Author Topic: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK  (Read 3780 times)

Offline So… Howard Philips

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‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« on: October 31, 2022, 12:33:55 pm »
Further proof that American inspired conspiracy theory nuts are now spreading their poison in the UK - that terrorist attacks are staged by actors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63412651

And one of the supporters of these theories turns out to be a mental health worker who was shocked that the online abuse generated towards the survivors was harmful. You couldn’t make up the how twisted some peoples thought processes have become.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2022, 01:49:08 pm »
From your link... "Nearly one in five people in the UK think terror survivors are not telling the truth about what happened to them, new research for the BBC suggests. A third say the pandemic has made them more suspicious of official explanations of UK terror attacks."

Even allowing for some margin of error in their research that is absolutely crazy.  If you'd have asked me I'd have guessed at less than one in 100 but even that would mean over half a million adults believing such nonsense.  One in five would equate to 10 million adults in the UK!

I don't know what the solution is.  Critical thinking lessons in school?  A government that don't gaslight the electorate constantly?

Offline rob1966

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2022, 01:56:24 pm »
Further proof that American inspired conspiracy theory nuts are now spreading their poison in the UK - that terrorist attacks are staged by actors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63412651

And one of the supporters of these theories turns out to be a mental health worker who was shocked that the online abuse generated towards the survivors was harmful. You couldn’t make up the how twisted some peoples thought processes have become.

I'll tell the parents of friends of friends, that their teenage daughter who died at the MEN isn't really dead and was just an actor

Fucking sick c*nts, fucking hate this country at times.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2022, 01:58:54 pm »
What I am not sure about is whether these utterly nuts and often offensive conspiracy theories ever really existed to any great extent before the internet or has the internet just given more oxygen to the lunatics peddling this stuff ? 
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2022, 02:00:28 pm »
What I am not sure about is whether these utterly nuts and often offensive conspiracy theories ever really existed to any great extent before the internet or has the internet just given more oxygen to the lunatics peddling this stuff ? 

Ask the parents of Sandy Hook.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2022, 02:10:55 pm »
From your link... "Nearly one in five people in the UK think terror survivors are not telling the truth about what happened to them, new research for the BBC suggests. A third say the pandemic has made them more suspicious of official explanations of UK terror attacks."

Even allowing for some margin of error in their research that is absolutely crazy.  If you'd have asked me I'd have guessed at less than one in 100 but even that would mean over half a million adults believing such nonsense.  One in five would equate to 10 million adults in the UK!

I don't know what the solution is.  Critical thinking lessons in school?  A government that don't gaslight the electorate constantly?

Would be interested to know how the question was phrased, because I too cannot believe there is such a high percentage of people that believe this crap.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2022, 02:36:04 pm »
If it suits peoples over-arching personal ideology (even if they don’t know what that means) they will use any argument to justify themselves.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2022, 06:05:10 pm »
Would be interested to know how the question was phrased, because I too cannot believe there is such a high percentage of people that believe this crap.

These are the same english cretins who have repeatedly voted Tory, voted for Bunter and for Brexit.
 I'm surprised its only 1 in 5.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2022, 06:16:57 pm »
These are the same english cretins who have repeatedly voted Tory, voted for Bunter and for Brexit.
 I'm surprised its only 1 in 5.

I’d be surprised they vote because the Poll Clerk at the voting station will attach micro bugs to them as they push their vote into the ballot box.

Offline Riquende

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2022, 07:58:28 pm »
I've thought a few times that RAWK could do with a catch-all thread for all the people who just seem to be becoming detached from reality. People like this, anti-vaxxers, sovereign citizens (or 'freemen of the land' in the UK), Qanon and its various splinters like the Romulan Dildos - you see it cropping up in the more serious news threads from time to time, but more frequently. The recent Pelosi attack seems to have been perpetrated by a Qanon nutcase.

I think it's a real problem for a country when its population stops being able to agree on which basic facts are true, rather than just having a difference of opinion on what should be done about things.

What I am not sure about is whether these utterly nuts and often offensive conspiracy theories ever really existed to any great extent before the internet or has the internet just given more oxygen to the lunatics peddling this stuff ? 

I think they existed previously, but the modern internet gives everyone a platform and so they're amplified far more than they ever were before. Not to mention the fact that communities of these people are able to form and self-perpetuate.

Not to (further) mention troll accounts created in foreign countries with the express purpose of spreading this stuff. A lot easier now than when you had to drop leaflets from the air.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2022, 08:33:35 pm by Riquende »
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2022, 08:24:28 pm »
From your link... "Nearly one in five people in the UK think terror survivors are not telling the truth about what happened to them, new research for the BBC suggests. A third say the pandemic has made them more suspicious of official explanations of UK terror attacks."

Even allowing for some margin of error in their research that is absolutely crazy.  If you'd have asked me I'd have guessed at less than one in 100 but even that would mean over half a million adults believing such nonsense.  One in five would equate to 10 million adults in the UK!

I don't know what the solution is.  Critical thinking lessons in school?  A government that don't gaslight the electorate constantly?
The potential margin of error is huge...
67.3 million people in UK and the poll claims to of asked 4,000 people... 1 person asked out of every 16,832 people.   

