Topic: Supporting Jurgen Klopp and the team through this injury ravaged season

[Ratboy3G]

The team has so much goodwill from the last few years that I don't mind if we fail to challenge for the league. That said, I am still hoping we finish in the top 3 and make a run for the CL.

Absolutely right, we'll regroup in the summer and put it a title challenge next season.
We have old big ears to win this season 🏆

[redk84]

I put the following post up in Fitzy's 'criticism' thread but felt it was just as pertinent to this thread. The redK84 post it responds to is in Fitzys thread.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow J lad. A repeat of last season maybe? 


I was in the process of responding to your initial post on page 1 where you first raised the issue you're now opening up about, when we had a messy leak in the kitchen and duty called so I never managed to complete it.  I will try to finish it when I get the chance because I felt your concerns deserved comprehensive consideration. As it happens, I was finding it bloody difficult in any case to formulate a response as that particular post seemed so nuanced to me I was never quite sure of exactly what you were driving at.

Your subsequent posts have, however, now made that clear; namely, in essence, a platform for differing opinions and a disapproval of such a platform being denied. And who could or would ever dispute such an entitlement on forum such as this one?

That said, there are times as supporters of a football club - and this one more than most I'd affirm - when opinions of the negative and fault finding sort suddenly emerging all over the show as things go quite grievously awry, fly so perversely in the face of what is the true unpalatable reality of the situation that robust rejection of such negativity becomes almost an essential riposte to the negativity. It might never shut down such negativity but hopefully it makes its point as forcibly as possible, namely that we are supporters of our club first and foremost as distinct from discerning stats-laden transfer aficionado critics of it and its players and manager.

You might or might not have noticed that along with Keyop and John C it was myself who put up the thread about supporting the team through this injury ravaged season. I put that post up for a reason. Ostensibly, of course, because this is irrevocably the most injury plagued season Liverpool Football Club have ever suffered. Two or three times worse than any I've witnessed in well over 60 years following the club.

Of more concern, however, - and the main reason for posting the thread -  was a genuine fear of where the burgeoning negativity might lead as the team and manager continue forward with one foot let alone one hand tied behind their backs as one crippling injury follows another. It is a concern borne of years of watching in these post internet times how the sort of negative and fault-finding opinions we've been seeing since we've begun this recent awful run of results can very rapidly escalate and take on a self-fulfilling prophetic life form of its own. We saw it with Houllier. We saw it with Rafa. We even saw it with Kenny. We saw it with Brendan Rodgers. The sort of undermining and negativity we've been seeing recently - Bobby Firmino being a principal target but many others too including Jurgen himself - can very quickly assume an unstoppable downward fan/media driven viitriolic spiral which undermines things ever further.

I most certainly do not want to see even the faintest whiff of the same sort of thing emerging now with Jurgen at a time when he is being fucked left, right and centre by things totally beyond his control.

Let's be frank. The team is on the ropes right now. Sure, we might bounce back up tomorrow lunchtime. But we are not the same team just now and we could just as easily be picked off once again. Unprecedented injuries - amongst a litany of other things as identified by Keyop in that opening post of the injury ravaged season thread - have fucked us up good and proper. And continue to do so. Now more than ever the club needs everybody pulling together no matter how the ensuing results might go. Just as we would be doing if we were in the ground. Right now, we have no need whatsoever of stat-obsessed Liverpool fans citing why the likes of Bobby Firmino is currently failing to pull up assist and goal-scoring trees. What we do need is a collective realization that the likes of Bobby and Jurgen and his an injury ravaged team needs their supporters now more than ever before.

Hopefully, all the foregoing may explain why occasionally I have felt down the years that difference of opinion can indeed be the fucking devil.

 

Have literally just read this...after my other post just now in another thread.
Quite a response!

Thanks for the effort...I do get what you mean. And yes there is a lot of nuance to this sort of thing

Time and a place for the talks on our squad/areas of improvement etc may not be now as you fear that will lead to the sort of atmosphere in the fanbase that will effect the actual manager/players...due to an existing negative feeling around the results.  Have I understood that right?

