonso then ?

Is there anything concrete to suggest we won’t?

A good source in Germany has said Alonso is leaning (not literally) toward Munich.

[Samie]

You mean a Bayern fanboy. 

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

I understand Amorim looks very promising but I understand from the stat heads that the underlying numbers are good (Jack and your nerd boner I am looking on your direction)

I am really interested in this so could I see these numbers? I want to properly get Amorim, because at the moment the main thing selling to me is the unknown of him (I don't know if he is an uninspiring pick, unlike most other names touted for the job)

Because my big worry with Amorim is he is a big fish in a small pond so to speak (that's an unfair way to put it, I am just worried about the likes of AVB's display as a manager, or someone like Ten Hag, and how performance in a smaller league translates to the Premier League)

Villas-Boas was a very promising coach who just made the silly decision to go to the wrong club at the wrong time. If anything he was a bit ahead of his time - he was derided for his high line, but look where football is now. It's just that he was never going to fit in at Chelsea when they've had their most success playing shit-on-a-stick tactics and with players like Terry clinging on.

Even at Spurs he did well. Guided them to a record points total, and they were only 7th in the league when he got sacked, which was also the season after they sold Bale and blew the money.

[rafathegaffa83]

Because my big worry with Amorim is he is a big fish in a small pond so to speak (that's an unfair way to put it, I am just worried about the likes of AVB's display as a manager, or someone like Ten Hag, and how performance in a smaller league translates to the Premier League)

I don't think Amorim can be viewed as a big fish in a small pond. He's helped break the Benfica-Porto duopoly. Sporting's title in 20/21 was their first in nearly 20 years.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

A good source in Germany has said Alonso is leaning (not literally) toward Munich.

Is Plettenberg a good source?

[Alan B'Stard]

What is the attraction at Madrid for a young coach? You hardly have any say in transfers, you are 3 bad performances away from the sack and quite frankly you can win the lot and still be questioned about your ability as a coach. Obviously Ancelotti is rated for his work before Madrid but look at Zidane, he has won 3 CL’s and still people question whether he is an actual good manager or not.

As for the PL, only managers who are weak look at it and be scared by it. Despite all the challenges, Klopp has had us competing and im sorry but I cant be afraid of Man United, Chelsea or Arsenal. We are a club as big as United and bigger than Chelsea and Arsenal. We should not be fearing them.

There are numerous reasons why Alonso may not come here. Im not invested in him compared to others. But if the fear of competition is one then surely even the most ardent fan must be comforted that the person isnt the right manager for us?

The Real Job is perhaps regarded as the pinnacle of world football. You'd automatically get the best players and the best chance of winning silverware each season.

Yes, from the outside looking in its a political head fcuk but why wouldn't you back yourself to be a success if given the opportunity? Alonso would be under pressure to hit the ground running at Madrid but it's no different if he came to Liverpool. The expectation is just as big!

I'm on the fence with Alonso. He has done a fantastic job at Leverkusen, no question but there is a part of me that thinks we should go for a more established figure to succeed Klopp.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

I don't think Amorim can be viewed as a big fish in a small pond. He's helped break the Benfica-Porto duopoly. Sporting's title in 20/21 was their first in nearly 20 years.

It's just the general fear of this being done in Portugal and his record in Europe, while improved, isn't necessarily brilliant. He is, in my eyes without the knowledge, a real risk of an appointment because he hasn't made the step up as a manager. He has done really really well at his level, and deserves a bigger job, but with clarity that he may not actually translate that well to it.

Same can be said about Alonso to be fair except from another angle - he seemingly is doing it at the higher level, question is just can he keep doing it.

Any manager we get is a risk to be fair, this isn't 2015 when we had Klopp or Ancelotti two genuine world class proven managers, it has to be a risk appointment, with Amorim and Alonso probably being the two not with the least risk, but the biggest potential upside.

But again yeah with Amorim it is Portugal. Like with any player we get from there I would question what points to them being a great fit. Are there stats to back it up somewhat. He's already my second choice (based on surface level knowledge and not liking the other names choices) but what more is there to know to say "Yeah he's the real deal"

[Stockholm Syndrome]

The Real Job is perhaps regarded as the pinnacle of world football. You'd automatically get the best players and the best chance of winning silverware each season.

Yes, from the outside looking in its a political head fcuk but why wouldn't you back yourself to be a success if given the opportunity? Alonso would be under pressure to hit the ground running at Madrid but it's no different if he came to Liverpool. The expectation is just as big!

I'm on the fence with Alonso. He has done a fantastic job at Leverkusen, no question but there is a part of me that thinks we should go for a more established figure to succeed Klopp.

Who would a more established figure be? Who is there who is established, and is:

1) At a quality to get us challenging for the title rather than challenging for top 4
2) Who isn't using tactics and a style contrary to how we play
3) Who isn't a toxic dickhead that will disrupt dressing room culture

The only name that remotely fits to me is Hansi Flick, who frankly doesn't seem to have the desire for it, and doesn't really want to be a manager except for highly specific circumstances

[Garlic Red]

Yeah, we tend to sneer at the Madrid job but it’s undeniable how huge it is and the pull of managing the very best players can’t be ignored.

