Topic: Arsenal

[lorenzo]

David Ornstein
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Exclusive: Aaron Ramsey to hold talks with Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, Juventus, PSG & Real Madrid before leaving Arsenal as a free agent in the summer. #AFC have little money to spend in Jan so loans more likely with a bigger budget next window. Full details coming up @BBCSport

[Hazell]

Surprised reading a list of those clubs, I know Bayern Munich have been linked with him but are all those clubs genuinely interested in him? I find it surprising though I do think he's a good player and would be a useful addition to our squad.

[Dim Glas]

Surprised reading a list of those clubs, I know Bayern Munich have been linked with him but are all those clubs genuinely interested in him? I find it surprising though I do think he's a good player and would be a useful addition to our squad.

I know they'd be paying a big signing on fee for him, but it'd still be considerably less than the fee they'd have to pay for him if he was on a long contract. Likely a lot of those teams see him as a really talented squad option for them, rather than a guaranteed starter.  So not so surprising the level of club interested. 

[Xabi Gerrard]

A couple of weeks ago Torreira was being built up as some sort of new Mascherano. Football365 made an interesting comment on him the other day. Those that watch him regularly - is this fair? 



Paul Merson had it right. We all owe him an apology.

“Liverpool wouldn’t buy him tomorrow morning, I wouldn’t have thought any of the top four would,” he said of Torreira last week, to the protestations of Arsenal’s fervent fanbase.

“He could be playing at Southampton and wouldn’t get a mention, or Burnley. No one would mention it. It’s just that Arsenal needed it so badly.”

It was never intended as an insult – Merson said that the midfielder had done excellently thus far and was precisely what Arsenal needed. It was merely an observation that, as the right man in the right place at the right time, Torreira was put on an unnecessary pedestal. He has brought energy and fight to a midfield sorely lacking in both, but is not impervious.

As early as the sixth minute, Mane flummoxed the Uruguayuan with a simple turn. Then came the mistake for the second goal, tackled by the same player while dallying in possession. Arsenal’s defence was laughably bad, but they were hardly protected either.

It was a forgettable game during a poor run of form that he should recover from, and perhaps a timely reminder that he, much like this Arsenal side, are promising but far from the finished article.

He is still better than Eric Dier, mind.

[El Lobo]

I’ve only seen him play a handful of times but yes....he’s definitely better than Eric Dier

[trimore]

thing is though, no one really thought that at the time. Ask any other team who where challenging for CL spots who they'd take from Liverpool to improve them, and if they said anyone bar Coutinho, they'd be lying. Players like Lallana, Lovren, Firmino, Can who ended up being good and important players for this team under Klopp, had either flattered to decieve, had too many injuries, or not done anything early in their time at LFC to offer suggestion of being a good transfer (Firmino). 

Like SG says, it would take near perfect windows to replicate it at Arsenal, what Klopp, Edwards and their scouts have done in the last few windows is phenomenal, but still, if Arsenal can get a couple transfers very right in each of the next few windows, they'll set themselves up well under Emry - another coach who wants to work with a sporting director I beleive.   There are players there who should be performing at a higher level than they are, so yes, it is up to him as the coach to get more out of some of them, and there are good players there. They also yet again seem to have an inordinate amount of injury issues. So that doesn't help.

I certainly thought a better coach could get more out of that team than Rodgers at the time. All of those top 4 rivals were also our historical rivals and were/are no doubt biased against our players and wouldn't take our players with even the slightest hint of doubt. But Coutinho was playing for the Brazil national team at the time. Sturridge was still capable of brilliace. But more importantly, the work rates of Firmino, Lallana, Henderson and Milner were very well known. They just needed the right manager to put it all together. It has been known for some time that FSG were pursuing Klopp, were a great admirer of how he turned hardworking but limited players into champions and were heavily rumoured to have wanted Klopp to replace Dalglish ahead of Rodgers, but were turned down.

How many of the Arsenal's players fit into the Unai Emery Seville mold when he arrived? How many of them are young enough for Emery to develop further into stars? I agree that Emery should be given time, a lot of it and plenty of money. Ultimately the issues, like with every big club, lies with the fans. Will their fans be patient enough? Or demand the success that Klopp has had in a similar timeframe? Which I believe is highly unrealistic.