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2022, 08:25:27 pm »
The potential margin of error is huge...
67.3 million people in UK and the poll claims to of asked 4,000 people... 1 person asked out of every 16,832 people.

For a poll, a sample size of 4000 is pretty big, with a margin of error well below 3%.

Offline reddebs

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2022, 09:08:46 pm »
What are 'sovereign citizens'?

Offline BarryCrocker

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2022, 09:10:08 pm »
What are 'sovereign citizens'?

People who think they're exempt from the laws of the land.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2022, 09:12:53 pm »
People who think they're exempt from the laws of the land.

Thank you 👍

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2022, 09:47:37 pm »
Would be interested to know how the question was phrased, because I too cannot believe there is such a high percentage of people that believe this crap.

Think some of those might confuse "I don't understand / can't remember" with "it's all fabricated lies". For example, when asked about terror attacks in the UK, they can't think of one, but rather than to admit that, they claim that terror attacks didn't happen or were just made up. "I can't remember that, so it hasn't happened, and anybody who claims it did is lying."
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Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2022, 09:57:34 pm »
For a poll, a sample size of 4000 is pretty big, with a margin of error well below 3%.
I've read a similar stat in the past in regards to accuracy of polls relating to voting in elections and it's come from a sample of tens of thousands of opinion polls over many years  (then you look at Trump or Mother Theresa expected landslide in 2017   )  This however is a different kind of question and I doubt theres been enough polls of this nature to establish an accurate margin of error.

In all the years since it happened I've never heard or read of anyone saying it didn't happen, untill yesterday when I read the story. ( Yes I'm sure I could of gone swimming in the darker waters of the Internet and found something )

I'm thinking if 1 in 5 people believed it never happened I'd of heard at least one person saying it over the years. And given I've heard  some outlandish CT's from some acquaintances of mine  ;D I'm genuinely shocked 1 in 5 people believe that. 

Ps
On the nature of CT's... Now that this story has had some mainstream coverage I'm sure they'll be more people today believing  it didn't happen, than there was two days ago.   ::)

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2022, 10:44:03 pm »
The whole strategy of conspiracy theorists has changed over the past few years - the approach now is to immediately flood all available channels with disinformation until an alternative truth worms its way into the common psyche.

Take the Pelosi attack, for example. I was unable to resist the temptation to visit some of the forums I belong to where right wing thoughts are more prevalent. Mainly just to laugh at how they would rationalise and whatabout their way past it. But that's not really the game now. Instead, mere hours after initial reports, they were already writing lengthy posts about all the stuff that "doesn't add up". Very few definitive claims of course, "just asking questions". It's all about sowing doubt. Of course, when they go all CSI on the case, they leave holes you can attack - for instance, this guy said the broken glass was outside the home, proving there was no break in. No idea if the glass placement is even true, but the claim that glass false in the direction of breaking force is demonstrably false, as a few minutes' online research will show. But there's no value in dissecting these falsehoods, they just move on to the next thing. All about flooding the end zone with shit.

I actually find it strains my mental health when I get too close to it. And I think I'm pretty resilient in that respect - the last 5 years of my life have been extraordinarily stressful and traumatic, but I've managed to stay healthy... so if I struggle with this shit, it's hardly surprising that more vulnerable people are cracking. The only solution is to turn off, but these channels are more addictive than heroin.

Offline Sammy5IsAlive

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2022, 11:26:28 pm »
I’d be surprised they vote because the Poll Clerk at the voting station will attach micro bugs to them as they push their vote into the ballot box.

I remember tweets doing the rounds in one of the recent GEs telling people to bring their own pen/pencil as the one provided by the voting station could be erased and the vote changed  :butt.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #19 on: November 1, 2022, 12:46:06 am »
The main problem is a fall in standards of education. I imagine there is a correlation between education and the belief in such nonsense.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #20 on: November 1, 2022, 12:56:38 am »
The main problem is a fall in standards of education. I imagine there is a correlation between education and the belief in such nonsense.
I think it's equally to do with the strategy of "flooding the zone with shit".  People becoming so disorientated that they don't know who or what to trust anymore.

It's less impactful if you already view the likes of Bannon, Trump and Johnson as peddlers of lies but what about that old school friend on social media that now regularly posts this stuff?  What about a musician or footballer you used to idolise?  What about a generally moderate and sensible individual suddenly endorsing some conspiracy theory?

Offline redbyrdz

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #21 on: November 1, 2022, 07:58:46 am »
The main problem is a fall in standards of education. I imagine there is a correlation between education and the belief in such nonsense.

Rather than sinking education "standards", I think  it de-valuation of education, "had enough of experts", "those stupid students", "you don't need maths for life", combined with examples of footballers, singers, and youtubers who seemingly got famous without relying on any education.


But the other factor is the dominance of made-up stories as entertainment. Most people spend several hours a day watching all sorts of shite on TV. There's always "a mystery to be solved", "more than meets the eye", "not all is how it seems". They spend a lot of time thinking about that, so whem some sort of real-life event happens, they automatically also assume there's something more there than what is being said.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #22 on: November 1, 2022, 08:53:48 am »
What are 'sovereign citizens'?