The reason Zidane didn’t really get huge praise was because it felt like he didn’t really change all that much when he went there. That side were a team of winners and he essentially let them do what they do best. It wasn’t like Guardiola where he implemented a real pure way of playing and built around La Masia players. It was a bit more manufactured and the groundwork had essentially been laid before Zidane took over by Mourinho and Ancelotti. Whether fans in foreign leagues give you the adulation or not is probably irrelevant, you get the adulation at that club and he may feel he’s the man that can really implement a style of football on the club that his predecessors probably didn’t.

I’ve never felt like Xabi was in a rush to get anywhere in his career. His attitude as a player appears to have carried into his attitude towards management. He may feel that the Bundesliga is a safer place for him to develop his management style than to manage Liverpool or Madrid after two seasons. I’ve said a few times, I think he’d be better off staying at Leverkusen than managing Bayern, but it’s a lot to ask for all of those players to remain for another year if they’ve got offers from the top clubs in Europe and the big contracts that come with those offers sat on the table. If he can’t keep the bulk of the squad together he’d be better off moving on. I think we’re a better option than Bayern, I do worry about Madrid, especially if City knock them out in Europe.

[Samie]

Amorim is actually younger than Xabi. he also didn't have a great time as a footballer, so had to work hard to become a coach.

[StevoHimself]

I'd be quite happy with either Xabi or Amorim, but have always felt fairly confident that it would be Xabi. Just always seemed the super obvious choice for both parties. I'd be quite suprised if he goes for Bayern, as this report is apparently suggesting.

[Alan B'Stard]

Who would a more established figure be? Who is there who is established, and is:

1) At a quality to get us challenging for the title rather than challenging for top 4
2) Who isn't using tactics and a style contrary to how we play
3) Who isn't a toxic dickhead that will disrupt dressing room culture

The only name that remotely fits to me is Hansi Flick, who frankly doesn't seem to have the desire for it, and doesn't really want to be a manager except for highly specific circumstances

I dont know to be honest. Initially I would have said Tuchel or Poch but given their current circumstances neither would be suited.

Emery or Simeone are good candidates. I always felt Emery wasn't given a fair crack at Arsenal even though he got them to a European final.

Would Simeone leave Madrid? He seems deeply rooted at that club so who knows.

[HardworkDedication]

When you read articles and watch videos on both Amorim and Alonso, I think it's clear as day who's style and personality is more similar to Klopp. And it isn't the person who most people want to become our next manager! I think Edwards will push for Amorim over Alonso myself.

[Samie]

That's a solid beard. 

[Samie]

https://twitter.com/DataMB_/status/1771850533629829556

Amorim's Sporting CP are statistically dominating the Primeira Liga this season :

🏅 Most goals
🏅 Most expected goals
🏅 Most shots on target
🏅 Most passes completed
🏅 Most passes per possession
🏅 Highest pass accuracy
🏅 Highest aerial duel %
🏅 Highest defensive duel %
🏅 Highest shots on target %

They sit first for 9 out of 18 team metrics. Absurd.

[SamLad]

It can’t be understated that Alonso will have watched us go toe to toe with the financially doped Man City again and again, only to be pipped by a side that’s created an uneven playing field, despite being nearly perfect ourselves and having a once in a generation manager.

And then you have to consider that with the emergence of Arsenal, Newcastle trying to replicate Man City, the inevitability of Chelsea/Man Utd returning to the fore amongst others - the PL is a much, much more difficult league to win than La Liga/Bundesliga. It’s so easy to slip out of that top 4.

And we are a club that will continue to spend frugally, with a transfer budget that will pale in comparison to the other clubs around the top of the table. Whoever takes the job has to do so with the wholehearted acceptance that it will be somewhat of an uphill battle from day one, and success is far from guaranteed. Adversity will have to be embraced.

Considering the above - you can see why there might be some hesitance to take the job when you’re only two years into management, and your other options are 1) winning guaranteed titles and gaining CL experience with Bayern or 2) taking a bit more time to oversee the project at Leverkusen and then managing a super team with the likes of Bellingham, Mbappe, Endrick, Camavinga etc in Madrid…

by that logic, nobody would want to manage in the PL.

[spider-neil]

Is Plettenberg a good source?

Yes, with regard to German signings.

[Alan B'Stard]

https://twitter.com/DataMB_/status/1771850533629829556

Amazing stats especially when you consider Porto and Benfica are the traditional big boys.

[SamLad]

Amorim is actually younger than Xabi. he also didn't have a great time as a footballer, so had to work hard to become a coach.

you're saying he not only faced - he overcame! - adversity?

[Samie]

Yes!

[spider-neil]

If our coaching staff are looking at Amorim I think it will be because there is a closer cross-over of playing styles. Faster to integrate more players that suit that style of play. With regard to Alonso, it's more possession-based but that leads to more control and more control wins more matches but may take longer to implement.

[jillcwhomever]

When you read articles and watch videos on both Amorim and Alonso, I think it's clear as day who's style and personality is more similar to Klopp. And it isn't the person who most people want to become our next manager! I think Edwards will push for Amorim over Alonso myself.