I do remember the terrible way it ended for Rafa but I must be ignorant to anything of the sort against klopp at the moment. Maybe I just ignore it I dunno but have not come across much anger towards him or the players? It's pretty obvious the injuries are the biggest reason we are where we are at the moment as you say.

Maybe the off-season is the time to discuss areas for improvement...not much of an issue for me as this is what I usually do anyway.

But goodluck with what you're doing
I'm in

[reddebs]

The team has so much goodwill from the last few years that I don't mind if we fail to challenge for the league. That said, I am still hoping we finish in the top 3 and make a run for the CL.

I've kinda felt like this all season if I'm honest.

After seeing us finally win the title last season, something I'd begun to think I'd never see again, I knew I could die happy whatever happens from now on.

Things just aren't going our way but wow, these lads have given us everything over the last few years and we've always known that to compete regularly with the money teams we need a perfect storm.

Our well oiled machine has had some major parts breakdown that aren't easily replaced and it's put a strain on all the others parts. 

I'm ok with that and still feel we'll finish higher than some are anticipating.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[nerdster4]

So the question is how do we look forward to next season.  What tweaking does the team need

I think alisson kelleher ok
VVD Gomez Matip Davies with fab and hendo backup needs looking at . If kabak excels he might  be an option.  We just don't know  how our CBs will come back from injury

I think we need more competition in full back positions . Milner will be 36 and there is a big gap with neco and tsimikas. Perhaps a full back who can play either side would be good

Fab and hendo going back into midfield alongside thiago would help. Keita and ox so injury prone that wijnaldum will need replacing. Jones will hopefully carry on developing. 

So if need a CB, a full back and a midfielder how will we finance it?

 I dont think rhys Philips adrian ox keita firmino minamino shaqiri origi sales are realistic in totality or likely to generate mega bucks. 

My big worry is Salah.

There might be a temptation to cash in on Salah particularly if he pushes for it. Mane Jota and Elliott will need strengthening as an attacking unit if salah goes .

Possibly the biggest window for us for ages and might influence our direction.

We also need to hang on to top 4 for dear life starting with beating Everton

[Timbo's Goals]

Have literally just read this...after my other post just now in another thread.
Quite a response!

Thanks for the effort...I do get what you mean. And yes there is a lot of nuance to this sort of thing

Time and a place for the talks on our squad/areas of improvement etc may not be now as you fear that will lead to the sort of atmosphere in the fanbase that will effect the actual manager/players...due to an existing negative feeling around the results.  Have I understood that right?

I do remember the terrible way it ended for Rafa but I must be ignorant to anything of the sort against klopp at the moment. Maybe I just ignore it I dunno but have not come across much anger towards him or the players? It's pretty obvious the injuries are the biggest reason we are where we are at the moment as you say.

Maybe the off-season is the time to discuss areas for improvement...not much of an issue for me as this is what I usually do anyway.

But goodluck with what you're doing

I'm in

Nice one mate

You're more than welcome

 

[Wilmo]

The team has so much goodwill from the last few years that I don't mind if we fail to challenge for the league. That said, I am still hoping we finish in the top 3 and make a run for the CL.

One of the key things is how well we did in the season before last in the league. The best team to never be champions. When you're running that kind of form and intensity for so long (and don't forget we were phenomenal in the second half of the season prior as well) there always comes an ebb.

Only one club has won 3 titles in a row. Beyond that, who has stayed as consistently, world-beatingly, dominant as we've been? Obviously we didn't win the title in 2018-19, but we put in the effort that would have since us lift the cup in literally any other year. We'll be fine. Trust me.

[Hazell]

I can respectfully only refer you specifically to the text of the opening post in this thread as well as many other posts within the thread which strive to explain why the thread has been started at this particular time when we are all suffering with what's going on with the team. Yet many of us know instinctively that during such times the need to stick together and refrain from bemoaning the form of individual players and the team as a whole is at its most heightened albeit perhaps not the easiest thing with which to comply. In the absence of us being in the ground to show our support, joining in with the underlying spirit of a thread such as this and refraining from criticism on these sort of forums is one way in which we can mitigate the absence of real supporters in the ground.

 

Nice one Timbo. I was trying to articulate why our support is so important right now but that pretty much sums it up.