[4pool]

Torreira attempted five tackles before the break, but Fabinho, Firmino, Wijnaldum and Mane (twice) got past him with the ball every time.

From the Echo:

In his first 19 Premier League appearances, Torreira was dribbled past just nine times in total, and never more than once in a match. An impressive record, but one which Liverpool tore to shreds in an electrifying first half on Saturday.

[Son of Spion]

Funny thing is that despite the 5-1 scoreline, I thought Arsenal are one of the better teams to come to Anfield this season, quite impressed by some of their passages of play, reckon Emery is a decent manager who'll do well there if he's given time and backed in transfer market.

Same. I thought Arsenal were pretty good.
I think it just goes to show how good we are now that we beat them 5-1.

It was also refreshing that their fans didn't resort to the smalltime songbook and only sung about their own team from what I could hear.

[mikeb58]

Fair play to a group of their fans who visited the Memorial (after we scored the 5th) they where really respectful and where telling me how beautiful it looked and said precisely what we all know...it could have easily been them that fateful day.

I sit on the bench by the Memorial for most of the 2nd half for the majority of our games, that's how I came  to see them.

[Hazell]

I know they'd be paying a big signing on fee for him, but it'd still be considerably less than the fee they'd have to pay for him if he was on a long contract. Likely a lot of those teams see him as a really talented squad option for them, rather than a guaranteed starter.  So not so surprising the level of club interested. 

I rate him, just didn't think those teams would be in for him. Makes sense from a squad point of view I suppose.

[macmanamanaman]

Funny thing is that despite the 5-1 scoreline, I thought Arsenal are one of the better teams to come to Anfield this season, quite impressed by some of their passages of play, reckon Emery is a decent manager who'll do well there if he's given time and backed in transfer market.

Yep. I concur.

If they sort out their defence even marginally, they will reach top 4 level.
Their attack is excellent and their midfield is good (on a good day!)

They remind me a bit of early 2000s Liverpool in a sense: If they can play to the strengths of Aubameyang, Ozil, they will overpower most mid to lower table teams.

[BrandoLFC]

Arsenal's main issue is more related to the competition around them than anything else.  Come the end of this season they're going to be the 4th or 5th richest team in the league and it's trending downwards due to the continued lack of CL income.  If they had only 1 or 2 other teams to compete with financially then having a dip like this wouldn't be a big deal.  Instead there's 4 other teams that make more or the same with Spurs not that much further back.  Even just playing to par for their financial level doesn't guarantee them anything other than a Europa spot.

So to then overcome that you need to be smarter than the others in how you recruit and sign players.  As we're seeing with Ozil, unless you're ManU or ManC where you can just right off some ridiculous salary it can have a hugely negative effect to spend big and then have the player not work.  We've already done that though and I'm pretty sure there's only so many PhD level number crunchers to go around that have an interest in working for a football club.   I think then that between CFC, THFC and the Arse one of them is going to wisen up and cement themselves in the top 4 with the other two Manchester clubs and us.  It's going to take a lot of time and money for whichever two are left behind in order to get back into the mix of things or the continued mismanagement of ManU.

[Wengerscoat]

I think our model should be what Klopp has done at Liverpool, it has taken him 4 years and now Liverpool are one of the best teams in the world. We need a lot of time, our defense is a shambles, our keeper is passable but with a defense that bad he can hardly be blamed for making rash decisions. This year should be making sure we do okay in the league and see how far we get in the Europa Cup. Next summer is a big one, we have to get rid of Ozil, his wages are bleeding us dry, get a couple of defenders in and maybe a couple of midfielders. Which would cost money so I am not sure how much money he will be given since the resale value of the players who want to leave us right now is nil.

I wasn't surprised at the Liverpool result, infact before the game I had joked with my brother about a possible 5-1 beating due to our atrocious defense and Liverpool's attack. The more disappointing result was the Brighton one, where we should have won.