I'd be happy with either of them, they are best two candidates.

[SamLad]

Yes!

well, that's our search for a new manager sorted then.

[rafathegaffa83]

If our coaching staff are looking at Amorim I think it will be because there is a closer cross-over of playing styles. Faster to integrate more players that suit that style of play.

I think this aspect is often downplayed. It allows for much a more fluid transition and less need to delve into the transfer market.

[HardworkDedication]

I'd be happy with either of them, they are best two candidates.

Me too. I just think people sleep on Amorim because he's managing in Portugal

[StevoHimself]

Me too. I just think people sleep on Amorim because he's managing in Portugal

Something else I'm not sure people have mentioned on here is the fact that he's had his squad stripped of its best players year after year and continued to do well - something that shouldn't be the case here.

[spider-neil]

Something else I'm not sure people have mentioned on here is the fact that he's had his squad stripped of its best players year after year and continued to do well - something that shouldn't be the case here.

To be fair, Alonso had to deal with that with Sociodad.

[SamLad]

To be fair, Alonso had to deal with that with Sociodad.

hmmmm - that also sounds suspiciously like "adversity" .....

[Nick110581]

I would love Alonso but have no idea if his style would work here.

[rafathegaffa83]

To be fair, Alonso had to deal with that with Sociodad.

Different set of circumstances to be fair. One was managing a B team in the Spanish Second Division; the other is trying to compete for domestic trophies and in European competition. There would have been an expectation for Alonso's best players to move to the senior team, as Real Sociedad B is primarily about developing players for the first team.

[Schmidt]

If our coaching staff are looking at Amorim I think it will be because there is a closer cross-over of playing styles. Faster to integrate more players that suit that style of play. With regard to Alonso, it's more possession-based but that leads to more control and more control wins more matches but may take longer to implement.

I think a closer play style is a double-edged sword.

We've made a habit of signing incredibly durable players and then breaking them anyway. There are a ton of factors leading to these injuries but I'm sure the intensity we play at and the number of games we play doesn't help, so we may see a more possession-based style as the right next step.

Pressing has also become extremely common in the PL, Klopp is just such a good coach that he has us doing it better than anyone. At some point however you need to evolve and start looking at how best to counteract the pressing that most other teams do. Again, a more possession-based style can be a help here. If you look at Real Madrid for example and how we've struggled against them in recent seasons, they tend to just pass around our press with relative comfort and it makes pressing teams tire themselves out chasing the ball.

[kloppismydad]

Not sure why people are turning their noses at Nageslmann. Did extremely well with RB Leipzig, won the double at Bayern in his first season, and got sacked while being behind Dortmund by 1 point.

His CL record is also pretty solid, and his style of play will suit our players too.

[SamLad]

I think a closer play style is a double-edged sword.

We've made a habit of signing incredibly durable players and then breaking them anyway. There are a ton of factors leading to these injuries but I'm sure the intensity we play at and the number of games we play doesn't help, so we may see a more possession-based style as the right next step.

Pressing has also become extremely common in the PL, Klopp is just such a good coach that he has us doing it better than anyone. At some point however you need to evolve and start looking at how best to counteract the pressing that most other teams do. Again, a more possession-based style can be a help here. If you look at Real Madrid for example and how we've struggled against them in recent seasons, they tend to just pass around our press with relative comfort and it makes pressing teams tire themselves out chasing the ball.

agreed, and if Xabi came in and wanted to transition our style of play I can't see it requiring a huge overhaul of the squad.  we have a ton of very talented, skillful, smart players.

any personnel changes could very easily be done over time.

[HardworkDedication]

Something else I'm not sure people have mentioned on here is the fact that he's had his squad stripped of its best players year after year and continued to do well - something that shouldn't be the case here.

Very good point.

[Tobelius]

I think a closer play style is a double-edged sword.

We've made a habit of signing incredibly durable players and then breaking them anyway. There are a ton of factors leading to these injuries but I'm sure the intensity we play at and the number of games we play doesn't help, so we may see a more possession-based style as the right next step.

Pressing has also become extremely common in the PL, Klopp is just such a good coach that he has us doing it better than anyone. At some point however you need to evolve and start looking at how best to counteract the pressing that most other teams do. Again, a more possession-based style can be a help here. If you look at Real Madrid for example and how we've struggled against them in recent seasons, they tend to just pass around our press with relative comfort and it makes pressing teams tire themselves out chasing the ball.

Good points,though on the other hand we'd imo propably need 3/4 of the team to have some of the best technical and passing attributes in Europe to make it work as well as at Real,like Xabi Alonso good.
Those players would be extremely expensive and hard to get and we'd need a different approach to our training and drilling which could take time.
Still,would be fun to see it implemented one day at Liverpool,could be as enjoyable to watch and effective as the gegenpress has been just different.

[RedSince86]

I'm warming to Almorim.

[jillcwhomever]

Me too. I just think people sleep on Amorim because he's managing in Portugal

Some people have just set their hearts on having Alonso I think. But my biggest fear going with him is that his style is different and it may take a while for it to come together. Amorim's style is the most similar to Klopp.