[KloppoKopo]

I've kinda felt like this all season if I'm honest.

After seeing us finally win the title last season, something I'd begun to think I'd never see again, I knew I could die happy whatever happens from now on.

Things just aren't going our way but wow, these lads have given us everything over the last few years and we've always known that to compete regularly with the money teams we need a perfect storm.

Our well oiled machine has had some major parts breakdown that aren't easily replaced and it's put a strain on all the others parts. 

I'm ok with that and still feel we'll finish higher than some are anticipating.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

Exactly how I feel. I’m now in my mid to late 50s, after seeing the collapse under Rodgers then missing out by 1 point it just felt like we would never get over the line again, at least not in my lifetime.

I’m sure there will be much more success under Jurgen if he stays, but even if we don’t win anything again over the next 2 - 3 seasons he has done enough to get my unconditional support. It’s not just what he has won, it’s the quality of the football, it’s stating the obvious but this period will be the stuff of legend in years to come.

[Dim Glas]

Exactly how I feel. I’m now in my mid to late 50s, after seeing the collapse under Rodgers then missing out by 1 point it just felt like we would never get over the line again, at least not in my lifetime.

I’m sure there will be much more success under Jurgen if he stays, but even if we don’t win anything again over the next 2 - 3 seasons he has done enough to get my unconditional support. It’s not just what he has won, it’s the quality of the football, it’s stating the obvious but this period will be the stuff of legend in years to come.

Indeed, and what we should never lose sight of is that he is such a sympathetic person, it’s the whole package with him, not just the football, but the human element.  That to me is equally important - actually often I think more important.

There’s a reason he’s so beloved to this day by Mainz and Dortmund fans. He is a one of a kind he really is.

[Macphisto80]

Right now we have a clean slate of ambition. We're at square one, but with all the tools sitting to the side ready to achieve the base ambition of getting a machine which has broken down back to working order. A couple of parts in the right place again, some tweaking...we'll be ticking over again and running smoothly fairly quickly. Right now its just all about stability and keeping us on the straight and narrow. Our ambition for this season should just be about getting back to, or looking like getting back to, our normal form. Restoring confidence in players, and getting us hungry for silverware. There is nothing worse than ending a season on a low or looking like we'll need a total rebuilding job. I'm confident that that won't be the case, though. We're just too fucking good of a team, have too many good players, and we've the best manager on the planet. That is a fact. It's as simple as that. The jackals and hyenas of the gutter press can go fuck themselves. We'll be back.

[Billy Elliot]

I'm more concerned that Klopp's going to go. I think the Club should give him the rest of the season off so he can see his family and grieve for his mum. Fuck footy, it's shit at the moment anyway.

We'll still be here next season, go home, have a break, then come back and pick it back up again. Hopefully there'll be people in the ground to give him the ovation he deserves.

Not that it'd ever happen but it'd be nice.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I also am in my 50s and although I can be an absolute bellend, I just can't understand how some of our fucking tithead inbred wanker fans can be having a go at Klopp and the team.

He's won us the 'Champions' League and the fucking league, we're going through a year of shite with Covid and we've done amazing stuff

[Billy Elliot]

Just wondering, for these over 50s (slightly younger - but not much). Did many start to get on Paisley's back in 81, with how we were doing in the league, before we went to Paris?

[Macphisto80]

I also am in my 50s and although I can be an absolute bellend, I just can't understand how some of our fucking tithead inbred wanker fans can be having a go at Klopp and the team.

He's won us the 'Champions' League and the fucking league, we're going through a year of shite with Covid and we've done amazing stuff

There will have been a lot of fairweather bandwagon jumpers that started following us in recent times. That's to be expected, but one thing I've said, and I make no apology for it, is that our first league title in 30 years that Klopp brought us was for the fans that were there throughout all of that time, or somewhere in between. It wasn't for this new age modern bandwagon Twitter generation.

[reddebs]

Just wondering, for these over 50s (slightly younger - but not much). Did many start to get on Paisley's back in 81, with how we were doing in the league, before we went to Paris?