[BrandoLFC]

I think our model should be what Klopp has done at Liverpool, it has taken him 4 years and now Liverpool are one of the best teams in the world. We need a lot of time, our defense is a shambles, our keeper is passable but with a defense that bad he can hardly be blamed for making rash decisions. This year should be making sure we do okay in the league and see how far we get in the Europa Cup. Next summer is a big one, we have to get rid of Ozil, his wages are bleeding us dry, get a couple of defenders in and maybe a couple of midfielders. Which would cost money so I am not sure how much money he will be given since the resale value of the players who want to leave us right now is nil.

I wasn't surprised at the Liverpool result, infact before the game I had joked with my brother about a possible 5-1 beating due to our atrocious defense and Liverpool's attack. The more disappointing result was the Brighton one, where we should have won.

That's your issue though, we've already done it.  Hiring Klopp, promoting Edwards, building the best analytics team in the league, increasing our revenues, building better facilities, etc etc.   Arsenal doing it now doesn't give you any advantage.  You'd be dependent more on others mismanagement than what you can do.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

That's your issue though, we've already done it.  Hiring Klopp, promoting Edwards, building the best analytics team in the league, increasing our revenues, building better facilities, etc etc.   Arsenal doing it now doesn't give you any advantage.  You'd be dependent more on others mismanagement than what you can do.

theyd be significantly better and would be at least a top 3 challenger had they bought better the last few years, I mean two competent centre halves who aren’t fuckheads would probably have them there now

[No666]

I think our model should be what Klopp has done at Liverpool, it has taken him 4 years and now Liverpool are one of the best teams in the world.

Three years. Which is exceptional, and I use the word advisedly. But I suspect Michael Edwards, the stats team, the new chief scout, played a massive part in our recovery and they were there before Klopp so it may be truer to say it took us eight years to turn it around, with a rebuild from the management of the club through to the management of the team. Are you ready for the sheer frustration of that?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Three years. Which is exceptional, and I use the word advisedly. But I suspect Michael Edwards, the stats team, the new chief scout, played a massive part in our recovery and they were there before Klopp so it may be truer to say it took us eight years to turn it around, with a rebuild from the management of the club through to the management of the team. Are you ready for the sheer frustration of that?

theyve already done the rebuild of the management team last year to be fair to them

[Dim Glas]

Three years. Which is exceptional, and I use the word advisedly. But I suspect Michael Edwards, the stats team, the new chief scout, played a massive part in our recovery and they were there before Klopp so it may be truer to say it took us eight years to turn it around, with a rebuild from the management of the club through to the management of the team. Are you ready for the sheer frustration of that?

They may have been in, but enough progress wasn't being made or working well prior to Klopp. The transfer dealings where all over the place for years with a lot of money spent on new players in the process and not helped with having a manager who wouldn't work under a sporting director. So that set things back.

It may or may not work for Arsenal, but a lot can be done with the right infrastructure in 2 or 3 years. And I believe emery is very much used to working under that sort of structure, so that should aid them too. Now I guess we'll see how good Sven Mislintat and his team really is!

[Brian Blessed]

Echoing that. It doesn’t matter that’s we’ve done it already, in fact it should be emulated, and probably will be by a few teams. It’s just whether they’re able to capture lightning in a bottle as we have.

[newterp]

They may have been in, but enough progress wasn't being made or working well prior to Klopp. The transfer dealings where all over the place for years with a lot of money spent on new players in the process and not helped with having a manager who wouldn't work under a sporting director. So that set things back.

It may or may not work for Arsenal, but a lot can be done with the right infrastructure in 2 or 3 years. And I believe emery is very much used to working under that sort of structure, so that should aid them too. Now I guess we'll see how good Sven Mislintat and his team really is!

Klopp came into a mess too in October 2015. No summer pre-season, no signings, no belief. Still made the EL Final.

2015-2016 - EL Final
2016-2017 - CL Spot (4th)
2017-2018 - CL Spot (4th) - CL Final
2018-2019 -

Not bad progress....

[No666]

They may have been in, but enough progress wasn't being made or working well prior to Klopp. The transfer dealings where all over the place for years with a lot of money spent on new players in the process and not helped with having a manager who wouldn't work under a sporting director. So that set things back.