It's a movement that has been around for a while, essentially people who believe that the existing legal systems are false and they know their 'real' rights. I first started seeing videos of them years ago, mostly at traffic stops in the US where they insisted that the laws didn't apply to them because 'driving' only related to commercial vehicles and what they were doing was 'travelling'. You can also see videos of them in court, invariably representing themselves and arguing with judges.

The recent high profile trial of Darrell Brooks featured a lot of SovCit nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waukesha_Christmas_parade_attack

Quote
In a pre-trial hearing, Brooks requested to represent himself and Judge Dorow considered and ruled that Brooks could proceed pro se. During proceedings, Brooks used arguments from the sovereign citizen movement, a pseudolegal movement whose adherents claim that courts do not have jurisdiction over them. Brooks declared himself a "sovereign citizen", stated that he did not consent to being recognized by his name, and argued that since the state of Wisconsin was an entity rather than a person, it could not file a claim against him. These arguments have not succeeded before in criminal trials; Judge Dorow ruled that Brooks was not allowed to argue that he was a sovereign citizen in court, stating that the defense was without merit. During his trial, Brooks was repeatedly removed from the courtroom after failing to comply with decorum; some of these instances included Brooks engaging in numerous interruptions, back talking, glaring at one point, and other outbursts with Judge Dorow. On October 24, 2022, Brooks was given the chance to offer the defense; however, due to Brooks' repeated misbehavior and failing to follow decorum, Judge Dorow ruled that he had forfeited his right to call further witnesses (which would have included his mother) and declared the evidentiary stage of the trial over. Closing arguments began October 25, and the jury deliberations began that same day.

The trial was on camera, you can see this guy just try to disrupt everything.

But in recent years these people have been merging with a lot of other groups, including conspiracy nuts of all flavours. A lot of them now believe that the US government is some sort of corporate entity owned by the City of London, and that Trump was/is working to restore the true Republic. Many believe in NESARA (or its international cousin, GESARA) - a great financial reset in which all debts will be forgiven, all taxes will be cancelled (and a refund of all tax paid will occur). There's recent madness over 'MedBeds' - magical healing technology that can make people younger, cure any disease, so on.

These brainworms are affecting people all over the world, but in the US specifically it's hard to ignore these promises of health and financial problems just being removed from your life, if only the wicked 'Deep State', who are blocking all this goodness, could be removed. Hence, all of this is dovetailing with the MAGA crowd and their Qanon buddies, and bing mixed with a great big slice of contempt for the 'Globalist Elite', which is of course a dogwhistle for Jews.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #23 on: November 1, 2022, 09:33:34 am »
I think it's equally to do with the strategy of "flooding the zone with shit".  People becoming so disorientated that they don't know who or what to trust anymore.

It's less impactful if you already view the likes of Bannon, Trump and Johnson as peddlers of lies but what about that old school friend on social media that now regularly posts this stuff?  What about a musician or footballer you used to idolise?  What about a generally moderate and sensible individual suddenly endorsing some conspiracy theory?
The problem is that with the Internet, the traditional gatekeepers of information have been sidelined and rendered practically irrelevant. The replacement gatekeepers are no such thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatekeeping_(communication)

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Offline Lusty

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #24 on: November 1, 2022, 11:55:42 am »
The problem is that with the Internet, the traditional gatekeepers of information have been sidelined and rendered practically irrelevant. The replacement gatekeepers are no such thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatekeeping_(communication)


I'm not actually convinced that the Internet has changed things that much.  If anything, it makes it easier to find reliable sources to refute this stuff.

Back before the Internet became mainstream this stuff was always about.  Every pub had a fella in there who looked like Neil from the Young Ones who would bang on about JFK or the Queen being a lizard or whatever.  You could never really challenge it then because you wouldn't have the facts at your fingertips like you do now.

I remember in the early days of the Internet stumbling across snopes.com and it was a real eye opener just browsing around and finding out how much stuff you assumed to be true was just made up nonsense.  Mainly harmless stuff about celebrities etc. but there were plenty of real conspiracy theories that you just kind of accepted if someone told you.