I don't remember fans getting on any managers back until maybe Souness but there was no social media then and I didn't live in the city to hear it first hand.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

[kezzy]

Back in the champions league on Tuesday and we are gonna win it, I’ve seen it in me tea leaves.  After we beat Leipzig we’ll beat Dortmund in the quarters, Juventus in the semis and we’ll get revenge for last season in the final against Atletico.  By the way I haven’t had a footy coupon up in over 2 years so don’t bet on that cos I might have got the teams wrong but we’re still gonna win it.  😂

Oh and anyone who is having a go at Klopp needs to have a serious word with themselves after everything he has done for this club.  The man is a legend and always will be. 

[Millie]

Just wondering, for these over 50s (slightly younger - but not much). Did many start to get on Paisley's back in 81, with how we were doing in the league, before we went to Paris?

Definitely not.

[farawayred]

Just wondering, for these over 50s (slightly younger - but not much). Did many start to get on Paisley's back in 81, with how we were doing in the league, before we went to Paris?

Things were different then. There was no internet and computers to hind behind ans spill bile without showing your face. There was no Sky bandwagon full of deranged former players and other twats. People owned their beliefs and convictions, and support was more genuine regardless of who was your team.

[Phil M]

Premier League 20/21:

Liverpool Starting XI versus...

Leeds:

Ali Trent Gomez Virgil Robbo Gini Hendo Keita Sadio Bobby Mo   (Keita for Fab)

Result: 4-3 (3 pts)

Chelsea:

Ali Trent Fab Virgil Robbo Gini Hendo Keita Sadio Bobby Mo  (Fab for Gomez)

Result: 0-2 (3 pts)

Arsenal:

Ali Trent Gomez Virgil Robbo Gini Fabinho Keita Sadio Bobby Mo     (Fab for Hendo)

Result: 3-1 (3 pts)

Villa

Ali Trent Gomez Virgil Robbo Gini Fabinho Keita Sadio Bobby Mo  (Keita for Hendo)

Result: 7-2 (0 pts)

Everton

Adrian Trent Matip Virgil Robbo Hendo Thiago Fabinho Sadio Bobby Mo (Thiago for Gini / Adrian for Ali)

Result: 2-2 (1 pt)

Sheff Utd:

Ali Trent Gomez Fabinho Robbo Gini Hendo Jota Sadio Bobby Mo (Fab for Virg / Jota for Keita/Thiago)

Result: 2-1 (3 pts)

West Ham:

Ali Trent Gomez Phillips Robbo Gini Hendo Jones Sadio Bobby Mo  (Phillips for Matip / Jones for Thiago/Fab/Naby)

Result: 2-1 (3 pts)

Man City

Ali Trent Gomez Matip Robbo Gini Hendo Jota Sadio Bobby Mo 

Result: 0-0 (1pt)

Leicester

Ali Milner Matip Fab Robbo Jones Gini Keita Mane Bobby Jota  (Milner/Fab/Jones/Keita in from last game for Trent/Gomez/Hendo/Mo)

Result: 3-0 (3 pts)


Note:[/b] After Leicester on 22/11 we sat joint first with Spurs having taken 20/27 pts

Brighton:

Ali Neco Phillips Fab Robbo Milner Gini Mina Jota Bobby Mo  (You can see the clear changes from Leicester)

Result: 0-0 (1 pt)

Wolves

Kelleher Neco Matip Fab Robbo Gini Hendo Jones Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 4-0 (3 pts)

Fulham:

Ali Trent Matip Fab Robbo Gini Hendo Jones Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 1-1 (1 pt)

Spurs:

Ali Trent R Williams Fab Robbo Gini Hendo Jones Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 2-1 (3 pts)

Palace:

Ali Trent Matip Fab Robbo Gini Hendo Keita Sadio Bobby Minamino

Result: 0-7 (3 pts)


Note: After Palace we sat 1st with 31pts from a possible 42, 5 clear of Everton and 8 clear of City who had 1 game in hand.
It's from the next game our season starts to go a bit pear shaped...