It may or may not work for Arsenal, but a lot can be done with the right infrastructure in 2 or 3 years. And I believe emery is very much used to working under that sort of structure, so that should aid them too. Now I guess we'll see how good Sven Mislintat and his team really is!

I agree with all of this. The point I was trying to make was that it's naive to think three years should do it - Klopp as the standard measure. We've been a long time getting it right. They'll be lucky to get the whole structure working at optimum level and working seamlessly together from the off. The recruitment of Aubameyang (was that the new guys?) tells me they have a different way of evaluating to us.

[newterp]

Ramsey to Juve?

[Wengerscoat]

That's your issue though, we've already done it.  Hiring Klopp, promoting Edwards, building the best analytics team in the league, increasing our revenues, building better facilities, etc etc.   Arsenal doing it now doesn't give you any advantage.  You'd be dependent more on others mismanagement than what you can do.

I am not sure I agree. Eg last season was a colossal mess-up, where we lost or did not win 15 out of 19 away games, our home form was superb. Just sorting out our away form can make a big difference. Even with a mess that the club is right now we are 6 odd points off City until the Liverpool game, which was an achievement in itself considering the umpteen millions they have pumped out. We already have a fantastic ground and excellent training facilities but we do need to upgrade everywhere. Our scouting system has also been changed, under Wenger he refused to sign Kante because of our scouts, I hope those kind of blunders do not happen. The fact we are within Top 4 reach even now despite all the shambles is amazing enough. I am not expecting miracles, it will take us some time of get it all right. But after the torrid last half a decade I can wait more.

[Wengerscoat]

Ramsey to Juve?

Part of me is sad but Ramsey and the rest were never top material, they were always fourth or fifth best. Which was reflected in our positions.

[Wengerscoat]

I agree with all of this. The point I was trying to make was that it's naive to think three years should do it - Klopp as the standard measure. We've been a long time getting it right. They'll be lucky to get the whole structure working at optimum level and working seamlessly together from the off. The recruitment of Aubameyang (was that the new guys?) tells me they have a different way of evaluating to us.

I think we have been working it well too until the last couple of years as its only the last 2 years where we have had no CL. By working it well I mean getting CL football (which was the minimum requirement amidst all the garbage we'd put out!) Before that we were in it every single year with the odd title challenge. What I meant was I hope we give Emery time. A part of me is massively disappointed we missed out on Klopp. When you lot got him I had no doubt he would get you back to the top.

[clinical]

A couple of weeks ago Torreira was being built up as some sort of new Mascherano. Football365 made an interesting comment on him the other day. Those that watch him regularly - is this fair? 



Paul Merson had it right. We all owe him an apology.

“Liverpool wouldn’t buy him tomorrow morning, I wouldn’t have thought any of the top four would,” he said of Torreira last week, to the protestations of Arsenal’s fervent fanbase.

“He could be playing at Southampton and wouldn’t get a mention, or Burnley. No one would mention it. It’s just that Arsenal needed it so badly.”

It was never intended as an insult – Merson said that the midfielder had done excellently thus far and was precisely what Arsenal needed. It was merely an observation that, as the right man in the right place at the right time, Torreira was put on an unnecessary pedestal. He has brought energy and fight to a midfield sorely lacking in both, but is not impervious.

As early as the sixth minute, Mane flummoxed the Uruguayuan with a simple turn. Then came the mistake for the second goal, tackled by the same player while dallying in possession. Arsenal’s defence was laughably bad, but they were hardly protected either.

It was a forgettable game during a poor run of form that he should recover from, and perhaps a timely reminder that he, much like this Arsenal side, are promising but far from the finished article.

He is still better than Eric Dier, mind.

He's much better than he showed against us. He's a good player. Merson is never right.

[Djimi Smicer34]

He's much better than he showed against us. He's a good player. Merson is never right.

I agree, in games like Saturday's he's basically expected to do the job of two or three players as the likes of Xhaka never turn up against the bigger sides.

He's a very good player, maybe playing in the World Cup and then having to adapt to the PL and the rate of games over Christmas has caught up with him a bit and he's flagging at the moment.  But he is one of the few players that Arsenal could build another very good team around.