What has changed I think is that mainstream politicians have been able to use the Internet and social media to weaponise this kind of stuff.  It allows all of the pub bores across the world to find each other and organise, and people like Trump have found ways to direct them without ever publicly endorsing them.  Before they were just weird fellas hanging around the fruit machine but now they are an actual force.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #25 on: November 1, 2022, 12:23:30 pm »
I'm not actually convinced that the Internet has changed things that much.  If anything, it makes it easier to find reliable sources to refute this stuff.
The Internet is a double-edged sword. One the one hand, as you say, it is easier to find information. On the other, it is easier than ever to spread disinformation, find like-minded individuals, and for echo chambers to develop. The Internet is polarising in its effects and the negative side is winning, aided by financial incentives for the large platform operators to do nothing about it.
Quote
Back before the Internet became mainstream this stuff was always about.  Every pub had a fella in there who looked like Neil from the Young Ones who would bang on about JFK or the Queen being a lizard or whatever.  You could never really challenge it then because you wouldn't have the facts at your fingertips like you do now.
But now, they can easily find each other and can amplify their messages, pushing out reality from the general conversation. Further, there are psychopaths/sociopaths and megalomaniacs who readily jump in, spotting an opportunity to aggrandise themselves and make a fortune: the likes Infowars, Breitbart, MTG, Oz, Hay House, etc. etc. The general population relied upon gatekeepers - they are largely gone, replaced by those who have no interest in truth or even a stable, functioning society. The Internet has been a boon for psychopaths, the disaffected and loons.
Quote
I remember in the early days of the Internet stumbling across snopes.com and it was a real eye opener just browsing around and finding out how much stuff you assumed to be true was just made up nonsense.  Mainly harmless stuff about celebrities etc. but there were plenty of real conspiracy theories that you just kind of accepted if someone told you.
The quaint old days when conspiracy theories were things like, 'the moon landings were faked', etc., etc. Those things were a relatively small problem. But they turned into the thin end of the wedge with the Internet and the problem of conspiracy theories have exploded to almost unmanageable levels. Now, when you go the pub, instead of laughing at Neil, many of the patrons will now agree with him. Things have changed.
Quote
What has changed I think is that mainstream politicians have been able to use the Internet and social media to weaponise this kind of stuff.  It allows all of the pub bores across the world to find each other and organise, and people like Trump have found ways to direct them without ever publicly endorsing them.  Before they were just weird fellas hanging around the fruit machine but now they are an actual force.
So, you do agree that things have changed. But politicians were relatively late to the new game. When enough of the population were primed to believe any old shit, that's when it became possible for Trump, MTG, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and other like-minded nutters to operate successfully within politics. And is why people like Lyndon LaRouche (in the US) were small fry (before the Internet). LaRouche would have had field day if he was born forty years later.
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Offline Lusty

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #26 on: November 1, 2022, 12:47:37 pm »
So, you do agree that things have changed. But politicians were relatively late to the new game. When enough of the population were primed to believe any old shit, that's when it became possible for Trump, MTG, Johnson, Rees-Mogg and other like-minded nutters to operate successfully within politics. And is why people like Lyndon LaRouche (in the US) were small fry (before the Internet). LaRouche would have had field day if he was born forty years later.
I think where I think things have changed is the impact.  I don't think that there are more people believing this stuff than before, I just think they're having a greater impact because the Internet allows them to organise.

I have absolutely no data to back this up by the way, apart from my own experience.  I just remember plenty of people around peddling this stuff before the Internet, and I wouldn't say that out of the people I know in real life there are more of them believing this stuff than before.  It's just that the people I don't know are more visible.

I think you're wrong to characterise it as 'quaint' back in the day as well.  Particularly in the US this stuff would always bubble over into violence from time to time.  The Oklahoma bombings for example were influenced by conspiracy theories about the Waco seige.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #27 on: November 1, 2022, 12:47:38 pm »
What I am not sure about is whether these utterly nuts and often offensive conspiracy theories ever really existed to any great extent before the internet or has the internet just given more oxygen to the lunatics peddling this stuff ? 

They have always existed (Jewish Blood Libel for example) and have been around on the internet for years. I've done a few threads on them on here in the past. They were there but were generally a minority interest. The Moon Landings Hoax, Area 51 etc. The JFK Assassination achieved more cut through because of Oliver Stone's appalling JFK movie. In the UK and US the concept of truth has been undermined by the right-wing press.

9-11 increased the penetration of conspiracy thinking, especially through the impact of garbage YouTube videos like Loose Change, but the main change in my opinion has been the impact of Facebook and Twitter, which both use algorithms to prompt "you might also be interested in" suggestions.

There's a scary link that has been plotted from 'wellness' to QAnon and other extreme conspiracy theories.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #28 on: November 1, 2022, 01:04:03 pm »
It's a movement that has been around for a while, essentially people who believe that the existing legal systems are false and they know their 'real' rights. I first started seeing videos of them years ago, mostly at traffic stops in the US where they insisted that the laws didn't apply to them because 'driving' only related to commercial vehicles and what they were doing was 'travelling'. You can also see videos of them in court, invariably representing themselves and arguing with judges.

The recent high profile trial of Darrell Brooks featured a lot of SovCit nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waukesha_Christmas_parade_attack

The trial was on camera, you can see this guy just try to disrupt everything.

But in recent years these people have been merging with a lot of other groups, including conspiracy nuts of all flavours. A lot of them now believe that the US government is some sort of corporate entity owned by the City of London, and that Trump was/is working to restore the true Republic. Many believe in NESARA (or its international cousin, GESARA) - a great financial reset in which all debts will be forgiven, all taxes will be cancelled (and a refund of all tax paid will occur). There's recent madness over 'MedBeds' - magical healing technology that can make people younger, cure any disease, so on.

These brainworms are affecting people all over the world, but in the US specifically it's hard to ignore these promises of health and financial problems just being removed from your life, if only the wicked 'Deep State', who are blocking all this goodness, could be removed. Hence, all of this is dovetailing with the MAGA crowd and their Qanon buddies, and bing mixed with a great big slice of contempt for the 'Globalist Elite', which is of course a dogwhistle for Jews.

Cheers for that mate.