West Brom:

Ali Trent Matip Fab Robbo Gini Hendo Jones Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 1-1 (1 pt)

Newcastle:

Ali Trent Phillips Fab Robbo Milner Hendo Jones Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 0-0 (1 pt)

Southampton:

Ali Trent Hendo Fab Robbo Gini Oxlade Thiago Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 1-0 (0 pts)

Man Utd:

Ali Trent Hendo Fab Robbo Gini Thiago Shaq Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 0-0 (1 pt)

Burnley:

Ali Trent Matip Fab Robbo Gini Thiago Shaq Sadio Origi Ox

Result: 0-1 (0 pts)


Note: After Burley, 5 games on from Palace,  including losing our home record of course. We'd fallen to 4th in the table. 6 pts off the leaders Man Utd. City had climbed to second on 38 pts, again with a game in hand over us.

Those last 5 games read depressingly as follows: P5 W0 D3 L2 F1 A3 Pts: 2/15


Spurs:

Ali Trent Hendo Matip Robbo Gini Thiago Milner Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 1-3 (3 pts)

W Ham

Ali Trent Phillips Hendo Robbo Gini Thiago Milner Shaq Origi Mo

Result: 3-1 (3 pts)



Note: The bounce back to form saw the Reds back up to 3rd place, 4 pts off City who had a game in hand. 40/63 points won.


Brighton:

Kelleher Trent Hendo Phillips Robbo Gini Thiago Milner Shaq Bobby Mo

Result: 0-1 (0 pts)

City:

Ali Trent Hendo Fab Robbo Gini Jones Thiago Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 1-4 (0 pts)

Leicester:

Ali Trent Kabak Hendo Robbo Gini Milner Jones Sadio Bobby Mo

Result: 3-1 (0 pts)

Note:

And there we have it folks, two thirds of the way through the season and we've suffered two crucial spells where the team has dropped points on a consistent basis.


Let's take a quick look at that back 5 issue a bit closer...



Players in starting line-up:

Alisson - 20/24 starts
Kelleher - 2/24 starts
Adrian - 2/24 starts

Robertson - 24/24 starts
Van Dijk - 5/24 starts
Gomez - 6/24 starts
Alexander Arnold - 22/24 starts
Matip - 9/24 starts
Neco Williams - 2/24 starts
Nat Phillips -5/24 starts
Rhys Williams -1/24 starts
Kabak (1)

Hendo - 19/24 starts (*7 of 19 games started at CB)
Fabinho - 17/24 starts (*14 of 17 games started at CB
Wijnaldum - 22/24 starts
Thiago - 8/24 starts
Milner - 7/24 starts (1 at RB)

Shaqiri - 4/24 starts
Keita - 6/24 starts
Oxlade Chamberlain - 2/24 starts

Salah - 21/24 starts
Firmino -22/24 starts
Mane - 20/24 starts
Jota - 5/24 starts
Origi - 2/24 starts

You can see for yourself the number of times the defence and midfield as a result changed due to injuries.

The spine of the title winning side was severely disrupted early doors, it's been a season of attrition.

The fact Kloppo guided us to a position where we were clear at the top is incredible when with hindsight when you consider the circumstances and account for the desperately shit luck we've had ever since we lost our No.4.

This post is just to help some Reds on here who might need a little bit of perspective on the season as a whole.

We're all depressed with the position we find ourselves in currently,  more than likely relinquishing our title to City but this group of players owe us nothing. There's still a third of the season to go, we just need to pick ourselves up and go out there and pick it up again.

Keep the faith, there's better times ahead.

Up the Reds and roll on Leipzig! 

[MinnyRed]

Agree.

We’ve had injuries for so long that people forget just how meaningful they are. Just because we won a few games after VVD was injured doesn’t mean there was no impact. It was a snowballing injury situation wasn’t felt. Points are a lagging indicator.

In our most recent stretch, we’ve had 8 or 9 freaking players injured or playing in the wrong positions. Every game. Thats fully half of a squad 18. Fuck me that’s a lot of injuries. Consistently. There’s really not a squad in the world that could cope.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

You can see for yourself the number of times the defence and midfield as a result changed due to injuries.

The spine of the title winning side was severely disrupted early doors, it's been a season of attrition.

The fact Kloppo guided us to a position where we were clear at the top is incredible when with hindsight when you consider the circumstances and account for the desperately shit luck we've had ever since we lost our No.4.