[cdav]

I think like a lot of teams they have a bloated squad that is actually a hinderance. The cost of wages for such a squad were some players contribute little hampers the ability to get better players and reward your best ones.

One of the things hardly anyone praises Edwards and his team for is how well they have sold players. We have stripped back loads of the deadwood and cleared their wages off the books, allowing more to be spent on buying new players and rewarding successful players.

It was a sign if weakness to not sell Sanchez and Ozil when they entered the last 12 months of their contracts, meaning Sanchez was sold in January for less and to save face Ozil was given a huge contract that is now a burden on the club. They really need to get rid of loads- Ramsey, Ozil, Welbeck, et al. Hell, even getting Lacazette for £50m and then signing Aubameyang 6 months later to play in the same position is madness when you have so many other issues.

I feel they need to clear the decks properly and get a much leaner squad from which they can build on and add to in the managers preferred style.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Imo they should clear out most of their current defenders [Monreal,Koscielny,Mustafi,Bellerin] They can't get the Wenger defending out of them. Kolasinac is an ok player but if they are serious about being contenders of any sort, he wouldn't be their starting fullback a good squad player.

In midfield only Torreira and that young lad Gonduzi [sp?] should be around, everyone else I'd ship out.

Id get rid of Ozil.

Emery will need time and money to improve this side

[Zlen]

Iwobi really grew into a solid player for them.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Iwobi really grew into a solid player for them.

Just needs to be more consistent.

[El Lobo]

Iwobi really grew into a solid player for them.

He’s become a good one in twelve forward for them

[Zlen]

He’s become a good one in twelve forward for them

Yeah, probably.
Just seems to be more confident on the ball and makes more happen then previously.
He is inconsistent though.

[12C]

Fair play to a group of their fans who visited the Memorial (after we scored the 5th) they where really respectful and where telling me how beautiful it looked and said precisely what we all know...it could have easily been them that fateful day.

I sit on the bench by the Memorial for most of the 2nd half for the majority of our games, that's how I came  to see them.

They were class back in 89, the whole club!

[RyanBabel19]

Iwobi really grew into a solid player for them.

I still think he's awful, very rarely see him have an impressive game to be honest. Seems to snatch at chance after chance

Whens the last time he had 2 good games in a row prior to the last 2?

[ScottishGoon]

I think like a lot of teams they have a bloated squad that is actually a hinderance. The cost of wages for such a squad were some players contribute little hampers the ability to get better players and reward your best ones.

One of the things hardly anyone praises Edwards and his team for is how well they have sold players. We have stripped back loads of the deadwood and cleared their wages off the books, allowing more to be spent on buying new players and rewarding successful players.

It was a sign if weakness to not sell Sanchez and Ozil when they entered the last 12 months of their contracts, meaning Sanchez was sold in January for less and to save face Ozil was given a huge contract that is now a burden on the club. They really need to get rid of loads- Ramsey, Ozil, Welbeck, et al. Hell, even getting Lacazette for £50m and then signing Aubameyang 6 months later to play in the same position is madness when you have so many other issues.

I feel they need to clear the decks properly and get a much leaner squad from which they can build on and add to in the managers preferred style.

The Sanchez & Ozil situations smacked of pure panic & trying to save face, trying to dictate the situation when the reality is they just made themselves look weaker & even more out of control. When you think that along with Ramsey that's potentially £150m worth of players there that was very poor management. You do wonder if the likes of Gazidas knew they were on the way out & was more concerned with saving face rather than the long term good of the club.

I think you are right about stripping back the squad as well. I think a lot of Arsenal fans would be happier to have a trimmed down squad supplemented by the young guys coming through. There's a few talented lads there already, Mavropanos, Holding, Maitland-Niles, Guendouzi, Reiss Nelson, Smith-Rowe etc. They should be taking the squad positions of the likes of Elneny, Mkhitaryan & Welbeck.

[SerbianScouser]

Hector Bellendin.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Hector Bellendin.

if only he had aubameyangs awesome fashion sense

[XabiGerrard]

Ramsey looks to be joining Juve. He’s going to struggle to get a game over there

[Schmidt]

Hector Bellendin.

Are you sure it's him? Maybe Jamiroquai is an Arsenal fan.