It sounds like a lot of kids who won't take no for an answer or refuse to take responsibility for the things they've done.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #29 on: November 1, 2022, 01:10:10 pm »
I'm not actually convinced that the Internet has changed things that much.  If anything, it makes it easier to find reliable sources to refute this stuff.

Back before the Internet became mainstream this stuff was always about.  Every pub had a fella in there who looked like Neil from the Young Ones who would bang on about JFK or the Queen being a lizard or whatever.  You could never really challenge it then because you wouldn't have the facts at your fingertips like you do now.

I remember in the early days of the Internet stumbling across snopes.com and it was a real eye opener just browsing around and finding out how much stuff you assumed to be true was just made up nonsense.  Mainly harmless stuff about celebrities etc. but there were plenty of real conspiracy theories that you just kind of accepted if someone told you.

What has changed I think is that mainstream politicians have been able to use the Internet and social media to weaponise this kind of stuff.  It allows all of the pub bores across the world to find each other and organise, and people like Trump have found ways to direct them without ever publicly endorsing them.  Before they were just weird fellas hanging around the fruit machine but now they are an actual force.

The problem in my view is how "mainstream" the internet has become. 15 or 20 years ago (when there was already loads of shite around like fake moonlanding or whatever) the internet was still a thing that people used for work like for writing e-mails or they were checking regular news sites from established media outlets who adhere to journalistic standards. There was still no real widespread use of the internet. Yes, you had people in message boards and you had all kinds of stuff floating around, but it was far from main stream. It was for people who had an interest in it and who actually made an effort to find what they were looking for (and they had to have something they were looking for, i.e. you needed people actively searching for an LFC-community for example to communicate with other reds).

All that has changed with social media and with smartphones. Nowadays, nearly everyone (at least in our part of the world) has a possibility to access the internet. My mum is 66 years old and she has never used a computer before other than for work in a very limited capacity. She now has a smartphone and even though she has no idea how to do the more complicated stuff like using facebook or other social media, she still reads those google news things she came across one time by accident. There are many more people like that around and a lot who dive a lot deeper into it by being on social media. The problem for me is, that too many people seem to have forgotten how to filter information or that they don't realise that every village idiot know has the possibility to share their crazy ideas on social media and via other means like youtube, etc. Social media like Facebook and the internet in general has too much credibility with a lot of people. "I've read it on Facebook/the internet, so it has to be true". It's how media used to work. If you read something in the newspaper or saw something on TV you could (and still very much can) believe that what you've read or seen is true (or at least as true as it can be going by journalistic standards, i.e. it has been fact checked).

People applied the same standards to the internet and social media, without realising that that's absolutely not the case. While you can find a shitload of very useful and great information, there's an equal amount of shite out there. And people have to learn to filter that out, just like they knew 30 years ago, that you let the idiot in your village talk about his crazy ideas, but you're not taking him seriously. The internet is basically a free for all for all the village idiots. The issue has been excacerbated by social media, where there's almost no quality control for information and where you can get caught in bubbles that reinforce your crazy viewpoints to the point where all the "good" information doesn't reach you or you just don't care about it, because you're getting all those links in your timeline to people who are saying that the Queen was a lizard or whatever. In a best case scenario, you get the same amount of links saying that the Queen isn't a lizard, but it would still suggest those viewpoints are basically 50-50 and it's up to you to decide which one to believe.

So, for me the issue is with the spread of the internet and all those possibilities that have come with it (like social media, publishing possibilities like youtube or setting up your own "news" website/blog). That's where it started. Since that has happened, of course a lot of bad actors (be that politicians, companies, interest groups, con-people, whatever) have seen the possibilities that has created for them and they're making full use of it. However, without the whole development technology has made in recent years/decades they couldn't have done so.

The scary thing for me is, that I don't see a possibility to reverse that development. The cat's out of the bag and there's no way to get it back inside, because the bag has about a million holes.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #30 on: November 1, 2022, 01:12:42 pm »
I've read a good few books about the most famous cult leaders. They were always on the lookout for new followers. Most of them had an ability to find a want in people. It took quite a bit of work however and often had them scouring the likes of bus stops for lost souls.

For me the Internet has replaced the need for physical recruitment.  Conspiracy theorists are part of the new cults and the narcissistic cult leaders have instant access to all the soft targets in the world. The likes of Alex Jones and Co are the new cult leaders and can have millions of followers with varying levels of fanaticism.  Most are harmless fools and then there's the ones who'll attack people with a hammer...

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #31 on: November 1, 2022, 02:14:51 pm »
When the conspiracy loons could be useful, they seem remarkably quiet about the Tories' The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is a bill that 1) makes it easier for data holders to share/sell information gathered on people (including selling it abroad); 2) makes it harder for people to find out what info is held on them, who it's been shared with, and what it is used for; 3) hands power to the government to make ad hoc amendments when it suits.

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/publications/analysis-the-uk-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill/

It must be opposed, and you'd have thought the conspiracy loons, with their fear of information on them being traded around so 'big buiness' can profit from them, would be all over it. But they don't seem to be (I'll caveat that with admitting I don't go into any conspiracy loon community sites so they may be, but just not very loudly or publicly).
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #32 on: November 1, 2022, 03:14:04 pm »
When the conspiracy loons could be useful, they seem remarkably quiet about the Tories' The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is a bill that 1) makes it easier for data holders to share/sell information gathered on people (including selling it abroad); 2) makes it harder for people to find out what info is held on them, who it's been shared with, and what it is used for; 3) hands power to the government to make ad hoc amendments when it suits.