This post is just to help some Reds on here who might need a little bit of perspective on the season as a whole.

We're all depressed with the position we find ourselves in currently,  more than likely relinquishing our title to City but this group of players owe us nothing. There's still a third of the season to go, we just need to pick ourselves up and go out there and pick it up again.

Keep the faith, there's better times ahead.

Up the Reds and roll on Leipzig! 

Fantastic visual and underlying point!!!!

[Black Bull Nova]

Big week for the team, embark on our realistic trophy hunt which will make this season more than worthwhile and a match we've been waiting for since October 16th.  Support the team to get properly back on the rails.

[Nobby Reserve]

Agree.

We’ve had injuries for so long that people forget just how meaningful they are. Just because we won a few games after VVD was injured doesn’t mean there was no impact. It was a snowballing injury situation wasn’t felt. Points are a lagging indicator.

In our most recent stretch, we’ve had 8 or 9 freaking players injured or playing in the wrong positions. Every game. Thats fully half of a squad 18. Fuck me that’s a lot of injuries. Consistently. There’s really not a squad in the world that could cope.

I know this point has been made before, but I think it's a hugely important contributing factor:

We had 2 and a half seasons straining every sinew to be successful, dragging us from - let's be honest with ourselves - hopeful also-rans, to proper contenders. We reached 2 ECL finals, winning 1, posted the [at the time] third highest league points total, then backing up to have all but won the league by March and ultimately post the second highest points total ever. All this in a system known for being physically challenging. So many games we found ourselves level or even down going into the last quarter and the players seemed to up their determination and effort to pull a goal our two out the fire to get the 3 points.

By March last year, the signs were there that some were running on vapours. The season break seemed at the time to come at the ideal juncture, and we were able to jog down the final straight to the title.

But I do wonder how that break impacted the players mentally. They knew they could stroll home, and they pretty much did, dropping points some games where the players looked like they were struggling to raise energy levels to 100%. This wasn't physical exhaustion.

Most (all?) of us weren't concerned. We'd just ended a 30 year wait, and the players could afford to coast home. They'd be right back up for it come September.

But we looked less convincing in several games, even before the injuries began to mount up. And the games we struggled most with were the ones where the opposition went hell for leather with the press.

I still think the injuries to key players at key times, with the knock-on disruption to the team is the biggest factor in our spells of poor form. But I also think - and Klopp has said as much - that mental exhaustion has played a huge part. And achieving the objective that the players will have given themselves - major silverware - it's entirely understandable that they'd be subconsciously struggling to muster that same effervescence that drove them to 3 seasons of increasing achievement until they reached the peak.

We've seen a similar impact with teams/individuals who have achieved their initial goals, then suffered a dip for a few months/year or so.

For us the effect will be especially pronounced in a year of ridiculous and unprecedented social chaos in the wider country/world, and within the group themselves there is the succession of injuries and terrible VAR decisions that have persistently gone against us.

We've also seen how champions who suffer a slump after great success bounce back, possibly spurred on by the Stark reality of being reminded what being an also-ran feels like.

I'm happy - OK, 'happy' is the wrong word.. 'content' is better - to give these guys this season to regroup, refresh, re-find their hunger to be number 1.

My biggest fear, though, is fallout of the top 4.

We finish trophyless but 4th (ideally 3rd) and I won't be gutted.

[lukeb1981]

Don’t really care if we win nothing this season, really just want Jurgen  to get his head straight and we go again next season. It’s been a shit show of a season and what has happened to Jurgen in the past few weeks has just crushed thh he r bloke . He deserves better .

[Timbo's Goals]

Just wondering, for these over 50s (slightly younger - but not much). Did many start to get on Paisley's back in 81, with how we were doing in the league, before we went to Paris?

Different times. No internet. No phone-ins. Basically any whines would be in letters to the Echo [most from Len Griffiths - older reds will know what I mean - indeed he might well have fathered some of the whingeing gits in here  ]. But all told it simply wasn't the way back then. I've said this many times before but for the 6 barren years of Shanks [1966 - 72], at the end of every season all of which ended in disappointment come what may we would all head around en masse to the car park players entrance from the Kop to shout and hail for Shanks and the players to show our loyal support. 

That was our education and the way we did it. The unfurling of that banner put up for Jurgen today at the Kop stems from that sort of amazing steadfast loyalty. hence this thread and the many great statements of loyalty all of which also carry that same spirit of the Kop. It's what we are. it's who we are. And it's what we should always be.

[Timbo's Goals]

snip

Keep the faith, there's better times ahead.

Up the Reds and roll on Leipzig! 

Many thanks for that Phil lad.

Tells a real tale does that post. A team decimated by injuries.

[MinnyRed]

I know this point has been made before, but I think it's a hugely important contributing factor:

We had 2 and a half seasons straining every sinew to be successful, dragging us from - let's be honest with ourselves - hopeful also-rans, to proper contenders. We reached 2 ECL finals, winning 1, posted the [at the time] third highest league points total, then backing up to have all but won the league by March and ultimately post the second highest points total ever. All this in a system known for being physically challenging. So many games we found ourselves level or even down going into the last quarter and the players seemed to up their determination and effort to pull a goal our two out the fire to get the 3 points.

By March last year, the signs were there that some were running on vapours. The season break seemed at the time to come at the ideal juncture, and we were able to jog down the final straight to the title.

But I do wonder how that break impacted the players mentally. They knew they could stroll home, and they pretty much did, dropping points some games where the players looked like they were struggling to raise energy levels to 100%. This wasn't physical exhaustion.

Most (all?) of us weren't concerned. We'd just ended a 30 year wait, and the players could afford to coast home. They'd be right back up for it come September.

But we looked less convincing in several games, even before the injuries began to mount up. And the games we struggled most with were the ones where the opposition went hell for leather with the press.

I still think the injuries to key players at key times, with the knock-on disruption to the team is the biggest factor in our spells of poor form. But I also think - and Klopp has said as much - that mental exhaustion has played a huge part. And achieving the objective that the players will have given themselves - major silverware - it's entirely understandable that they'd be subconsciously struggling to muster that same effervescence that drove them to 3 seasons of increasing achievement until they reached the peak.

We've seen a similar impact with teams/individuals who have achieved their initial goals, then suffered a dip for a few months/year or so.

For us the effect will be especially pronounced in a year of ridiculous and unprecedented social chaos in the wider country/world, and within the group themselves there is the succession of injuries and terrible VAR decisions that have persistently gone against us.

We've also seen how champions who suffer a slump after great success bounce back, possibly spurred on by the Stark reality of being reminded what being an also-ran feels like.

I'm happy - OK, 'happy' is the wrong word.. 'content' is better - to give these guys this season to regroup, refresh, re-find their hunger to be number 1.

My biggest fear, though, is fallout of the top 4.

We finish trophyless but 4th (ideally 3rd) and I won't be gutted.

Well said. That 3 months wasn’t a “break” at least not for any human. It took a toll on everyone.

I’m at peace with this year. I have no CL expectation (and without fans and playing “away” matches at neutral venues, I’m really not bothered). It’s a write off for a lot of reasons and for a lot of people. Finishing outside the top 4 would gut me. But I have faith in the core of this squad and in Klopp. It sucks right now. But we deal and move forward.

[kavah]

Just wondering, for these over 50s (slightly younger - but not much). Did many start to get on Paisley's back in 81, with how we were doing in the league, before we went to Paris?

No absolutely not. Not at all in the ground or in the pubs or the schoolyard (that was more of my domain). Not when we got knocked out the FA cup - turned over by Flamengo in the world club cup - never, the feeling in Paris was of celebration, just to be in Europe and up with the best. To enjoy seeing a world class team. Even if we didn’t win every week. A bit like now. Enjoy it. These managers and the World class players we have do not grow on trees. We are so lucky compared to Spurs, Newcastle, Sunderland, Everton, Villa. All big clubs that between them have won fuck all for the best part of  30 or 40 years !!

[thisyearisouryear]

My big worry is Salah.

There might be a temptation to cash in on Salah particularly if he pushes for it. Mane Jota and Elliott will need strengthening as an attacking unit if salah goes .

What makes you think Salah is even remotely thinking of pushing for a move??