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/publications/analysis-the-uk-data-protection-and-digital-information-bill/

It must be opposed, and you'd have thought the conspiracy loons, with their fear of information on them being traded around so 'big buiness' can profit from them, would be all over it. But they don't seem to be (I'll caveat that with admitting I don't go into any conspiracy loon community sites so they may be, but just not very loudly or publicly).

They're not, at least from anecdotal experience they don't give a toss as it's not what gets shown to them on insta and yt so it may as well not exist to them, thoroughly depressing.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #33 on: November 1, 2022, 03:44:26 pm »
They're not, at least from anecdotal experience they don't give a toss as it's not what gets shown to them on insta and yt so it may as well not exist to them, thoroughly depressing.

It's one of the tragic ironies that people who pride themselves on 'doing their own research' and 'not trusting the MSM' are most susceptible to the most obvious bollocks and would lap up information from places that have since been shown as either state-sponsored disinformation (RT) or right-wing (Infowars).
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #34 on: November 1, 2022, 04:10:21 pm »
The problem in my view is how "mainstream" the internet has become. 15 or 20 years ago (when there was already loads of shite around like fake moonlanding or whatever) the internet was still a thing that people used for work like for writing e-mails or they were checking regular news sites from established media outlets who adhere to journalistic standards. There was still no real widespread use of the internet. Yes, you had people in message boards and you had all kinds of stuff floating around, but it was far from main stream. It was for people who had an interest in it and who actually made an effort to find what they were looking for (and they had to have something they were looking for, i.e. you needed people actively searching for an LFC-community for example to communicate with other reds).

All that has changed with social media and with smartphones. Nowadays, nearly everyone (at least in our part of the world) has a possibility to access the internet. My mum is 66 years old and she has never used a computer before other than for work in a very limited capacity. She now has a smartphone and even though she has no idea how to do the more complicated stuff like using facebook or other social media, she still reads those google news things she came across one time by accident. There are many more people like that around and a lot who dive a lot deeper into it by being on social media. The problem for me is, that too many people seem to have forgotten how to filter information or that they don't realise that every village idiot know has the possibility to share their crazy ideas on social media and via other means like youtube, etc. Social media like Facebook and the internet in general has too much credibility with a lot of people. "I've read it on Facebook/the internet, so it has to be true". It's how media used to work. If you read something in the newspaper or saw something on TV you could (and still very much can) believe that what you've read or seen is true (or at least as true as it can be going by journalistic standards, i.e. it has been fact checked).

People applied the same standards to the internet and social media, without realising that that's absolutely not the case. While you can find a shitload of very useful and great information, there's an equal amount of shite out there. And people have to learn to filter that out, just like they knew 30 years ago, that you let the idiot in your village talk about his crazy ideas, but you're not taking him seriously. The internet is basically a free for all for all the village idiots. The issue has been excacerbated by social media, where there's almost no quality control for information and where you can get caught in bubbles that reinforce your crazy viewpoints to the point where all the "good" information doesn't reach you or you just don't care about it, because you're getting all those links in your timeline to people who are saying that the Queen was a lizard or whatever. In a best case scenario, you get the same amount of links saying that the Queen isn't a lizard, but it would still suggest those viewpoints are basically 50-50 and it's up to you to decide which one to believe.

So, for me the issue is with the spread of the internet and all those possibilities that have come with it (like social media, publishing possibilities like youtube or setting up your own "news" website/blog). That's where it started. Since that has happened, of course a lot of bad actors (be that politicians, companies, interest groups, con-people, whatever) have seen the possibilities that has created for them and they're making full use of it. However, without the whole development technology has made in recent years/decades they couldn't have done so.

The scary thing for me is, that I don't see a possibility to reverse that development. The cat's out of the bag and there's no way to get it back inside, because the bag has about a million holes.
This is a good point and I think the real issue is not the Internet but the advent of 'Web 2.0'.  I think a lot of my early enthusiasm came in the days when there was a barrier to entry and you had to at least know a bit of HTML or at least pay someone who did to get something on the Internet.  Now anyone can post anything on the Internet with little or no technical skills and, because controversy generates engagement, it will get prioritised into peoples feeds.

I do have more hope for the future than you though.  Kids who grow up in this environment are going to have to evolve at least a basic level of bullshit filtering.  At some point social media companies are going to have to figure out the content moderating problem, if nothing else because they'll be forced to by regulators or advertisers.  I think we're at the sharp end of this technology and it will eventually sort itself out.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #35 on: November 1, 2022, 04:22:31 pm »
There's also the problem of distinguishing "trust in a person" from "trust in what they say". If their lovely aunty forwards a whatsapp message, many people think it must be true, because their aunt wouldn't be lying. When it was the one idiot in the pub, everybody knew they talked gibberish.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #36 on: November 1, 2022, 05:59:01 pm »
It's a movement that has been around for a while, essentially people who believe that the existing legal systems are false and they know their 'real' rights. I first started seeing videos of them years ago, mostly at traffic stops in the US where they insisted that the laws didn't apply to them because 'driving' only related to commercial vehicles and what they were doing was 'travelling'. You can also see videos of them in court, invariably representing themselves and arguing with judges.