[nerdster4]

The fact that our deterioration has followed his mate's paper interview and that current results may not entice him to stay

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I can respectfully only refer you specifically to the text of the opening post in this thread as well as many other posts within the thread which strive to explain why the thread has been started at this particular time when we are all suffering with what's going on with the team. Yet many of us know instinctively that during such times the need to stick together and refrain from bemoaning the form of individual players and the team as a whole is at its most heightened albeit perhaps not the easiest thing with which to comply. In the absence of us being in the ground to show our support, joining in with the underlying spirit of a thread such as this and refraining from criticism on these sort of forums is one way in which we can mitigate the absence of real supporters in the ground.

 

Excellent as usual but the bolded bit.
No more needs to be said.

[JRed]

Above all else, we need Jürgen to stay. I don’t think he would want to leave but we don’t know how much of a toll everything is taking on him right now.
Perfect scenario is get some players back fit and win the CL. That would turn a crazy season into a very successful one. It will be very tough with our CB situation but it’s definitely doable.

[killer-heels]

Above all else, we need Jürgen to stay. I don’t think he would want to leave but we don’t know how much of a toll everything is taking on him right now.
Perfect scenario is get some players back fit and win the CL. That would turn a crazy season into a very successful one. It will be very tough with our CB situation but it’s definitely doable.

Even if it ends up a shit season it doesnt need to end dramatically. Come back next season and it will be fine.

[JRed]

Even if it ends up a shit season it doesnt need to end dramatically. Come back next season and it will be fine.

Hopefully so. A fully fit squad would be enough to compete next season, one or two additions to that would be ideal.

[Dubred]

We're a team built on consistency these past few seasons. A tight group of players who largely play in their positions and have their role defined to a tee. And operate as a machine.

It's no surprise how this season has gone when a whole section is ripped out of the machine and other parts try to replicate the missing parts, and in turn then causing disruption to the parts they've shifted from.

We've got talented players. They can paper the cracks somewhat, but the truth outs I guess you could say, then the uncertainty grows amongst the machine, to the point even our largely unchanged forward line is affected.

Bottom line, we can deal with injuries, make incrimental changes. But the sheer destroying of our defence has had a snowball effect on the whole machine.

But as VVD says....who cares? We'll be back

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

We're a team built on consistency these past few seasons. A tight group of players who largely play in their positions and have their role defined to a tee. And operate as a machine.

It's no surprise how this season has gone when a whole section is ripped out of the machine and other parts try to replicate the missing parts, and in turn then causing disruption to the parts they've shifted from.

We've got talented players. They can paper the cracks somewhat, but the truth outs I guess you could say, then the uncertainty grows amongst the machine, to the point even our largely unchanged forward line is affected.

Bottom line, we can deal with injuries, make incrimental changes. But the sheer destroying of our defence has had a snowball effect on the whole machine.

But as VVD says....who cares? We'll be back

I think it has. I also think it's cumulative mental fatigue from going 2.5 seasons of near perfection, plus the threat of having an incredible season snatched away, you can't underestimate the toll that it may have taken.

I think we may have been OK with the above, enough strength to keep going. But the sheer ridiculousness of the bad luck we've had with injuries and reffing has taken its toll on the players too. Some have spoken up about it, and when that happens you can be sure that much much more is said behind closed doors.

All we can do is support and refrain from getting involved with any media nonsense that gets spoken or written.

It's been freakish, but we'll be back and when we are I hope the club has grown a bit more of a backbone and doesn't leave all the protesting to Jurgen.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Strap your nuts in and give this lot and manager all the support they need. If any group of players has earned it in the last 30 years, then it's been undoubtedly this group of players.

[Timbo's Goals]

Strap your nuts in and give this lot and manager all the support they need. If any group of players has earned it in the last 30 years, then it's been undoubtedly this group of players.

Seconded deF mate

 

[kavah]

Strap your nuts in and give this lot and manager all the support they need. If any group of players has earned it in the last 30 years, then it's been undoubtedly this group of players.

Fucking right. These lads have done the lot for us - fucking legends the lot of them

[him_15]

This is the time to show what we fans really could do to support the club.