The recent high profile trial of Darrell Brooks featured a lot of SovCit nonsense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waukesha_Christmas_parade_attack

The trial was on camera, you can see this guy just try to disrupt everything.

But in recent years these people have been merging with a lot of other groups, including conspiracy nuts of all flavours. A lot of them now believe that the US government is some sort of corporate entity owned by the City of London, and that Trump was/is working to restore the true Republic. Many believe in NESARA (or its international cousin, GESARA) - a great financial reset in which all debts will be forgiven, all taxes will be cancelled (and a refund of all tax paid will occur). There's recent madness over 'MedBeds' - magical healing technology that can make people younger, cure any disease, so on.

These brainworms are affecting people all over the world, but in the US specifically it's hard to ignore these promises of health and financial problems just being removed from your life, if only the wicked 'Deep State', who are blocking all this goodness, could be removed. Hence, all of this is dovetailing with the MAGA crowd and their Qanon buddies, and bing mixed with a great big slice of contempt for the 'Globalist Elite', which is of course a dogwhistle for Jews.

This I can actually see why people would believe it. You can't look at our Government for example and what has gone on over the past 12 year and not wonder if it is actually wholly owned/ran/influenced by big business/the extremely rich, so its not a mad jump to think that the Governments are actually owned.

It's also quite understandable that people would believe that cures for illnesses are buried as there is such a huge amount of money to be made from selling the pills.
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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #37 on: November 1, 2022, 06:21:01 pm »
There's also the CT that the big pharma's create diseases so they can make money from treating them rather than finding cures.

I seem to remember Aids being chemical warfare gone wrong, that it was only meant to kill gay men then that changed to black Africans to keep the population down.


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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #38 on: November 1, 2022, 06:33:16 pm »
But the thinking that someone is sitting on a cure for cancer which would be worth fortunes so they can make money is of course absurd.  Of course in conspiracy world its always something already available for buttons. Like the ivermectin nonsense with covid.
The conspiracy theorist in work tried to tell one of the guys that there's a cure for autism.  He has a 19 year old son who's pretty far on the spectrum.  He just walked away and said " I'm not going to fall out with you".

She was radicalised on the Internet during covid. Doesn't even believe the weather forecast is real now.

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Re: ‘Crisis actors’ in the UK
« Reply #39 on: November 1, 2022, 06:49:56 pm »
This I can actually see why people would believe it. You can't look at our Government for example and what has gone on over the past 12 year and not wonder if it is actually wholly owned/ran/influenced by big business/the extremely rich, so its not a mad jump to think that the Governments are actually owned.

It's also quite understandable that people would believe that cures for illnesses are buried as there is such a huge amount of money to be made from selling the pills.

No, I don't think you grasp the scale of it. Not 'influenced by money', but "secret treaties that place the US as a property owned outright by the British royal family, the Pope and Jewish bankers", with the population themselves assets.

And not 'sitting on cures', but wonderous technology (that uses words like quantum and tesla) that can magically heal anything you or your loved ones might be suffering from (including THE VAX!)

I searched for something about the first part and found someone asking about it on Quora. This is one of the responses:

Spoiler
Quote
With the passing of the Act of 1807, we became The United States of America, Inc., no longer a free and sovereign nation (Republic of America). The Act of 1807 established the District of Columbia (Washington D.C). They are a foreign entity with ties to England and the Vatican, with elected officials (Presidents) that are ACTUALLY foreign CEO’s of the United States of America, Inc. The passing of this act forever changed our rights under the constitution, as a new constitution was born by changing a few key words.

Wars would come to pass. Even though we “won” the American Revolution, we were facing being owned again by England because of debt that we couldn’t pay back to France from the war. This default was expected by the elites. We borrowed money from France, and others. They knew we couldn’t pay them back so that left us in the reigns of London and the Monarchy to pay our debts. Our elected officials and elites have worked WITH them ever since. (Currently: The Club of Rome that INVENTED Climate Change, the UNDP that pushes equality, sustainability, and USES minorities for Democratic agendas and profits, The World Bank, etc. - ALL DOCUMENTED)... they came up with a corrupt system, as we were headed towards bankruptcy. The wars were backed by elite and wealthy bankers and businessmen, whom had profit and money to be made. Even the elites funded the Nazi War efforts. Rockefeller. Harriman. Bush. Henry Ford supplied Hitler with vehicles and American oil elite supplied them with fuel.

In the 1920’s we were issued birth certificates. Social security cards came along as our nation fell closer towards bankruptcy. This and the census enabled the government to borrow money from the projected amount of citizens x lifetime earnings expected.

Later, we were ordered us to turn in ALL of our gold (our true wealth) and in return, we were given valueless paper money from The Federal Reserve (elite bankers). The Vatican and London hold ALMOST all the gold reserve and hence, our freedom/wealth. This was us essentially being SOLD to LONDON and THE VATICAN, although it goes much deeper with documentation and all…

We pay interest from the loaned Federal Reserve money that we are given. We are in a debt we will never get out of. We are an enslaved nation of debtors, that once had their true wealth taken from them.

***On a further interesting note, on May 4th, 2020, President Trump filed Bankruptcy in Florida for The United States of America, Inc. In this document, it says it they owe the True Creditors , which are the American people, in direct relation to the borrowed gold and National Banking Emergency Act of 1933. He signed this document: Donald J. Trump, Chief Executive Officer of the United States. This bankruptcy would obviously abolish the IRS (our nation’s debt collectors). It would start the take down of The Federal Reserve and return us to the gold standard.

On July 4th, 2020, Trump initiated the 2nd Declaration of independence.

In January 2021, Trump published “The 1776 Report”. It was detailed in our history and the restoration of an American Republic.

Days before Trump left office he made an executive order titled, “The Insurrection Act of 1807”, which by standard, would set us back to the laws of the land (pre 1807 era) in which we were a true, free, sovereign nation. This would put Washington D.C. again as a foreign nation. This executive order was IN EFFECT when Biden was inaugurated. It does NOT MATTER that it is archived and no longer available on the White House website. Being as Trump abolished the INCORPORATION of America, we no longer are tied to a foreign leader (Biden) in a foreign land (Washington D.C.). This would make all his executive orders null and void. While the show can go on under forced authoritarian rule, we know that these “laws” were not for the people, by the people, or even legal- in that manner.

The Pentagon wouldn’t give Biden National Security information, initially. The military turned their backs to Biden during his Inauguration. They DENIED him a government issued plane for his own inauguration. Guess who left in Air Force One, after leaving the presidency seat? Trump. This has never in history been allowed.

In 2016, Trump CHANGED and amended the words “ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS TO RESTORE PUBLIC ORDER” BACK to the word “INSURRECTION” (which allows people to rise against authority or government” in Chapter 15 of the US House Codes, which have everything to do with Military operations. It was in 2006 when GEORGE BUSH changed the word “”INSURRECTION” to “ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS TO RESTORE PUBLIC ORDER”, initially giving the government full authority and power. Do you assume it was Trump alone in 2016 giving power back to the people by changing military law? No. He was not a politician. Why would some of the first things he do in office favor giving sovereign rights to the people?

In 2018, Trump wrote an executive order 13848, which gave Military rule in the event of FOREIGN or DOMESTIC interference of an election.

WHY DOES ANY OF THIS MATTER??? Because a general has testified that he was approached by military as a coup to bring down the corruption in government and indict Obama and Bush on treasonous charges during his presidency. They knew the next president would be corruptly preselected and presented in coordination with the “new world order” that the past presidents have raved so much about. The General later got a call saying they were backing down from that operation. He asked why. They told him because they spoke to Donald Trump and he had agreed to run for President along with full military support. They needed an outsider. No lobbyists, no political ties. Donald trump had no ties to corrupt Washington D.C. and the swamp of politicians. He was self-financed and even donated his salary. Ever since he was elected, these amendments and executive orders have slowly been laid out to give us our freedom back.

I’m sure you’ve heard of “Q” or “Anon”. “Q Clearance” is the HIGHEST Intelligence rank within the military. The posts started when Trump was elected. It’s been a military coup to take the corrupt down, with years worth of evidence.

Do you know what else is interesting? The Nesara Act. It was passed in 2000 by congress, but remained hidden and unannounced to the public. The Nesara Act cancels all debt and restores the wealth back to the American people. Mortgages, and all debts would be void. It has set on many presidents’ desks and no one has had the WANT to initiate it with announcement. Its a passed law that has been concealed. The Nesara Act was to be announced on 09/11/2001. But, George W. Bush orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. This is NOT A CONSPIRACY THEORY, it os a well know fact that has been proven. Supported research and documents are widely available to validate the incident was not a terrorist attack as presented to the people. Of course this led us to more war and the acquirement of more oil.

If we are in ”the storm” and the “best is yet to come”, I surely hope all these executive orders and due processes prevail. It will be BIBLICAL.

Two very informative documentaries I suggest:

    USA, INC. Vol. 1871–2021: The Corrupt Masonic Construct of The United States Corporation (This is ALL ABOUT how we allegedly have been SAVED from London, Britain, The Vatican rule ,etc.)

https://rumble.com/vd6em5-usa-inc.-vol.-1871–2021-the-corrupt-masonic-construct-of-the-united-states-.html

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS VIDEO LAYS IT THE LONDON/MONARCHY, & VATICAN INVOLVEMENT WONDERFULLY!

2. From JFK to 911 Everything Is A Rich Man’s Trick

https://youtu.be/jiHm2S0w3_Q
(https://youtu.be/jiHm2S0w3_Q

)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS VIDEO LAYS OUT THE ELITES’ HISTORICAL PARTS IN THE WARS, THE UNTIED STATES, OUR RESOURCES, AND GLOBAL CORRUPT AFFAIRS.


[close]

Spoilered for length, and I don't suggest watching the videos.

It's a total detachment from reality, but how do you pull people back from this? Historically, this level of mass delusion was only seen in smaller communities (such as cults), which usually ended in tragedies such as mass suicides.
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